Ruining Relationships?!

Ruining Relationships?!

Friend, you know that I’m committed to bringing experts and highly qualified people to chat with us, in inform us, and to help us make moves to a better life. For those reasons, I’m so excited to bring you into this chat with Dr. Patrick McGrath, Chief Clinical Officer of NOCD.

In this chat with Dr. McGrath, we talk specifically about relationship OCD and how it differs from anxiety, personality disorders, and general worrying.

With therapy, the first step can be the hardest but after that each step tends to be easier. NOCD provides effective, affordable, and convenient virtual therapy for all types of OCD and I encourage you to learn more at and schedule a free 15-minute call with their team.

I Am Not Explaining Myself

I Am Not Explaining Myself

I’m Not Explaining Myself

This whole season we have been talking about surrendering and the peace we can acquire from doing so. In the process of letting go in my own life, I’ve had to confront my habit of over-explaining. To put is simply, I’m not explaining myself, friend!

Are you with me? You know when someone in your life drops the ball and you feel as if you need to equip them with more information so it won’t happen again? Or they are misunderstanding you so you feel as if they need more from you to understand?

Well, that just isn’t it – at least not all the time. Letting others learn the lessons they’re meant to learn is freeing and necessary for everyone involved. Thanks for being here for this chat. Let’s get into it!


So friends, I want to tell you about something that has changed my life and that I really think is going to create major shifts in yours. Now, I’ll start with a little bit of a story. So if you’ve read Nothing is Missing, which is my New York Times bestselling memoir, I talk a lot about my childhood and how I grew up with a father who, uh, was narcissistic and, um, You know, through his own traumas of his own and honestly, I will say some of it I think is kind of cultural and but that’s a conversation for another day, but in African culture, there’s this concept called tiger parenting.

Tiger parenting is the American westernized term for it, and you may be familiar with it, but tiger parenting is basically you are raising adults, not children. And so what that means conceptually is that your sole job as a parent is to raise these children by treating them like tiny adults.

So, I personally believe that it’s a little of column A, a little of column B, right? You want to make sure your kids are being taught the skills that they need to have in order to survive in the world, right? We don’t want to raise entitled little brats who are walking around feeling like everyone owes them something and that they aren’t responsible to anyone.

But, because, you know, evolution, growing up in America, if you will, or just better exposure to the value of therapy, I really understand the importance of empathy and emotional intelligence and that’s a huge part of how I raise my kids as well, is making sure they understand that they have privilege and that they’re, they need to extend others grace and that they need to spend time listening and hearing what other people are dealing with.

And so. All of those things being said, I didn’t grow up with any of that. And I think a lot of us can relate to that, whether you are, have old school Southern parents or parents that grew up just a flat out different generation or immigrant parents. You know, tiger parenting is really, really, really common.

And what ends up being the outcome of tiger parenting can affect kids in different ways. So if you were the elder child, if, and you guys, y’all can Google this. They’re so, So much like documentation and just it’s amazing the evolution of information that’s coming out in relation to this Because and I hate to say it but our generation’s getting older, right?

So we’re finally the ones writing the papers and we’re writing about what matters to us But if you were the elder child This style of parenting whether it was full blown narcissism or just a cultural clash of values and parenting methods but what happens is that You’ve become almost parentified and parentification is basically your job is to stand in the role of the parent.

So it’s not just this sort of latchkey kid concept, where, you know, you came home, your parents dropped you off, and you, you know, kind of took care of yourself and fended for yourself after school, and maybe then you played games, or ran down to the lake, or climbed trees. No, this is like full on parent to father.

Which means you raised your siblings and sometimes you had to, especially in immigrant households, act as a translator or go pay bills or you know, maybe even get a job early. And you know, that leads to tons of different traumas. However, if you were the elder child in particular, or the only child, a lot of the trauma related things that come from this style of parenting or exposure.

are celebrated in our society. We are seen as being the hyper productive, perfectionist, overachievers. I mean, you’re the ones with eight Ph. D. s or you’re the super moms or you’re highly functional people. But we usually also have like a crippling anxiety, you’re overworked, you have an inclination to be burnt out, you are, over committed, you know, all the time and you over deliver often, but usually at the expense of your own wellness.

Now, I know we jumped right in there. I’m going to pause for a sec. Some of you are hearing all of that and saying, Nicole. Ease up. I did not ask to be attacked on this episode. Okay? Okay, I get it. This is me. Right? Or you’re married to this person. Or you are siblings with this person. Or you see this person at work.

Now, another thing that happens as a byproduct of this sort of, uh, It is a form of trauma. Traumatic background is even though the outcome in your life may be that you have the house and the car and all these things, you may suffer in terms of balance and joy and energy and wellness, but one of the other things that is a common outcome that I’m starting to learn about that is just changing my life is These people are, and I say these people, that sounds so weird, me, me included, hand raised, but, uh, people who’ve had exposure to this sort of background often are, um, huge people pleasers.

And people pleasers are, uh, people who worry so much about, again, that perfectionism aspect, making sure that they’re making people happy, they’re, uh, people with flexi boundaries, you know, so their boundaries are one where they are more than willing to, you know, sacrifice themselves on the behalf of others.

easily subjected to being manipulated and or feeling heavily guilty if they aren’t meeting others expectations, whether or not that is in alignment with their own. it is a really unfortunate byproduct because you basically are that person who is such a hard worker and then people who may be less than that.

thin hard workers will attach themselves to you and like, leech off of you, right? And I know right now some of y’all are nodding your head like, no, not me. Yes, I’m exhausted. And one of the things that I learned is a very common attribute that I really want to focus on today that I’ve been working on in the past, I’d say like six months or so, um, is overexplaining, like overexplaining your feelings, overexplaining, what you mean, uh, over explaining when you, when you feel like you’re misunderstood.

And again, heavy emphasis on feel like you’re misunderstood. And I say that we’ll actually just address that part now. A lot of times in this situation, you may feel like you’re misunderstood when people understand you perfectly well. That was a sentence my therapist said to me. And when I tell you, it changed my life.

It changed my life. My therapist was like, Nicole, I want you to know that people can understand you perfectly well. They can know that you are right. They can understand that what you’re saying is clear. They can understand that what you’re saying makes sense and they can still be choosing to misunderstand you and do whatever they want to do because that’s just what they want to do.

When I tell you the freedom I had from that, I’m going to say it again briefly for those of y’all who didn’t catch it the first time, People can know that what you are saying makes sense. That it is practical and that you are correct and it is even in their interest to do the thing you are telling them to do and they can still do what they want to do, cause harm to themselves and others and not care and look you in the face and act like you’re wrong.

I was like, how is that possible? That doesn’t seem logical. What are you talking about? No, sometimes people just want to do what they want to do. They don’t care if it makes sense or not. And when I tell you, I was so freed when I, when it really just like sank in. Like, no, some people just like mess. And for those of y’all who are under 40, I hope that this really is meeting you at the right time and you get to benefit from the over 40 crowd.

Because over 40 crowd, this is something that just comes into your life in general. Because over 40, you get a certain level of tired and exhausted where you don’t have the energy to even get into it with people as much. So the blessing I’ve had in the past six months is as I’m You know, healthily in this 40 year old club, I’m a natural energy of doing less with others hot mess, right?

But this over explaining thing that I used to do looked like this. I would have Disagreements with people in my life, various relationships, anything from family to people I’m like dating or, employees, you know, where people would come to me and they would disappoint, right?

Disappoint or let me down, or they would fail to do something that they agreed to do, or they would fail to do something that is generally understood by the masses as a moral or ethical obligation, right? Like, this is just, and I’m just talking about things that are like, not of question, right? Like, oh, you said you would pay that bill on time?

Obviously you would do it. You did not do it, and thus we have an issue, right? And what would happen is, I, of course, would say, this is surprising to me that this thing didn’t occur. Was there a misunderstanding around said task? Did we not, like, because grace, right? Benefited the doubt. Where, what happened here, right?

What happened here that this thing did not occur? And I know for some of y’all right now, you’re like, exactly, right? The grace is asking what happened here. And then said party, you know, in whatever manifestation of these moments would then proceed to give me A variety of reasons, like, you know, well, I didn’t have all my information or, oh, I started, but I ran into this problem or, oh, I wanted to, but you know, this other thing came up or, oh, I’m suddenly overwhelmed or, oh, I, you know, failed to communicate, blah, blah, blah, or, oh, you know, you didn’t give me enough time or whatever the thing was, right?

And so then what would happen, and here’s a shift from where I was and where I am, right? What would happen is I would then proceed. To try to re explain what the original task was, make sure I really asked a lot of questions and understood where the, where the failing was. Which often led to a situation where that person would, I guess, in their awareness of maybe how unaligned their response is, is a nice way I can say it.

Understanding that, like, look, like there’s no excuse for me not doing the thing I’m supposed to do, right? Like, just kind of, because people would dance all day around, like, the fact of the matter. So, I, and they would just sit there and explain it. And I would just get into these circles, oh lord, these circles of, like, just going back and forth, back and forth, you know, with this person.

When ultimately, again, we’re talking about what was and what is, I would then realize, oh, I don’t even need to say all that. The thing was not done. And getting to the point of understanding where things are clear or where I feel like they clearly understand what I’m saying and they’re not putting this back on me as something that I needed to figure out that, you know, whether the failing is mine and communication or theirs, the task did not happen.

That could have happened in two seconds. Or even better, if a person telling me they want to do something, because also, I’ll just own this, this even comes up in my relationship. And I don’t think Alex will mind that I’m telling this story, you know, where, And ladies, you’ll understand this too in your partnerships, you’ll watch your, your, your guy wanting to do something and it’s something you ask them to do, but you know, for a fact that the way they’re approaching it is going to result in surefire disaster, or it’s going to result in additional hardship or more work or whatever, but at the end of the day, you ask them to do it.

And so, and you don’t want to do it. So you have to figure out a way to sit there and let them do it their own way and be okay with it. And that is something I have really worked on in my present relationship. And, um, and it’s been a real blessing because I’ve grown as a person in general in recognizing that I cannot sit here and over explain to him how it needs done because that is as much mental labor and exhaustion as him just doing it.

So, Even when he comes to me and he says, like, there’ll be, especially because I do business, y’all, you know, he’ll come to me because he’s an entrepreneur as well, or, you know, he works for himself. He will say, um, Oh, well, I’m thinking of taking this thing on and I will want to business him down. I’ll be like, you need this step, this step, this step, this thing needs to happen.

And I’m like, why am I even explaining all this? Because he just wants, he’s going to go and do what he wants to do on some level. He’s going to do what he wants to do. Why am I even? And so I’ve just started being like, okay, well, that sounds great. The freedom I get from just letting people be, letting them sit in what they want to sit in, letting them work through their issues.

Y’all, when I tell you today on today, free yourself. Let people live in their mess if they want to be in their mess. Let people misunderstand you if they are committed to misunderstanding you. Let people think whatever they want to think about you. Uh, if you listen to, I think. Maybe three or four episodes ago, um, I actually had Alex on here and we were chatting about sort of the baby process, you know, how we’re really making changes in our lives and we are really trying to make sure our, our home, our spirit, our energy, our bodies are all the way together so that when, um, the time comes to really start this baby journey, that we are as prepared as one can be for babies.

And I have to tell you, one of the biggest things I’ve been working on is not allowing people to get my blood pressure up. Like, people are not going to stress me out, not on today, not when, not when I want my body to be a vessel that can safely cook without additional stress and anxiety this child, right?

So if I’m going to let my body be that, that also means I’ve really got to accept that People are going to come at you left, right. There’s going to be all these sorts of things, even in the work day. Like, you’ll get on the phone and you’ll be like, Oh my gosh, I’ve got, you know, 15 calls to make. I just need everyone to be where they need to be.

And there’s definitely going to be something that’s thrown off. And I can’t get invested in, uh, over explaining or going through all these different steps to make sure things happen and also recognizing that through both Jesus, Lord, please help me, you know, and therapy, Lord, I need to help myself, right?

I have got to acknowledge that the, the need for I wouldn’t call it perfection, but precision, as well as the desire to make sure that I am meeting all my marks so that I don’t let people down because I’m responsible to a lot of people, my, my, my spouse, my kids, my community, you know, there’s only so much I can do.

So friends, here’s a couple of places that this may be showing up in your life right now with your kids. I gotta tell you, the surrender of letting your kids make the mess and learn is real. It’s, I feel like it’s a little bit easier when they’re younger because the messes are a little bit more predictable, a little bit more manageable, and at the end of the day you can, you know, kind of pick them up and move them.

Like, little meaning like, you know, 10 and under, right? Like toddlery, you can just like pick them up and move them. So you see them carrying something that they maybe shouldn’t be carrying because it’s a little bit too many things and you know it’s going to spill, but you let them kind of live and then you’ll, you’ll pick it up and clean it up.

But now they’ve learned. But I also mean like even in some of the teenage year stuff, like Puffin came in the other day and she’s, you know, our Allie is our 12 year old and she is, she turns 13 this year. So she’s in full on teen mode. And, If you know anything about natural hair, I used to be a curly hair blogger, uh, really, really, uh, kinky, curly, tight, coiled hair, um, is not something that you can wear down, like not in braids or put away, very often because if you do it, it tangles, um, and it just requires a lot of management and products.

She is now starting to experiment more because she’s fully in that teen girl age where she wants to wear different Hairstyles and she you know likes to play in her hair a little bit more. She’s getting more independence around that But for the most part, I’m still doing her hair, you know and keeping up her styles just to make sure that You know, she doesn’t deal with like knots and tangles and things of that sort.

Well, we kind of, we’re starting to split the responsibility so that she can, you know, put it in a ponytail here and there and do different things as she learns and takes on responsibility. Well, for the very first time last week, I um, you know, come out for breakfast in the morning before she leaves for school and she’s got her hair just like kind of out in a full front.

And one of the things I said to her was, Hey, you know, your hair looks super cute. I mean, you look great like this, and I love this style on you. Um, however, you know, we’ve talked a little bit about, you know, how important it is to maintain our hair being detangled, and that’s actually part of why we do protective styling, is to make sure our hair stays healthy because it’s put away.

So, um, I know that you’re excited to wear your hair out in a fro and, you know, you have the freedom to do that. However, I do want to let you know there may be some outcomes that you did not expect in doing this at the end of the day. And she kind of looks at me and she’s like, okay, because teenager. And I’m like, yeah, you know, I was like, so, you know, some of those outcomes may be that you’ll have additional detangling.

You may need to wash it. Your hair is going to get a little bit drier, you know, and a lot of the things you don’t enjoy about hair maintenance, you’re going to have a lot of at the end of the day, if you wear your hair out. And she’s like, okay, well, I don’t, I don’t see the problem. Now pause on a minute.

Right? This is a place where mama could have gotten into detail. She could have pulled up YouTube videos. She could have illustrated or I could have taken the other mama route, which is please just go do what I say because I said it. Now I want to let you know that’s not the route I ever take with my kids.

I, I’m really big on if you’re old enough to ask the question, you’re old enough to get the answer. But the part that I’m doing for my own personal growth is surrendering people to learn their own lessons as they deserve. And so, um, you know, I, I said, you know what? You’re right. If you feel comfortable, that’s totally fine.

Um, I can share with you that, you know, the outcome may be a little bit more than you anticipate, but, if you need to cross that bridge when you get there, that’s totally fine. Have a great, you know, have a great day. You do look beautiful no matter what. And so she decides to wear her hair out, and as expected, you know, hair’s super tangled.

as anyone who has curly hair or frizzy hair knows, like, the way it starts in the morning is not how it ends up at the end of the day. And so she comes back in and she is just like, don’t even say anything. And just like goes back to her room and changes her hair and, you know, uh, watches it, puts it back and all that.

And it has been put away for the rest of the week. And she has, you know, learned. what she needed to learn in her processing. And I have to tell you, not saving and rescuing people from learning the lesson that God has for them is one of the kindest things you can do. And um, it can be tough sometimes, right?

With our kids, especially as they get older. And again, if you read my book, Nothing is Missing, you know that this is something I’ve gone through with through all ages, not just a teenager with a ponytail, but my older girls who are 24 and dealing with things like recovery, you know, My eldest one, she is now a little over a year sober, and I’m so, so proud of her.

And, you know, she’s got her own place and her own car and she’s been at her job for a while. I mean, she’s really stepping into adulthood, but, you know, that didn’t come without challenges. and I fully take responsibility in my mom role where, you know, I really wanted to help her as much as possible.

And there are times where I really have to reconcile that. I hope I didn’t delay her, um, even though I facilitated her entry into, you know, rehabilitation and, you know, detox and that process, uh, when she finally came to me and was ready. I think of all the times before where she was struggling and had difficult moments and, I went to her rescue, you know, whether it was restocking her fridge or helping with her housing or, you know, something of that sort, you know, and parenting in that capacity because at the time it felt right.

I don’t have guilt about it because I think I did the right thing with what I had then and and it was the right thing overall because of where she is now, um, but sometimes I look at it and I think of how much I’ve developed both as a parent and a person. And I think, gosh, how many times and what would the outcome have been if she had to absorb the fullness of that situation?

and, you know, this stage of my life where. because of my own health and well being, I can’t help but let people absorb the fullness of their situation, uh, which includes not benefiting, ooh, I just had a whole moment, ooh, ooh, word y’all, not benefiting from the attributes that I’ve had to develop in order to save myself, right, by choosing to opt out of their drama and not save them when they’re in what they’re in.

And I really want to extend that to you as well. And, you know, over explaining is just one element of it, but y’all, We have these people in our lives who are so used to using us as crutches, you know, and are so used to, you know, having us step in there and we don’t even realize we’re doing it because, one, I mean, all the society stuff around how women are supposed to be nurturers and caregivers and, you know.

You know, we’re supposed to give until we can’t give no more, especially if you’re a Christian, you know, just, Oh, give, give, give. Right. And I don’t say it like it’s a bad thing, but like, gosh, not to, not to your last, you know, like not where you don’t have enough for the rest of your children or, you know, for your own health and wellbeing.

And y’all, I can’t tell you the transformation of me saying someone is old enough. where they can absorb the fullness of their actions, and they can save themselves. And even better, if they don’t save themselves in this situation, the learning experience and the consequences and the lessons of this will be so tremendous in redirecting their lives.

I don’t want to spare them the lesson God’s trying to teach them. And aside from that, I think I don’t want to exert the extra energy of trying to explain what is to come. I don’t want to exert the extra energy of trying to help them see what they don’t want to see. And there’s levels to this. You know, there’s levels to letting go, to that surrender, to that relinquishing, to not trying to rescue.

Even that co worker at work, y’all, how many of y’all will stay late doing that extra work for that co worker and covering because you’re like, well, I don’t want the company, blah, blah, blah, or I don’t want this. Y’all, it ain’t your company. They’re not paying you extra to save them, and that person’s still going to take the credit.

And now you’re just showing up extra tired at home for your kids. Please. There’s nothing wrong with giving a little if you think that it’s going to be reciprocated, but half the time, you’re not getting any reciprocity. If anything, you’re borrowing from the bank of your own wellness. And I think that that cost, that price, It’s a little bit too high.

So friends, I know that we have so much pride in being the go to. I know that it can feel so good to know that you can step into a situation and, and have the answer. And on many levels, we’ve, we’ve only ever operated this way. So we don’t know any other way to be, but I want to let you know there’s levels to this.

It’s not just about letting go and surrendering. It’s also about realizing that it isn’t even always your job to point people in the right direction. Sometimes, not only is the journey theirs, but so is drawing the path to get there.


  • Why I’ve stopped explaining myself, always, to others,
  • How doing so has given me so much freedom and may for you too,
  • Why we tend to over-explain, and
  • What to do if you find yourself explaining to others over and over again
  • Let’s connect on Instagram HERE
  • Grab my New York Times Bestselling memoir, Nothing is Missing, HERE!
  • Book a 20 min call to see if working together is the right next step for you!
  • Did you build a life that burns you out consistently? Friend, I’ve been there! Listen here or watch here.
  • I love reading your reviews of the show! You can share your thoughts on Apple here!

If you’re looking for the strategies and encouragement to pursue a life of purpose, this is the podcast for you! Week after week Nicole Walters will have you laughing hysterically while frantically taking notes as she shares her own personal stories and answers your DMs about life, business, and everything in between.

As a self-made multimillionaire and founder of the digital education firm, Inherit Learning Company, Nicole Walters is the “tell-it-like-it-is” best friend that you can’t wait to hang out with next.

When Nicole shows up, she shows OUT, so tune in each week for a laugh, a best friend chat, plus the strategies and encouragement you need to confidently live a life of purpose.

Follow Nicole on IG @NicoleWalters and visit today and click the button to join our betterment community. Your membership gives you access to a world of people and tools focused on helping you build the life you want.

Should You Get Divorced?

Should You Get Divorced?

One thing we have to get good at is making choices; choices that are in alignment with who we are and where we are going.

Easier said than done though, right? In seasons of transition and growth, making the right choice can keep us up at night.

Friend, if you relate to that, this chat with ‪Myesha Chaney is for you! Myesha has a fool-proof system to help you make better choices and to get unstuck.

From TV star to starting over post-divorce, Myesha’s life has given her the opportunities to grow and align herself with who she needed to be, for herself.

Don’t miss this chat where Myesha shares how you can discover your built-in values, make better decisions, and realize your next season of life!

Thanks for being here to do the work, friend. Connect with Myesha and I over on Instagram at @‌MyeshaChaney and @‌NicoleWalters.



Nicole Walters: Hello, everyone. So, I have gone through some major transitions in the past couple weeks. Um, I’m planning for a massive wedding. And by massive, I mean I would be content to get married with like three people present and we are having a hundred people there.

Nicole Walters: And I am excited to go on a honeymoon for two weeks and I am excited about all these big things. So if you’ve been following along on Instagram, you saw the That I, uh, went wedding dress shopping and just so many big changes are afoot. And if you heard last week’s episode, you also know we’re prepping and planning for baby, which is, I mean, you know how I am.

Nicole Walters: I like to do it all and I like to do it big. But the number one question that I’ve been getting in my DMs during this process of everyone seeing me dive full on headfirst into my, you know, newer, fancier, better aligned life is, Nicole, how did you know? When your marriage was over, like, how did you know that it was time to step out?

Nicole Walters: And I know that this comes up a lot because so many of us are in places of transition. And when I say step out, I mean, not just your marriage, the job, your marriage, the friendship, you know, like even being a mom, I’m stay at home. How do I know I need to return back to the workforce? And all this boils down to is just big decision making.

Nicole Walters: And I know how I make my decisions. It’s really and truly not something I struggle with. I may struggle with the anxiety and the nerves around moving forward, but I don’t actually struggle with the decision itself, right? Like, I figure it out. I add some plan to it and I get moving. So, I decided to tap one of my dear best good friends who is brilliant.

Nicole Walters: She is smart. She is wise. She is a star of Preachers of LA that aired on Oxygen. I know everybody watched it. We all watched it. And, um, there was like the Atlanta franchise, the Chicago franchise. And so she is, you know, TV star. She’s an author. She’s written an incredible book called Hidden Behind the Lipstick.

Nicole Walters: She is just everything and anything that you would need in a best friend, in a wise counsel. I mean, heck, she has been a first lady of a church, so she can help us. Figure out her full, I mean, she has a foolproof system to help you make better decisions and to get unstuck. So, I mean, this is my go to.

Nicole Walters: Maisha, Chaney, thank you so much for being

Myesha Chaney: I’m so, I just heard that introduction and I’m like, Oh my goodness. Is she talking about me?

Nicole Walters: Yes, it is. Because listen, you’re the first lady of a church. And so, you know that you get everything. You get everything from we want a divorce. We’re having a baby. We’re thinking about moving. You want to start a business. People come to you.

Myesha Chaney: Yeah. And it’s been something that I’ve had to manage for a long time.

Nicole Walters: And see, and that I think is one of the things that so many of us lose sight of, is that when you’re in that role as the, you know, that counsel, there’s so much pressure also around how you make decisions and how you carry yourself. So it’s not just that you’re giving advice, you’re expected to manage your life a certain way too.

Myesha Chaney: And that there are consequences when there’s a misstep.

Nicole Walters: So let’s talk about the misstep. We’re just going to jump right in here. So we are both divorcees, right? Congratulate. And it’s so funny because you know, we say that and we clap and we laugh about it. But I think what we’re celebrating is the fact that we were able to make a decision to live a life that’s more in line with us and honestly, what God’s called over our

Myesha Chaney: Yes, absolutely. It is something to celebrate when you make it to the other

Nicole Walters: When you make it to the other side, but it’s also not that we’re celebrating a failed marriage or a marriage that actually just went a different direction. I don’t even want to call it failed because it just came to an end, a culmination, a finishing point. And I will say, though, as a first lady of a black church that’s on TV, ma’am, I can’t even get into what it must have been like for you to announce.

Nicole Walters: I mean, actually, I think that your ex actually announced He did. He did. He announced it on social media. And he

Nicole Walters: just lets you know, we’re not even calling the pastor part into question because what we don’t do here is talk badly about our exes. Cause it’s not even that

Myesha Chaney: we don’t even

Nicole Walters: It’s not even that energy, but as just a person to have it announced.

Nicole Walters: And so it’s just difficult.

Nicole Walters: It’s just And I, I didn’t have any idea about all of these things, right? I helped a lot of people over the years. I’ve walked with people. I Just saw the humanity in the process. I didn’t lean into divorce too heavily because I didn’t think that was something I would ever have to deal with.

Myesha Chaney: It was like, how can I be present for others? And it’s one of those things that you don’t know really what it’s like until you are faced with that choice until the circumstances presents

Nicole Walters: Yes, this is so true. And I, so I announced, you know, my divorce on social media as well, but I talked to my ex about it first.

Nicole Walters: You know, like I was like, hey, this is something that I think I’m going to reach the point where I’m going to have to share it. You know, and these are some of the different things I’m considering. Do you have any thoughts about it? You know, and he was like, yeah, no, it’s fine. It’s okay. You know, and, and we shared it online.

Nicole Walters: But, um, I will say that you’re right like knowing other people are going to have a perspective on it and especially in like a Congregation and I mean people don’t talk about a lot, but when you’re you know a pastor and a first lady like That’s also your job

Myesha Chaney: It is.

Nicole Walters: So like your income could be affected if people like disapprove of it like there’s just so much pressure that comes with the role And was that scary for you?

Myesha Chaney: It was, it was scary for

Nicole Walters: Mm

Myesha Chaney: because I didn’t know what was going to happen. I’m a recovery and control

Nicole Walters: Yes,

Myesha Chaney: A part of my background is didn’t grow up with very much. And I had finally gotten a stability that I had grown accustomed to. So no matter how my life looked on the outside or on the inside, it was my life.

Nicole Walters: and it was going to

Myesha Chaney: yeah, and any disruption was going to be painful for me.

Nicole Walters: when you had kids, we didn’t even had three kids and um, It was scary, but I knew enough to make the next right step.

Nicole Walters: it leads us to the next part. And part of why I wanted y’all to have that foundation is to hear that, you know, Myesha’s just like all of us, right? There’s no point in time in your life where you’re going to be like, Well, I’m going to wait until I have less going on to start making choices.

Nicole Walters: You know, no matter what you’re going to be called to make choices, which means we have to get really good at making choices,

Myesha Chaney: Mm hmm.

Nicole Walters: and that you’re literally one of the best people I know when it comes to deciding things like there is a quiet confidence about you that I think a lot of women on really aspire to whenever, it’s part of why they come to you because they’re like, not that you seem to have it all going on because we know, I mean obviously publicly, it’s not perfect, right?

Nicole Walters: But you’re able to almost pick up the pieces and still, still function and serve in a way that’s just really beautiful. So, um, that being said, how did you know? How did you know that it was time? And that’s a, I know that’s tough.

Myesha Chaney: through compounding losses. So we had the pandemic going on. We were in a multimillion dollar renovation. There was high stress. My sister has seizures back to back to back. She was in the ICU. My dad, who is the strongest man I know, had a stroke. We dropped him off at the emergency room, didn’t see him for another month after that.

Myesha Chaney: Um, there was death on my ex husband’s side of the family. His 37 year old, uh, sister in law died of brain cancer. His aunt died the same month. and it was just, One thing after the next thing, my daughter attempted suicide in that same season. I ran out. I was done. I had nothing else to give. I would I had been working one hundred and twenty percent of my capacity for years and years and years.

Myesha Chaney: And I finally got to my end. And in that season. It forced me to re evaluate my values. I had to sit down and say, Maisha, what kind of life do you want to live?

Myesha Chaney: And it was so overwhelmingly present that I felt like if I don’t make a shift, I’m going to die. I did not know. Divorce was even on the table. I hadn’t, I hadn’t even considered it.

Myesha Chaney: I thought, okay, you can figure this out. you can take a break. You can go on a sabbatical. I had never taken a break. I’ve been working since I was 14 years old. I had to have everything figured out. I had to take care of everybody else, all of these scripts, all of these narratives. And I started sharing.

Myesha Chaney: And by this time I had been in therapy probably for three years straight, getting courage to confront some real things in my life. I had started to build up the drivers to how do I make adjustments, what’s going on inside of

Nicole Walters: This is all I know,

Myesha Chaney: is all I know.

Myesha Chaney: And I’m figuring that out. So when I hit the wall, And there was no other place to go. It was like you either die or you make a

Nicole Walters: y’all. So I just want to call out that. I mean, you’ve taken us on a little bit of a journey there, right, and getting to that point of I have to die or make a change, you know, I relate to that, obviously, you know, I’ve shared so much of my story here about, you know, getting to the point where, like, my health is failing, my body is breaking down, it is dying, you know, so it’s, if I don’t make a change, this will end with me no longer being, right, so it was, I felt forced to do it just for survival, it was survival instincts kicked in, right, but So many of the women who come to you aren’t even all the way there yet.

Nicole Walters: There are signs that come before that and you actually called out one of them pretty early on that you said your values were starting to to become clear and you were noticing that they weren’t in alignment. Would you say that was part of therapy? Would you say that like it’s just all the compounding losses and how you’re responding to the losses that you were like?

Nicole Walters: Maybe I feel like my partner is and again, we’re not bashing in any way, shape or form because and I and I mean this about my partner as well, the way we responded to a lot of our compounding losses were just different. I wouldn’t say that they were wrong, but they were just different. And that when you have in tight quarters over and over and over again, Plus you get the reflective private time of therapy and prayer, you really start wondering, do I want a partner that responds more similarly to the way that I do?

Nicole Walters: Or do I need just a chance to do this myself and not have to worry about how my partner responds? Or do I need to grow and change and shift to respond more like my partner? You know what I mean? Like, so was, so where did the compounding losses fit in plus therapy and all that with really identifying your values?

Nicole Walters: Because it sounds like that’s the beginning of the process.

Myesha Chaney: confidence come from?

Nicole Walters: Okay.

Myesha Chaney: In order to survive, I just kind of functioned. I built a beautiful life from the outside,

Myesha Chaney: but the values from though that you’re talking about? The ones that you got in the beginning? Because you got married young. I think we should call I got married at 22. How old are

Myesha Chaney: met my ex husband at 18. We got married at 21.

Nicole Walters: so I mean, we both got married when we were babies, which when we look back on it now that we have kids that age, what were we doing?

Myesha Chaney: I have no idea. I have no

Nicole Walters: like, girl, I do not know.

Myesha Chaney: was sitting in somebody’s church, call myself leading

Nicole Walters: listen, you

Nicole Walters: know, have been sat down somewhere, but,

Nicole Walters: somewhere.

Myesha Chaney: just, I just mean a basic level. Like I deserve love and respect that I’m worthy. I do remember as an 18 year old feeling like the world was big and excited and passionate passionate about things.

Myesha Chaney: And, and I wanted to discover what, what this world had for me. And I think I did have the. internal infrastructure for my life. It did need development, but there was something there, The core of what it was

Myesha Chaney: of who I was was there. And so for about 15 years, I just was just numb

Nicole Walters: Autopilot. So it almost sounds like, and this is something that I think is really important. If, if you all don’t know, Maisha works with women. This is part of obviously not just her calling on this earth as, as manifested as being a first lady, but it’s the work she does privately now is she supports women in transition, women trying in discovery, you know, to figure out and get back to who they are.

Nicole Walters: It’s not the language of, you don’t know, it’s the language of reclaiming. And that’s what you’re telling me

Myesha Chaney: That’s what I’m saying. There was a core of a person because I thought it was easier for me to become what everybody else wanted me to

Nicole Walters: me to be.

Myesha Chaney: I started to chase that. So whatever the congregation needed, whatever my ex husband needed, then I had children right away. So whatever the kids needed, and it was less about me as a person and more about everybody else.

Myesha Chaney: I signed up for a graduate program and it was deeply deconstructive. It was a master’s in spiritual care, soul care and spiritual formation. And they required six months of therapy to graduate. I

Nicole Walters: Oh wow.

Myesha Chaney: I had to go on silent retreats. I had to do weekly groups. And you’re talking about a person who was spending 99 percent of my life taking care of

Myesha Chaney: everybody everyone else. When I tell you, listen, there’s a prayer that one of my friends, her name’s Glow Atonmo. I don’t know if you know her, but I love Glow.

Nicole Walters: And she was talking about how she prayed the other day. She was like, please, God, show me myself, expose me. That prayer, you know, we don’t like that one. It stresses me out, girl. And that’s what therapy is like. It’s like you go in there and you have this bubble, this room where it is not about anyone else.

Nicole Walters: And you’re just like, not you’re going to tell me about myself. I feel attacked here. Revealing.

Myesha Chaney: the whole six months and I never brought up my marriage. I was so trained. I never spoke of anything in my entire relationship to anyone alive

Nicole Walters: Wow.

Myesha Chaney: for a good we divorced at 18 years. That was for a good 13 years.

Nicole Walters: Okay, so let’s pause on this. We are often told in society that we are not to talk about our marriages elsewhere.

Myesha Chaney: longer say that.

Nicole Walters: Ooh, tell me more I don’t, I don’t agree with that anymore because it took a therapist to look me in the eye after I went five years to weekly talk therapy.

Nicole Walters: me in the eye. Wow.

Myesha Chaney: Okay. My last day was when my divorce was

Nicole Walters: you.

Myesha Chaney: session. This man, Walk me through everything he told me things were wrong that I did not even know were wrong So, how do you that’s when people tell me like you have to fight and I get it I used to preach it all the time that you tell your parents about it And then you reconcile with your partner and then now your parents are still upset about it It doesn’t I I paid somebody to hear me And I didn’t even know I needed it.

Nicole Walters: it. Ooh, so so this is so and I’m gonna share something that I’ve never shared before, but I had the same moment in therapy, where I went to therapy because in in my situation I felt like Something must be wrong with me.

Myesha Chaney: Ah.

Nicole Walters: is um, clearly unhappy. You know, and I hold the weight of trying to make that better.

Myesha Chaney: Uh And I also am not happy by extension because I’m, I don’t feel like I’m getting the partnership I desire. So let me go to therapy because, you know, I was the only person who went, I was, I went to therapy for eight years and I was the only person getting regular sessions every single week.

Nicole Walters: And so I was like, okay, I will, and I still go to therapy actually, like I’ve been going to therapy nonstop for over a decade. But. I went and there were a couple of really big pivotal moments that occurred in my marriage that I have yet to discuss publicly, you know, and I never shared them until Maybe a year after I’d filed?

Nicole Walters: No, maybe a year before I filed. And my therapist said, Do you understand that what you just told me now Colors everything else you’ve ever told me in the entire How on earth When you’ve been sitting here saying, I don’t know why I’m not able to do this for him. She’s like this has been the answer of why because this thing that occurred It was such a fundamental rift in the relationship that there’s no way You would have been able to do those other things and it affects the way It’s kind of like going to a doctor’s office and being like, I don’t know what’s going on with me doctor I have a lot of fatigue but not telling them that you eat like a terrible diet You know what I mean?

Nicole Walters: Like you need to know the means right? And so you’re telling me that It wasn’t until you had this sort of awakening first that gave you more clarity on your values. And then once you had that, you started, I guess, it sounds like, you know, especially with all these losses, everything you were learning about yourself, you’re responding to these losses. And then, and, and that was, I guess, leading

Myesha Chaney: Because as long as I was in the driver’s seat and in control, and as long as I could figure out a way and work it out, I didn’t have to go through the hardship of dealing with me. This was the first time that That everything was broken and I couldn’t fix it. And I looked to the right or to the left and the support that I needed wasn’t there.

Myesha Chaney: The understanding that I needed wasn’t there. And it was with a heavy heart. And I still thought, well, we can just figure it out. Because as long as we’re busy, as long as I was running, and as long as I was preoccupied, I couldn’t deal with what was really going

Nicole Walters: any

Myesha Chaney: There was no way.

Nicole Walters: on. Impossible way.

Myesha Chaney: of my life wouldn’t allow for me to think thoughtfully about the kind of marriage I wanted.

Myesha Chaney: This is the marriage you

Nicole Walters: it out. And

Myesha Chaney: And you’re going to figure it out and you’re going to keep on going. Well, this wall said. You have to reprioritize something or you’re going to die.

Nicole Walters: to die.

Myesha Chaney: it got so strong and so present

Nicole Walters: Couldn’t ignore it.

Myesha Chaney: that I started cutting things out of my life. We can no longer work together with my partner.

Myesha Chaney: We work together. It was my pastor. It was the father of my kids. It’s the head of my home. And the pie that was for my Isha got really, really small. It was like 10% of my life was for me, and I started to have a problem with that.

Nicole Walters: So that problem with it, did you not feel guilty? Because especially speaking of Christianity, and this is something that, you know, I’ll probably go into in a solo episode a little more.

Nicole Walters: this isn’t an indictment on the faith as a whole, right? Because I always say my relationship with Christ, Christianity, is super important. so fantastic, right? I just love Jesus top to bottom. However, people get on my nerves and their interpretation and application of who Jesus is, is what irritates me, right?

Nicole Walters: So knowing this as somebody in the church, the idea that divorce even comes on the table, you know, when you’re starting to know something is changing or something has to change, whatever it is, how do you reconcile that? Like real, like real talk, it’s a, it’s a difficult thing, especially in a pastoral role, you know, like to be able to say, and I, this isn’t an indictment or judgment, this is a question I had to face as well, because before making the, we’re answering the big question people have, how do I know it’s time?

Nicole Walters: One of the things, no matter, you’ve done all this identification, you still have to answer yourself with your faith too. Is this something that’s okay? Because society has told me it’s not, or in some areas, some versions of Christianity, you know, what does that look like to choose you?

Myesha Chaney: it went against everything that I had known. We teach a very sacrificial life and I started saying, but I’m not the living sacrifice. Not for this marriage, not for this faith. I got to the point so low that I thought I would rather go to

Nicole Walters: listen,

Myesha Chaney: I’m going to have hell on earth.

Myesha Chaney: I’m going to have hell on the other side. Either way, we are not doing this. inside of me, it was like the depths of my person was waking up and it was like, you wake Mm-Hmm. I would look at the congregation. I would look at everything we built. And I had I had such a broken heart over it all.

Myesha Chaney: Because I realized that if this has to cost me my faith,

Nicole Walters: faith,

Myesha Chaney: and this was a faith, this is two theology master’s degrees. This is 20 years of my life.

Nicole Walters: A congregation to your community and your family, everything.

Myesha Chaney: And this church was the only church I’d ever been a part of. I was born in this church. My mom, my grandparents, I had never even joined another church. So we’re talking

Nicole Walters: History. Everything.

Myesha Chaney: Everything to me, all the sacrificing the future, the promises of what we would become and what we would build and how we would help.

Myesha Chaney: And all of that was on the line. And to me, I don’t, I’m like, why would God do this to me? Where the choice for me had to be with everything I’ve ever That’s As the cost,

Nicole Walters: That’s right.

Myesha Chaney: I’m like, you could have given me a lower level, kind of

Nicole Walters: don’t we say this all the time? I’m like, come on, Lord. Alright, it feels like a lot. But what’s funny is, it feels like a lot, but it really, that price is never that

Myesha Chaney: Uh huh. It’s never,

Nicole Walters: new life will cost you your old one. And that is okay. And it’s interesting, because what you just said, Dr. Anita Phillips says that any trauma is, her definition of trauma, is anything that makes you question who Humanity, the world, or God, and so if you are experiencing some level of trauma, which again, you know, not saying that that’s happening, you can be in a relationship with someone who’s a good, great person, but if there is an alignment, it will cause a trauma and a friction in your life, one way or another, and so, you know, knowing that there’s trauma happening, it can be a good thing.

Nicole Walters: And you’re saying, I’m willing to give it all up. I think that’s something a lot of people don’t realize as part of, you know, to help you, you answer the question, if you’re listening, you know, if you’re saying to yourself, you’re willing to give it all up in order to have peace, that is one of your signs right out of the gate.

Nicole Walters: That it is time to

Myesha Chaney: So I wish I can say that I I mean, I, this is something I prayed about for many, many

Nicole Walters: Mm hmm.

Myesha Chaney: was one of those prayers of God, just help me, God be

Nicole Walters: There’s another way. There’s a different, anything.

Myesha Chaney: I’ve been praying those prayers. Okay.

Nicole Walters: yes, girl. Mm hmm.

Myesha Chaney: every prayer that I had prayed in my marriage and got

Nicole Walters: The easy route. I mean, listen, there’s even biblical precedent for that. You know, God prayed for everything. Jesus prayed for everything. He said, Lord, I do not want to die on this cross. I don’t want to. He specifically said, I don’t, is there another way?

Nicole Walters: Cause he’s human. He was like, I know what you are saying is to come to pass and I am not interested. And, and you can do something else. And he said, no. He said, this is what it is. And this is what you were sent to do. And he was like, okay. You know, and he went and did it. And mind you, he did that also knowing he would come back.

Nicole Walters: And he was still afraid to go through the pain of it. So all of us who’ve gone through divorce, just so you know, we’re all still standing here and we’re all on this other side of it, you know, and you, so you know, you’ll get through if you’re feeling this question about yourself too. And I don’t say this as an advocate of divorce, you know, I am an advocate of love and marriage.

Nicole Walters: To this day, but if you’re saying to yourself, is this something I need to do? Just don’t let the fact that you don’t think you’ll get through it be the reason you don’t.

Myesha Chaney: And I think, for me, I didn’t know 100 percent if divorce was the way. I knew 100%,

Nicole Walters: it to be everything else, but that though,

Myesha Chaney: I knew 100 percent that I had to take the next right step. And I just kept getting clearer on the next right step.

Nicole Walters: hmm

Myesha Chaney: I need to file. The next right step

Myesha Chaney: we long did it take you to file? It didn’t happen right away,

Myesha Chaney: it did not

Nicole Walters: Same here. I think a lot of women are also under that perception too, which is, so for me, it took me almost a year to file. And I think that surprised people too, because they think that when you leave or when you finally like say, okay, this is no more, that you like go the next day and file your

Nicole Walters: papers. And that’s not what it is. You’re

Myesha Chaney: I’m thinking about my children. I’m like thinking of other

Nicole Walters: Is there other ways? Like for me it was like well maybe we can decide without having

Nicole Walters: to go through the court stuff or maybe we can this but it’s like y’all like that’s not how that works.

Myesha Chaney: Yeah, because the pandemic happened in 2020 and my divorce didn’t get filed until 2022. So I was experiencing a lot of emotional change, a lot of questioning, a lot of wrestling, but I still in January of the year we filed said, let’s go to couples therapy

Myesha Chaney: because I thought.

Nicole Walters: You just want to be sure though, you know, I think we did couples where I want to know we did everything

Myesha Chaney: did everything

Myesha Chaney: possible.

Myesha Chaney: And that was not helpful for me. It was already well, it was just too late.

Nicole Walters: If anything couples therapy solidified it for

Myesha Chaney: you did

Myesha Chaney: for me, when you when the individual therapy meets the couples therapy you start saying Oh, wow, I’m sitting across the person sitting here is not the person pre therapy

Myesha Chaney: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Nicole Walters: that I’m here I get to really look at what I’m facing and I’m like, oh wow This is I am making the right call You Yeah, I think it was just like you said, knowing I’ve done all that I can do. And after that, it was, it happened pretty quickly. Everything just kind of fell into place and had to do the tough work. So when it comes to making decisions, I think I got laser focused on the next right decision. And I tried not to get overwhelmed.

Myesha Chaney: Mind you, I’m in a dark, dark place.

Nicole Walters: girl, the depression, I lost 22 pounds from not eating and people are looking at me on the internet like, oh, she’s looking good. Oh, she’s getting lipo. She’s on Ozempic. I was depressed. My therapist was literally telling me, you need to eat. And I was like, I

Myesha Chaney: it nearly killed It kills because I didn’t have the infrastructure.

Nicole Walters: of the things that you were experiencing?

Nicole Walters: Because this might be helpful too for anyone listening. People don’t recognize that your body breaks down from stress. And you’ve talked about this openly before. Some of the signs of stress and depression that you were experiencing in anticipation of this. And we’re only using divorce as a big decision, but y’all, this could be quitting your job.

Nicole Walters: Your job can still do these sorts of things to you. So what were some of the body

Myesha Chaney: I had a lot of brain fog. I was having hair loss. I was

Nicole Walters: Those edges. Gone, girl. What edges?

Myesha Chaney: the cortisol in my body could never really maintain weight. It was just, I would lose a lot of weight. Then I would gain weight back. I just, it was just a feeling of dis ease. There was something that was not working well. And my body was responding.

Myesha Chaney: Anxiety, feeling like the other shoe was going to

Nicole Walters: That’s

Myesha Chaney: Always kind of tensed up,

Nicole Walters: That’s right. Trust issues. You know, like,

Myesha Chaney: not feeling

Nicole Walters: How’s that work? Not feeling

Myesha Chaney: I was isolated. So when that, when that paperwork, when that announcement went out on social media, which I knew we were divorcing,

Myesha Chaney: I just didn’t know on that day at that

Nicole Walters: How we’re gonna handle entire world was going to figure, was going to learn about that people, friends I had that I had not

Nicole Walters: Then it’s like follow up phone calls, text messages, because also as a public figure, it’s a lot, you know what I

Myesha Chaney: I got a text message that said, I’m so sorry. I said, what are you talking about? And they said, it’s all over the internet. And I went on Instagram and I had a primal scream. I literally dropped to the floor and I experienced for the first time what it felt like for the world to completely open up underneath my feet.

Myesha Chaney: Okay. And it wasn’t just that the marriage was over. It was that my biggest fear had come upon me

Nicole Walters: That’s right.

Myesha Chaney: and everything that I had built in my old life was done. I didn’t speak to the friends that I had, the people I traveled the world with.

Myesha Chaney: So when it comes to making decisions in the midst of all of this breaking and caving in, I couldn’t even fathom a month from now.

Myesha Chaney: I just knew, wake up tomorrow.

Nicole Walters: when I tell you, I remember standing in my kitchen, coaching myself and being like, you need to eat something. You need to get out of bed today.

Nicole Walters: You need to go outside. When was the last time you went outside and breathed air, Nicole? I mean, there’s a healing point.

Myesha Chaney: I walked like 25, 000 steps a day.

Nicole Walters: That’s, listen, That’s the only way I the walking, right? So like, that’s the other part too, is there’s like, you know, in stages, there’s a, okay, gotta get out of bed. And then when you finally get out of bed, it’s, I just need to move.

Nicole Walters: I need to keep moving. And then before you know it, you look up and you’re like, where am I? I was walking from, if you’re from California, you’ll appreciate this, Marina del Rey to Santa Monica. I’m back walking. And like, and that’s not a crazy walk. Like people who are very fit can do it. But when I say like, I would blink and I look up and see the pier and be like, how’d I get here?

Nicole Walters: Do you know what I mean? Like it’s kind of a daze, you know, because you’re just trying to function like a human and animals do this. There’s like scientific studies that like animals will just start walking and roaming like and all of that. So. All that being said, and, and y’all, I hope you’re keeping track of this chain of events, and it really helps you is, you know, there was individual discovery that was happening in therapy, which was leading to a realignment of values that were always within.

Nicole Walters: So you always knew this, but you were rediscovering yourself. And then once you’d rediscovered yourself, it made it difficult for you to stay where you are once you knew something. about you. So kind of if you’re in your job, if you are like, man, you know, I hadn’t picked up a paintbrush in however long and now I’ve started doing watercolor and I can’t go to my desk every day. It’s because you rediscovered something

Myesha Chaney: It’s so true.

Nicole Walters: And so then after that it became, okay, I have to start, I guess, changing some things, creating some boundaries, some limitations. So for you, did that look like? starting to explore what your life, for me, it was, it was looking into what does my life look like now without this marriage?

Nicole Walters: You know, does it look like getting a new place? Does it look like, cause I also have my babies, you know, making sure they’re good. Like, what does that look like? Was that what you did next? Or did you just kind of say, Hey, you know, it’s over. So let’s just start executing. Like what came I had to do a lot of work in Boundaries. And surprisingly, a lot of that work came through friends and family, because my marriage was now over. So, how am I going to build this skill? In that relationship, co, co-parenting, dealing with divorce, all that. And I found that I got a lot of challenge or, or testing to see if it was working through regular people that I interface with. Let’s talk about that. Okay. We, I love a good boundary chat because boundaries completely. When I tell you, when you rediscover your personal values and a sense of identity, you start realizing how many people you let into your life that don’t care about your boundaries, that have their own

Myesha Chaney: it’s unbelievable.

Nicole Walters: It’s wild. Like, I mean, no no

Myesha Chaney: I didn’t have boundaries until like a year ago to

Nicole Walters: offended my own boundaries. I literally would set boundaries for myself and break them. Okay. I had no boundaries with me, you know? So, so I, this is the real, so what you’re telling me right now was before you even. Had to make calls with the big decision around the divorce you had to practice Some of this behavioral stuff with other people and I mean you are and this is part of why you’re such a good guide For this type of work because where you might go to therapy where you might be working with your you know Your pastor or whatever when you work with my a show what what is happens? You have someone side by side with you who knows how to put what you’re learning into practice And that’s the difference. So you’ve survived this. So what did it look like? Those conversations must have been hard because people did not know this, Myesha.

Myesha Chaney: because when I was a pastor’s wife, if someone came up to me and asked me to pray for them, and I said, no,

Nicole Walters: That’s not allowed. What are you talking about? That’s your one job.

Myesha Chaney: I would be talked about for, for weeks and weeks and weeks. If I be sat down. They’d be like, we need to talk, right. So it trained me to not have boundaries. It trained me to, to not look at what I

Nicole Walters: They’re always allowed

Myesha Chaney: I am not. I don’t feel like praying for you right now. I’m happy to do it. Amen. When it’s convenient for me. That would be, it’s asinine to

Nicole Walters: unheard of and also the not feel like part. I think that’s so often People don’t realize that just because I don’t feel like doesn’t mean I’m a bad person or don’t or that I don’t want to it’s That maybe you didn’t catch me in a good space. Don’t you want the best version of me to meet you in your moment? You do not want your pastor’s wife praying over you if she’s dealing with some stressor in her life,

Myesha Chaney: you know nothing about, that I can’t even speak about, don’t want advice from you on marriage. If your marriage isn’t going right, go solve that and, and get where you’re good to then speak to me. So, so you started practicing these boundaries with

Nicole Walters: others. How did that look for you?

Myesha Chaney: It was very, very scary. Um, I always wanted to be liked. I used to feel like I wasn’t attractive. I just wanted always people to value me from the outside, but I wasn’t valuing myself and I was expecting external fulfillment. In ways that I had not built that internally. So brown boundaries for me was even if you don’t like me, that was so hard for me to say, I can’t loan you money. I’m not going to be there at your wedding. I’m not, I’m not even going to answer your text message. And even now, if I, in the dating world, if someone doesn’t respond to me the way that I need to be responded to, I’m not even engaging with you ever again.

Nicole Walters: That’s right.

Myesha Chaney: And I would have never.

Nicole Walters: thought that you’d be there.

Myesha Chaney: Thought that I so it was scary at first it crushed me in a lot of ways because I had to finally say my issue You need to be enough for with me and until you have a better relationship with you stop looking outside

Nicole Walters: This is so good because I hope all of you are hearing right now that if you don’t have the ability to say no to things that you don’t want to do or if it fear fills you with like a anxiety or fear or concern or you’re a fierce people pleaser understand that whether it is your friendships your relationships, your, your business or your marriage. Being a people pleaser means that you’re likely in those situations allowing your boundaries to be crossed. It’s very difficult to have one and not the other. You can’t have a great workplace and also be a serial people pleaser with no

Myesha Chaney: you cannot And you know what was even more surprising about all this? When I was in ministry, when I worked with my ex husband, I could always blame him and I could blame the church and,

Nicole Walters: Toss it over there.

Myesha Chaney: being on my own and building my own business, it was like this, this is you.

Nicole Walters: Mm-Hmm.

Myesha Chaney: And if this client wants more than you want to give, you have to solve that.

Nicole Walters: to figure it out. Or if you wanna charge more, it’s up to you. You can’t toss it up, you can’t let someone else close it. You have to. And also you have to develop the skills that are a gap in between all of that. And also recognizing, I will say, at least for my own boundary work. Recognizing how complicit and responsible I was for a portion of the treatment that I received within my marriage. And that is so difficult because it’s so easy to want to blame. But if you, if you blame or if you, you know, shovel the responsibility on someone else, then you’re also not going to have change in your present, you know.

Nicole Walters: And that’s something that I’m learning from you and just kind of how you are really, You’ve grabbed the bull by the horns. You are moving forward with your life. You’re doing your own self discovery in order to make sure you’re living a life you want to have. So, so, but boundaries and people pleasing, like, whoo, hard. It’s hard.

Myesha Chaney: It’s hard, but it’s possible. And guess what? It has led me to discover parts of me to do. were there, but hidden all along. Like, I love being able to take charge in my life. I love being able to share and speak and tell people how I want to be treated. How I want to be handled and then making decisions that support that, that if you don’t handle me this way,

Nicole Walters: I’m not going to be here. I’m not going to be here.

Myesha Chaney: having good

Nicole Walters: Good luck. And it doesn’t mean anything about either one of us. When I tell you there’s nothing more freeing, and I don’t know if it’s like a divorce woman thing, but when you meet other women who are able to say, Good luck.

Nicole Walters: I may have gone through, sometimes when I find out like the truth about people’s exes, I’m like, wow, you talk about him so much nicer than he deserves. You know what I mean? Like you have no idea, like some of this and they’re just like, yeah, honestly, I’ve done my own work. So I’m aware of how I was complicit and I’m, and I knew what I was looking at and I knew what I was doing. And you just really learned that like, wow, these women are really on a different level. You know what I mean?

Myesha Chaney: I say it all the time. I wanted love and this was the way that I went about

Nicole Walters: That’s right.

Myesha Chaney: And it, and it, it was real to me and I thank God for every experience because I wouldn’t be sitting here right

Nicole Walters: That’s

Myesha Chaney: I’m very thankful and I practiced that throughout my divorce. I would say three things I’m grateful for and use it as a learning opportunity

Nicole Walters: That’s that I will not die and leave this life living a fraction of who I was meant to be.

Myesha Chaney: And if the cost of me living the life of, of who I was meant to be is doing a lot of hard stuff, I’m willing to do the hard stuff. It’s necessary. And it’s been great.

Nicole Walters: It has been great. You’re thriving. I love it. Um, if you guys don’t know, preachers of LA is actually, uh, coming back to the air for reunion special, and you’ll see a little, a little clip it of Miss Maisha on there. So definitely, you know, support, but also know that, you know, Maisha, I mean, we’ve touched the tip of the iceberg here, but I think a lot of people who may have been. sitting in their decision making now and are feeling stuck, are able to say to themselves, okay, cool. So the first thing I need to do is figure out what the heck is my, are my values, you know?

Nicole Walters: So if I don’t know what those are, I can go to therapy. I can, you know, they could work with you to kind of get some more clarity around it. But after they figure out their values, then they need to figure out what the boundaries are that they need to put in their life. And then really they’re ready to move. Now I know that you have a system where you walk people through all of this and you do like retreats and events. Can you tell us a little bit more about what your retreats are like? l n One’s coming up in Bali. I’m trying to I’m

Myesha Chaney: I know we’re about to go to Bali, but it’s about getting us out of our context and working through some of these things, giving clarity, putting an action plan. I’m an executor. My strength is you have multiple businesses. I mean you’ve you’ve what how big is your warehouse that you had it was. It’s a venue. It’s about 30, 000 square

Nicole Walters: Mean that is ridiculous. Like I mean so you have set up and executed whole businesses run congregations Manage your family manage yourself rebuilt a life. So I mean you really are a go to resource for You setting up these sorts of things, but you can’t do it without the right mindset.

Nicole Walters: So you go to these retreats and that’s what you work

Myesha Chaney: Yeah. It’s about life change. Bali was where I went to have my awakening.

Nicole Walters: ma’am. I went to LA. What was I thinking? This place is a mess. What is out here? What am I even doing? I was like, that was my budget, Polly.

Myesha Chaney: See, but you had to bring your light out It’s true. So can we talk about how so many women I know that’s a thing is like, when you are trying to figure out the next step, you just got to get out of wherever you. Oh yes. That is, was just so in the thick of it. I was like, I can’t even see here. I need to go 3, 000 miles away. You went 24 hour flight away. I did. And Bali was where I, I was like, okay, here’s the

Nicole Walters: Mm

Myesha Chaney: Here’s what we’re gonna do. It

Nicole Walters: Because there’s nothing around you. Like, I went to Marina, which is right by the water. I was like, I,

Myesha Chaney: Mm-Hmm.

Nicole Walters: There’s nothing else. No noise. And people think you’re crazy because, did you take your kids with you?

Myesha Chaney: I didn’t,

Nicole Walters: hmm. Neither did I, girl. So people, and people really think that’s nuts because they’re like, It’s such a different way to choose yourself, you know, because people are like, how could you do that? Like how could you go and not take your kids with you and all this but it’s like I’m unhealthy and I’m not Well, as long as my kids are safe and secure for that time frame Let me go build something that I can bring my kids into and it sounds like that’s what you did You got yourself well,

Myesha Chaney: And I put myself in the center of my universe for the first time ever. I think things are in balance now.

Nicole Walters: Oh

Myesha Chaney: And I can be a better mom, and I can be a cool friend, and a great daughter, and a sister, and it seemed like everything in my life Became more aligned, the more aligned I became with myself.

Nicole Walters: I think that right there is a point. So that said, where can people find more alignment? Where can they go to learn more about you? And I know that there are some women right now who are saying to themselves, I’ve got a decision. And if I can just take one step in the direction I need to take with this decision, it would change everything for me. And Myesha, I just need you to stand next to me. Where can they go to find more about you?

Myesha Chaney: You can go to my Isha Chaney dot com. You can find videos, all the things on Instagram, YouTube, any kind of social platform.

Nicole Walters: love that. And y’all will have the details in the show notes below. And of course Maisha, you know, provides that one-to-one support. And, uh, she’s available to talk. I mean, as you know, first Lady style, she’s great, but when it comes to having an actionable system that you can apply to move. From where you are to where you want to be and be unstuck and you know, it may not be divorced Maybe as a first lady, you are keeping people in their marriages, you know both ways

Myesha Chaney: Of

Nicole Walters: I love it because once you’ve been divorced you meet people who are like I’m struggling with this in my marriage and you’re like Oh, that’s not even a divorceable, honey. You just need to go to therapy real quick, you know, like get back in there I almost feel like I can keep people in their marriages now cuz I’m like no I know what the whole process is like you don’t want this

Myesha Chaney: Yeah, you’re like, you’re like, here, all you got to do,

Nicole Walters: Yeah, that’s right

Myesha Chaney: these few things and you’ll be good.

Nicole Walters: That’s right. You don’t even want the divorce process. You’re actually fine. Or this is normal. That’s the other part for the young ones. I’m always like, no, what you’re dealing with is actually normal. You’re just rushing to divorce, but this is just normal. Like yes, you’re living with someone now and obviously they’re not clean all the time. Like have the conversation

Myesha Chaney: I know. Figure it figure this one out.

Nicole Walters: So no matter where you are, whether it’s, you know, figuring out the job or the parenting or the next baby or whatever, my issue is a great resource for that. And I just am so blessed that you came here and shared. Your story so vulnerably with us and especially as a public figure, you know, it’s tough sometimes to expose ourselves and put ourselves out there, but it really is a blessing and, um, and I’m grateful that you show up the way you do. And you know, I’ll be texting and hitting you up too because I got decisions to make. All right. Thanks for being here.

Myesha Chaney: Thanks for having me.

In this episode, Myesha and I chat about:
  • The 4 steps Myesha took to realign her life,
  • Why discovering your values forces you to make decisions,
  • How to learn about yourself in therapy, and
  • Why making the next best decision is so tough and yet so simple
Resources and links mentioned in this episode:
  • Connect with Myesha HERE and on Instagram!
  • Grab my New York Times Bestselling memoir, Nothing is Missing, HERE!
  • Book a 20 min call to see if working together is the right next step for you!
  • The Misterfella and I did an extra special chat on where we are with growing our family. Don’t miss it – listen here or watch here
  • I love reading your reviews of the show! You can share your thoughts on Apple here!
More about The Nicole Walters Podcast:

If you’re looking for the strategies and encouragement to pursue a life of purpose, this is the podcast for you! Week after week Nicole Walters will have you laughing hysterically while frantically taking notes as she shares her own personal stories and answers your DMs about life, business, and everything in between.

As a self-made multimillionaire and founder of the digital education firm, Inherit Learning Company, Nicole Walters is the “tell-it-like-it-is” best friend that you can’t wait to hang out with next.

When Nicole shows up, she shows OUT, so tune in each week for a laugh, a best friend chat, plus the strategies and encouragement you need to confidently live a life of purpose.

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