Nicole:

Hey friends, I am thrilled to welcome you to the new season of The Nicole Walters Podcast. And as I mentioned before, all of our chats are going to be about moving forward boldly. And I know you’re going to hear all these new year, new you things in the next coming weeks and I want to let you know that we’re starting now.

Why don’t we have to wait for a magical marker of time in order to be our best selves and move forward and get the things we want and live the life that we deserve?

And I gotta tell you, after the journey that we’ve had over the past year, with starting over fresh starts, and talking about the learnings that are allowing us to move boldly, it’s time for us to actually do it.

This chat that we’re about to have is about the true American dream. So friends, you may or may not know, but I am the child of African immigrants. My parents were both born in Ghana, West Africa. My mother in a seaside town, that was city like, if you will, if you’re familiar, it’s called El Mina. And it My father was born in Wasa ecoupon, which is a village up north and you know, I jokingly call it a Discovery Channel village, because the depictions of Africa always are fairly consistent, you know, online and inaccurate often, but truly he grew up in a dirt floor, you know, small home, you know, that some what might refer to as a shack. And really didn’t have anything, no running water, no electricity. And he grew up very humbly, and both of my parents actually met when they came to the United States and my mother was 18. And my father was, I believe, 24. And they met here, you know, because they came here for better options and a better life.

And what’s interesting is that, I often think about what the American Dream probably meant to them. And whether or not you are the child of an immigrant, or you’re an immigrant yourself, or your first generation, and you’re born here like me, but you know, grew up in an immigrant household, or if you’re someone who just grew up with old school parents, or southern parents, or parents who, you know, had big dreams for you and had to work hard for them, we all know what it’s like to have a vision of what we think our life should be.

And in the spirit of, you know, this new season and speaking boldly, it kind of sucks right now. Like, everything is expensive, mortgage rates are out of control, for those of us who have gone through transitions our life, you know, like me with divorce or, you know, you with, you know, having a new baby or layoffs or you know, financial things, everything feels like it’s harder to do, and dreams feel like they’re harder to reach. Sometimes it feels a little scary to even make them and I don’t know about you, but there are parts of me that worry about what it looks like for my kids. And, you know, wanting to grow my family, what it looks like for my kids in the future. And honestly, what it looks like for me, you know, I’d love to, you know, buy a fancy pants home here in LA akin to the one that I used to have when I was, you know, in my previous marriage. And I have a great home now really, like God is very good, I’m cared for but it’s not like, you know, ritzy ditzy or anything like that, you know, and that’s fine. But when I tell you the idea of spending millions, which is what it costs to live in a home that’s actually fairly reasonable out here in LA, just doesn’t seem reasonable.

I have friends who are raising whole families in one bedroom apartments. And having grown up like that, myself, I know that it is possible to still have so much love and to achieve so much and accomplish so much. So there’s no shame in being someone who doesn’t have much but gosh, where’s the space to dream? Where’s the space to dream and I don’t know about you. But the dream that was sold to me growing up was that the American dream was a house and it was a dog, probably a golden retriever, you know, 2.5 kids getting a good corporate job, you know, that pays you a reasonable salary that allows you to take some vacations, have a savings account, you know, if anything comes up you’re able to pay for it. To have a reasonable late model car, you know, that doesn’t break down all the time you’ll get your kids into after school activities, and then know that you can retire at a reasonable age probably somewhere in your early 60s with a cute retirement party and you know, be able to move to Florida. Does that sound familiar? 

I don’t know if it’s just my old millennial self, but that’s what I thought life was supposed to give and it’s almost become a running joke amongst my girls, you know, who are 20, my older ones 21 and 24 that like, they don’t even know if they want to get married, definitely don’t know if they want to have kids, if it’s not a flat no, and they never expect to have a home. And I don’t know about you, but that jaded existence, you know, of saying that, what is the point of our living right now is heartbreaking. And I try not to get caught up in it because and y’all know, because we talk about it here, you know, we really want to be people who are able to feel like we have some control over our future.

What I want to speak to here is this idea that what we always have control over is how we want to design our dreams. Because this classic American Dream concept, I don’t know if it ever really existed. Because that dream concept is rooted so heavily in money. And as someone who has had it, has lost it, has grown up with none of it and then had so much of it, and then had a lot less of it. Right? Like I mean, I’ve really been at all the stages. And I gotta tell you, the American Dream is really just about options. It’s about having choices. And that’s where we start really feeling like our life is beyond us.

Do we have a choice around when we can have more kids? Or if we can afford more kids? Do we have a choice around the neighborhood we can live in? Do we have a choice around what type of car we want to drive? Do we have a choice of, you know, if we want to stay in a certain employment or not, do we have a choice around what sort of cancer treatments we want to select for our child if they’re on the table, because we’re not limited, you know, by the financial aspects, and we have access to that information.

And what I want to empower you with because this is something that I’ve really had to embrace is that choices only come when you’re willing to make bold decisions. If you want to have more choices, you have to be willing to get uncomfortable.

It’s so interesting because the mindset around not having options is a learned one. And as women, as marginalized people, we are constantly told that we have less options than we actually do. And that is a form of control. People want to feed us our choices so we select things that suit them. And I grew up seeing this in my home, because whenever my mom had company coming over, which was infrequent. I think that the idea of having people in our home gave her so much anxiety because our home was small. It wasn’t really well decorated, well appointed, we just weren’t wealthy, we just didn’t have we didn’t even have enough seating to really have company there, we had a couch and a chair, you know, and sometimes we could pull around extra dining room chairs if we needed seating, but it just, you know, it’s a small apartment. And whenever we’re having people over, I remember it being an event. And I always knew if someone was coming over and it didn’t even have to be anyone fancy. It could be like one of my dad’s friends or, you know, a couple of times, he may have had like teachers come over. Or, heck, it could have been the landlord popping by to collect a check, you know, whoever it was, the routine was the same. I’d wake up to the sound of the vacuum cleaner running as my mom made and attempted to, you know, catch any types of hair or dander or whatever it was, in our fairly stained old carpet around our apartment. And that I’d hear all the dishes going at the same time that I would hear ladles hitting the side of, you know, the pots of the pans on the stove because my mom was cooking a full like three course meal. I’d see her pull out trays, you know, from cabinets, and I would hear all the rustling and jostling and she was pulling these trays out and she would start pouring an assortment of chips and nuts and all sorts of different snack items that had a very distinctly Ghanaian, African flair to it. But you know, we’re pretty good noshables, you know, that we could have there and should always slice some oranges. And then, you know, pull out an assortment of beverages, ginger ale was always on the docket, she might offer a beer two, which I always felt was kind of weird, because I didn’t realize that not everybody drinks. I mean, but, you know, in Ghana, that’s really, it’s actually kind of considered elegant to always offer someone, you know, an alcoholic beverage, you know, that’s kind of a sign of, you know, wealth and doing a little bit nicer things.

Whereas in America, you know, it’s kind of what do you want to drink, you know, water was never on the menu, almost he asked for it specifically. And what would always happen is she would start, you know, pretty early in the morning trying to get the house together, if you will. And by the time the person finally arrived, she was wiped out. She was already tired. And one of the things I always thought was odd about that was people coming over is supposed to be a joyful celebration, right? The best part is when the doorbell rings. And we know we’re about to get to the fun. But the feeling I always had and I could detect on my own mother was that she felt like her options and her performance came before the joy even arrived. It was do all the work and then by the time we’d reached the moment where we should be celebrating or enjoying the company or creating a memory, she was exhausted. She was exhausted, she was miserable. And I can even sense an anxious dread coming over her that she would now have to engage. And she did great either way. You know, I remember my mom always being you know, smiley, and you know, but she never really had much to say. And I always found that to be odd, you know, because when I would see my mom in her most comfortable moments around friends or, you know, at larger parties where there really wasn’t a place for her to stand so she just had to have a good time, she was loquacious. She was dancing, she would have a drink in her hand, she was having a good old time. So I knew she had it in her but yet in her own home, she didn’t even know how to embrace the option of peace.

And it’s not lost on me that I witnessed this happen a couple times a year throughout my life in our small apartment. And when I reflect on my own behaviors, around feeling like I had limited options in my home outside of keeping it tidy, keeping it organized, cooking for the people there and keeping my family entertained. I realized that I was raised to think that service was my biggest value add to the people around me. And couple that with being a Christian, being a woman, being a black woman, you can understand how it’s very easy to feel like our biggest gift to the world is productivity. And you can also see how you lose your options when you only embrace the ones that you are told.

And being transparent, in my previous life and my previous marriage in the way that I was living and doing my business before, I felt so trapped, increasingly trapped every day. And I know that’s hard to believe because I was living a life that people would dream for. I flew on private jets. Again, I had that incredible home, I had staff. There wasn’t anything I couldn’t buy, right. So they’re in, I was living the American dream, right rags to riches, you know, an immigrant child who now has all these things. But I was so damn lonely. Like, and I felt trapped. I felt like I could not, I remember that I would stay up late at night, after everyone went to bed to just get like a moment of peace.

And what do I mean by that moment of peace, I mean, quiet where no one was asking me for anything, a moment where I felt like I didn’t have to entertain or help anyone. And I’ll go into that in a second. A moment where I felt like I didn’t have to check email, I didn’t have to watch a show that was like a family show, kind of a show that I wanted to watch. And I’m saying all of this knowing that if you’re listening as you know, a mama or a sister or you know, even a single girl, you’re hearing and knowing what I’m talking about, right? Just having that moment to myself for myself but then also realizing that I felt like I didn’t get enough of that time. And I didn’t quite know how to shift it.

And it wasn’t until sort of the final years of my marriage that I realized that I did know how to shift it, I just didn’t want to. I didn’t want to have to do the thing that I knew would be required to get more choices, to have more options. Oh I feel teary just thinking about it because I remember the discomfort of sitting in that place.

So I was sitting on my gorgeous blue velvet couch. You know if you ever watch my show, you’ve seen it, you know? And I loved this couch, it was custom designed. It was super comfy and it was beautiful and it trapped all my dog hair on it. You know and I’d cozy up on this couch at night and I’d watch you know a show and I’d be watching this like Bridgerton, or something, you know, and all I could think about was, tomorrow, I have to wake up and go to work, you know, and tomorrow I’m back at the routine, and boy am I really blessed like, I would literally look around my house sometimes in awe, because I grew up with nothing. I slept on a couch, you know, until I was 12 in poverty but here I am dozing off on a couch, wealthy, and still feeling trapped. Like, I don’t like my options, or this isn’t the life that I selected for myself.

And a lot of that had to do with the lack of love that I felt in my home. And when I say love, I don’t even mean just romantic or partner related love, I mean, a lack of understanding and appreciation and worth, which, you know, some of that is my own job, you know, but also, just generally feeling like my life is going to keep repeating itself in the same format over and over and over again, until I decided to move and make something different happen.

And so I was thinking before I decided to come here and chat with you today, how many times have you sat there and known and said to yourself, I need to quit this job. I need to quit this marriage. I need to quit this friendship. I need to leave this thing because I cannot remain here. Like there’s parts of me that are dying off. You know, there are things that I know that are better somewhere else. If anything, sometimes it’s not even about the quitting or the leaving of where you are, so much as honoring the call of where you’re supposed to be. And when I tell you for years, in repeating the same cycle of seeking that moment of peace in the evening, I would spend so many of those hours sitting there saying to myself, I’m not happy. And I’m exhausted, and there’s so much good in my life, and there’s so much joy, but I need to leave, like I need to not be here. I need to pursue peace, you know, and better balance, you know, around the joy in my life.

And what that looks like is a divorce, you know, that I need to be able to boldly say yes to myself. And not in a selfish way I think a lot of times when people hear that, and they say, Well, if one of the options that you’re seeking is more of you, that’s not okay. And on many levels in our society right now, there is a lot of selfishness, there’s a lot of self-centeredness. But I’m talking about the saying yes to yourself so that you can say yes to others. I needed to create more breathing room for me, so that I could keep serving in the capacity that I was serving.

And I was so scared. And I know that for those of you who tune in every single week, and we have these chats, and for those of you who have read the book, you know that chapter one of my book is all about how the American dream is about options. And how I came to learn that after watching my mother suffer. And I want you to know that if you’re sitting there saying to yourself, I feel like my American dream is slipping through my fingers and all I want are more options. I just want more choices, whether it’s around work or around my partners who I’m with in a relationship or around my friendships or where I live or whatever else, I have to let you know, I watched my parents suffer. And I remember thinking, why aren’t they choosing differently.

And in the book, I tell some stories of, you know, things that I could see my mother saying no to every single day that she didn’t have to but, you know, one thing I don’t share is that my mom is the type of woman who literally would set herself on fire to keep people warm. I mean, she would go to parties she was invited to and spend her entire time on her feet, serving and helping and cleaning and tidying up and, you know, chasing after kids and you know, cracking jokes and serving drinks. I mean, she just spent her whole time working. Even in an environment she was invited to in order to have rest. The only option she saw for herself was work. The only option she saw for herself was people pleasing. And the thing that I’m constantly reflecting on is that we all have options, and it’s what are we choosing to engage in. Because a lot of us focus on the fact that we may not feel like we have the option that we deserve, which in this American dream for me it would be an option of lower mortgage rates, better down payment options, right. But realistically, you know, I do still have options who says I have to stay in LA?

Right, who says that I have to live in house, you know, who says that? I can’t have a nomadic lifestyle? You know, there are lots of choices. It’s just that do I want to boldly consider them. So, you know, when I was sitting on that couch feeling miserable, remembering how my mom would go to these parties and work so hard and act like it was her only choice, because her highest value was how do people view the way that I serve them? That was where she found her worth. And I say this to you hoping that some of this resonates with you, because some of you are bending over backwards to serve other people that wouldn’t spend five minutes doing that for you. And I’m talking about our kids, you know, because our kids don’t, you know, they don’t owe us anything, but I’m talking about the grown adults in your life. And that includes your job, you know, are you bending over backwards to serve this thing that doesn’t serve you because you think you lack options. And I want to encourage you to look around and see what your other options are, including the ones that you’re not willing to consider, because they’re too bold. Because they’re too scary. But you know what, they’re still options. You’ve got to take out a piece of paper and write them down and consider them. Because what isn’t an option is staying in the same place.

Because what I can tell you is that the last thing you want is to put into the type of high pressure, push or shove moment, where you have to go.

And I say that as someone who if you’ve listened to, you know, some of our chats from last season, that’s what a medical situation is. That’s what a difficult-to-bounce back from financial situation is. That’s what it looks like when you find out your kid needs to go into rehab or has been diagnosed with cancer, you know, that is that push or shove moment, that calls you to be bolder than you desire, and possibly before you’re ready.

But one option that you always retain, is your choice around when to move, as long as you are considering your options before you do it.

So friend, as we’re going into a new year, before the new year actually arrives to us, one of the things I want to encourage you to do and I’m going to do it too, is to make a list of all your options even if they’re the ones that you absolutely don’t think are real options. Is it that you’re going to get a divorce? Is it therapy? Is it taking time apart? Is it learning more about yourself and figuring out what you can bring to your marriage? Is it looking at applying at other jobs? Is it taking some time off to not work at all for six months? Is it actually building that side hustle and seeing if you can make a little cash and when I say building it, I mean actually building and selling and working at it. Not just hoping and dreaming and playing around.

Make that list. I don’t want to see a goal list of just lose 10 pounds, right? I don’t want to see a goal list of you know, get in the gym more, eat more vegetables, drink more water, all those things are good and great but realistically, how bold is it to write down the same thing you’ve been writing every single year and taking no actual steps towards it.

You know what you need to do to get your American dream. You deserve more options, and you have plenty in front of you. So let’s go after it together. The real American dream is about options. So let’s start making good choices together.

Nicole:

Hey, friends, so you have been here on a journey, I am so grateful. I’m so grateful because our conversations that we have I see you on social posting in your cars and at the gym. And you know, it’s just, it’s really amazing to have this time with you and I don’t take it for granted. But I need to both apologize, I guess, and be really honest and transparent about the time that we have here and making sure it is of complete value.

And I want to let you know that I don’t take it lightly, what it means to be able to speak into people’s lives. And that’s something that I’ve always held in a lot of integrity and close to the vest that the life that I have right now is one that there are people who work towards it, there are people who are born into it, there are people who train for it. But at the end of the day, you don’t get this opportunity without God having sent you. And without having a special call over your life because things have to move in certain ways for you to even have this type of access and opportunity, which means that you have to be really responsible with it. And the reason why I say you know, it’s kind of like an apology call out, let’s just keep it all the way real is, I feel like there’s another level to this relationship. And while I get one of the number one thing that’s always said to me, and I hope you’re all are feeling where this is going because it is this is a kind of, we’re about to take our friendship to the next level kind of chat, you know, sometimes you have it with your girlfriend, sometimes you have it with your partner, your spouse, or sometimes even with your boss, where it’s like, hey, you know, I need more, you know, and we need, we need to dive deeper. And that’s very much what this chat is.

So one of the number one things that people say to me, and have said to me, that’s really been a call out over this book tour is all about Nicole, you are so transparent, you are so vulnerable, you are so authentic, you are just so real. And I have been wrangling with this, both emotionally, mentally, in therapy, in church, you know, with my friends. And I’ve dabbled in talking about it. So some of you if you’ve been on the book tour, or in some of these online conversations, you’ve heard me kind of voicing and kind of working through some of my thoughts around it. But it is true that everything that I share with you is 100% me in my rawest and most learning state. I’m not afraid to talk about the growth, I’m not afraid to look messy in front of you. I’m not afraid to share what I’ve learned, what mistakes I’ve made. And if you’ve read the book, Nothing is Missing. Y’all it’s out there, I’m so grateful, New York Times bestseller on shelves everywhere, you know, you know that I’m not afraid to be like, I screwed up in some big ways.

In my book, I talk about abortion. In my book, I talk about divorce. In my book, I talk about, you know, my difficulties in college, you know, I talk about all of these things, where I’ve never talked about them before. So I’m not afraid to look messy. And I’m not afraid to be subject to judgment. But I’ve always felt so much pressure when someone says you’re authentic and real, that you must be giving all of yourself. I don’t even know where that came from. I do know it’s a social media expectation, right? Where people think that if you don’t share something, you must be ashamed of it or embarrassed or hiding it, when the truth is you’re still working it through. That is the truth of most of us.

And the truth also is your people are not entitled to all of you, right? And what I can tell you is that over the past season of this podcast, you know, and I know I call them our little chats here, but you know, in the industry, they’re kind of looked at like seasons, right? But it really is a season of my life. I’ve been talking a lot about my divorce, you know, and what I’m learning through that process. And you all know that this sort of kicked off back in May, where I finally had a merge sort of from my hidey hole of grief, and built up enough strength, I can literally feel my stomach turning. I’m like, so I’m because I remember that time so deeply. And it was so hard. And I emerged enough to be able to articulate out loud to you that I was going through a divorce, and that I was divorcing and my family did not look the same anymore. And that I you know was working through what it meant about myself and about my life and my future, my finances and I only was able to talk about it. I mean, at that point, we were almost a year into being separated, in the process and the filing and all that stuff and but I was only able to say it out loud, because I’d finally been able to believe it, that it was really happening in person.

And then I shared with you that I’d fallen in love again, and you know, and all the bits and pieces in between and all that stuff was true and authentic and real and about where I was. But there were all also pieces that I hadn’t talked about, you know, and essentially, I want to let you know that I’m bringing this season to a close. That in the release of Nothing is Missing, I wasn’t just releasing a story into the world, you know, I wasn’t just releasing lessons that I’ve learned, I was catching y’all up so I could also close the door. I was releasing this previous life that I had, so that I can start really embracing and living completely in my new one.

And I wish I could say more chapters are closed. I mean, I’m still dealing with divorce, you know, and I’m still learning how to be a mom, you know, as a divorcee, and in a new relationship and in a new city. And you know, all of those things, you know, they’re always ongoing things, and I’ll talk about them here as they apply. But I do want to let you know that one thing that’s not changing is our time that we spend here together and trying to keep it as real and transparent with what I know, right? And as vulnerable with what I’m comfortable talking about, because I understand it enough to talk about it.

But I want to let you know that this is going to be the last chat within the season of starting over. And it’s not because I’m not going to be called to start over again, if you’ve paid attention to our previous chats, you know that starting over is going to keep happening, right? I’m always going to be starting over in one way, shape, or form and so are you. But I’m not starting over again. You know, what I need to do is tap into what I talk about in my book, which is living boldly.

I’m at a place where I finally have accepted that this is my life. I haven’t been plopped into something I didn’t decide for myself. I chose to be divorced, you know, I chose to get into a new relationship. You know, I chose to have to be a mother in this way and even though there are some things that I may not have wanted to work out a certain way or that, you know, you’re not in control of others, you know, others have shown up in a certain way, I chose this life. And I’m going to tell you the truth, I like it. I like the life I have. And I’m so happy with it, even though it’s a mess. If you remember from my book, and also from here, a common thing that you hear me say my mantra, especially in the starting over season, is everything is wrong, everything is right and nothing is missing.

Everything is so deeply wrong about my life, because it doesn’t look anything like what I planned, you know, and starting over, is going to do that. But everything’s right. Like for the first time in a long time, my life is so deeply meaningful and forward moving, even though it is a utter, complete and entire mess from what I thought it would be. But I want to transparently share that I want to talk to you about how I am choosing to make really big and bold calls, even if I’m not sure what the outcome is going to be.

I want to have conversations in this next season and next chapter about what it looks like to align even deeper with what God has sent me to do. I want to talk about the fears of what if I talk about this thing and it gets me canceled? Right? When I tell you, when you release a book, particularly a memoir, right? so I didn’t write a book that’s like a children’s book. You know, I didn’t write a fiction book about other characters, I wrote about myself. You write in a bubble for four years, you have no idea how people are going to receive it. I will say I shared the book with people in my life and pieces of it at least.

And I was very clear in advance of publishing the book, you know how I was going to address certain elements and certain stories and to get feedback and to ask people how they felt and all of that. I was very careful about that because, you know, when your story intersects with others, you want to be mindful of that. But at the end of the day, no matter what you’re going to get responses and feedback from the masses when they read it. And I’m grateful because the response was overwhelmingly positive. I mean, I have been floored by how generous and kind and impactful people I have said my book is and how they’re interacting with it. But it’s not lost on me that I really put myself out there. And I’ve had to have a lot of conversations over the book tour about what this book is about.

So, if you haven’t read the book, I do want you to know that it is the memoir of my life. And if you go back in this season, or if you even start from season one, you’ll hear kind of the journey of that, but this is more of the behind the scenes, you know, it is the, the breakdown of my health, the breakdown of my marriage, the growth, you know, I used to be so anxious and stressed and angry. And just, I was running a business and the business was working but I didn’t like the way I was doing it. I did not like the relationships that I was having. I didn’t like how I was showing up and I felt that in every aspect of how I was living.

And there’s something that has happened now, where because you all have this story in your hands. And because I’ve had some of these conversations. And for those of you who’ve only listened to the podcast, when I tell you even those conversations had an element of surface to them, because I wanted to honor the background with the book. But it’s all out there now. It’s out there. And now we can really talk. And I’m excited for it. So what does that mean? What does that mean our next chat is going to sound like? Because this is it. Right? This? Is it for the surface level? This is it for the high, high level 30,000 view kind of this is what’s going on. But I’ll tell you more later, you know, what does it mean for us to not talk like that anymore. What that means is I’m going to tell you things that you may not like. What it means is some of you are going to unfollow me. It means that some of you are going to have side conversations about things like, Did you hear what Nicole talked about, you know, on her season? Some of you are going to have full on jaw drop moments, it also means that there are going to be some episodes where I’m going to give you a full on headphones warning, which is your little clue in that the kid should not listen to this one. Or that you need headphones in the office because I’m going to, you know, really dive deep and be candid in my language so that you can really understand it without anything minced. And I’m excited about it. I’m excited about it.

And for those of you who have read the book or have a copy with you, we’re going to follow along. And we’re going to take it piece by piece, because in this book, every single chapter, there are 29 chapters, I go over a mindset, a thought, a belief system that I held that affected my life. I’ll give you some examples for those of you again, who have read the book. And those include things like life is the meeting and solving of problems. Choosing your heart, you are worthy when you wake up, right. And I know all of those sound fluffy and motivational. But when I get into the grid, the stories that are not in the book, because I understand that a book goes through a lot of editing. And there are things that I wanted to put in there that just did not make it to the table. But we’re going to talk about it and we talked about it on tour and I saw what it did impact wise. So we’re going to keep it very, very real. It’s not fluffy, we’re going to really dive in. But there are also things here that I know are going to make some of you cringe because you did not know that this is how I believed or this is a value that impacted my life or that it’s something that shaped who I am.

And I’m gonna say it out loud, I’m going to tell you because it could shape who you are. And I also want our relationship to again, always move forward in the most complete way. And we’re growing up together, you know, so I want us to grow in our relationship too. So you know, we’re gonna talk about things like black women are everything. You know, and that is chapter 10 of my book. And it is something that I believe and I know some of you may hear that and say, what does she mean by that? If Black women are everything does that mean every other woman isn’t? No, it means that and we’ll dive into it when it comes time to talk about this conversation. So if you’re willing to stick with me and hear it out, I think you’re gonna get a lot from it. But when I say Black Women or everything, I mean that with my whole chest, and you can fight me on it. And the reason why I say that is because of the fact that I would not be here without black women. And that is evidenced by my book tour. In every single room, it was 90% black women, because one thing that I know is that black women show up for me because we show up for each other.

And in chapter 10 of my book, I share a story. If you’ve already read it, you know this one. But if you haven’t just a little sneak peek, I share a story of how I got started in this business and the very first woman who told me, Nicole, you have a voice and you’re saying something worth hearing were black women. And they came to me within a church and they said, Look, you need to keep going, because what you’re doing is ordained, you’ve got something that’s worth pursuing.

And all my life, whether it’s there, or in corporate, or anywhere else, or on this book tour, I have only arrived where I am on the backs of black women. Now doesn’t mean that I haven’t been helped by other women, it doesn’t mean that I’m not blessed to have a community that is truly diverse, and truly robust. And, you know, even my own Misterfella is Hungarian, you know, it doesn’t mean that I don’t understand love and have space for all the women who have shown up in my life. And I will also say categorically, it’s women, you know, that is really something for me. But I have to tell you that when I walk into a room, and I see another black woman there, there is a feeling of home that supersedes anything else. And I want to make it very, very clear how much I deeply love black women and how grateful I am. And I want to share this, particularly for the women who aren’t black, that listen to this podcast, because I want you to love them too. And black women deserve to be loved, because of what they contribute to our culture, to our workplace, to our conversation, to identity, how they show up and if you love me, a huge part of our relationship is founded on and is because I am black. And I really want to talk about that in a big way. I raised three black daughters, and you are all internet aunties. And I know it’s so easy to live in a world where we don’t want to talk about race, because it’s uncomfortable. But you know, these are the type of things I want to dive into because I want you to know that we can’t gloss over those things. And we have a foundation, where you know that you’re safe here to have these conversations.

And you know, this space that I’m coming from, and you know, I wouldn’t waste your time if it wasn’t worthy to talk about. But we need to get more transparent, and even more authentic. And we need to remove some of the fluff in those conversations, and you know that you’re safe to have them here. And for the black women who are listening, who you know, may not need to be told what they already know, I want to affirm very clearly so that you can understand how seen you are and deserving you are and and I hope that this brings us all closer.

So it’s a call for us to stand in the uncomfortable together. And to know that we will be just fine. And to know that this next chapter is actually going to leave us better. And that these next conversations are going to be transformative. But the only way we can do them is if I’m willing to make the bold move to remove some of the veil that can come with the fear around what it’s going to mean to speak boldly. I’m grateful. You know, I have made the money, had the homes, had the car, gotten the titles, made the list. But again, I’ve been sent to do very specific work. And what you’re going to see in this next season is me answering that bold call. And also asking you to step up into your bold calling, whatever that may be. And know that whatever the outcome is, it’s going to be worth it.

So I want you to know that even if you haven’t read the book, even if you are just meeting me on day one, I’m excited for you. Because the person you’re going to meet is one who is not fully formed, but really stepping into their own. And I think that provides us an opportunity to start a relationship in a very real place. And for those of you who’ve known me from before, if you thought that I was keeping it real, it’s about to get a whole lot realer. And I’m excited for where this journey is gonna go because no matter what we are all going to grow together.

And as always, we continue these conversations on social, if you follow me at Nicole Walters, on Facebook and everywhere else, and y’all, let’s keep it going. I have no problem with that. Challenge me, ask me questions, let’s have these conversations, bring them to the podcast, it would be a joy.

But I also want you to know that the whole point of this is, I’ve been really, really good. This is my one superpower, in not being fearful, see, that’s not even sure let’s be honest, even while afraid, being first. I’ll be the first. I was watching my little one over Halloween trick or treating, and her friends were always afraid to go up and knock on the door. And if you know anything about Puffin, she’s quiet. She’s introverted. She is not the person when you’re in a room that would always go first. She likes to observe, she likes to watch and then figure out her place. But as she’s gotten older, I’ve noticed that she’s developing this leadership trait where if no one’s going to do it, she’s not afraid to step up and get it done. And I realized that I know she’s my adopted baby, right. But I’ve raised her since she was three and she gets that from her mama. Right? She gets that from me, that is a me thing. It’s stepping into the room. And looking and assessing what needs there are and figuring out how to stand in the gap.

And even if you’re afraid because I know for Halloween when her friends were standing back and she was like, I’ll go knock on the door. I’m not going to be worried about it. I’m going to get it done. But that was not something she did that wasn’t kind of a little scary for her. But she had faith that there was goodness on the other side. There was candy, obviously, right? But she also knew that whatever the outcome was that they didn’t answer, if they did answer that she could handle it that she would be able to speak up and say trick or treat first. And, you know, I was so proud to watch her not be afraid to be bold.

And if there’s anything that we need as women, as marginalized people, as business owners, as mamas, it’s to not be afraid to be bold, we have to be bold in the workplace, anybody gonna give it to us, we have to open our mouth and ask for it. We have to be bold in our relationships. So much of the demise of my relationship was because I settled and did not speak up for what I deserved. We have to be bold in our business. You deserve to be paid in full on time, what you are do, plus tax. Boldness serves you, and it looks good on you. And if I have to be bold, in starting to have the conversations with you, without all the veils, without all the nuances, you know, being mindful of grace, being kind and sensitive to the fact that we’re all in different places in our learning, understanding in our lives, but also challenging us a little bit to feel a little uncomfortable. Then I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna do it at risk of the fact that you might say, Nicole, I need to take a minute here. Several of you said that when you were reading the book, that there were times where you were like, this makes me uncomfortable because you are speaking into my life in a way that I’m not ready to hear. I had to put you down for a second Nicole right. I had to pause the audiobook and say, Oh, no girl, not today. You’re not coming for me. Well, listen, we’re going to do that a little bit here too, because it’s in my willingness to boldly step up and have these tougher conversations that I know I’m going to grow because I’m willing to share on a level that I’ve never shared before. But I also know that it’s going to unlock things for you, where you may have thought certain things about me, you may have had certain ideas around why I do certain things or what I may believe, or how I want to show up in the world.

And if you understand the full picture around that, you’re also going to understand how God is working in my life and why things have worked out the way they have. And it’s my hope that in unpacking that you can see yourself in that journey. It’s not lost on me that so many of you who have followed along here and on social, you have no idea how different you look. When I say different, I mean backgrounds. I mean, I went on this book tour, and I met people who grew up with every single need met in their life, incredibly wealthy. I met self-made Millionaires, I met people who are still trying to figure it all out single moms. I’ve met college students, you know, who are just trying to start out in the world and navigate. I mean, we all come from different lives. And you may not realize that because of the seat that you’re sitting in right now, and saying, Oh, well, I follow Nicole for these reasons. But I want you to know that we are all part of a singular community. And if we could all be in a room together, we realize how similar we are. And I can tell you collectively, as a community, one thing that can serve us is one, what we’ve talked about before, which is having the grace and the gumption, around knowing that we deserve to be able to start over shamelessly.

And that’s what I hope that we’ve gained from our previous conversations, that you are entitled to deserving and worthy of a right to say, I don’t want to be this person anymore. I don’t want to have this life anymore. And I’d like to start over. But I also want us to know that once we’ve decided and own that about ourselves, we have a right to boldly determine where we want to go and what we deserve in that world and call it and create it into our lives.

And that means I gotta go first. Just like my little baby, I gotta go first. So that means that I’m starting a new season. And in that new season in our new chats and our new conversations, I’m going a little deeper. We’re going to be a little bolder, and it may make us uncomfortable and some of y’all may tap out. But you know what, for those of you who stay here, where we’re going to go is limitless. And I just cannot wait to see what’s possible.

XXX

So I want you to know that even if you haven’t read the book, even if you are just meeting me on day one, I’m excited for you. Because the person you’re going to meet is one who is not fully formed, but really stepping into their own. And I think that provides us an opportunity to start a relationship in a very real place. And for those of you who’ve known me from before, if you thought that I was keeping it real, it’s about to get a whole lot realer. And I’m excited for where this journey is gonna go because no matter what we are all going to grow together.

And as always, we continue these conversations on social, if you follow me at Nicole Walters, on Facebook and everywhere else, and y’all, let’s keep it going. I have no problem with that. Challenge me, ask me questions, let’s have these conversations, bring them to the podcast, it would be a joy.

But I also want you to know that the whole point of this is, I’ve been really, really good. This is my one superpower, in not being fearful, see, that’s not even sure let’s be honest, even while afraid, being first. I’ll be the first. I was watching my little one over Halloween trick or treating, and her friends were always afraid to go up and knock on the door. And if you know anything about Puffin, she’s quiet. She’s introverted. She is not the person when you’re in a room that would always go first. She likes to observe, she likes to watch and then figure out her place. But as she’s gotten older, I’ve noticed that she’s developing this leadership trait where if no one’s going to do it, she’s not afraid to step up and get it done. And I realized that I know she’s my adopted baby, right. But I’ve raised her since she was three and she gets that from her mama. Right? She gets that from me, that is a me thing. It’s stepping into the room. And looking and assessing what needs there are and figuring out how to stand in the gap.

And even if you’re afraid because I know for Halloween when her friends were standing back and she was like, I’ll go knock on the door. I’m not going to be worried about it. I’m going to get it done. But that was not something she did that wasn’t kind of a little scary for her. But she had faith that there was goodness on the other side. There was candy, obviously, right? But she also knew that whatever the outcome was that they didn’t answer, if they did answer that she could handle it that she would be able to speak up and say trick or treat first. And, you know, I was so proud to watch her not be afraid to be bold.

And if there’s anything that we need as women, as marginalized people, as business owners, as mamas, it’s to not be afraid to be bold, we have to be bold in the workplace, anybody gonna give it to us, we have to open our mouth and ask for it. We have to be bold in our relationships. So much of the demise of my relationship was because I settled and did not speak up for what I deserved. We have to be bold in our business. You deserve to be paid in full on time, what you are do, plus tax. Boldness serves you, and it looks good on you. And if I have to be bold, in starting to have the conversations with you, without all the veils, without all the nuances, you know, being mindful of grace, being kind and sensitive to the fact that we’re all in different places in our learning, understanding in our lives, but also challenging us a little bit to feel a little uncomfortable. Then I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna do it at risk of the fact that you might say, Nicole, I need to take a minute here. Several of you said that when you were reading the book, that there were times where you were like, this makes me uncomfortable because you are speaking into my life in a way that I’m not ready to hear. I had to put you down for a second Nicole right. I had to pause the audiobook and say, Oh, no girl, not today. You’re not coming for me. Well, listen, we’re going to do that a little bit here too, because it’s in my willingness to boldly step up and have these tougher conversations that I know I’m going to grow because I’m willing to share on a level that I’ve never shared before. But I also know that it’s going to unlock things for you, where you may have thought certain things about me, you may have had certain ideas around why I do certain things or what I may believe, or how I want to show up in the world.

And if you understand the full picture around that, you’re also going to understand how God is working in my life and why things have worked out the way they have. And it’s my hope that in unpacking that you can see yourself in that journey. It’s not lost on me that so many of you who have followed along here and on social, you have no idea how different you look. When I say different, I mean backgrounds. I mean, I went on this book tour, and I met people who grew up with every single need met in their life, incredibly wealthy. I met self-made Millionaires, I met people who are still trying to figure it all out single moms. I’ve met college students, you know, who are just trying to start out in the world and navigate. I mean, we all come from different lives. And you may not realize that because of the seat that you’re sitting in right now, and saying, Oh, well, I follow Nicole for these reasons. But I want you to know that we are all part of a singular community. And if we could all be in a room together, we realize how similar we are. And I can tell you collectively, as a community, one thing that can serve us is one, what we’ve talked about before, which is having the grace and the gumption, around knowing that we deserve to be able to start over shamelessly.

And that’s what I hope that we’ve gained from our previous conversations, that you are entitled to deserving and worthy of a right to say, I don’t want to be this person anymore. I don’t want to have this life anymore. And I’d like to start over. But I also want us to know that once we’ve decided and own that about ourselves, we have a right to boldly determine where we want to go and what we deserve in that world and call it and create it into our lives.

And that means I gotta go first. Just like my little baby, I gotta go first. So that means that I’m starting a new season. And in that new season in our new chats and our new conversations, I’m going a little deeper. We’re going to be a little bolder, and it may make us uncomfortable and some of y’all may tap out. But you know what, for those of you who stay here, where we’re going to go is limitless. And I just cannot wait to see what’s possible.

XXX

So it’s been a blessing for us to have our time over this last season as we’re starting over and figuring out fresh starts and getting to the bottom line of who we are and how we want to show up and acknowledging that, you know, a lack of clarity is part of the process but we have to chase that clarity in an ongoing way while extending ourselves and giving ourselves some grace.

But what I’m excited about is that for this next season of our life, while taking all the lessons from the one prior, we’re going to walk and live boldly. We are going to walk into every room knowing we deserve to be there. We are going to say who we are and know who we are with our whole chest. We are going to have uncomfortable conversations that are still laced in love and that are still rooted in honesty, tolerance, kindness and grace. And we’re going to know that nothing is missing isn’t just a mantra, but it’s a practice. And I want us to have conversations where nothing is missing.

So friend, I’m grateful to you for standing with me and all the hard of the previous season and I’m thankful for you for being with me and creating and uplifting and being part of the joy that came along with the last season. And I want to honor that by standing with you and doing it together as we start to live boldly. Grab your books, tune in, show up and let’s dive deep.

Nicole:

Hey y’all, I love that we’re about to have this chat because I’m here with your favorite person. He’s my favorite too but I swear you all like him more than I do because especially post-tour when you had a chance to meet him. So many of you were like, No, this is our new favorite person. So we’re here with the Misterfella, the love of my life Mr. Alex Csillag, he’s here today.

Alex:

Hello, pleasure to be here again.

Nicole:

Oh gosh, not the podcast voice.

Alex:

Always with the podcast voice. 

Nicole:

Hello, pleasure to be here. And I have to tell you, if you don’t follow if we have clips on YouTube. I’ve never shared this but so you know we have a YouTube channel for the podcast so if you head over there you can actually see like expanded video and clips and all that and then obviously I share on social but the reason I’m calling out today is that we look like trash.

Alex:
Oh my god.

Nicole:
Hot mess.

Alex:
Feel like trash, look like trash, all of it.

Nicole:

All of it. So tell the people why we are are dragging our tails into this.

Alex:

Because we’re pretending like we’re younger than we are. <laughs> We tried to have a life last night.

Nicole:
That was a terrible idea.

Alex:
It was it was.

Nicole:
We have children how dare we think we can have a life!

Alex:
Can I just highlight what this morning gave?

Nicole:
Please give, literally just to set the tone. We have a morning routine with handling the baby, let’s let’s lay the groundwork.

Alex:
We have a new morning routine is get up at 7:15. That’s just before/roughly the same time as the baby wakes up. That’s Ally, she’s 11 but we call her the baby. <laughs> So around 7:15 I get breakfast together for us. You know I’ll cook like a breakfast sandwich or some scrambled eggs or whatever. And then she packs her lunch and stuff. And then we go over our Word of the Day where we’re trying to expand our vocabulary.

Nicole:

What’s the word of the day, for everyone who’s trying to learn?

Alex:
We didn’t do one today…

Nicole:

What has it been? Oh, It’s pandemonium.

Alex:

Yes yesterday was pandemonium, which actually described this morning. 

Nicole:
We are equipping our child, a mess.

Alex:

And and then we do about five to 10 minutes or whatever time that we can get in she’s learning French on Duolingo and I’m doing Spanish on Babble and so we’ll get in some language and then we go to school and I get her there in time so she can get in like peacefully, go to her locker, do not rush… And this morning, this morning I wake up at 8:10, 8:10!

Nicole:
First of all, how do we wake up? Tell the truth. It wasn’t an alarm.

Alex:

I woke up just like from like oh my god I need to be up it’s the morning but little did I know my phone was going off, Nicole’s phone was going off, banging on the door, missed FaceTime calls. All these things as we woke up we heard banging on the door and I looked at the clock, it’s 8:10, school starts at 8:30. I was like oh my god missed breakfast, missed our entire morning routine, drag my butt out of bed and got her to school on time like a champ!

Nicole:
Like a champ! Okay, I will say for the record this fella and we’ve been on it okay? Like we usually, we get her out the door and we adjust, we pay attention like what do we need to change the schedule whatever. I mean we just fell apart and it was all because of Halloween! We lied to ourselves. We took her trick or treating and then after we took her trick or treating we were like great she’s in bed it’s like 839, we got time! Let’s just have a cocktail.

Alex:
Let’s go to our local spot…

Nicole:
And visit some friends. It’ll be nice you know not too far away, we got this right? You know, walking distance like just down the block, around the corner. This is gonna be beautiful. Oh every parent relates to this. We messed around and tried to live like the youth and have our own life and we paid for it this morning.

Alex:

My god and it’s good thing we had to talk about like things should go a certain way but sometimes things happens. Adults don’t always do things as it’s supposed to go, just like with the pickup stuff.

Nicole:

And so she was ready.

Alex:

She was ready. So this morning I was like remember when we talked about that things don’t always go according to plan. Thank you for rolling with it.

Nicole:
I love that.

Alex:
We had a whole morning, I totally forgot to set my alarm.

Nicole:

So here we are, here we’re long story to tell you we look terrible this morning.

Alex:
Terrible, I throw on, I have two different socks on. I was just at the doctor’s, rushed over here. They got some blood work. They missed my vein so I got stuck in my right, stuck in my left.

Nicole:

Oh my gosh, I’m sorry. I didn’t know, I didn’t even get to catch up. But y’all know like I am in sweats, no makeup, wig off kilter, eyebrows, I hope they match. They probably look like fraternal twins versus identical twins like it is a mess. So just to let you know, I hope wherever we find you that you are in good condition, because we are a mess.

So, you know, we’re gonna kind of not breeze through this chat, because I’m excited to talk about what we’re going to talk about, because we’ve never discussed it before. But we’re also hungry, and we need to eat something. So just letting you know the energy of it is, if you are in a place where you’re like, let’s get the show on the road, because you have things to do, this is the perfect chat for you.

So the thing I want to talk about is, and the reason why you’re here is two things one, next week, when you listen to the conversation I have on the pod, I’m actually going to be ending this season of the Nicole Walters podcast. Gasp!

So it sounds bigger, I am not ending the podcast, overall, I am shifting the conversation from fresh starts to living boldly. Now, I’m gonna go into detail about that but that also includes having guests, you know, here that I want to make sure every conversation I bring to you is really in alignment with where you are and where I am. And that also means that the Misterfella, who is easily one of the favorite guests that we have…

Alex:
Rightfully so.

Nicole:
Our conversations are going to change here. So they’re going to be more vulnerable, more honest, more deep dives, and some of you will like it, and some of you will not and either way, we will all grow. So we’re going to talk about something very real today that I have learned, that we went through, and people experience from the outside, but you know, we’re going to talk a little bit about it from our side. And I’ll just say it, we worked together for the first time. And I wanted to share with that site, because people always ask me what what is like working with a spouse or a partner? And what does that do for you?

So I’ll kick it off with have you ever worked with because you’re in the industry, have you ever worked with a partner or spouse or well not spouse obviously, a partner or a girlfriend before?

Alex:

On, like, personal projects here and there.

Nicole:
Oh!

Alex:

You know, just like if it was a project I was on, like, past girlfriends might have helped me out with certain aspects of it. But nothing like this.

Nicole:

Nothing like this. So how did that work for you? When you worked with them before? Do you have any thoughts about like, what it’s like to I have tons of thoughts about working with partners, some trauma-based, some legit. So you tell me, what has that been like for you in the past?

Alex:

Well, in the past, I mean, even just working with friends, I’ll even just start there. Like I’ve had past experiences where I was working with friends of mine, like more regularly and a little bit more seriously. And then you kind of get into it, you have disagreements about certain things. And then I mean, long story short, we’re not friends anymore. Right? Like, you know, we did some good music together and whatever. But you know, now we’re not friends. And so since that whole situation, I’m very careful with who I work with, like, whether it be a friend or a spouse or partner or whatever, I’ve always been a little weary since then, because I would rather keep my friendship, I would rather keep my relationship strong than try to, like, not force a work relationship but like, that’s more important to me to keep my personal relationships a friendship, you know, and home life and that’s, that’s the priority.

Nicole:

No, for sure. I feel like a lot of people share that feeling of like, I don’t want to do anything, because the relationship matters a lot, you know, or they’re just doing it for the first time. And they’re like, Oh, it’ll be fine. Why wouldn’t I want to work with my bestie? You know, but then they learn very quickly.

Alex:
It’s very different.

Nicole:
It’s complex, what type of like, what, when did you know it was going bad? Oh, um, whenever you I love the story. I love the choice because I’m gonna let you spell and then I’m gonna say my thing. Listen, when did you know it was going bad in some of these relationships?

Alex:

The one with the friend?

Nicole:
Yeah, any of them.

Alex:
Okay, so that one, for example, it was really just the thing of, you know, we were just kind of starting out and we were kind of like, not using each other but we were like, you know, we filled each other like gaps of knowledge, or ability.

Nicole:
But that’s what everyone says works! People are like, Well, you’re the things that I’m not and…

Alex:
Right. And so the problem is, problems started to arise when I started work with other people as well. It wasn’t just about this relationship. I’m also trying to cultivate other relationships.

Nicole:
Like jealousy?

Alex:
Yeah, maybe a little bit of jealousy or like, you know, not getting not getting all the attention or all the effort. I don’t. I don’t know what it was, but you know, whatever it was, it just became a problem because I’m like, I’m trying to work with many people. So I’m like, if this is an issue, like this is a major issue.

Nicole:
Wow. So this is a different type of mess. I think so for me, the thing that always would come up was more of a that whole thing of Oh, you have these skills, but I have these skills, but we also realize that like you, you maybe aren’t showing up the way you said you would so like for me, it’s always I’m not partner-inclined. Like I don’t like it. I do not like partnerships, mostly because I know my work style and I Know how much we will talk about with, with how we work together, I know my work style, I know who I am, I know how I like to show up. And no one will ever care the way I do about my stuff, right?

So even in my previous marriage, you know, when my my ex would say, we’re partners, you know, like, or I love this partnership, I would always shut that down, I would say this is no, this is not a partnership, this is my company, it’s my business, my name is on it. And people can take that any way they want to. Which preview of next season, we’re keeping it very real avail. You know, people can take that any way they want to, you know, and there are learnings I have from that relationship and how I managed my business and my relationship, you know, what that meant about respect and trust, and all those things. Things that I do not bring into this relationship. So it didn’t, it didn’t even occur to me then how telling it was that I was almost protecting my business from my partner.

And that I did not feel like that was something I wanted at the time, you know, that says more about me than it does about my partner, you know, that I was like, No, you are not in this, you know, if you do work you’re in any capacity is as an employee, here’s your check. This is your role. This is that. And I think on some levels, that was because I wanted to do the thing that you’re talking about, protect the relationship. Where I was, like, if it’s very clear that I am CEO, you are employee, this is what it is here are your tasks and responsibilities, do them or don’t be terminated, you know, then it isn’t a question of, you know, well, I need more time or I need whatever else, but then it doesn’t work because of the relationship, it always gets cloudy.

Alex:
Yeah, that’s a major thing. Like, especially like if you’re working for a friend or a partner, like some people have the attitude that because you’re working for somebody you know, or you’re tight with that you get some slack.

Nicole:
Mm hmm.

Alex:

And that is not the time to try to get that slack. That is the time to work even harder, because you’re working for somebody that you know and care about and love and so you should do your job properly.

Nicole:
Or better!

Alex:
Or even better, I mean, you should always do your job right and properly. But I mean, if especially if it’s somebody that you love or care about your friends with, like you need to work even harder and make sure it’s done. Because that’s how you mess up a relationship. That’s where it goes downhill.

Nicole:
But that’s also a major difference in opinion and work styles and work ethic to begin with because I think there’s so many people out there who have even employees. I struggle with this where people will work with me, and they’ll know that Nicole Walters on social media, who is grace-filled, and hugs and love and all that who is I mean, you can attest to this very much who I am. But the work-Nicole still has obligations and bills, it’s different, you know, and I think that family members get that confused. You know, spouses and partners will get that confused, and just strangers. I have stopped hiring anyone who has ever signed up for a course with me or has worked with me before because the mental shift and the expectation from enjoying the outcome of the product versus being part of making the product. People never know what it takes. And it’s not their job to understand it. You know, it really isn’t.

Alex:
That’s a big one.

Nicole:
So let’s talk about what it took for us to work together because I gotta tell you, I didn’t want to do it. I was scared.

Alex:

Yeah, I mean, I bet. It was new territory.

Nicole:
Were you scared? Were you worried about it?

Alex:
Well no, because I know how I operate.

Nicole:
<laughs> So like, you weren’t scared of me? You weren’t like, Oh, what if this girl…

Alex:
I know how to handle you. <laughs>

Nicole:

Okay. Okay, so y’all we just finished, came back only probably like 12, 15 days ago. It’s not long ago from the Nothing is Missing book tour. So if you have been keeping up around social at Nicole Walters, you know that I just released the New York Times best selling book, USA Today best selling, Book Publisher Weekly best selling book… Nothing is Missing. And I’m so grateful, it’s my memoir. But I had the opportunity to meet so many of you across the nation in our nationwide tour. And in order to facilitate and be at that tour, I had a team with me on the ground, which was a blessing. But part of that team for the very first time was my partner Alex, who was there as tour manager on the ground. So he coordinated my drivers, my calls, check ins, flights, just all these logistics around just making sure I was where I needed to be when I needed to be there and fed, dressed, ready to go and that, you know, glam. I mean, literally, he just made sure that all I had to worry about was serving and serving well. So thank you for that by the way.

Alex:
You’re welcome.

Nicole:
I love you. I love you and you’re so great. But that said it was the first time we’ve ever worked together and we decided to jump right in and be together for like 10 days straight. So truth moment, what do you think? How was it for you?

Alex:
It was fine. I mean, there’s definitely…

Nicole:
Not fine!

Alex:
It was fine. It was great. I mean, it was fun.

Nicole:

No, no honest answer. Not it was the best time of my life, God, it was amazing. I was just in awe of how amazing you are now, and this is why I love you because you told me the truth people don’t even know like, the way you challenge me and like, go ahead. Okay, so how’d it go?

Alex:
No, it was amazing. I mean, everything was very went, like, relatively smooth and everyone was happy.

Nicole:

We’re telling the truth, this is leaning into the truth. We had bumps, there was stuff that came up during that tour that filled the room. You know, we don’t have to go into detail around what that is because I’m going to talk about that next season in a very pointed way, you know, but there were things that came up.

Alex:
Yeah there, there were things that came up.

Nicole:
Divorce related things, kid related things, it was stressful.

Alex:
So I’ll separate the two because as far as the tour itself, and how things ran as like the job, everything ran like pretty, pretty smooth. There was a little bit of tardiness, there was a little bit of like flexibility in terms of scheduling. But like everything ran really, really well. All the events were super successful.

Nicole:
The team was tight.

Alex:
The team was tight. There were bumps along the way on a personal level, like in our personal life.

Nicole:

Isn’t that what causes a problem? The personal stuff, right?

Alex:

That’s what caused like, some bumps with scheduling or like, whatever. But um, the main thing that I had to navigate on my side was when to push you, when to let it be, when to say something. And know what gaps to fill, and when to just let it be. Like those are, I mean, it’s a little bit complex.

Nicole:

Talk about it, just be honest. So what’s that like, because I have an idea of I know what it’s like to be me inside my body. Right? I know what I think is difficult about me. But I also know, and I say difficult honestly, I know what’s great about me too, you know, like, I know how I show up and what’s required. But from the outside, I’d love to hear like kind of one, you did an excellent job.

Alex:
Thank you.

Nicole:
I mean, I felt loved, I felt cared for, I felt safe. I felt protected, I felt prioritized, you know, when I needed to be prioritized. And I’m grateful because there’s an intentionality. And a, I don’t want to use the self-sacrifice, but you were willing to put yourself second to assure the needs of the season, because it ultimately helps our family in general. So I just really love and appreciate you for that. Because I’ve never experienced that before. So thank you. But that said, I know there were times where it wasn’t easy. So let’s talk a little bit about what I’m like behind the scenes on tour because people only know what I am when I show up.

Alex:

Right. So talking about those differences, like Yeah, you are very, like you said, grace-filled and kind and happy. And blah, blah, blah, and all those great things when it comes to work and business and scheduling and professionalism and all these things, I mean, you are like, what you’re very on it, like, and you take it really seriously. And you should.

Nicole:
Like near tears seriousness.

Alex:
And yeah, very serious because you know, I don’t know if it’s from your own personal trauma or wherever it comes from.

Nicole:
We’ll break that down next season. Some of it is anxiety.

Alex:

Sure, just because you don’t want the one thing you mess up on to create some kind of trickle down effect and all the other things to follow, which I totally understand what to let people down, no one to let people down. And I understand when you are like the star, like this is this tour is, you’re the star of this tour.

Nicole:

I would say I’m the lead. The star of the tour is my community, you know, to me.

Alex:
So you’re the lead.

Nicole:
So the truth is no matter what goes wrong, I don’t do anything without a whole team behind me. But people will say it’s Nicole that didn’t do it. And I’m just very aware of that. I don’t want to let people down, you know?

Alex:
I understand the stress because even in a company, it all falls down to the CEO, even if there was just some lower level employee that did something you know, so I totally get it, it all falls on your head. But you like handled everything really great. And but…

Nicole:
I think you’re being generous.

Alex:
You do take things very seriously. And I knew coming into this that I needed to match that energy. Because we weren’t here to play around or play nice. We’re here to get the job done. And you never see me and I, as a musician, I’ve gone on tour, I’m used to running like falling itineraries and like knowing what’s going on. And like we’ve talked about, I’m always the one that if nobody steps up to the plate to just handle it, I will always be the one. So I’m not a stranger to like stepping into any kind of leadership roles or coordinating or whatever.

So I knew that this time and we’ve talked about even when I go into when I go into performances, you know, and we’ve gotten to like little tiffs or like whatever and talk about it. Yeah, and you know, we’ve gotten a little fights on the way to a performance of mine or something and I’m like, I don’t like to go into a performance with bad energy or feeling. You know, any kind of stiffness or stress or whatever, you want to go in feeling good.

And so like, I know that mentality of it. So even if I had something to say to you, I would phrase it in a delicate way, or I would time because I know you, if I stress on time, if I like, bring that stressful energy, it will stress you out. And that will affect how fast you get ready, that will affect the energy in the car on the way to the event, and subsequently affect the event itself. And so even starting from like, hey, it’s kind of getting close to that time. Let’s go, you know, let’s get your hair together. And let’s get dressed. And you know, let’s go.

Nicole:

That is very much how you talk to me on tour. So let’s just be honest, so what is it like, I think I know the answer to this, you know how I am when I’m getting ready. Once I’ve kind of gotten into getting ready mode.

Alex:
Oh yeah, don’t talk to her.

Nicole:
At all. Because if you talk to me or ask me questions, or whatever, we’re slowing down the whole process. Let me just do what I got to do so you can get out the door so that I can be close to that time. Right? So what’s interesting to me is we in the grand scheme, like having come out of a 12 year marriage, you don’t I mean, like and feeling like just gonna listen, we just gonna say it. Having come out of a 12 year marriage and feeling like I don’t know if I was ever married to someone who knew me at all. It definitely doesn’t know the me that is sitting here today, like has no clue who I am. It’s so interesting being with someone who I feel really knows how to read me, knows how to understand me, knows how to see me. And as a gift as a privilege as an honor adapts to me because you don’t have to. And in certain circumstances, how do you think you’ve got like that?

Alex:

Well, it was interesting. I remember, I think I brought it up to you before, but I’ll say it here. I think it was the Houston event. Might have been Houston. Anyway, I met somebody at one of the events. And you know, and you had said something during that event where you said you need to surround yourself with people who will give, because if you’re a giver, you’re just gonna give, give, give until you have nothing left. Right? And so it was I kind of have that in mind a lot that like, especially on that tour, where you are giving so much to the people around you, your team, like all the people who attended the events, like all the people who are running the venues, like, you know, you’re giving all this energy, and it’s no sleep, and it’s all this and it’s like no food, you know, it’s just hustle. 

And so you give so much to everybody around you, I was trying to give some back to you, you know, to give what I could so whether it be make sure that you ate, like baby we have to go to sleep, or we are screwed. You know, now, it’s a couple hours here, a few hours on the plane to get it in where we can, I’ll grab you a coffee, like, you know, just making sure you sleep, make sure you eat, make sure you run relatively on time, and that you’re comfortable because it is your job in that instance, to do the job, you’re not supposed to have to worry about all this stuff. So I was happy to stand in those gaps for you where I could, you know, and again, you’ve never seen me on tour or anything. So in that mode, I’m like, I know, kind of I have a way better idea like of what needs to get done.

Nicole:
And I’ve always said you’re just very empathetic, like I when I you all you know, you’ll get to know Alex a little more as I as we have additional chats in this next season. And I bring him very specifically to have certain conversations. But Alex is extremely empathetic when I say he truly can see and understand and put himself into other people’s shoes. And I’m so grateful for that, because it allows him to give me very specific grace, not just general grace, you know, it’s understood. I feel very seen and very understood in this partnership. So, you know, with respect to time, you know, I do want to talk about how powerful that was, for me, I’ve never worked with a partner before and a lot of that is because of the fear of Will they understand the safety, will they understand the work ethic, will they understand the need to show up and sometimes shut up, you know, and just get the job done? Will they understand the weight of it, you know, will they match my work ethic, particularly when the outcome is going to feed all parties and you know, in typical employee/employer relationships, that’s an odd thing to expect.

And I think a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with that because you want your team to feel like they are as invested as you are and if there’s anyone listening just let you know that’s not a realistic expectation at all. But in working with a best friend or a spouse or a partner, at minimum you deserve to be seen, you know especially when you’re doing the hard things, you know, and it is knowing when to step back, and when to prioritize yourself and that you can always center yourself. And I’d like to think that I’ve been in your work worlds before, you know, I always try to help you get out the door. And I mean, I don’t know, you could speak to it.

Alex:
Oh, yeah, you’ll like, get me iced coffee, or fill my water bottle or pack me a little snack bag. Because you know, I’m about to make like an hour and a half, two hour drive or something.

Nicole:
And you’ll fight me all along the way.

Alex:
I’ll fight you, or I’ll come home, and then you’ll have some food ready, this amazing dish, put together. It’s like, it’s nice, because like, well, like, we’re both performers. You know, and we both know that after this many hours, after this kind of experience, you are going to be feeling this way.

Nicole:

It’s about making it so that they don’t have to think, wherever you can, because you’ve got no brain cells left.

Alex:
Oh, yeah, just nothing, just brain is mush. So it’s nice to not have to think and there’s food there or like, or there’s, you know, you fill my water or, like, filled it with ice or like just all these little things, but they’re really helpful. And they make a difference throughout the night. You know, like, if, you know, if I go to an event, I didn’t fill my water bottle, or at least put ice in it, you know, I’ll be drinking a bare minimum, you know, room temp water, which isn’t the worst, but I love my cold water.

Nicole:
It’s knowing what your partner needs.

Alex:

And it makes a big difference for me on the gigs. When I’m dancing and moving and I’m hot, I want some cold, frickin water, you know, and then it just does the trick. And then it gets me revitalized and I can do my job better.

Nicole:

And it’s so interesting, because it’s showing up in different ways. So for you, that may seem like a big thing for me, I’m like, it’s such a tiny give. And, you know, for you, you’re like, it doesn’t take much for me to put myself kind of behind and be like, hey, you know, Nicole, I may want to scream this at you but maybe it’s time to go. You know, like, for me that’s so big, because it helps me to show up.

Alex:
And then if it is really getting down to the wire, and I know I’m like, Okay, I need to let you know that I’m serious. I’m like, Hey, for real, yeah, got to go. That’s, you know, he’s a little bit more firm voice with you, but it’s still so kind, it’s not yelling, it’s not trying to stress you out, because I don’t wanna stress you out. But I do want to convey the message.

Nicole:

And so talking about conveying messages, y’all, I’m hoping that you catch the message that we’re sharing here, which is, I used to be of the school of you can’t work with a partner, that just because in my experiences, it wasn’t good. You know, it did not work out. Work ethics wouldn’t match, you know, objectives don’t match, understanding around roles wouldn’t match. And I mean, these are all things that both of us said can be true. But I’m hoping that you extract from this conversation from our book tour experience, for those of you who got to see us in person, you saw the dynamic of it all. So many people are like, boy, do we get you two now that we’ve seen you together.

Alex:

Oh, yeah, people would be like, oh, you’re exactly the same.

Nicole:

Which we’re not, but we are but we’re not.

Alex:
We are but we’re not. We’re not. It’s like, yes, we are those people. You know, it’s not like a thing that’s put on for the internet. It’s not like an act like we are silly, we are fun, like we are just who we are. But there’s also you know, and you can phrase it however you want. But I’ve always said that people are multi-dimensional.

Nicole:
Yeah.

Alex:
And we will have many selves, you’re not just this one thing. Yes, you can be happy and bubbly and whatever. But when it comes to, like, use that, like for business, I mean, you’re very matter of fact, there’s no excuses to not get the work done. Get it done because literally it’s like the attitude of the industry. Like nobody cares about your problems. That’s right, point blank, literally nobody cares, just get the thing done. And that’s just the reality of how it goes.

Nicole:
And you helped me get it done and I’m grateful for that. And and I really hope that anyone who is wondering I’ve evolved and my thoughts around partnership in work and learning more about you know, it’s not just what they do, or or the structure of the business, but it’s also who the person is and I’m just very thankful to you and I think that this has been a useful conversation. I also think that you know, when the time is right we’ll dive more into the breakdown of what that tour was actually like. But I know that for the conversation we’re having here, this was a huge checkmark I think in my internal elevation of our relationship you know, which is wild because we are years into this thing and into this partnership you know, and yet here I am still finding myself, it sounds cheesy to say falling more in love with you but falling deeper in respect and trust and safety with you. And I thought I felt safe before but this was another mark of that.

Alex:

Right because I mean the operating in each other’s backs rises you know it’s like I’ve come in here this is your workspace and this was a big stepping stone but on something like the book tour, meeting all the publishers…

Nicole:
And my people!

Alex:
And your people because the Internet Aunties and I met everybody everywhere and we’re in a work capacity but also you know, interacting with people and whatever and I am you know if anyone is you You know, we should, everyone should be aware that like, whoever you bring along with you to your workplace, yes, and, or to your event or to your house or whatever, they are an extension of you, and they are representative of you. And so the way that I operate on that tour is I am a representative of a view. And so I have to act, you know…

Nicole:

And I love you for that. I’m so grateful for that understanding, and I hope I do and provide that for you as well. And, and I just hope that for those of you who are listening, and maybe reflecting on your current partnerships, you know, and understanding that, however you work together as a reflection of so many other aspects of your life, you know, I really hope that you were able to pull and extract elements, at least, about what works and what doesn’t, you know, and I know, this sounds very, like, you know, hunky dory, you know, super sweet, you know, but I told you about some of our friction moments. And, again, we’ll be back to talk more in the future about some of the bigger things that did occur, because life kept happening while we were on that tour.

So we had some big moments that happened there, in relation to my divorce, in relation to parenting, you know, with my older girls, you know, that we had to handle and boy, did you keep me covered. So there’s so much more coming in this next season that I’m excited about. But thank you so much for one for just being here because I love you. And I think you’re amazing. And I’m just I can’t even believe I know you like I’m so grateful. God is so good. But also for always sharing so openly. I worry about what you’re gonna say sometimes. But not so much here, you kept it real here. And I appreciate that.

Alex:
Of course, the only way to be.

Nicole:
And the aunties love you, officially in person.

Alex:
I love them, too, they’re super nice.

Nicole:
That’s right. All right, y’all, please, please, please, whatever you do, make sure that you are leaving comments and reviews that you are subscribing that you have this under instantly download, you know, there’s like a button you can push at the top of the podcast because next week’s chat is major. It is major because it is going to set the tone of where we are going in the future because we’ve got some big things to do and some big work to do. And this is all based on our conversations on this tour. And some of the learnings, it’s about to get even realer than ever before.

So thank you so much for spending the time here. Just know that you deserve your fresh starts and even more you’re going to be called to live boldly.

Nicole:

Friends, can I tell you, you know how I am about bringing people into our fold, our conversations that we have, the time that we spend together, it is so important to me that I only introduce you to the best, and the brightest people. Now, you may have already heard about Caroline Sansbury, but I want to let you know how absolutely wonderful she is. Now, it is so easy when you watch TV or follow on social to build an idea of who you think someone is. But I am so excited to introduce you to the comprehensive Caroline.

Now, this woman is a great friend, an excellent mother, a loving partner and this is only a tiny glimpse of what you see online. But when I tell you she is all that and more. So I’m so excited to bring her here for us to chat for you to learn about her as a woman, as an inspiration, as a mentor, as a business owner, you get to meet everything about her and more. You’re going to love her as much as I do. Caroline, thank you for being here today.

Caroline:

Wow, what an entrance. Thank you so much for having me. It was amazing.

Nicole:

Oh, it’s so so true. It’s so true. And I’m so glad you’re here all the way from Dubai. You came a distance.

Caroline:

17 hours. I’m still a little jet lagged. But the good thing is it means I have been sleeping. He was up at four this morning. What am I talking about? But I am not going out? Which is the first time I’ve hit LA and not go out.

Nicole:
Yes, yes. Well, it’s funny because whenever you’re jet lagged, the when you wake up in the morning at four or five, you’re like, great. I can get an early start to the day. This is wonderful. But then three o’clock in the afternoon hits and you’re like I’m done.

Caroline:

You hit a wall, you absolutely hit a wall. Everyone’s like what do you mean? You’re not going out tonight? I’ve cancelled everything so far. But I’m here for Bravo Con, so I want to make sure that I’m okay by then.

Nicole:
Yes, well, let’s talk about Bravo Con. I have a number of friends who are doing Bravo Con and let’s talk about that. Because that is a lot of people’s first major introduction to you. You’ve always had a presence in the world, whether or not you’ve come across you on TV or anywhere else we’ve heard of you. Right? So let’s talk a little bit about what people think you are because it couldn’t be more wrong, right? Because that’s TV.

Caroline:

Yeah. I mean, I think you know, I was sort of labeled the ice queen with a heart on my first show. I think people think that I sort of woke up one day, and daddy handed me keys to a business and said, here you are darling, which will be lovely.

Nicole:
It would be so nice though! And it’s so funny, because having done a TV show also. And also we both have personalities online, you know, couldn’t be further from the truth. I don’t know if people know how absolutely, like warm you are, you know, like you really do care very much. And you’re so invested. I mean, and it’s really evident by all the businesses, which we’ll talk more about later that you’ve built, every single one. And I don’t even know if you realize this is about helping people. Yeah, it’s all about how can I help other women realize their fullest and truest and complete itself? And so, so it’s just so interesting that, you know, we can have these personalities online, like on Bravo or TV shows, and there’s just like, that’s so not who we are.

Caroline:

I think the thing is, as women, we’re sort of conditioned to not support other women in a way and to look at them and just say, Well, you know, if they’ve got here, there must have been an easy route, or they, you know, slept their way to the top, or they were given it. And nobody really sees the behind the hustle. And I suppose you know, in a way Instagram has done that because you don’t you know, you see a snapshot of an amazing outcome. But it’s far from the truth because if it was so easy, we’d all be there.

Nicole:
That’s it. That’s it. So let’s talk about what it’s really like. So you do have a beautiful life, you know, and I think that we all don’t take that for granted, particularly when we’ve had to work so hard to get it. So, you know, you’ve very publicly talked about having gone through divorce and entering a new relationship. So let’s talk a little bit about what that transition, selfishly and friends, you know where I am right now, doing the divorce dance, you know, and being a Mom, let’s go back to move forward. You know, what was that season like for you? Because your divorce is more public than most, you know?

Caroline:

Well, it was really difficult. I’ve been married 18 years. So anyone that’s been married 18 years, I think, what I went through a lot. I lost a lot of friends because from one minute to the next when I announced it on Instagram, I think people thought that I woke up in the morning and said woohoo I’m leaving today.

Nicole:

Yes. Oh my gosh, let’s talk about that not being the truth. No one is married for 18 years and gets divorced because they’re just like, oh, yeah, I never thought I’d be married and this will be so much more fun afterwards.

Caroline:

No, then or they met a young guy and they did that. Like let me tell you like, I had anxiety about leaving and I had anxiety about Sergio obviously, for those of you that don’t know my husband is 19 years my junior and obviously, the general consensus from the whole world was I was in the middle of a giant midlife crisis, which was, you know, I would have said the same to anyone by the way, I also would have said, that’s something you get on and you get off and it’s just a little bit of fun and you don’t leave your husband, go crawling back, beg for forgiveness.

Nicole:
And you’ve got kids that are in the mix. I mean, like, really, and truly this idea of a midlife crisis, I think is something that it doesn’t apply to everyone. But my goodness, if you haven’t made it to midlife, and you’re not asking yourself, Am I where I want to be? Is this really the life I want to have for the remainder of my life, you can label it a crisis if you want to. But realistically, if any woman says to herself…

Caroline:
It’s an awakening

Nicole:
It’s an awakening. If I am willing to walk away knowing I could be penniless, which a lot of people don’t realize how many women, no matter what it looks like, are truly facing that.

Caroline:

I mean, because at that time, I was going through an eight year law case, which was I was going bankrupt, or he was and then I was getting divorced. So it was not the ideal time, there never is an ideal time. And then obviously, I chose a man that was 24 years old.

Nicole:
Who is obviously just here to take care of you and write checks and wine and dine you 100%. 

Caroline:

And so, you know, technically, I think everyone thought I was going to end up in a bedsit shaking in the corner, living my worst life. And I was making the biggest mistake. And by the way, if that had happened, they would have been somewhat happier.

Nicole:
Which is the saddest thing, right? Because, you know, like you were saying about women supporting women. When I hear about divorce now, especially in the media with high profile players, I don’t feel good. It’s not something where I’m like, Oh, I can’t wait to watch this to see the highs and lows and the who did it. Because I know that, again, no one walks away from everything, unless they feel like nothingness could potentially be better. And that is a really bold statement for you to take that risk of saying, You know what, I’m going to walk away from this because I know that I’m enough, you know, and I will tackle whatever’s in front of me, it just speaks so much about the truth of who you are.

Caroline:

And I think that’s the really exciting part. Just, you know, obviously, it’s scary as hell and some people, most people make it by the way, I don’t really know anyone that’s collapsed the ride. They’re the happiest they’ve ever been. Someone DM me the other day going. Everybody’s saying to me, I haven’t hit the grief yet the grief yet, and it’s gonna hit me. And then I’m going to fall Caroline. And I said, I said I didn’t. That’s right. I didn’t I grieved in my marriage. Like, by the time I got out, I was ecstatic.

Nicole:

Oh, that’s such a great point. Because I think a lot of people forget that by the time you walk out of the door, the marriage has been done for years. Yes, years, you know, I was married for 12 years. And and when I look back on it, I was married for maybe three, you know, and I was just spending so many years trying to make it work or figure out how to change myself, or how to modify or start other projects to be happy or serve the kids, you know, and before you know it, by the time I left, that was a first my chosen myself in almost a decade.

Caroline:

Well I talk a lot. I mean, I talk about it a lot. I say the words I can’t bear is sacrifice. Like, I cannot bear that word attached to marriage. Why should I sacrifice myself? Compromise? Okay, yes, you have to compromise. But sacrifice? No, I’m not sacrificing my life and for my children or my husband. So it should be. As I’ve always said, he’s the cherry, he’s not the cake. And if you have that, then you know, you get through everything.

Nicole:

That’s so good. So let’s talk about where you ended up going. So you know, there was a sort of, I hate to call it a dark season, because it’s not really true. I mean, there you, it was brighter than ever before, the way I always describe it is, you know, there’s gratitude and grief at the same time. So the grief might come from mourning the fantasy, because it wasn’t, there’s no reality that that place was a better place to be, you know, but you mourn the fantasy of what you’re like, Oh, I felt like it was easier. I felt like you know, but the truth is, you’ve got a lot of work ahead of you. So you did a lot of work. I mean, between, you know, building all these very visible brands and businesses and you know, public figure work and being on TV and discussing it. And podcasting.

And I mean, just all of the things that you’re taking on as independent ventures, some of it because you wanted to, obviously, and some of it I know as a divorced woman, because you had to.

Caroline:
Yeah, you know, I think, you know, obviously, when you get divorced, no one really sort of walks away with bags of cash anymore. You know, it’s just not like that, and nor did I ever want that. Because at the end of the day I left. I don’t deserve to walk away with anything that he has on to whatever else. And I don’t feel like that, because I also wanted to come out with a relationship with him. You know, at the end of the day, there’s no such thing as divorce if children are involved, right?

Nicole:
Well, you divorce the relationship, not the children.

Caroline:
Yes and once you use the word divorce, it’s very scary to children because it’s like, you know, it’s like one of us going somewhere and not coming back, which is not true. So obviously there’s different times where one you hate the other one then the other one, you know, and you can kind of ride out these things instead of you understand with time and days that you get over it. 

And so, you know, look, I made the decision then to have one lawyer, we split the lawyer. I wasn’t going, I wanted him to give me whatever you wanted me to have. And that was it. I didn’t fight for the money. And I still don’t. I think I negotiated my divorce settlement down about a month ago, actually.

Nicole:

Can I just say, you know, people judge divorces, and they do it based on what they think a divorce is they think it is to people where somebody was wronged, you know, like a kind of like a business contract or any other partnership, someone must have been wronged. And that’s why it didn’t work. Most of the divorces are simply like, a conclusion out of the relationship. Yes, it’s just we went in when it’s full cycle.

Caroline:
18 years is a successful marriage by any standard.

Nicole:

By LA standards that’s like a 50 year marriage, you know, it’s like dark here. So that said, you know, you reach the conclusion of the relationship, you know, and new people emerge and you both…

Caroline:

And you have to have, and I think this is really important. You both have to have good lives. There is no point in me living like a queen. And he lives like, you know, he doesn’t. And he’s not enjoying his life. I mean, at the end of the day, he did nothing wrong. Yes. And nor did I and, you know, even if I have Sergio. There is nothing wrong with that, and people fall in and out of love. And I think, you know, so at the end of the day, I know how hard it is to make money. Yes. And it is to feed each other. And the world has changed. You know, the world of big banking, bonuses, and all of these paychecks is not a thing anymore. And you have to be realistic. And I think a lot of women aren’t realistic, and they think that they’re just gonna get this giant check and live exactly the way they lived before. And nor is it fair. Because if I was a man, I wouldn’t want to get married.

Nicole:
Absolutely.

Caroline:
If I knew that half my wealth was going somewhere else. And nor is it fair, and nor is it realistic to live like that anymore. You can’t live the same way as you did when you were married. And I think you know, you need to learn to adjust and I learned to adjust and I love to work. So you know, the hustle is real.

Nicole:
You’ve always worked though. The part that I think a lot of people may not realize too is there’s certain character traits that you know, for any women who woman who’s listening who’s thinking about divorce or considering divorce are in the middle of divorce. Just remember that the person who is managing the home all day, if you’re a stay at home, who is managing the accounting inside the family and managing the marital things you work, you know, so this fear of Oh no, will I be able to work? Will I be able to manage it? Caroline, you always worked. You worked within the relationship and outside of it.

Caroline:

But I also do think a lot of women need to pull their socks up about it, because I had a lot of divorced women come to me and because they knew I do employ a lot of women I always have. And they’d be like, oh, you know, I’ve been divorced for a few years. I’d love a job. It’d be great. I’ve got kids, though. So if I could come at 10 and leave at three.

Nicole:

Yeah, no. And I’m like, No, I run a business here.

Caroline:
Yes. And I have kids. I have three kids. So don’t tell me you have kids. You know, I also work 15 hour days, 16 hour days, that’s what you have to do. Why am I paying for you to have time with your child? I don’t get that. Yes, but I am teaching my children that nothing good comes easy. 

Nicole:

That’s right, work ethic.

Caroline:
You have to have a work ethic. And you know, in today’s world, that is, you know, going away.

Nicole:

It’s few and far between the idea that things are going to be handed to you is you know, truly, honestly, it’s almost publicized, you know, where it’s like a marry rich and get divorce and little do you know, there are so many people who get divorced and just truly you have to work.

Caroline:
Not even that, it’s a side hustle things I watch every day on Instagram, all you need to do is start a dropship business for $10.

Nicole:

And you’ll have a six figure business in four days. And it’s like, honestly, the only way to make those types of funds quickly, you better have done the work before I always you know talk about that, especially with a lot of my clients being higher profile that yeah, you know, we can capitalize on the thing you’ve built over a decade, you know, it’s not about, well just start something from scratch and it’ll be wildly successful.

Caroline:

Brands are built on trust. Yeah, and the thing is today, you know, with Instagram, everyone has a certain amount of fame. Sure. Right. And everybody’s easily found and you can connect with anybody so it’s not like before where you know actors and TV personalities were the famous people. Now you have all the Instagramers right? So the world is extremely competitive. You have a you know, you have an 11 year old worth 24 million.

Nicole:
And all they do is open toys.

Caroline:
And then so you know you need to stand out and it is not that easy. You know it’s half a percent it is you can hit the jackpot, but it’s gambling in that way. So you know, you need to have the ethic you need to have the will willpower, and you need to have the consistency and that consistency is key. And I don’t care what that looks like showing up every day. And I have done that my whole life. I showed up every day. When I was pregnant, when I was sick, you know, I went to work. And I understand the office life isn’t what it used to be. But you don’t have to do that. But you know, even if you’re working at home, doing your dropshipping you’re gonna show up, you’ve got to show up, and you’re gonna start employing people. Yep. And you’re gonna have you know, responsibilities. And it’s just, there is no lazy way to make money.

Nicole:
Yes there is no lazy way to make money. And I think that what you’re describing is exactly what I’m always trying to send home, which is, look, work ethic is a one thing that is, can’t be taken from you, I don’t care if you grew up. So I have a very different background from you, you know, I grew up with the irony is also that people think things are handed to you. My father didn’t have anything to hand to me, and your father chose not to hand anything to you, you know, so either way, starting from the place of we started with nothing, you know?

Caroline:

I always say the only thing my dad’s gonna leave me is a bill. Right? <laughs>

Nicole:

My father absolutely left me debt. I was like, thank you so much for the inheritance of debt. But that is so true. And it’s one of those things where, you know, one thing that I did have though, and I do have is work ethic. It’s up to me to decide if I can outpace the person next to me, you know, and if I can go just a little further and a little longer and a little harder, I’m gonna get what they’re not going to get. So all of that I think is so evident in the fact that you have always worked and you have built so much, and we’ll get more to what you built in a moment. But I do want to just kind of wrap up this piece about love. So you have a new relationship. And you know that, I mean, when I tell you, it’s inspirational to me, because you talk about your partner now, the way that I feel about my partner, but I’m in the newer phases of it, and you still have that glow. Like you still grin, you still smile, you’re still happy about it. And it’s just I’m like, oh, please let this be me. Please let me be Caroline in like however many years.

Caroline:
I see, you know, I see you on Instagram with him. And you look like that, like, you look like you rush home to him.

Nicole:

I do. I do. I mean, like, and it’s and I think that maybe you’ll be able to echo this too. But when I’m not with him, I’m happy because I love me, you know, but I also can’t wait, like, I love doing this podcast. Because it’s great to hang out with you. But also, if I was home with him, that’d be awesome. You know, if he was here, that’d be great. You know?

Caroline:

Well, that’s what I always say, you know, I do push them out the door sometimes and say a couple of hours on my own is good for me. I need that. And then I really miss him by the at the end. But that is you know, something coming with younger men, I think is that they are so much more open, this generation with their feelings and showing us.

Nicole:
Oh, yeah so empathetic. Which I love that just, which is a beautiful thing, because it also speaks to the women that are raising these men now you know that they’re not having the same, they’re not passing on the same generational trauma or expectations of men. You know, I mean, my guy is a cuddler and expressive and crying to the point where sometimes I’m kind of like, okay, like, I gotta balance it out.

Caroline:
But I’m like, You’re crying again, every time I’m about half a face lift people out there. And every time I talk about it, he burst into tears.

Nicole:
Oh, yes. Like, I just, everything needs to be okay.

Caroline:
It’s gonna be the, like, I’m already like no, I’m not gonna look good when I come out, but he’s gonna be a disaster.

Nicole:
Just so worried. But it’s also it’s so nice to be cared for and loved in that way. It’s such a blessing. So knowing that, and this is the big thing I want to ask you. So knowing that you are in a relationship with someone who right away, you know, you knew it would be an issue. I mean, there comes a point when you’re a public figure where you have to actually decide, what am I going to share? What am I not going to share? You know, because this person is a part of my life and I love them. And I could not imagine a path forward without discussing that they’re here, you know, how did you decide that knowing it would be conversation?

Caroline:
Look, before I was with Sergio. Well, when I was with Sergio and I, I think I told you he lied. He said he was 31, just got down to 24. Like, oh, my God. And I was 43. And I was like, there’s no way this can work. So I started googling May to December relationships. Of course, you can find a million the other way, not this way, of course. And I was like, oh my god, it hasn’t worked for anyone, literally.

Nicole:
It is bound to fail.

Caroline:

Like, I’m like, it cannot happen. So then I was like, you know you to him. You know, he was like Romeo and Juliet. Right? So we were destined to be together. So I was like, Okay, you need to come and meet my kids, but you’re just my friend. You need to see what 43 and kids looks like, you know, you need to see the house.

Nicole:
This is soo me. I waited because I was like, Okay, I’m into you. But I waited almost a year before he met my kids because I also was like, you have to see me as a mom, for us to even know if this is going to work.

Caroline:
Cus if not you’re living a fantasy.

Nicole:
And the fantasy was fun. Right. It was great. All of us. It was great. Like for a while I was like look at me with this young hot tender something. You know, like this is wonderful. But then it was Like, okay, but for real, I’m in love with you. So now, we need to figure this out. Yeah. And how did that? I mean, so you go through all the steps, you know, of sort of, I’m not gonna mess this thing up, because I think it’s something real.

Caroline:

Well I broke up with him about 36 times.

Nicole:

But I’m still not gonna mess it up, like, I’m gonna keep coming back because they know better.

Caroline:

But then I’m like, why am I not giving him a chance? My ex-husband could have left me, you know, because I’m old. Now we’re having a great time. Why isn’t right now enough?

Nicole:
And just be happy. Just be happy at this moment. Yeah.

Caroline:
And then I’m like, it doesn’t matter if he leaves in five months.

Nicole:
That’s right. So what, at least I’m happy for this season. And you know, right now, so knowing that when it came time to end, the thing about is that people may not realize is like, Caroline has this era of like, I don’t care. You don’t I mean, and I don’t know if this can be blamed on wisdom, or just who you are at your core. But there is a little bit of an era of, you’re gonna get what you’re gonna get. And this is who I am, which is, I think, is incredible. And I think it’s what people may label as ice cream, but it’s just confidence. You know.

Caroline:

It’s confidence. And I think, you know, again, it’s just knowing that you can do everything because, you know, I looked at it people like, well, you’re leaving a stable relationship for a 24 year old. University, ya know what I mean? Like, look at your life, how’s he going to do it? You know, you’re gonna have to pay for everything. And you know, that’s the number one question: how do you do finances with a younger guy? And it’s like, first of all, none of your business.

Nicole:

Oh, so good. pause on that. First of all, none of your business.

Caroline:

Do I come into your house and ask what your husband pays for? Why are you so concerned with how this happened? Yes. And, you know, on the second part, I mean, obviously, if I wasn’t more successful than him, 20 years older, what is wrong with me?

Nicole:
What is so interesting, because what you said, so I don’t have as much of a distance, but I do have I think we’re about six years apart ish. And but the six years we feel now because I’m in my 40s. And he’s in his early 30s, that phase of life is so different. So early 30s is like just starting entrepreneurship. Yeah. So taking a risk. I’m like, Oh, I’m moving into a stable place. I’m settled.

Caroline:
Which is why they like you.

Nicole:

Which is why they like us, because also he’s dated 20 somethings. And he’s like, no,

Caroline:

It’s not the money, by the way. You think that if they want you because you’re stable with money? Okay. I don’t give him a credit card and an allowance.

Nicole:
Yes, he is not my eldest child. That is not paid. That’s not how it works.

Caroline:
What we mean by stable is that we know who we are, yes. And we’re not looking.

Nicole:
No, no games. And I think that that’s the part that I love hearing about is that when people are asking, well, who does the money? And how do you handle the relate to all these things? It’s like, look, it’s actually a situation of, you know, yes, I may have certain responsibilities, but I also came in with those things. And I’m not looking for someone to take care of me. And guess what I never was. I never was looking for a relationship for someone who was just going to pay my bills.

Caroline:
I have three kids and they have a father.

Nicole:
Right, you know, and and also, they have a mother, you know, if Sergio wasn’t around, you would still be doing things you’re doing anyway.

Caroline:

Why should he pay for a five bedroom house? Right? When there’s one of him and four of us?

Nicole:
That’s right. And if it was just two of you, we get a cute little condo.

Caroline:
A totally different life. You know, I can only say when you work it out, work it out, like you know, sit down and be okay with what is okay. It’s so good. And I think that that is really something that you just choose the person not the you know, financials, and a lot of women choose financial.

Nicole:

And I think so many people don’t realize that that is maturity. That a lot of us who are embracing our second relationships, our second chancers, the first time around, we were looking for someone who might have fit on paper, you know, and even if an element of love was involved in that, you know, as we learned about ourselves, we’re like, you know what, I don’t even care about what’s on paper anymore. I care about the person 100%. And it’s so beautiful to see it. 

Now I do want to know what it’s like because this is something that I’m coming off of tour for my book on, Nothing is Missing. Thank you all for picking up a copy. It’s a New York Times bestseller. We’re so grateful to you, right, thank you so much. But you know, I brought my guy on tour. And can I just tell you Caroline like I just want to let you know some of this was inspired by you because you and Sergio go everywhere together. You do everything together. He is so supportive of you. And I know that you in turn are supportive him because I’ve seen you just throw him a heck of a birthday bash. And it was so cute to watch you kind of stand back and let him have all this shine and love and it’s just, it was so familiar to me.

So I brought my guy on tour for the first time. This is his first time working with me. I was terrified. I was terrified. I was like, you know, how’s he going to adjust to me in boss mode? Is he going to know sort of when to step back and when to speak up? And I just didn’t know how that would go and it went amazingly. Like I mean because if you pick the person they fit in everywhere else too you know, so you work with Sergio all the time.

Caroline:
I had never done that, like my ex husband and I would have killed each other. And we actually I had a big business back then. And he wanted to like move into my business. And I said only if we take different cars to work, right? And we go to a different office.

Nicole:

Basically, so it’s a no. <laughs>

Caroline:

And just because I knew he would irritate me and tell me he could do it better. And I’ve seen that happen with girlfriends, when they hit a certain point, the business does better than the husband, the husband moves in, takes over the wife gets thrown out. Yep, not happening. So you know, I’ve always been terrified of that. My work has always been my haven. And I’m very bossy at work. And I know, I know how I like it done.

Nicole:
Yep.

Caroline:
So I was not that keen on having Sergio do it with me at the beginning. But then he’d moved all the way across the world. He didn’t know anyone, he just come there. And he’s better at the bits that I can’t do. So I was like, why am I going to hire someone to do what he’s doing anyway, and building for me, and then I’m like, I just have to like, give into it.

Nicole:

And it’s still in alignment with what you always said, which was you have your area, and I have mine.

Caroline:

And that’s key. So I think I and at the end of the day, I think the age difference actually helps. Because when I do say I want it like this, he actually does step back. He may not agree with it, right? But he does, he lets me win.

Nicole:
But that’s the foundation of respect within the relationship. Yes, that transcends into the workplace. So you two are also starting new things. You know, I should say you’re starting new things and Sergio, of course, is very much a part of it. So let’s talk a little bit about that because I think that you’re known for starting lots of brands, working with lots of brands, but Bust the Label, is the newest thing that you have going on. And I think it’s something that all of us should get really excited about. So tell us more about it.

Caroline:

I mean Bust the Label, the name comes from because you know, you don’t fit in a box, we don’t fit in a box. And I think today’s world, you know, I want to feel good from the inside out. Yes. You know, and this is actually Sergio’s baby as well, because, you know, he was his idea to do this with me because he felt like, obviously, he wants me to live longer. And he wants me to feel great course. And you know, he’s turned me from a partying nightmare into a health freak where we get off and we trade and I don’t drink as much alcohol.

Nicole:

Well he’s an athlete. I think that you know, and it’s so funny because we talk obviously, it’s my time here with you. But Sergio had a whole life and a whole career and has all of his stuff he’s doing as like an athlete, which my guy is a musician and a producer. You know, like we’re with these younger guys who very much have their thing.

Caroline:

They’re not lazy.

Nicole:
Oh, absolutely.

Caroline:
So he was in sports. So this is a natural progression for us. You know, Buster labels a wellness brand. And we’re also doing gratitude journals. These are things we truly believe and yes, yes. The things that bother me. So I’ve suffered with gut problems and gut health most of my life. So we did probiotics. And then you know, I moved to Dubai, I’m 47. The water is incredibly hard. So we’ve done like, you know, hair and nail pills and things like this and ashwaganda because I have a very stressful life.

Nicole:

Yes. Highly stressful. Yes. It’s like using all these natural…

Caroline:
Yes everything’s natural and vegan and kosher and halal because we’re in the Middle East as well. And of course, and they’re made here in the States. So which is great, because I wanted to have really, really natural ingredients that everyone could kind of get behind. Yes, absolutely. There’s no point taking pills unless they make you feel good.

Nicole:
Yeah, they actually work.

Caroline:
Yeah, exactly. And I do this every single day. So I’ve been doing this for years anyway. And we’re big smoothie drinkers and all of this kind of stuff every morning. So I love it. The next thing I want to do is my greens and collagens.

Nicole:

Oh, I love that I love all of this, especially because, again, what I think is beautiful about this conversation is I really hope for my audience, so my audience we’re talking regular moms, a lot of us have younger babies, you know, and we always like to demystify sort of what we see and a lot of times when you look at the Bravo celebrities and these beautiful women who have these what appear to be just gorgeous lives, you know, and you do have a gorgeous life, but I love hearing that it’s like, but I take my vitamins, you know, and I’m kind to my partner and I’m still a mom who shows up every day and has this house of kids you know, your life is crazy.

Caroline:
It’s crazy. And it’s not easy to look and feel your best and we thought that’s all we want as women is to look and feel as best for as long as we can. And I actually feel better today than I did in my 30s Because I’m not drinking as much. I’m not smoking as much, I’m in fact I’m not even smoking. And you know I don’t vape. I don’t do anything right now. So I’m really enjoying this part of my life and you know if you can just add to it and feel good just from like as simple gumby everyday as why wouldn’t you do that go you know, it’s just, it’s only wellness is everything today and then you can do more. You can If you’re younger, you’re younger man, you can feel vibrant at 47 we used to be old.

Nicole:

Yes. You know, right at 40 People used to say you’re old and I’m like, I don’t believe it.

Caroline:

Yes. I can give some 30 year olds a run for their money.

Nicole:

You absolutely could give some 25 year olds a run for their money. You give me a run for my money. I’m over here like I’m getting dressed today because there’s no way I’m showing up in sweats next to Carolina Stanbury. That’s right. Like, I’m in sweats. <laughs>.

Caroline:
I’m in sweats.

Nicole:
And you make it look good. And I love hearing that, you know, again, and that sort of demystification of things, which is your follow Caroline, she’s so real. It’s the fact that we see this juxtaposition of this glamorous life, but you’re like, look, I drink my water, I, my my business, I have my good, kind, attractive man, and I take my vitamins. And that is available to all

Caroline:

And I practice gratitude. So I’ve done a gratitude journal, and I do it every morning with my vision boards, which we talked about. And I tell you, I don’t know. I mean, obviously, I’m sort of he just did an interview with a number one manifestation. Oh, yes. So Rita, sue her, right? Yes, she’s really amazing. We’ve got on like a house on fire. We speak every day. Wow. And I’ve been doing that I told you, I feel like I manifested my life with Sergio. I’ve definitely seen it before. I’m big in that. And I do when I made this journal, it’s just it’s carry with you that you can just write your goals for the day. It’s not magic, but it works.

Nicole:

It puts things at the forefront. I mean, I think that one of the things that I always talk about with my guys, keeping things top of mind, yeah, and whatever you keep top of mind will manifest into your life, it will show up. So if it’s negativity, if it is worry, if it is sickness, were even careful about what we say very you know about our body, because whatever it is, a top of mine will show up, you know, and so if you keep goodness, if you keep gratitude, especially if the kids can hear you, yeah, then they do it too. And it’s so powerful.

Caroline:

100% and I think that comes with age, just learning, you know, just like being grateful for the air we breathe, frankly, you know, with everything going on in the world, we live amazing lives. We’re so fortunate, so fortunate, and I think you know that it’s it’s, it’s, it sounds a bit woowoo it’s not woowoo. It just works. You don’t have to be airy fairy. I’m not into sort of sitting, you know, I when I’m sitting around humming all day.

Nicole:

I’m not knocking that for the people that do but the truth is, it’s free to have gratitude. Yeah, you know, so many people get caught up in all the different gimmicks and things don’t what they don’t have, instead of focusing on okay, what do you have? Well, it’s free to it’s free and easy to take your vitamins and take care of your body. Yeah, it is free and easy to choose to have people in your life that love you well, the way you want to be loved. It’s free and easy to be thankful for what you have. And if you notice, everyone we chat to hear no matter where their status, no matter what they look like, no matter what they’ve accomplished, we are all saying the same thing.

Caroline:
At the same sort of time in our lives. So there has to be something to it. You know, I think the not having competition with each other, helping each other, you know it doesn’t take away from you, it adds to you. That’s why I started, you know, talking to all these women and trying to help women through this time, because women are inherently can be very jealous of each other or see somebody else and want their life. And if you come from a place of I want that I want to take that from the other woman, then you know, you block yourself.

Nicole:
It’s scarcity driven. It’s acting as if there’s only one. Yeah. And there isn’t, you know, and what’s so interesting that I’ve learned particularly as I’ve gotten older and spoken to more people, it’s that, gosh, your life is beautiful. I mean, I look at your bedsheets and I’m like, Oh, those look like some good bed sheets. But I also look at your life. And I say, but you know, do I want to move to Dubai? Do I want to have to you don’t want to have everything that the other person has, when I see some of the things and I’m just going to be really transparent that you have survived in terms of what people have said about you, and the assumptions they’ve made. And I say this personally knowing how absolutely categorically wrong, I mean, some people have said outright lies about you. And you are still standing. I do not envy that.

Caroline:
I think maybe that was it used to hurt. But having done Now going on to reality TV, I think you have to grow a rhino’s skin.

Nicole:
Oh, you do really do.

Caroline:
And you know, everyone feels that they have a right to do that. And and you know, also I think it scares people that if it’s just down to hard work.

Nicole:
Then they have to confront in their own life, you know, like, well, if she manages to look this beautiful, and have all these things, and all these things aren’t true. Then what does that mean about who I am and what’s expected of me and I’m just saying that like, you know, people can look at your life, but they also will cleverly ignore all that you’ve had to go through and it’s like, you know, if you want this, you’ve got to get this and you’ve got to learn how to build the tough skin too.

Caroline:

I also don’t talk about me, you know, I talk about it in my talks and things like that. And the people that sort of think of me this way are mostly people that haven’t bothered to listen to my podcast.

Nicole:
Always. People, always people who are cleverly and conveniently thinking they’re talking about something you haven’t addressed.

Caroline:

And you know what’s funny? I mean, it even happened with the girls on my show, because I’m like, you know, they would come to these assumptions about me and you know, the first season and I’m like, why don’t you go and listen to my podcast? Listen to my podcast and come back.

Nicole:

This isn’t news. I’ve already said something.

Caroline:
Yes, and you know, but at the end of the day, there was always going to people want to learn about you and people that don’t and, you know, at my age now I’m very comfortable with, as my circle gets smaller. And you know, like, the old me would have landed in LA. And you know, I was meant to go to the Hollywood party, that everyone was at. Sergio was not quite over it. Because Alexander ambrosio was there.

Nicole:

Oh I’m so sorry, that happened to you Sergio. His birthday just came up. What type of wife are you, he only wanted one thing. <laughs>

Caroline:

But he’ll get over it. They’ll be fine. But the old me would have like, got off the plane, went straight into it. The new me is like, yeah, you know, like next year, there’s always another. There’s always another party. I’m like, it’s okay. We didn’t see Justin Bieber in his snorkeling suit. Right.

Nicole:

And also, there’s so much fun than just sitting at home and let’s get under the covers and order some room service. And yeah, and also showing up your best to things. You know, I have said no to amazing events. I say all this like I don’t have going on Netflix event later today. But I say no to things all the time so that I have energy to do things later because it’s worthwhile.

Caroline:
I am about to walk into what I call which is Bravo Con. I mean, it was like a zoo.

Nicole:

I don’t know how and I have a couple friends who are doing it. I don’t know how and why you would like it is so taxing. I mean it is day after day. It’s now it’s I think, and you can tell me if I’m wrong. I think part of it is because people love to meet you and it’s so good when they get that time and it’s so nice to meet people.

Caroline:
It connects you. So I do like to do it. You saw I brought everyone from Dubai with me because I don’t like changing.

Nicole:
Oh, me neither. Well, that’s the other part too is when you’re wherever you are like you gorgeous and stunning and beautiful. People don’t recognize that you delegate all of that. You’re like I know you don’t understand real me is at home with no makeup, my glasses and sweats.

Caroline:

I can’t do it. I don’t know how to do it. I’m terrible. But you know, they’re amazing. So you know, I am not good at like having people or new people around me. So I brought everyone with me. But you know, that’s just my one princess moment.

Nicole:

But you’re allowed to have that, you’re allowed to have it.

Caroline:

But you know that Bravo Con is a marathon, we we start early in the morning, you know, 8am or whatever out? And I’m doing you know what? I have a slide, please. Yeah, till 1112 At night, and then there’s, you know, and you have to be on form. So do I need to go out here? No, I’ve been in bed every night by 7:30. And I’m happy and I feel fresh. And then I’m, you know, I’m going to New York afterwards. And I come back, this is always a marathon. But I have to say, since I’m here, everybody is so kind and you know, so happy to see you. And like it’s nice.

Nicole:

Yeah, as well. And it also, again, speaks to your character. I think that, you know, one of the things that I’ve really taken from our conversation, I hope everyone hears is you don’t live a life of scarcity. And that scarcity doesn’t just extend to can I make my own money? Can I find the love that I want? But it also extends to, I’m not missing out on an opportunity. I say no to because if I’m saying yes to it just because of a label that I think I fit into, then you know, I’m really missing the whole point.

Caroline:

Well, you were the one that made me go on and do my courses now. So I was like I was you know, I was thinking about it. And I’ve always wanted to work with women.

Nicole:
Oh, yes.

Caroline:
And then you were like getting what are you waiting? What are you waiting for?

Nicole:

And when I tell you, I came away from that conversation saying, oh my gosh, you have to be so careful what you say to certain people, because Caroline’s a type where if you say something, five minutes later, it is done. It is executed. She is going for it. She’s like I was gonna do it anyways, here’s what it is. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like, I have to walk her through this thing. I was like, What was I thinking because she’s a doer. You gotta be careful what you put into the hands of doers, because they will build it 10 times more.

Caroline:

Yeah, no, I mean, I still want you to come to Dubai. But you know, I’ve always wanted to and just talking to these women, because so many women have the power but they’re just stuck at the first step.

Nicole:
Yes. And you know, and that is so much of it is once you take that first step, it tells you what you’re capable of every and then you take the next step and the next step. And above all else, always look to women like Caroline where you can say look, she has had a very publicly shared her highs, her lows, her difficulties, and her triumphs and she’s still here. So every single thing she has she’s trying to say you can do it too.

Caroline:

100% and I think that’s really important. I told you I spent my 43rd birthday in the Queen’s court sort of as I said, either going bankrupt or he was. So no I don’t sit on this giant pot of money, a tray that you know, I work every month to make this life happen. And you know, I manifested that house. I sold, I’ve still got my you know, house in the UK which is just you know, it’s it’s everything is manifested and sort of built by me and nothing came easily. And I am working every day with Sergio to get this right for the rest of my life so that I can live this life for the rest of my life.

Nicole:

And also leave a legacy I think that there’s something really to be said for the fact that you’re building something you know Bust the Label is about empowering others it’s saying look everything I’ve learned and everything you don’t.

Caroline:

Yes, don’t listen to society Yes. And that’s what Bust the Label is. Bust the Label is for women who you know want to do like this. They want to do whatever they want. Yes, that’s key. That’s whatever you want. When people go no but society tells you who is society name name that people were looking up to. I don’t understand.

Nicole:

And are they worth us listening to? Consider the source. Oh, so good. I listen, y’all, all of this and more available on uncut and uncensored her podcast you have to listen to it. Tell us where else can we find out more about you? Where can we get on this bus the label train. I know that it’s about to launch in a very big way and I mean if you guys have ever seen Kim Kardashian launches, if you’ve ever seen the way things sell out, all I can tell you is get on this email list today so that you do not miss your opportunity. So tell us more about it.

Caroline:

www.BusttheLabel.com and Caroline Stanbury on Instagram and bust the label on Instagram too.

Nicole:

Oh i love it i you all you will see me in Dubai. You will see me busting the label myself because I still working on my boxes. Yeah and I’m just so glad that you were able to be here and we could connect.

Caroline:
Thank you for having me. It’s been amazing.

Nicole:

Y’all, friends, okay, so I am squeezing in this quick chat because I could not let another week go by without letting you know, major news, something that we all did together that I am crazy excited about.

So if you’ve been keeping up on social media, at Nicole Walters, on Instagram, on Facebook, all over, you know that I have been in the process of sharing everything about my new memoir that just hit shelves two weeks ago. It’s crazy to believe it’s even been that long already, on October 10, of 2023. The book is called Nothing is Missing, a memoir of living boldly. And it finally is in everyone’s hands. And all this season I’ve been talking about starting over, fresh starts and just everything that’s been going on in my life, whether it is starting over from my divorce or reconfiguring how I look at my business, to my relationship, all the things.

And this book is my fresh start manual, I was taking you back. So you could see from the beginning, growing up all the way forward to why I am here today and what I’ve learned, and how you can pull those learnings into your own life. And what’s been amazing is over the past two weeks, I’ve had an opportunity to meet, in real life, so many of you. We’ve been to New York, DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles, and everywhere in between because that, you know, I was meeting y’all at the baggage claim, luggage carousel, like hugs real life everywhere. And it’s just been a dream, a dream. It’s part of why I’m sharing with you right now that this dream has been more than I could have wished for.

I asked all of you if you would help me by, whether it was grabbing a copy of this book for yourself, or grabbing one for you and a friend or as a gift, or inviting me to your book clubs or your churches. And the way that you showed up was just remarkable. And it was so remarkable, that I’m really proud to share that we are New York Times Best Sellers. With all the work, with all the… I’m actually trying not to cry. It’s so weird, because y’all this news is only like 10 days old. It’s like not even, it’s so… Oh, it’s like it’s 10 days old. And I’ve wanted to tell you first I mean, I’ve shared a little, you know, with my online squad. So some of you already saw this and you know, an email with the internet aunties, but it’s special to come to you and tell you now that we did! You know, we did it

The thing that I talked about before all of this started where I said, it was so important for me to be able to get out here and say that regular people can do big things, too because that’s what this book is about. That’s what our times here are about, that you can be regular, you know, you can be a mom with your babies who likes cheese and shopping at Target. And you don’t have to live a crazy sensational life, you don’t have to be so vulnerable to the point of being sensational, you know, you don’t have to put out all your junk and be gross, you don’t have to reveal every single detail about yourself in the most scandalous way. You literally can just speak your truth about your life, share your story. So respect the story of the people in your life, like, you know, our little internet tinies and my was-band and you know, my parents, and you know, all the people who inspired me, you can still share all of that, and be impactful. And make a difference. And change lives and honor yourself and honor God. And I’m just so thankful because you all met me in this moment. And because of that, we hit number nine on one of the hardest lists to hit, which is the advice/how to miscellaneous self help category, which is very popular, and it actually is only has like 10 spots out of you know, most of them have 15.

And when I tell you, truth moment, you know where we’re at, now we’re gonna get into the goods of it. I was being prepared by my team to not hit this list. Like, and I’ve been waiting to talk to you about this, I was being prepared, you know, everyone was trying to like cushion my expectations. They were all saying, you know, Nicole, it’s a very hard list to hit. And, you know, you’re doing really well with the numbers that are coming in but I just want you to also know that, you know, this doesn’t happen for a lot of new authors. And this doesn’t happen, you know, for memoirs, and this isn’t something that happens very often and, you know, it’s a very rare an unlikely thing and we just want you to know that we’re all rooting for you, you know, but we just want you to manage your expectations and I think and I’m just gonna Just a truth moment with with you all my friends here, part of that was because I was speaking it into existence. And so where y’all.

I mean, when I tell you every time I would do an interview or anything, I would say, look, this book is a future New York Times bestseller, not just because I say so but because God said so and because my internet Auntie besties have said so. We are collectively standing in agreement that this is what this is going to do. And I don’t need to have 4 million followers. I have the followers that count. I have the people that matter. These are my day ones. We’ve known each other for 10 years. I show up for them, they show up for me, like it is a thing we are in this together. And y’all when I tell you I kept trying to share this with everyone like I would tell them by team like, listen, I know how y’all are feeling. But I want to let you know that my people move differently. These are the people who helped me pick out potty seats for my babies. These are the people who when they saw I was going through my divorce transition, literally prayed over me sent me messages saying Nicole, we don’t know what all it is, but know that we are praying for you and covering you and knowing that change is going to come and we are excited to see you breakthrough. And these are the people that send me wedding invitations. And I send wedding gifts too. And that, you know, I have helped cheer their kids through nursing school and I have paid for summer camp. Like we have a relationship I get back to school pictures. Like this is not just a book for the general masses that I’ve never met before. Although I have to say it’s been really incredible to see people who have never known about our thing here, in our community, you know, like, it’s been so incredible to invite them into the fold. So if you’re a newbie, and you’re now in the fold, like welcome, welcome, welcome, because you are in on something great. Like, truly, we are a community that shows up for each other and has each other’s back through thick and thin. And through the changes and the ebbs and flows of life and our growth. We are literally here growing together.

And so when I said this, that, you know, they’re just kind of like Ah huh. Because typically, even the fancy people, you know, who have like, I mean, just to let you know, just a little side note, friends, we didn’t just hit the New York Times list like that’s the big fancy pants one that everyone talks about, we hit every list. I just wanna be really clear to let you know about that. Every single major list that’s out there, USA Today, Wall Street Journal, Publishers Weekly, Amazon Best Seller, book list, every single major list we charted on in the top 10, I believe, and definitely, if not the top 50. We made every single list. We were above people like Reba McIntyre. Do you know what I mean? Like we hit every list. And I say we because truly, it wasn’t me it was our community. Like we did this. And that’s how I’ve been saying it. I’m like y’all, do you understand? Do you understand what we can do? Do you see what we can do as a community? I just want you to sit in that with me and recognize what is possible when we mobilize the love, the support, the knowledge and the care of the people who’ve been with us since day one.

And I’m just so grateful. I’m so grateful for you. Because this is as meaningful, if not maybe a smidge less meaningful than you helping me pick out the potty seat. I just know that we are really in it together. And we are just one big family. And I’m so grateful. And I also want to tell you about a special moment that happened on the tour. So the very first tour stop that we did was in New York City. And the reason this was the first tour stop was we also had press that day. So on that day we did the Sherri Shepherd Show, which if you caught that episode, it was so fun. And if you missed it, it’s on Instagram now. But we did the Sherri Shepherd show and it was just a bundle of laughs and I shared my five tips to live boldly. Really great, definite must watch. We also did, CBS Morning with Gayle King, who as you all know, Gayle is Oprah’s on paper best friend, like historical record. But we also know if you’ve kept up with me on Instagram my relationship with Oprah. And you know, I fondly call her bread fan. If you are new around here, please head over there. You’ve got to catch up. This is a years long thing. But you know Oprah was not present in that interview for many reasons. If you watch it, I know some of you right now are cackling in the car. Because you know about the Oprah thing and the joke.

But needless to say we had an interview with Gayle and that was incredible. And it was so so fun. Both our offline conversation and our on screen conversation. But after all of that, I got to do the real fun which was, we headed over to Barnes and Noble Tribeca. And I got to sit with my dear incredible, great friend Seth Godin, who is, you know, multiple, like, he’s like 18 Times New York Times bestseller like I mean, he’s Jay Z’s favorite marketer, right? Like he is just a genius in this industry and, and he was just so generous. He entertained, you know, and educated and just absolutely helped me bring the best out and I couldn’t have felt safer chatting with him in front of all of you. And I was so grateful to have him in front of all of you too, because I wanted you to meet them, you know, if you didn’t already know him, but he got to meet all of you.

And when I say what a special night this was, first and foremost, I’m going to skip to the end to tell you a little bit how it went, we shut that place down. I have never been in a Barnes and Noble until after closing, we shut that place down. They were literally pulling the grates down behind us. And, and it was just beyond because one of the things that happened there that everyone was remarking on that they said is unique to us, right? This is just a Nicole Walters podcast, crew, internet, aunties, you know, internet besties it is just us. Typically, whenever fancy pants people, which clearly we’re not fancy pants, fancy pants, people do these events. Usually you won’t see the people in attendance talking to each other. It’ll usually be that they come to these events, you know, to kind of like shine a light on the person on stage, then they grab their books and they go and that’s not a community, right? They might be fans, you know, they might be people who are like, you know, a big readers if you will, but oh no, they were not ready on every single one of our stops, starting with New York City was literally like a meet and greet reunion hanging out, best friends eating cheese.

I literally got gifts of cheese on this tour. I spent every single evening eating cheese because not only do you understand me, but you love me. Okay, it was so good. So at New York City, you know, at every stop, I got to see you. I got to meet some of my internet nieces and nephews, which was incredible. You know, catch up with you, see how you’re doing, give you hugs in person, we had T shirts, and we had signs and we had, I mean, it literally was just like, the phrase that I use often. And that I’ve said on this tour, so many times about how wonderful it was, was, there’s one word that struck me when I walked into that room, every single room. And it was finally, finally, we get to be together.

Finally, we get to just take everything off and get real, the conversations we had in that room. Some of them echoed what was in the book, but a lot of them were just us talking about what we’ve been through and seeing the journey and giving thanks and being grateful. And so many of you are sharing so openly and vulnerably you know, what you’d experience, what brought us together. You know, and there were times where I would say in the room, you know, how many of us have talked before whether it was in real life or over the DMs or you know, on an impromptu phone call or whatever. When I tell you, every single time every hand would go up in that room, you know, it just reminded me that at the very beginning of this business building journey, when I quit my nine to five job almost 10 years ago, and decided I was going to say yes to my purpose. One of the things that was said to me by many mentors was, this isn’t sustainable, that you should not try to connect with people, you know, so personally. That being able to chat with people in the DMs and it’s true, y’all I’m gonna be very clear. I overcommit myself, I’m the type of person who is like, and some of y’all are nodding your heads because you’re like this too, which is why we get each other. But I will try to do all the things for all the people and be everywhere. And I am absolutely terrible about it, and I have to work on it. But when I tell you, I try to answer every comment and every DM and I get over 200 a day and I mean, I am in the bathroom, in the kitchen, in between meetings, in the elevator, you know waiting in line trying to chat and connect and talk to you and answer your questions and checking on babies and checking on test results and checking on college and checking on school and because I want to know how you’re doing and you guys do the same for me. I just want to say that too is like you guys are checking in on me too.

And it’s just been so nice, because when I walked into that room and I said finally, you know, it wasn’t just words on a screen, you know, or in an email or in a letter or note card. It was a face and the voice and warmth of a hug and littles that I’ve literally known from being carried, from being a thought, you know, to ages five and six and in school, and though I’m really trying not to lose it, it’s because the babies get me every time, you know. But when I tell you it was, I was like, I could exhale finally, because I was like, oh, we’re together.

And then seeing all of you chat with each other, you know about your check ins and your relationships and and find out that you guys have been having conversations externally, you know, that you are like, oh, yeah, we’ve always been in New York, it’s our first time getting together, and we’re going to dinner together after this. And it was just a dream. It was just a dream. And I’m here to let you know, the news. You know, because it is big news. You know, and one of the beautiful things about it is because it’s such big news, it also lets us know what we can do, and what is possible in the future but aside from it being big news, I’m also here to say thank you, you know, I’m here to say thank you.

And the thank you is because it hasn’t always been like this. You know, and I know that so many of you know this, but life looks so different now. It was so hard in the beginning. The person I was is not the person I am for so many reasons. I remember carrying a latent anger and sadness and heaviness, you know, and I’ve had to make so many changes in my life, as I worked hard and hustled and still try to show up and accomplish things and live a purposeful life and also prioritize my babies. And I think a lot of us can all relate to what it looks like. And I’m so grateful that the person I am now, what 15 years into entrepreneurship, is not who I was, in my first three years. It’s not who I wasn’t my first five years, heck, I’m not the person I was, four or five years ago, you know, when this divorce situation, you know, came into the mix.

And I just want to let you know that you’re entitled to change, and that you deserve growth. And you deserve to be loved. And you deserve to enter rooms of people who love you, and you deserve to enter them often. And all the work is worth it. You know, as long as it is work that is leading you in a forward moving way towards living even more in your truth than ever before. And you heard me talk about this at the top of the year. And if you’re new to this, I really encourage you to go back because being on the other side of this book journey, you heard me talk about the fear that I had, and what it would look like to share what I’ve shared. And, you know, even though I’m, you know, one of the words is often used as oh, she’s so vulnerable and authentic. And, you know, she was just so honest and truthful. And we’re all y’all like this book is 320 pages, it’s not everything. That’s like a page for a month of my life, right? So it’s not comprehensive. But you better believe I tried to keep it as forthright as I could, about what I knew when I did.

But it’s also my hope that in five years, I can add to this book or I can add to your life or that I have even more to share about the season I’m in right now. And it’s also my hope that when we meet again, with the next book, or the next moment or the next meet and greet or heck even when I come to meet and sign this book in person in your town because I am going to make it to Florida and I’m gonna make it to Northern California. And we’re gonna keep having these moments. And it’s my hope though, that the next time I see you, the way that you showed up this time that I’m able to tell you thank you in person and how much I deeply love and care about you. But also that in addition to finally, I can also say look at us. Look at how we’ve grown. Look at how we’ve changed. But let’s also honor the fact that even with all that growth change that nothing is missing. Thank you friend for the support. Nothing is Missing is available everywhere books are sold.

Nicole:

Friends, so you know that typically for our chats, it’s just me and it’s you cooking dinner, hanging out in your kitchen, being with the kids in the car, right to work. But occasionally, I like to invite someone in who I know is going to speak into, let me be honest, our lives.

And I have the opportunity to chat with someone who honestly I don’t know if everyone gets access to this level of knowledge, experience, and just genuine authentic warmth, wisdom. I’m here with Durana Elmi. She is the co-founder of Cymbiotika and I know a lot of you already know about Cymbiotika because back when I said I was looking to round out my supplement journey, the amount of people who slid into my DMs saying Cymbiotika is the way to go, was just overwhelming.

Well, because of that, you know, I love my research. I am so pleased to bring her in for this conversation. Now I just wanted to let you know that this is not a conversation strictly about supplements because you can go anywhere for that. You know who I am and you know how I love to honor our time together. When I have a powerful, strong, accomplished woman with a heck of a story across from me, I’m going to ask her how she got here. Because we all need the fuel to keep going so friends I’m so excited to welcome to Durana. Durana, thank you for being here.

Durana:

Thank you Nicole. You’re such a powerhouse yourself so oh such a privilege to be here to meet you. And I feel like I should be interviewing you. I could be learning a lot from what you do.

Nicole:

Oh my goodness and my angel she’s saying all this looking gorgeous, put together, hair curled right? And her kids, I bet you know where they are. I don’t know where mine are right now. Do you know what I mean? You are amazing.

Durana:
We could definitely be friends. I don’t know half the time, honestly. I’m like, one hour at a time. I can’t keep up with all life has to offer.

Nicole:

Yes. Oh, I get it. I get it. So before we dive into like all the work stuff in the stats, tell us about your babies. How old are they and what are their ages? All the good stuff?

Durana:
Yes. So I have two incredible daughters. Yasmine is 10 years old. Oh 10 going on to 40. She’s very, very mature. Truly my best friend. My second daughter, Ariana is eight and a half. And she’s probably about 33 right now. Her spirit is about 33 years old. Love, love being a mom. They have redefined what success means to me. They’ve given my life purpose and everything I do because of them and my incredible husband and my mother, has given me intention. Like I live with intention. It’s not just our company mantra, but everything is very intentional for me.

Nicole:

Oh, do y’all hear this? I told you, Durana is our people. Like she gets it because that is exactly how we all feel about our littles. You know if there is a reason to do the work we do. It’s because we’ve got these incredible legacies that we get the privilege of raising.

So all that being said, eight and 10. That is quite the energy. I’ve got an 11 year old and she turns 12 next week, I don’t know if she’s gonna make it. I’m telling you she’s driving me crazy. Like I’m telling she came out in a crop top and many shorts to go to sixth grade and it was an event. We had a conversation. How are you managing, having two littles knowing that you’ve got to get work done, you’ve got responsibilities. What’s it like momming every day?

Durana:

Well, at their birthday parties. I always have alcohol.

Nicole:

That’s right. That’s right. keeps us together. Listen, I went through a divorce. I’m telling you when people are like, do you drink? I’m like, I went through a divorce. Yes, I drink.

Durana:

That was honest. I always have some wine or champagne for the parents because I’m like, we have to be here together. Yeah, we’ll get through this.

Nicole:

Solidarity.

Durana:

So you know, it’s tough balance. When I was pre-kids, I was a corporate Gao and I did that really well. Then I had children and I was like, what is this? This is an absolute shit show. I don’t even I can’t even turn these kids off. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life, to be honest with you. After becoming a mother. My respect for moms went up a million folds, because I’m like, How do you do this? And, for me, to be honest, I first remind myself that I am completely imperfect. Every single day is not going to be how I plan it out to be. But I just tried to be the best version of myself.

And having two daughters who want to emulate everything that I do, I’m very cautious, most importantly, how I treat people. Because I think that if I can raise two daughters who are kind to themselves, in terms of how they speak of themselves, how they feel about themselves, and then they’re kind to the people around them, and they’re kind to the world, and they have the ability to think outside themselves, I believe that I can really make them rich, and the character that they’re going to be, and they’ll live a meaningful, purposeful life.

Nicole:

Oh, my goodness, y’all understand, we’re just at the beginning. I mean, like, so, so good, and so valuable. I think that’s something that comes up a lot. And I want to kind of call out what we’re hearing echoed from all the powerful ladies that we do chat with here. And we don’t chat with a lot, I really don’t say yes to a lot of interviews, because I do want to make sure that if I share someone with, you know, my community that I really understand their values and the product that they built, and you are a great example of that Durana.

And I think what you’ve shared here about giving yourself grace is something we all need to hear. We’re going to be imperfect, for sure. You know, and the idea about being present, you know, when you have a lot of things going on. So I want to ask you in a practical way, you know, I think that as moms like you were saying in corporate we think we have to do it all, you know, talk to me a little bit more about that. Do you have a team? Do you delegate? Have you learned how to, you know, have a support system? Or are you really doing it all like give us the real because you look good today you will seem put together you have this incredible business which is your fifth so what is the truth? You know, are you doing everything yourself?

Durana:

I think anyone that sits here or says that they do something all by themselves is full of shit.

Nicole:

PREACH. PREACH… Are y’all hearing that? It is normal to feel crazy because you’re not supposed to be doing it yourself.

Durana:

Yes. So I have an extraordinary team of women around me. So first off I don’t always look like this I got an amazing glam team. It is so hard. In college, I went to UCLA, I used to, I was a Mac girl so I know full blown how to do makeup. That’s what was like your skin, your skin is amazing. So now I’m at a place where I’m like so tired. My mom’s like for the love of God, you have all this makeup like put it on your face.

Nicole:
I need it.

Durana:
So I do, I have an amazing glam team that helps me with obviously hair and makeup. I had to get a personal trainer because it holds me accountable. And I’m not afraid to say that. When like on the weekends, I figure out different workouts that for me, I love tennis. So I found my love and passion in tennis that holds me accountable to go work out and I play tennis without realizing that I’m actually working out.

Nicole:

That’s actually really powerful. I hope you all are hearing that mom tips if you can find something you love to do, it’s both a treat, a stress reliever, and it can be exercise. That’s very good.

Durana:

And then on the work front, 70% of Cymbiotika are women. And I am incredibly proud of that. I love women. I shared with you earlier, I was born in Afghanistan. So my love for women comes from such a deep place because when I think about what the woman in Afghanistan are going through today, I’m reminded of how lucky and grateful that I am today, every day doing what I do wearing what I wear, I’m making the decisions that I make.

And so if I can pave the way and help support other women around me that I know that I’m really living a purposeful life. At work these women are smarter than me.

Nicole:
You’re so generous.

Durana:
I swear to God and so I love surrounding myself with women that enrich my thoughts, move my emotion and help me be a better person, help me think differently, help me show up not just to work but to everyone around me. So yes, I do have an amazing team of women around me. And I’ve got a husband who’s incredibly supportive and the truth is it’s not easy and I think we’re very very hard on ourselves because society makes you feel… First off you go look on social media right and social media…

Nicole:

Preach. Tell it, like everyone seems some people are eating pancakes in bed with their children and hosting whole photoshoots like, I can’t do it. Yeah, not real life.

Durana:

I feel like social media, it just really like it can trigger an insecurity in you. So for me, it’s like there’s a very fine balance. I will put a post, like a few and then I have to get off. I always detox from it, that’s good, because I don’t want it to consume my thoughts or control my narrative of how I feel like I should look and feel. And the truth is, you know, you, there’s so many beautiful women out there. And there’s so many levels of success. So if you go on social media, it almost makes you feel like you need to compare your life to other people. And the truth is, you only need to compare your life to yourself.

Nicole:

That’s so good. I mean, that is so powerful. I think that comparison is part of what can be so difficult. I mean, even when you listen to these podcasts, and you hear things like, well, I’ve got this team or I have this strong marriage. And it’s so easy for us to be inspired at the same time as we compare within. Where we’re like, well, maybe I can’t do it, because I don’t have a great partnership. Or maybe I can’t do it, because I don’t have a great team. But now I want to go back to the fact that you are from Afghanistan. I think that so many people here, this portion, start comparing, but they don’t understand that, you know, your chapter one did not look like this.

So they’re actually comparing it to something that isn’t really fair, because you’ve done the work to get here. So let’s go back as the child of immigrants, myself, both my parents from Ghana, West Africa, you know, I’m first generation. So it’s not lost on me the incredible privilege that I have to have the options I do as an American citizen. And I’m grateful for them, because I know that my future could look different. And it’s part of why I work so hard and I run so hard and why I share so big. And I see that in you as well.

So tell me a little bit about your background. I think it’s something we relate on. How do you think that having, you know, a background from Afghanistan inspires your work ethic and your appreciation for the life that you have?

Durana:

I was born in Afghanistan, I left when I was about three and a half months old. Obviously, I don’t remember Afghanistan. Unfortunately and fortunately, I’ve never been back. Unfortunately, because of the circumstances today I haven’t been back. But I would love to one day go. And that’s my roots, my culture, my bloodline, that’s where I am from. Today, I say, and I wholeheartedly mean this, I am so proud to be an Afghan American, because I’m very Americanized. But my mother has always taught me that in order to know where you’re going in life, you must always remember where you’ve come from.

Nicole:
Very good.

Durana:

And I’ve done a lot of philanthropy work in Afghanistan, I’ve built three schools there, my father was very strict growing up, because of the cultural and traditional differences and the vast between the American culture and an Afghan or Middle Eastern culture, very, very strict father. You won’t believe this but to the age of 12 to 18, I could never go out. I was like Cinderella.

Nicole:
Oh, oh, I can believe that, my parents are African. So you know, it’s interesting, because I think that, especially here in America, so many people don’t realize how many overlaps there are. If you have old school parents, where it’s like, oh, we don’t date, you know, that’s not a thing. Or if you have those parents who are like, look, the door closes at eight you got to be in. We actually share a lot culturally, more in common, I think, than people know. And same thing for me. You know, even though I did not grow up, I was born here. But my household was Ghanaian. You know, and those are the rules that would you know, run the household.

My parents would literally say, You’re not like these American children. You need to understand they can do whatever they want. But you are African, what do you need to do at the mall? And what is at the mall for you? You don’t need. What do you need to sleep over at someone’s house? You have bed here. Yeah, how I was growing up, that is the culture, right?

So even though you are fully American, and how you’ve been raised in three months, I mean, you were a baby. You were raised, you know, as if you were in Afghanistan, you know, just different opportunities. So what was that like for you? Because shaping your perspective around what you can accomplish when you are living in two worlds is very difficult to do.

Durana:

It warms my heart that you can resonate with that because most times people are like what? So my closest friends know how dark my childhood was. I cried a lot. To be honest. I was very sad as a child because I couldn’t understand my father. And he was very successful, very wealthy in Afghanistan, left everything because of the Russian invasion and Haiti and came here. And so for him, it was even shocking. So he became an alcoholic. And I have three brothers. My brothers could do anything. Like they can bring girlfriends to the house. I couldn’t do anything and so when I would want to sit with my father and ask him why. Why can I go out?

Nicole:
But you can’t ask why though. One more thing you can’t do.

Durana:

I wouldn’t. I would physically get my ass kicked. And that became very norm for me. So I spent a lot of time with myself. I didn’t, so reflecting now as an adult, what I realized all that time that I spent with myself, lifting myself up having that inner voice that was self-love. And my mother used to always share with me, she says you can self-destruct. And the only person you’re going to hurt is yourself, you’re not a victim in this life, this is just your life. This is just your story.

So I never victimized myself for my childhood, I just remember that when I have the ability and the power to get out of this circumstance, I am going to do something powerful.

Nicole:
That’s right.

Durana:
I am going to make sure that my story can inspire another young girl. My father would never let me celebrate my birthday. And I’ve never ever actually share this. My closest friends know this about me because I, every year I throw a very, very big birthday. And I don’t do it because I love throwing massive parties. Well, part of that, of course.

Nicole:
Party is a good time.

Durana:

Yeah, the truth is I do that because I was never able to celebrate my birthday. So all the nights and days that I would cry, because my father wouldn’t even acknowledge my birthday, I would say to myself, God, if you give me the strength to get through these days, one day, I’m going to honor my breath. I’m going to honor my life. So that’s the reason why I throw such massive birthday parties because it’s my way of showing gratitude to God, to the universe, to my friends through the journey. So life wasn’t easy. But I think that at the end of the day, what you tell yourself determines your outcome.

Nicole:

Oh, so good. So, so good. I want to touch on that. Because I actually when I tell you the overlaps, y’all I told you, she’s our people, birthday blues are a thing. You know, there’s nothing more awkward to me now, as an adult, when people are like, oh, have like, I don’t even want people to know, because it’s so awkward, because I’m so used to not having birthdays, you know, don’t call attention to yourself, we don’t have money for that, you know, that’s an American thing. You know, like, that was kind of how I was raised.

So this year is my first real birthday party that I’m going to throw like a big one for myself. So I get it. And I really want to call out here something that I think you may be in a unique place to speak on. And I talk about this but, you know, for all my friends listening here, you know how sometimes you hear it from one person, we gotta hear from another to know that this is really true, there is so much that comes from taking the time to talk to yourself,the way that you deserve to be treated. And that is something you started doing when you were young. I didn’t start doing this until honestly, maybe eight years ago with like a lot of therapy, I really started coaching myself around, you know, even if you’re scared, give it a shot, you know, would you do the same treatment, you know, would you beat yourself up? If you were doing it to your children? No, you wouldn’t beat your kids up over making a mistake. So why would you do that to yourself, you know, I really had to work hard on restructuring the way that I treated myself right down to wellness, you know, which we’re gonna get into in a minute, you know, because that’s one of your, your whole business. You know, I wasn’t even good to myself, nutrition wise. 

But that said, you started doing that at a young age, which is such an incredible response to trauma. Has that been something you’ve called upon through motherhood? Being a business owner, in the day to day do you find yourself kind of coaching yourself through?

Durana:

Yeah, I want to mention something really interesting. When I was going through this trauma, I always listened to music. And now today, like music has become a really powerful way to heal yourself.

Nicole:
Wow.

Durana:
So I love music even they say like, like sounds like different beats help you through your pain, and can help you like through anxiety. And I didn’t know that but I love music and music has been a big part of my healing and has been a big part of like, who I am. I love music and even today, I wake up to music.

Nicole:
That’s incredible.

Durana:
And so I think that people and individuals have to figure out what helps them kind of get through the pain. So for me, it was music. I also at a young age cut out pictures and magazines to take away from my reality. And almost again, it’s called manifestation today…

Nicole:

Vision boarding. I mean, it’s what people are doing, but you’re you were doing at a young age.

Durana:
I would take myself out of my sadness and my sorrow and I would say okay, I had these posters, like, this is what my life will be like this and I would go into that. And so I would think about it so much. I think I 100% manifested my husband, I’ve manifested my life. I used to have a credit card is to be a size of a credit card and the one side had my three year plan and on the backside had my five year plan.

Nicole:
Incredible.

Durana:
And I believe that if you write it, you see it and you have it with you every single day. You live and you work towards it.

Nicole:

That’s like a biblical, so I’m Christian. That’s a biblical principle. They say write it down and make it plain because there’s real power In tongue in the Word, you know, so a lot of times we keep things inside because we think it’s safer than articulating it. But little do you know that is, you know, a plight, a tool of negative energy, right, you know, is telling you to keep it inside, you’re saying that writing things down, making it visual actually helps you kind of wrap yourself around it, so that you can actually make it real.

Durana:
Yeah.

Nicole:
Beautiful, beautiful, incredible. So I mean, this is all we could, I could literally probably talk to you forever, about just that stage of your life because I know that so much great work happened there to get you where you are today. So now you’ve built this incredible business. And it’s interesting, because on a lot of these podcast chats, y’all, people will start with, so you built this incredible business, and you do all these things, and then they go into the hardship. I want to tell you right now, I like starting with the hard stuff. Because if you hear all the glitz and glamour, it can be difficult to believe that this hard stuff came first. And I want you to know, real mom, every day, tough background, nothing handed to her had to do the same work that we’re all doing, which is coaching ourselves and building a fan all again, actionable work to make it real. So I want to talk about the start of the Cymbiotika brand. So when you first started, was it just an idea? What was the problem you were trying to solve?

Durana:

So there are three founders at Cymbiotika, my husband and myself and Chervin Jafarieh.

Nicole:
Okay.

Durana:

And the start of it was, we were living in Atlanta at the time. We were on our fourth business, my husband and I have realized we’re very ying and yang. He has things that he’s great at, I am terrible at the things that I am great at or good at or that I’m passionate about is not his forte. 

Nicole:
Wonderful. But y’all had a foundation of trust. Yes. And that’s a very big thing. Because you all know I’ve talked about relationships, plenty here, if you don’t have the trust that each person will do the part that they say they will do. It’s not going to work, even if you’re yin and yang.

Durana:

Yeah, well, yes, very true. And that also applies to the folks that you hire and bring on and your work family. That’s you hire folks, and you’ve hired them, but you don’t trust them. You’re better off letting them go.

Nicole:
That’s so good.

Durana:

Hire people trust them, you know, provide them with resources, tools, and then get out of their way and have that spirit of trust.

Nicole:

Wow, that is worth the price of entry right there. Write that down. That was a freebie. You’re welcome.

Durana:
I love you.

Nicole:
It’s true. I mean, that is like literally, we’re talking business school right there in one sentence, because someone right now listening is going to fire that assistant, who is wasting their time and energy. So thank you for that. But circling back to the so there’s three of y’all, and you’re starting it and what did you just sit down and you’re like, oh, you know, like, we need better supplements, or I mean, how does this even start?

Durana:
So my husband, Shahab, and Chervin were high school friends. So they had known one another so they go way back. We were living in Atlanta, we came here to visit because we have a lot of family and friends from Orange County, LA and we originally from Orange County. So we came out here. It was a kid summer break, we had state rented a home and we’re inviting all of our different friends that we haven’t seen in so long. And my husband invites Chervin over and at the time, I call it Cymbiotika 1.0 because there was one product, it was called Omega. And Chervin’s expertise is the science side of the business. He loves it. He’s incredibly great and passionate about producing formulations, products that work…

Nicole:
And are high quality and all of that. And y’all if you’re not familiar with Cymbiotika, the details will be in the show notes. It is worth checking out if you are interested in supplements, if you have been using supplements, I just encourage you to take another look at what you’re using versus what they’re offering to make sure because there’s a lot of evolution in the supplement world and Cymbiotika is on the on the forefront of that. So just check it out. It’s worth looking at. So I love this story just because, literally people think they have to be like struck with a genius or have 15 degrees to come up with a great idea and you’re telling me like I was a mom hanging out with my friends, you know, out of town even with the kids. And we all got together and sat down and we started kind of noodling the first version because it’s not perfect the first time.

Durana:
No, it’s not.

Nicole:
Many lessons

Durana:

Many lessons. And so when we sat back and you know kind of talked about well, what is the infrastructure of the company look like? There was none. Again, because it just wasn’t his passion like he’s like I’m just a guy trying to make great products like what I mean infrastructure, but that’s my husband’s and I that’s our forte, we come from a corporate background, I worked at T Mobile, AT&T. He worked at AT&T as well. And so that’s like our bread and butter. That’s how we know how to build scale the importance of infrastructure, people, culture. So the company was not doing well at the time and he said hey, you know, we should join forces because we all bring something so different to the table. It aligned with our values personally at the time. And still today, because after having two daughters, I had to reevaluate what success meant for me.

Nicole:

Yes, who don’t we all right? Do we even want it at all at the expense of our family? That’s something we all have to ask ourselves.

Durana:
Well, in corporate America success was for me at the time was defined by my salary, my title, and how many bags I had.

Nicole:
That’s right. That’s right.

Durana:
I had no children. I’m like, Yeah, I’m just accumulating things. And I had no work life balance. So the minute I had some time off, I was doing some retail therapy.

Nicole:
For sure.

Durana:
And after having daughters, I sat back with my husband. And I’m like, what? Like, what’s my story? Once these girls get old enough? That’s good. Mom’s super cool. We never see her. But she’s got a lot of bags. And I said to Shahab, I said, you know, we’ve got to redefine our stories. This isn’t our legacy. We’ve learned a lot here, built incredible mentors, you know, made a lot of money, great investments on the side, but this can’t be it.

Nicole:
Can we just pause for a second on this can’t be it because I’ve talked about this a lot, where I just want to battle against what we’re hearing so much in the world, which is, oh, you’re lacking money. Oh, you’re lacking this, and I don’t want to minimize money is a beautiful tool. It is so nice to have options. It’s a great gift. And you all deserve it. Okay, that is 100%. True. But it is not everything. And I have not met a single person who has made millions who hasn’t said to themselves at some point, this can’t be it. And ‘ve said it, you know, you’re saying it now. And I just want to call that out to let you know that if you’re starting from the beginning, keep that in mind, because you will come to this question as well.

So here you are saying like, you know, we know what it’s like to make money through corporate, we know what it’s like to have this stuff. We want to build something that allows us to also honor the life that we want to have, and also leave a great impact in the world. And that’s what happened here.

Durana:

Yeah, the times where I made the most money. It was the moments that I was most miserable.

Nicole:

That’s good. That’s good.

Durana:

It’s a very, like honest, discussion that are, you know, like an honest moment you have to have with yourself.

Nicole:

A lot of people don’t.

Durana:

I was miserable. I didn’t like the person I worked for. They didn’t make me feel good. And I lived a life just like going through the motions. Yeah, like, I just got to show up to work.

Nicole:
Yes.

Durana:
So for us, we had a lot of, you know, we had done well financially. And at this point, what my husband and I wanted was, we wanted to own our time back, because we didn’t own time. Corporate America owned our time, but that’s okay, that works for some.

Nicole:

And there’s nothing wrong with it. Because for some people, that structure affords you the life that you want to have, and let’s not minimize benefits, you know, I can appreciate not wanting to worry about, you know, navigating benefits and those things when you have a kid who has, you know, health conditions or whatever. But there’s also something to be said for always having a source of revenue, even on the side that you control. I always encourage that for everyone. And you know, call that an immigrants, you know, perspective, but you always want to have your own money.

Durana:

Yeah. And so at the time when we didn’t have children, corporate America was great for us. Yep. But after having children. The first steps my daughter, Yasmine took, I remember the nanny sending me a message saying your daughter took her first steps. And I was like it till this day, like makes me want to cry, because I’m like, if you really reflect back on what matters, it’s that. It’s those moments.

Nicole:
You can’t pay for those back, no matter how much money you make. I get it, even though again, grace to the mamas, some of us have to work and we understand it. But the truth is, if you had a choice, we all know where we would be. Yeah. So it was at that small table, you know, that it was like, Hey, we all have something to lend to this. We’re going to build this thing out, we’re gonna make it happen. And it’s really exciting. Because I mean, the product suite that you have at Cymbiotika is impressive. You know, and I know it started with, you know, one product that you’ve grown and scaled as you’re, you know, engaging with the market. My personal favorite thing about the company as I’m a corporate consultant, that’s my background. The thing that I love about the company is their approach to supplements, you know, the way that they’ve innovated the delivery of supplements is what really makes it stand out.

So for y’all who are like, well, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Most vitamins and supplements come in pill form. And that’s very challenging, I’ll just say for me, you know.

Durana:
And me.

Nicole:
You know, like I’ve hear it all the time. The last thing I want, especially as I’ve age is to take 15 pills, you know, to get the wide range of pure clean, you know, vegan products that I need. You guys do this thing called liposomal technology. And I don’t need to get into all the nuances. And frankly, none of us care. We care about how it works with our life, right? Liposomal technology basically means it’s like a gel.

Durana:

It’s a liquid form, it has the highest absorption rate, so your body absorbs it like its food. And so for us, it was when we first look, I’m sorry, if I could just take a quick step. No, of course, I think it’s important when you get into a business to really understand the landscape and understand the competitive landscape. So for us, we 100% believed and yes, there is such a lack of this in the industry, we looked at the competitive landscape. And really, there was none there, I had oversight before as being transparent. No one is creating products with no synthetics, no fillers, all organic, and just being completely authentic, and, you know, transparent in terms of how they’re making their products.

For us, it was like, we’re on to something. The world is lacking this. And again, it aligned with our values. So then we looked at, again, the competitive landscape and said, Well, everyone has this in pill form. And for me, I’ve got a pallet of a child.

Nicole:
Yep, same.

Durana:
I take the slightest thing, you know, my son, my son, my tummy hurts. So we were like, there are no supplements today, that isn’t a liquid form, that’s really filling that bridging the gap and bridging the gap, but is fulfilling the gaps in your modern diet. And we are going to do that. So we started out then that was Cymbiotika 2.0 is what I call it. And so when we started out, we built an infrastructure first and foremost, because most people think and they look at the success. But every single time we were profitable, we were successful, we took that money, and we put it right back into the business. So we built infrastructure, we brought our fulfillment in house. Then we… fulfillment for anyone, I apologize, I say that. But you know, we were using a third party logistics company that was fulfilling our orders. And there were a lot of issues, delays, all those things. So we said, You know what, we’ve got to bring in our fulfillment in house, we opened our own warehouse.

Nicole:
Which is very risky. Just let y’all know, as it is a bold move in business to say that you’re going to do in house fulfillment, because inventory management can be a killer that literally can sink your business, if you aren’t ordering the right amount. If you aren’t shipping out at the right time. I have a lot of business owners who are listening right now who can understand and relate to that. And, you know, but what I want to call out more than anything is, it’s a choice that every company actually has to make. If they are product-based at some point, and there’s no getting around it, you will look at your inventory and you will say I have to bring this in house to generate the right revenue and to scale.

And so for those of you who are listening, who are of the business standpoint, it’s a bold move. But if you make the right choices on the front end, you’ll feel confident in your numbers, you know, you’ll still feel scared, because it’s always scary.

Durana:
Always scary.

Nicole:
But it is the right move. So that was bold. And that speaks to sort of the team that you had around you, for you all to be able to say, we’re going to take this next big leap.

Durana:

Yeah. And we also brought in our customers experience in house, which again, very, very costly to do, especially in California.

Nicole:
And people management, oh, my goodness, just like headaches. You know what I mean? When you’re just managing people,

Durana:

We always reflect on the fact that we went from a company that was, you know, two people to today, we’re almost at 100. And so we brought everything in house, we brought in tech in house, we brought in marketing in house. And I think that’s very, very important is that you’ve got to invest in yourself. And for all the business owners that are listening, if you’re getting into a business to make money, I believe you’re getting in for the wrong reason.

Nicole:
That’s right.

Durana:
You’ve got to get in because you’re passionate about what you’re doing. There’s a purpose that you’re trying to fulfill, then the money will come. And most importantly, you’ve got to be prepared to fail.

Nicole:

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Because you’re gathering data around winning when you fail, you know. And so that’s a big one. So, I mean, you entered the market with this new product. And I’m excited, I know that I happen to know the Cymbiotika story so I’m going to lead you into something that I want them to hear. I’m sure that the minute you enter the product you just took off and everybody wanted one and you were in every store and everyone loved you and you were the greatest company in the entire world and everything was perfect. And you made millions of dollars.

Durana:
Not at all.

Nicole:
<laughs> Really surprise, you know, the internet doesn’t make it seem that way. Right. So So I want to know, can you just let all the people out there right now who are saying, this is crazy. I’m trying every day I’m knocking down doors. I feel like I’m the only one. How did it really happen?

Durana:

We failed a lot. And I think that every time you fail, the answer is you just haven’t come up with a solution.

Nicole:
That’s right. That’s right.

Durana:

And so we fail a lot. The one thing is we’ve all stuck together and we believe and each other we believe in each other’s strengths. We continue to invest in the infrastructure and the team. When COVID happened, everyone regressed in their businesses, started shutting down their offices, we doubled down and said, we believe in ourselves, try, let’s go all in. And we even opened a larger office and said, We’re going to build greater teams within each department. Today, you know, people ask us are you in, you know, this particular store. And although it sounds really glamorous to be in every store, you have to make decisions that A. are true to your brand. B. You have to make sure that you can, you know, support that distribution, that you have the cash flow, because we’re self-funded, to if you know, if it doesn’t, if your products don’t move, you’re gonna have to buy that back.

Nicole:

Exactly. Right. And a lot of people don’t know that. Yeah. So I just want to let all of you know that you know, it’s a flex on the internet, people are like, Oh, we are in 100 targets nationwide, you may not know if you’ve never worked with a consultant, that target has one of the strictest buyback policies. And sometimes the deal to buy back is at a discount. So you can actually post a loss and get your inventory back and not be able to sell it. So you know, that’s not always the biggest flex, you may want to be, if you’re especially if you’re self funded, aware of your distribution, ecommerce can be a great place to start.

Durana:
Yeah, so we’re, you know, primarily D to C. And we’ve launched about a month or so ago, we had a soft launch in Dubai. Wow. And we know we’re in Canada, we’re in Australia, and we plan to go into Europe soon. But we’re very, very methodical in terms of where we go. Because it’s, it sounds great to be in all these places. But you have to make sure that you have an infrastructure to support that market. You have to have the infrastructure to support wholesale and every single experience in terms of our customer, if we’ve got a wholesaler, that’s our customer. If we’ve got, Target, that’s our customer, we’re not in target. As an example. Yep. So you’ve got to make sure that you’re delivering the same experience as you are D to C. So for us, if we can’t support that channel, we will hold off until we know it’s the right time for us. Again, because sometimes too fast of a growth can take you backwards.

Nicole:

Yeah. So okay. I know that we’ve had a ton of time here. But there’s so much in what you’re saying. And I hope everyone’s hearing it, you are literally a wealth of knowledge, because you are tucking in gems for life, right here with gems for business, you know, you don’t always want fast growth, you want sustainable growth. Sometimes we have to say no to opportunities we’re not ready for because I’m sure you guys get offers from large corporations. But it does not make sense. If it doesn’t fit into your strategy. Yes, you’re also sharing that intentionality matters again, and that is the thing I kind of want to close on because I have noticed that whether it is your life, you know, the things you survived when you were younger, and how you took that pain and trauma and applied it to your future or your business, the choices and changes and pivots you made for your personal success and private goals, intentionality, and strategy and structure are things that are the same everywhere.

You’re always intentional about everything you do. Can you just leave us with sort of, I hate to put the pressure on the one gem right, you know, but for the woman out there who’s saying to herself right now, I feel like my life is taking over. I feel like it’s not my own, you know, every day, I’m kind of running on autopilot. I feel like I need a fresh start. I feel like I’ve lost myself. You know, I’m working in the corporate job I’m clocking in but it’s killing my soul. You know, and I’m serving these babies. Where is one place I can get more intentional and take back a little bit of my life in my dreams? Where should I start?

Durana:

Self love. Self love for me is very important because I feel like it’s the foundation to how you do anything and everything. And I have a lot of girlfriends that say I don’t have the time to do something and I say you’re wrong. You haven’t made it important. It hasn’t become a priority for you. It’s not important enough. So for me, if there’s something, an aspect of your life where you’re like, gosh, you know, my I’m not happy with my career. You gotta I always say take a step back. Are you happy with yourself personally? Make those changes first. Because if you are happy from within, and you feel good, you feel empowered, you are able to conquer anything that comes your way.

Nicole:

Y’all. When I tell you you can skip church on Sunday, this was a whole sermon. Okay? I mean, come on, Durana with the fire. Okay, I’m over here revved up y’all like I could do laps around this building. So I am so grateful that you came in today not just to speak to into those of us who have businesses, you know, you’ve spoken to our little entrepreneurial souls, but to the mamas out there, you know, reminding us that we’re worthy and we should love ourselves because we’re showing up big every single day. Okay, as beautiful and wonderful and accomplished as you are, thank you for coming in here being real. I mean, there’s not enough of that. And you know, I think a lot of people tend to judge a book by their cover. And they forget that we’re all so much more than that and your realness is not lost on me. So, Durana, thank you for being here.

Durana:

Thank you, Nicole. What a pleasure. I love your energy. Oh, I like your energy. I mean, my goodness, can I bottle up your energy?

Nicole:

Unbelievable look, if we can figure out how to do it, but until then, there’s Cymbiotika. <laughs>

Durana:

Thank you so much for all your love and support.

Nicole:
And thanks for being here. Thank you.