Nicole:

Hey, friends, I am beyond excited today. I swear I say that every episode but today’s really exciting because one, we’re not having this chat solo. I have brought in someone who I believe is going to give you transformative information. As you know, I have been through it, right? Between becoming a mom of three girls, building a business, going through a divorce, if there’s one thing that you’ve heard me say in my Fresh Start Manual in talking about pivots, it’s that there is so much value in understanding communication, building the right team and community around you and making sure that people in your world are supportive and collaborative.

If you have already pre ordered by book, Nothing is Missing, which is available now on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, and will be on shelves everywhere, October 10, can’t even believe it. You know that I’ve dealt with a million different transitions. And I’ve really been diving deep into what it looks like to have the right people around me, and how to leverage them and how to build an ongoing community. And I hear from so many of you that, you know, in parenting and motherhood and being a business owner, you can feel so alone. And that is why I tapped my good friend, Dr. Tamara Hamai, who is just revolutionary in her concepts and the fact that she’s put them into practice. Now you know how I feel about bringing people in front of you who are talking the talk, but have never walked the walk. And what’s brilliant is when it comes to you know, the boring stuff, the data and the analytics and numbers, she’s done it.

But when it comes to the get your hands dirty, put it into practice, can my concepts around building and alliances actually work? She’s done that too. So Tamara, thank you so much for being here.

Tamara:

Thanks for having me. I’m excited.

Nicole:
You’re excited? I’m excited. Because, you know, I’m always I don’t always have people here for chats, right. And the reason I don’t is because you know, one, I’m really particular about who I bring around my friends, you know, and two, you know, just in this season of my life, you know, leading up to what we’re talking about here, I care a lot about who was speaking into me.

And when we met and I heard about sort of where you started, where you worked, how you started formulating these ideas around the way people interact, and how that can help them reach their goals and what they need around them. I was like, oh, this is valuable. And I cannot believe people aren’t looking at it this way. So I know that sounds like a super teaser, y’all. First tell us a little bit about yourself, what do you do now? Who do you work with, and then we’ll go into how you got there.

Tamara:

Right now I run a company called Hamai Consulting, and we work with organizations to help them make a more sustainable impact in the world. Especially if they’re serving children and families. My background is in child development. And so that’s kind of my passion and direction. But really, we work with organizations that do everything from fiscal governance, to health, to lots of different things,

Nicole:

All the things and when I tell you this work that you do, I have a lot of friends who are who are listening that are educators that are moms, I mean, it is always at our heart whenever we know someone has committed themselves to the good work, right. But on top of that, everyone listening understands how difficult that work is. And right now I’m literally telling you, whether they are on their couch, in their car, in their kitchen, handling the babies, they are nodding their heads like listen, Nicole, okay, these people drive me crazy. And you’re I mean, you’ll be the first to say it you guys can’t see. But Dr. Tamaras over here literally nodding her head like girl. Like it’s so real, you know. And one of the biggest things they run into just transparently because you’ve been doing this a long time is the we’ve always done this this way. And we don’t want to change. And we already know you know how to do it just this obstinance with doing things that gets in the way of helping the kids.

So I want to ask you, did you run into that early on? Because you didn’t start off running your own business, you did this for a reason. So take us through that transition.

Tamara:

Yeah, I guess my my birth story also call in. I was working for LA county government. And I had landed my dream job. It was a community action researcher, which meant that I was working with community organizing groups throughout LA County to help them use research as a tool to create change in their communities.

Nicole:

So like not just making it up, but let’s take data that’s actually going to help the kids.

Tamara:

Yes, take the data to move the exit off the freeway like to make some others no asthma at the schools.

Nicole:
It’s just like really simple. Like the science is supporting the decision. It’s not just whatever the guy who got the job because his dad said, wants to spend the budget that way. Exactly. We love you. And we love that role.

Tamara:

So I was driving around the whole county, helping out these different community organizing groups. And one day, my boss called me into the office. And I mean, I did not work a few hours, I worked a lot in this role. So I was, you know, already pulling like 70-80 hour weeks, and my boss calls me in my office and says, I need you to drop everything you’re working on and work on this scorecard. It literally was just a report full of numbers about children.

Nicole:
So just let me stand in this minute moment with you for a minute because I think that anyone who’s ever worked in corporate or frankly, honestly, even if you’re a mom, you’re living your life, everything’s fine. The kids come home and say, I have a project and it’s due tomorrow. Now it’s one thing if it is relevant, makes sense, sensible work, we can understand or unexpected.

But in this situation, you have a full docket of work. And your boss came in and said, I don’t care. Do this instead.

Tamara:

Yeah. And to create something that was just going to be, it was actually going to be printed at that time. So a piece of paper that sat on someone’s bookshelf, not.

Nicole:
So there’s no purpose behind it, there was no, how did that make you feel? Because I think we’ve all been in that place. And it’d be really validating to hear how did that make you feel?

Tamara:

I mean, angry was the first thing.

Nicole:
Right, right. Right, right.

Tamara:

Because there was important work happening in the communities that I was going to not be able to work on. And when I said, Okay, how long are we talking here? This is a four to six week project, said, Okay, well, let me call, the organizers I’m working with, these are all relationships that I was using day to day for them do the work, and let them know that I’m just going to be having to step away for this period of time for this specific project. And make sure there isn’t anything they need from me before I step away. And my boss said, No, you cannot contact them.

Nicole:

So essentially, you are told to ghost your entire team, all your relationships, everyone you’d worked with before, just to pivot on a whim for something that let’s just be fair, likely wasn’t even as helpful as the work that you were doing.

Tamara:

Exactly. I mean, it’s hilarious to me in this moment that you get it instantly, right?

Nicole:
And I’m like, I don’t even do your job. And I know that ghosting is bad. Okay, like that is like the basic. So I think we all can relate to this right being pulled in a different direction for something that does not feel like it pertains to where we need to be, or is what we want to do. So what’s interesting is, and I’m hoping all of you are hearing that we all have these pivotal moments in our life, where in the moment, they might just make us angry, or in the moment, we’re kinda like, why is this happening? But they can be the turning point for everything. I had a moment like this before my divorce. I had a moment like this before I quit my job. I had a moment like this before I got my girls, you know, and my book talks about these moments. But I want to hear about what happened after this for you. Because you’re enraged. Tell me you flipped a table, through the scorecard in his face, and you marched out of there? Like I want to hear some drama. You’re classy sort, so… <laughs>

Tamara:

it wasn’t quite that dramatic. But I did break into tears. Oh, yeah. And this was only my second time ever crying at work.

Nicole:

People y’all don’t know. But Dr. Tamra is not like this. Like she’s a very, like put together like professional like, because you get a lot of mess thrown at you and your current work. I mean, literally, you’re a mess cleaner upper. That’s like what happens, they bring you in saying our organization is a disaster and we don’t work together. And we have a goal and you fix it. So the idea that someone pushed you to tears in the workplace which raise hand relate, relate, relate. It says a lot. So what did you do?

Tamara:

I quit. Actually think it was the next morning I came in before I knew the HR director came in early. And so I got in before everyone else and I quit to the HR director on the spot. And it really was a realization for me that, so while I had dedicated what my career up to that point, to what I thought were these organizations that were dedicated to children’s wellbeing dedicated to social welfare, that really, as people who choose social good, we’re lost. We don’t actually know or aren’t actually doing the things that are going to create the impact we seek in the world.

Nicole:
And there’s because we’re spending our time with bureaucracy, paperwork, power play, and it’s getting away from actually getting the work done. And so for you, this pivotal moment wasn’t just that I think this is a great call out that you’re making. It wasn’t just because they weren’t being nice and disrespectful to you, that was a byproduct of the bigger problem, which is if I continue to work here, I’m not doing the good that matters.

Tamara:

Exactly. That is not the way that we should be operating in the world. I knew it was against just my moral fiber. We got into this kind of work and I think a lot of people have an intent to have good in the world. And yeah, create a good impact in the world. But we’re not actually then living that out. Or we say that we are, I mean, a lot of these nonprofits, philanthropists, social entrepreneurs, right, are doing a lot of action. But are they truly yielding the change and impact are they actually showing up and serving in the way that they should be to have a sustainable impact over time?

Nicole:

Oh, this is so good. And it ties into where you are now. So you know, in this massive pivot moment, you created what needed to be a fresh start for yourself, because realistically, still got to earn income still have to you know, but you were kind of it was push or shove. It was I cannot continue to do this, because it is going against my core, girl, I relate, I talk about it in the book, I quit my job when I realized, I work in health care, and I’m not actually helping anyone be healthy, I gotta go, you know, so. So I get that. And it’s interesting, because I also think, you know, for the models listening for those of you are nurses, educators, social workers, people do not understand that when you’re in these types of massively service-driven roles. You didn’t choose them from the beginning to be rich. You chose them from the beginning to help and deserve.

So a lot of people are feeling that pull in that tug and I like that you’ve just distinguished for us that, you know, it’s not just because our boss was mean to us that day, if we’re feeling that tug, we may need to change. So let’s talk about change. Right, let’s talk about what that means. You took a lot of what you learned from this experience, when you started forming your consulting firm, which now has been around for gosh, how long have you been in this? 15 years?

Tamara:

Yeah, since three days after that quit.

Nicole:
Wow, wow.

Tamara:
So that was in 2008.

Nicole:

Oh, my gosh, okay, so. So you opened up, and you knew that you had to do something. But you also knew you didn’t really know what it looks so different now than it did then. So let’s talk about some of the ideas. Because where this is going, obviously, is I apply these ideas that my family, my business, or they really have helped me have the right people around me. So the core of your business that you do now and what you do when you’re supporting organizations, is really helping them understand each other, at least that’s how it seems to me, but you tell me more about it in your words.

Tamara:

Well, the first thing we do is help to bring together an alliance of people within their organization, or including people outside of the organization, to form a decision making body, people to actually think and generate together so that they can tackle together rather than alone, this concept or this challenge of becoming a more impactful organization.

Nicole:

So this is a big deal. Because you see this in business, I think that, you know, everyone does this, like with their girl squads, you know, it’s in business, it might be a mastermind in your group of girlfriends, it is that little sort of my girl squad that we travel with, I have those things, you know, in your family, it might be that I always go to this certain auntie and this grandmother. So you’re saying that you replicate what may occur, I guess naturally in the workplace.

Now, what are the components of what would be an alliance if we need to build one for ourselves? What are the core things?

Tamara:

So one of the things that actually we do, sort of inherently in our normal lives that we challenge to a certain degree, is normally we seek out people we’re comfortable with for support.

Nicole:

Oh, really? You mean we try to go to safe spaces when people are just gonna nod and say yes, you look pretty and oh, my gosh, you look thin today.

Tamara:
Exactly.

Nicole:

We don’t look for people who challenge us, by nature.

Tamara:
We also don’t know a lot of people who are different than us.

Nicole:

That’s actually a really great call out I, you know, transparently a lot of times when I look at people’s photos on social, I’m like, wow, you know, even though I’m your friend or I know that you may have like black friends or friends that are differently abled, or you even live in a neighborhood that is a very diverse neighborhood, I noticed that your wedding, everyone looked like you, you know, and a lot of times people don’t realize that. So that is such a good call out. Part of why we need to build this alliance, you know, in our lives in our businesses is because we need a diverse perspective.

Tamara:

In organizations usually decisions are made by people in positions of power, which means that only managers or only leaders are in these decision-making conversations. Where as we create alliances that have people in different roles with different power levels, different lived experiences, so we really encourage actually participants in services to be part of alliances, even though they don’t work for the organization, or we pay them for their time. Sure, but having a wide range of diverse experiences, diverse perspectives, that’s one of the critical pieces to actually building alliances.

Nicole:

It’s so good. So, I mean, because I’ve scary, I’m not gonna lie to you like the idea that I’m writing a book or I’m doing anything that is personal to me, I mean, it’s funny, because I’m about to say the thing that basically proves you right, which is, I don’t necessarily want to hear that it’s not great. I don’t want to necessarily hear like, I love the feedback for growth. But you know, it’s nerve racking to kind of put your thing in front of people and hear back. So you’re saying that by nature, people don’t.

Tamara:

They don’t. You don’t want just a naysayer, though, right? Like, the devil needs no advocate.

Nicole:
Yes, ain’t that the truth.

Tamara:

So when we are talking about challenge, it’s important that you’re bringing an alliance together, that is wanting to actually be supportive, even though they will challenge you. So it is safety and challenge at the same time. Otherwise, you’re going to be defensive, or you’re going to be shut down.

Nicole:

This is actually really valuable. Because, you know, obviously, I’m a mom of three. And we’ve been through a lot of transitions. And you know, my kids have a new step, you know, parent, and being in our home, one of the things that’s really big that we do is we make decisions kind of collectively. And that’s something that people always called out and said, this is unusual, that you know, because people ask me like, oh, well, what sports are is your is your daughter doing this year? And I’ll say, Oh, well, I don’t know. I have to ask her.

And they’re like, Oh, you’re not just picking like tennis, all the kids out here do tennis. Oh, you’re not just doing soccer. All the kids do soccer? And I’m like, what if she doesn’t want to? I have to ask her, you know, or, for instance, I have a book tour coming up, you know, and I’d love for her to come with me, you know, and as her mom, I definitely have the like, you mentioned power to say you are coming with me, but what if she doesn’t want to what if she wants to be home? What if she, you know, like, there, I realized there are a lot of decisions that we’re making but it’s easy for me because she’s part of those decisions.

You’re saying that and let me just kind of I’m trying to have a hypothetical, like in a family structure, applying your alliance model. I may ask, say like an older sibling of hers. What are your thoughts on her coming with me on this tour based on your experiences? Because there may be something you see that I don’t see.

Tamara:

Yeah, so you could ask. So the parent first sure my if there’s another caretaker or other adults in the household, talk to them. Other people who know that child, or are invested in the success of that child or the child themself, the older and even potentially younger sibling, depending on how young, if they can speak.

Nicole:
Yeah sure.

Tamara: 

Teachers, other experts. Also, there are times specifically when the decision requires some expertise.

Nicole:

Right, like picking a private school or therapy sessions or trying to rectify something that could be a problem like anxiety or okay.

Tamara:

So asking a therapist or asking a school counselor or something where you can get some sort of expert, objective information from an expert, but then filter it through values, experience, those lenses with these other people.

Nicole:
So using the same example, what are some of the potential outcomes? If I were to engage in this probably because it never would have occurred to me if I’m asking something of my middle daughter, you know, to say about my little one, how do you feel about the fact that Chrissy is staying in Atlanta, living at college? To me, it’s like, this is what’s happening, you know, like, and I say, this kind of, you know, putting myself out here as a mama, you know, this is what’s happening. My little ones 11, she’s fine. She’s with me, you know, but she may have thoughts, she might say, you know, what, I don’t like my sister being so far away.

And then I guess now I have perspective on what could have been a problem, I guess, like, tell me about what you’re finding when people start applying the Alliance method to you know, and they’re building alliances around their decision making.

Tamara:

So first we set what decision we’re trying to make.

Nicole:
Right? So should Chrissy stay in college? Are we okay with that? Should we move to California? Let’s say that’s the question.

Tamara:

Yes. So if that’s the decision you all want to make. Then you’ve formed this alliance. So you identify the people who are supportive of that goal, have important contributions to that goal, have different perspectives on that goal.

Nicole:
I hope y’all are writing this down. This is like, top tier stuff, like I really hope you read that and you’ll you’ll give us access your show notes, links, all that stuff, so that you can use and apply this in your business like team building is one of the hardest things to do. This is gold, so keep going. So anyone who’s supportive, we kind of get those people online and we’re clear about what the goal is.

Tamara:

Then we want to look at the context. So look at any data or research that might be relevant. So with going away to college research that might be relevant might be about I’m sure that there’s something about parents and separation from your children at that age.

Nicole:

Yeah, support systems, you know, picking her major, but even like logistics, right? Like, how much will it cost? Or, you know, does she have a boyfriend, or network there? What does that look like?

Tamara:

And there’s definitely research about the impact that transitions have on children. And those sorts of sets, you look at what research is there, what are the things that are important to pay attention to the things that we actually need to consider.

Nicole:

So that’s good, so it’s not going from our I mean, then it kind of takes it away from our gut, because as a mama, I’m like, tou go stay up underneath me, you don’t need to go anywhere. My data says you my baby stay in my house. But that may not be the best way to go I’m hearing. So if I look at research, it can give me sort of an outside perspective that might be better suited to sort of informing our decision. Ah, I’m using Alliance language. Okay, so great. Okay, so perfect. Then once we’ve collected that information, now what?

Tamara:

You review that information with the other people in your alliance.

Nicole:
So not by myself, so we’re all using the same info, okay.

Tamara:

And then I like to call it dreaming, where each person actually dreams of what the best possible future looks like.

Nicole:
So we dropped putting parameters around it, because it’s streaming. It’s like, what does this look like? So I’d be able to say like, for instance, my you know, Chrissy, because she’s 21, might say, Yeah, I think I want to say in Georgia, and the perfect scenarios we have in my own place, and maybe buying a house or whatever. And I can say, look, perfect situation would be that you lived in California, and that you were down the street and you bought a house here. And are we saying this, like you said safely, right, knowing that none of these things has to happen. But we’re just putting it out there.

Tamara:

Yeah. So we start with the unbridled dreams, okay. And I actually encourage people to tap into the creative modes. So whatever is their most comfortable creative expression. So whether it’s drawing or Lego or writing.

Nicole:
Oh, that’s brilliant.

Tamara:
So that it just comes out a little more deeply. Okay, and think about what does it taste like? What does it smell like? What do I say? What do I hear?

Nicole:
So having a little one, maybe draw a picture of what does the family look like, if Chris he’s at college or something like that? That’s really powerful. Because I think a lot of times when we hear about, I’m just being really transparent. When I hear about systems and processes that are fancy from doctors, I’m like, this is gonna be work yesterday, me and like, and I want to do these things. I feel like a good mom if I do these things, but I also want to make sure that they’re actually doable, particularly with the littles, you know, so this, that’s really, really helpful.

Tamara:

Yes, and then each person shares their expression, their dream with the rest of the people. So whether it’s a little mini presentation, you can have as a practice, or just a casual, like holding up whatever has been created and talking through what it’s showing. That’s how you get at, what does that blue squiggle mean?

Nicole:

So you want to foster conversation? Exactly. It’s not a sale, per se. It’s just more ah, like you said, a share. I love that. And then I guess I want to know, and I’m sure everyone’s thinking this, and this is hard to get to but how do you actually make the call? Like, it sounds like all of this sounds good and beautiful. But how do we make the decision?

Tamara:

So you start by looking at what’s in common across all your dreams, and choosing together what you’re actually going to implement. So how are you going to make it real?

Nicole:
That’s so good.

Tamara:

So if you haven’t a set of action steps that you have created to create just the pieces of your dreams that you have prioritized together. Then you have next steps and that guides whatever that decision is for that time. But no decision is final.

Nicole:

Yeah, no, that’s so good. It’s also really powerful to realize that, especially when you have a family that might have a tough time making decisions, you know, or that it’s a struggle. If we start from a place of looking for similarities, you’re not feeling like your ideas being put down, or you’re not feeling like you’re not being heard, because we’re starting from a place of pulling from, well, it sounds like I mean, heck, even for dinner, you know, it sounds like we all want to eat tonight, which is great. And it sounds like none of us wants Chinese food. Wonderful, you know, like, and it sounds like everyone’s open to, I mean, you said pasta, you said macaroni you said pizza, maybe Italian is the move. You know, like I really liked this idea that if we give everyone the floor to present their ideas, and we’re all invested in the outcome and we find similarities, then we like each other during this process. This is how you’re getting boardrooms to get along.

Tamara:

Yes. Sometimes you share things that you know are dreams, but you also know it’s not important to make real. So you can voice it and then let it go and be okay with whatever the priority ends up being.

Nicole:

And you still learn about each other. You know, I know I love to hear from my kids, like, if I’m hearing Oh yeah, well, one day I would love. So for instance, if Chrissy said, Yeah, I want to say in Atlanta, but she voices as a dream, but I would love to live in California, if I knew it was cost efficient or whatever, that’s something I can still hold and say, Wow, this could be a possibility to revisit later. So it is good to encourage them to dream big.

Tamara:

Yes. And the discussion oftentimes uncovers the why you actually think deeper. So when you talk about your dream, usually what comes up is not that you actually want her to live in California with you, right? It’s actually that type of emotional connection, you want to have.

Nicole:
100%.

Tamara:
Types of interactions and so then when you’re discussing as a group, you’re able to generate ways of generating that same type of connection in a different way.

Nicole:
That’s brilliant. So I will be totally transparent here and use myself as an example. When this was long before she had a boyfriend, because lord knows that made it easier for her to leave me. But before she had a boyfriend, when she said to me, I’m really nervous about, you know, being at school and being away from you. And I asked her why, you know, you’ll be fine, you know, you’ll live fine by yourself, you know, all of this. She said, Why don’t want us to not be as close as we are. And it never occurred to me, that that was even something, because we hang like, that is my girl, like, I love her so much. And we like each other too.

And so I was like, that’s not going to be an issue. You know, like, we can still have hangout time, we can still take solo trips, we’re going to hang out, we’ll just look different from the way it did before because you’re getting older. And I think that it was so difficult, but I think that that confirmation really helped you know, her and so that’s really valuable is that knowing that maybe there’s other stuff to uncover. I mean, you know, as obviously, you know, you’re a doctor and child development, there may be things that need uncovered. That’s so good.

Tamara:

Yeah, it’s usually the things that are unsaid that cause issues, especially when it comes to decisions, after the decision is made. So if you can bring to surface things that are going to be potential challenges that are going to be hard about decisions after they’re made, if people have already had a voice to start to bring those up, then it’s much more likely that you’re going to have plans to talk about and deal with those issues later.

Nicole:

Oh, brilliant.

Tamara:

So after you make the decision, really, the final step is to set the time of when you’re going to review whether that was, like how the decision is going.

Nicole:
Oh, that’s so good. That’s so good. That’s so good. When I tell you how often people think you make the decision, you’re done. I mean, you’ve got to run into that all the time all the time. And and reviewing is actually the final part of the process. And can you tell us more about why like, what am I looking for? What is the value of reviewing?

Tamara:

So if you know what success looks like, then you can look later to see if it was successful. But if you don’t think about what success of a decision looks like beforehand, then even if you did review later, you wouldn’t even know what you’re looking for.

Nicole:
That’s so good.

Tamara:

And if you make a decision, there’s going to be consequences. And if you have a time and you have the expectation that you’re going to get back together with your alliance, review where things are…

Nicole:
Oh wait a second, so you’re saying put this on the calendar!

Tamara:

Yes.

Nicole:
So so guilty, guilty, guilty. So you’re saying that, like I should end it like as part of the decision making process, while we’re still deciding, say, Okay, no matter what we’ve decided on this, we’ll come back in 90 days. So even though we’re doing we can all do this for at least a little amount of time knowing that we’re going to come back and talk about how it’s going and how it feels.

Tamara:
Yes.

Nicole:
That is like, I’m not kidding. That may be, I may even call this episode, the one mom tool, okay, that you are not doing that will transform your life because there’s something to be said for telling your kids. The decision is temporary. So we do an after school program for our little one. And she historically has not loved after school programs, but based on time, it’s good. I mean, these kids get out of school at like two o’clock. Mom is still working, you know what I mean? It’s the middle of the day. So you know, we found a program she likes well enough, but she still prefer to be home. And so I told her, You know what, you’re getting older. Let’s do this, at least until December. And in December, we will review this you know, but let’s not argue between now and December, because we decided this is what’s happening. And then in December, we’ll talk about how it’s going and maybe we’ll change it. It never occurred to me. I could do this anywhere. Like, we’re gonna do bedtime, but let’s do it till 7:30. And if you can do that consistently, then we’ll bump it to 7:45, listen. Dr. Tamara, you changed my life right now. Like I’m not kidding. Every mom right now is like wait a minute, hold on clutch, this is fire.

So last part of the decision making process is to review the decision and put time on the calendar for when you’re going to do it in advance.

Tamara:

Yes. Take a genuine look. In organizations we say about quarterly sometimes if things are really moving fast monthly, but most organizations, this quarterly is enough, to look at what’s happened since what’s going well, what’s not going as planned what’s emerged that we weren’t expecting so that you can either totally pivot, or you can shift course. And it’s about refining that decision and how it’s being implemented.

Nicole:

And getting ahead of the problems. I mean, like, honestly, if I’m doing that every 90 days, I noticed you didn’t say six months, you didn’t say a year. You know, I’m not letting it go so far. So I have a huge problem. This is brilliant. So I know there’s so many nuances. I know, there’s so many pieces here. I am intrigued. I cannot wait for all your stuff. Where can I learn more about building my own alliance, using these alliances strategies in my business and my family? I mean, heck, I see how I can use this with my man. This is good stuff. Where can we learn more?

Tamara:

How you could start by going to FormanAlliance.com.

Nicole:

Okay, and what will I find there? I find like all the stuff we talked about here, but I needed on a pronoun, because I you know, every family’s got decisions every day. And they can start using this to turn their family into an alliance and tap their resources around them. In addition to in our businesses, like, all that stuff, is there at formanalliance.com.

Tamara:

Yep, you’ll be able to download a guide that shows you who to have and who not to have in your alliance.

Nicole:

Ain’t that the truth? That’s also a thing. So y’all, I will have that in the show notes. Dr. Tamara Hamai, I thank you so much for being here for sharing this brilliant concept for giving me some real aha moments. And again, all your details will be in the show notes. We’re all going to follow you, keep up and build alliances of our own. Thank you so much.

Tamara:

Thank you.