Nicole:
Hey, friend. So today, I know I always start off by saying I’m so so excited to chat. And I am. But this particular chat I wanted to come in and kind of do real time. So sometimes I do these and they are like a week or two right before before the time they actually go live to you. But this chat I wanted to do kind of real time. Now, just this past week, I have the joy of celebrating my 28th birthday. Now, I know that so many of you are like what, Nicole? That’s crazy. Oh my gosh, I can’t believe you’re 28. You look 25, and just playing with ya’ll.I am a woman of a certain age. However, I am grateful for the many years of life that God has given me. And this past week, I had the opportunity to celebrate my 38th birthday. And it was a really good one. And I wanted to talk about some of the emotions that went along with it and what it’s like to celebrate a birthday when your life has changed, because I think that holidays, often mark whenever you’ve experienced a lot of change. So it’s why whenever a holiday is coming, we argue with our family, you know, like, well, there’s so and so coming or are they bringing the girlfriend or you know, whose house are we having it at?

You know, a lot of the reason why we start having those types of triggered conversations is because holidays symbolize tradition, they symbolize formulas and the formulaic and the norm. And the thing that we often struggle to realize is that life on the other 364 days of the year is far from it. So it’s why come this time of year, you start having those arguments about who’s doing what, who’s bringing what, what does this look like, where are we doing it? And it’s because we all are basing it off of information from a year ago about how we used to do it. But what has happened between that year and now.

So we’ve been having a lot of chats here. And you know that in just the past year, so much has happened. I mean, I am in Los Angeles, which means that this is going to be my first very Christmasy Christmas because for me Christmas is pine trees and snow and all the Hallmark movie stuff and I’m dealing with palm trees, you know, and beaches and all the things that don’t quite associate Christmas to me, but, you know, it’s still Christmas, right? Because it’s not just about what the holiday looks like. It’s about a little baby Jesus, you know, so knowing that it’s just kind of a recalibration in my mind around that change. But the tougher part of it, is that having the holidays, you know, in this situation means that I’m thinking about what’s going to happen with the kids. Right? I have all my babies and I’m their mama and that’s great and we’re whenever we’re together we’re good, right? But just thinking about this is going to be my first holiday without my partner you know without my ex you know, my was-band and that is weird. It’s weird, friend. And that’s what I wanted to talk about today is what it’s like having to experience things that have always been mile markers of holidays and fun and family and festivity. And do it without a certain family member because we, you know, lost them because they passed or lost them because of time and change, or lost them by choice, because we knew that it just wasn’t time for them to continue into the next chapter with us and what that’s like.

So I can’t think of a better way to explain it. Because obviously, you know, this time of year, we’re going into Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, we’ve got these sort of pointed, consistent holidays that we’re all celebrating, including, you know, Hanukkah, Diwali, like all these Kwanzaa like all these different things. But for me, I also have a birthday. And I don’t know if other people tend to experience this but for me, birthdays are not what you see on social media. They are not “Hey, girl, it’s me season” or and the kids, they don’t even say season anymore. They say sZn. They’ve abbreviated it, the hip, Nicole the tick Dockers. So you know it’s me season or people are like, Oh, it’s my birthday month. You know, I just, I’ve never been that person as much as I have a big personality. And I love having fun. And you know, I’m excited and energetic when my birthday comes around y’all who the blues, it’s almost like maybe 48 hours before I start dreading it. And I can even feel my belly flipping talking about it. Now I start feeling it. And I don’t know if some of you guys relate to this. I know a lot of people don’t but you know, this is it’s just real for us weird ones out there, you know, that are feeling it. My belly starts to flip I start getting nervous and anxious about it. I start wondering, oh, gosh, are people gonna like know, how do I keep it quiet, I started dreading all the things that come with birthdays for me. So I’m not excited about how my phone’s going to ring off the hook, I’m gonna get tons of text messages, I start feeling awkward about oh, gosh, someone’s gonna find out, they’re gonna say happy birthday. And then I’m gonna have to respond and be like, Thank you, you know, I start dreading the attention, the awkwardness, and all the things that go along with birthdays.

And I know that sounds crazy, because you know, a birthday is supposed to be a celebration of you, it’s supposed to be a celebration of your life and the accomplishment and maybe even another mile marker. And so it’s not fun to talk about. Because on this day, we’re supposed to say we’re grateful for another year of life, and I am, you know, I am. And, you know, we’re supposed to be all it’s my day, it’s me, but you know, I’m a mama. So it’s rarely my day, at least 100%. You know, and or we’re supposed to be sprinkling wisdom all over and talking about, you know, all the things we’ve learned. And I have to tell you, I’ve tried all those things. But the truth is, I get birthday blues. And the reason I get them is it’s one of the many survival tools that I’ve hardwired into myself. I haven’t celebrated a birthday or had one celebrated with or for me, since I was about 10 years old. And some of that is from poverty. It’s because my parents just

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financially didn’t have the funds to really make a big to do have a birthday. And when you’re younger, you kind of understand that you don’t understand it completely. And you recognize and see your peers, you know, still having parties and gifts and things of that sort. And you kind of wonder why you don’t have them, even though you know that the means aren’t there, but you kind of just don’t quite understand why it doesn’t come together. And what happens is you start tempering your hope, you start minimizing your expectation.

So while everyone else is tossing confetti and throwing around well wishes, you just kind of start to want to hide under the covers until the day of disappointment has passed. Because it’s you know, there’s a tension and there’s awkwardness and there’s anxiousness. And there’s all these things that are happening that are the opposite of what you feel. And frankly, you may feel even a little embarrassed that you’re feeling them and you know, birthdays and holidays are historically just not about you. And this continued into adulthood for me. I can easily say for the past 10 years of my life, 10, 12, 15 years, I haven’t had a birthday celebrated with me or for me. I haven’t had Mother’s days or Christmases or you know the way the holidays went for me were essentially… I’m a big gift giver. So I’ve always been the gift giver. I was the celebrator. I’m the one who watches everyone open their gifts really eagerly and with excitement and I’m always the one who tries to remember even the tiniest mention if you just sneeze a little thought that you like something. I will register it and I’m like, I’m gonna I’m gonna swing back around and make sure they get that and I always want to take these tiny wishes and make them big realities. But I also learned with that, that I shouldn’t get my hopes up that somebody would do that for me. Because you know, if my own parents didn’t do it, I know y’all right now, especially my therapists who are listening are like, Ooh, girl, girl, I’ve worked through it, we’re about to get to the good part.

But I just want to let you guys know that in case you’re unpacking some of this, I really, I know, some of you right now are nodding your head like yes, like, my expectation, especially as a mom, our expectations gets so low, that someone’s going to care for us. Our expectations get so low. If you are the child of immigrants, if you are a minority, if you are a woman, we don’t even realize sometimes how low our expectations are and how we have learned to manage our hope around somebody taking care of us or showing us kindness or acknowledging us. And that is simply because it hasn’t happened enough, we’ve learned to convince ourselves that we don’t need it, because we aren’t expecting it and/or hasn’t been given even when it’s due. And so you basically stop getting our hopes up. So you don’t have to deal with a broken heart. But you don’t realize that you’re breaking your own heart first. And all this while, I know that I’ve grown to say that I’m satisfied with it. I’m okay being empty handed. And I’m okay being forgotten, right. Because what’s truly Christian-like and motherly, and a proud child of an immigrant who’s grateful and thankful is to look at everyone else and all the gifts that they’re opening and everything and just smile down on them saying their joy is my gift.

And I want to let you know that that’s true. It really is like, I am so happy to serve people and to love up on them but that’s only partly true. And it’s only partly true for me. And it’s only partly true for you, friend. I want and I deserve my own joy. You hear me? You do too, friend. You deserve your own joy. You deserve to celebrate yourself, right? That’s important, we should celebrate, we should clap for our own dang selves. That is an important thing we should do. But you deserve to be celebrated too. It’s not okay to sit there and watch everyone open a gift and nobody remembered you. It’s not okay for Mother’s Day to come and go and no one even said thank you. It’s not okay that people forgot your birthday, you matter and you deserve to not be forgotten. And it’s not just in the gifting. Frankly, it’s not even in how many people texted you or how many comments or likes you received. It’s not about the actual little quantifiable, countable actions. It’s about knowing that you deserve them one way or another.

The concern here is not so much that we live our lives, expecting gifts or wanting gifts and feeling like we’re lacking because we didn’t get them y’all nothing is missing. What matters is that you know that whether or not those gifts come, you deserve them. And the concern is convincing ourselves that we deserve to live without. I want you to know that this year, I woke up with the blues. Because I have less than before. But I also have more than I could ever imagine. Materialistically I mean, I’m still blessed, I have homes, I have items, you know, I have all those things. But man, divorce is hard. I don’t know what’s going to be here tomorrow. I don’t know what I’m going to have to work to get back. I don’t know what messages or emails are gonna pop up on any given day or you know, if my own heart is going to be broken, or if my kids hearts are going to be broken. I do not know what tomorrow will bring. But I do know that I still have a peace that surpasses all understanding. I do know that without fail, love is going to be there beside me. I do know that my babies are happy, healthy and whole. And I can tell you that the joy that I have is overwhelming. And the love abounds.

I have my three sweet girls and my dear Misterfella, right. And all my birthday my family and friends were buzzing my phone endlessly. And all of you showed up to in my DMs and in the comments saying happy birthday. And instead of me thinking for the very first time like this is awkward and I don’t know what to do with all this. And you know, it’s so nice to have all these internet friends you know, an internet Auntie showing this love. But what about the people closest to me? Well, the people closest to me showed me love too and I realized that with all the changes that had happened the holiday was better than before. God is so good y’all. And I want to let you know that for all of you who are coming into this holiday season, maybe dreading the auntie or the uncle that won’t be at the table or even more dreading the auntie or uncle that will be at the table, you know, or wondering if you can handle hosting this year or if you’ll be able to, you know, keep it together. While you remember the dish that doesn’t quite taste quite the same as when mom was here to make it.

And I want you to know that this year for my birthday, my new guy, Alex, he took me out. And it was a surprise and y’all I hate surprises. I hate surprises, because the awkwardness of it all like, what if I hate it? What if it’s no good. And you know, it’s the control freak in me. And he surprised me. And he took me out and there was dinner and a show and just activities and fun. And you know, he took me some place fancy and I was like, This is too fancy. And then he took me to pizza. And I mean it when I think about what it’s like walking down a Los Angeles City street eating a slice of pizza, and holding hands and thinking to myself a year ago, three years ago, I was sitting on a couch alone with a glass of wine, wondering if this is what the next 50 years would bring.

As much as everything is so deeply wrong. It’s wrong. From the picture of what I thought it’s not the table that I thought I’d have this Thanksgiving. And it’s not the home or roof that I thought I’d have over my head. And it’s not the hand that I thought I’d be holding. But you know, everything is so right. It’s so deeply right. It’s so aligned. It’s so exactly who I need to be today, in this moment, to get me to tomorrow, I’m learning what I need to learn to be the person that I need to be. And the same thing applies for you. If the only thing you learn in these difficult moments is that you can get through them and that you can come out on the other side better, and that joy doesn’t disappear and that grief and gratitude can coexist, well friend you’re doing and learning everything you need to know.

Everything may be wrong, but everything is also right. And most importantly friend, nothing is missing. The holidays are coming. I have so much faith in all the goodness that is going to be in the moments even with the hard stuff. So I’m excited to enjoy them with you. Keep me posted and send me pics in the DMs. I love to see what’s happening with you and my little internet nephews and nieces. So friend, let’s keep after it. We’re doing it together. And I’ll see you next week.

Nicole:
Hey, friend, we have been having some pretty solid chats week over week but I also want to call out some of the great chats that we’ve been having in my DMs. And you guys have been sending me some awesome messages in my inbox. And I’m just so thankful for how supportive and kind and loving and vulnerable you all have been with me, I have had some conversations with you recently, as I’ve been sharing what starting over is like for me, both in divorce, but also in being a single mom, you know, because I have my kids full time and in starting over just sort of figuring out how I want to enter this world, in this new phase of my life.

And a lot of you have shared that you’re going through your own version of starting over, even if it’s just re entering the world post pandemic. And one of the questions that’s been coming into my inbox a lot this week, particularly after I’ve shared that I’ve, you know, met someone, and I’m kind of, you know, in a much better place, even though I’m still recovering and engaging with this divorce process. But what I wanted to share was the question that kept coming up, which is Nicole, like, how do I even position myself for a breakup? Right, not just a divorce, you know, but if I realized that I have a transitional season ahead of me that I need to move from where I am to where I want to be, what do I do? How do I even get to a place where I can make those moves, you know, whether it’s just acquiring the courage, but also acquiring the steps and things that I need to get to that next place.

And I wanted to touch base on that a little bit. And I think maybe later on in the season, I might tap a couple of my friends who can come on here and chat about some of those actual logistics that you need to have ready so that you’re able to prepare yourself, you know, not just for divorce, but literally like, you know, quitting your job or ending a friendship or anything of that sort. But I wanted to speak to some of the things that I was going through, and have gone through and am going through, you know, we’re gonna keep it real, you know, that really, you have helped me embrace this process. Because even though it’s a process that I did not want, and that caught me off guard, and that, you know, is unexpected, and not how I saw my life planning out at all. I have to embrace it, because it’s here. And it’s easier said than done and it

took me a while to be able to say that sentence. But I wanted to talk about that. How do we embrace the difficult things that are in front of us? And what tools do we need to actually be able to survive this process and even better thrive.

So friend, if you are thinking that you’re in a place where the relationship you’re in right now doesn’t serve you or your future, that’s the first step. The fact that you’re even saying to yourself, you know, what, I have questions about whether or not this is going to be all that I need it to be, so that I can be my best self. And what I found is that that is the first thing you have to reconcile and that question I’m telling you can take you years to answer. So if you’ve been wrangling with that, for the first year of your marriage, like I was all the way through for over a decade, or if it’s just something that’s come up in the past few months in the past few weeks, I want you to know that there’s nothing wrong with having that question. One, it doesn’t mean you’re gonna get a divorce. Make no mistake, I loved being a wife, I am a proponent of marriage. And I am not a quitter by nature. I wasn’t sure if I was in the right marriage early on. However, I was married for over a decade after that. And it wasn’t a not good marriage the entire time, whether it was the right fit marriage, you know, hindsight is 2020. But I do want you to know that I believe that sometimes having questions come up means that you’re able to target the things that you need to know to fix, to possibly be exactly where you’re supposed to be within the marriage.

As a matter of fact, you know, a lot of studies have shared that. If you have a relationship where you aren’t talking about problems, that’s a much bigger indicator that you will get divorced than a relationship where you actually are discussing your problems and having problems because it means that things are in the open. And we’re not being naive about the fact that things aren’t okay. So, so don’t sit there and think that just because you’re even considering what it would look like to make changes in your life, that you are headed for divorce, that may not be the case. But you do need to get answers for how you feel about that. So for me, it took years to get those answers. And that’s part of why it took me so long to actually be where I am today. I was experiencing different things within my marriage and I knew what they were but I always felt like maybe I could change them, which I think is you know, this is my own personal trauma, my own personal trigger and may resonate for some of you. I am such a fixer that is my nature you know call it control freak, call it you know, anxiety, you know, there’s lots of different manifestations of you know what it is I’m being candid about it because it doesn’t serve me too, to be shameful about the fact that I have those attributes. I see a problem, I see someone struggling, I see someone having hardship in their life and I am ferocious about providing solutions, to the point where I need to. And I have learned that I need to mind my business and let people fail sometimes, because that is the best way to serve them.

But in my marriage, it was really important for me whenever my partner would communicate that there was something that needed change, or fix or a struggle, or something of that sort, that I was doing what I could both from a proverbs 31 biblical standpoint, you know, to try to be that checklist of wife, but also engaging in therapy and, you know, moving homes and, you know, creating financial wealth and doing all the things that I thought might aid in creating a better environment. So that’s kind of the first piece, if you feel like there is a checklist of things that could be in the way of helping you really see your marriage for what it may be good and bad. Make a list and get those things out of the way. And the reason I say this is and understand and I should throw out a disclaimer here, I’m not speaking to a marriage or relationship that has physical violence. I’m not speaking to a marriage or relationship that has serious and massive addiction that is unchecked. I’m not talking about a marriage relationship that has severe emotional or financial abuse, or any type of child abuse or anything of that sort. Those are categorically and entirely intolerable. And you absolutely should seek support, there are domestic violence hotlines, you can speak to a peer, you can head to a fire station, you should get help, because those are not safe circumstances for your life and well being and you should leave immediately.

And I say that unwaveringly and without question, I know, it’s not easy to do. And I know it’s easier said than done but your life is worthy, and you are deserving. And if you are in a situation where you are feeling unsafe, and you make plans for what would happen to you, that means that you need to go to safety, just to have the mental clarity about the next steps. And that is something that you should pursue. Now what I’m speaking to is a marriage that is not emotionally or mentally fulfilling, and may still have elements of emotional abuse or elements of anger, or tantrums or mental instability, or narcissism or things of those sort, where there may be an incompatibility issue, or there may be an evolution issue where the relationship is just reaching its expiry, because you’re evolving into different people.

Or honestly, for some people not evolving, you know, that’s, that’s also a very real thing. So that checklist that I’m discussing, really, for me, what that was about speaking from my own experience was, I wanted to make sure that I had done everything. That if my partner came to me, you know, and said, Look, I don’t know about this marriage, I’m unhappy, that I’d be able to look them in the face and say, I got nothing left, I got nothing left. And I don’t know if this is the place that I need to be any more for my well being because I have done it all. And so that for me, that list included therapy that included making sure finances weren’t in the way because you know, the number two reasons that people get divorced is money and infidelity. So being faithful was important to me, as well as making sure that I, you know, that we weren’t worried about finances, you know, and that was something that, you know, wasn’t an issue in our relationship. So I knew that we weren’t arguing about the money. That wasn’t the problem, that you know, all of our needs, you know, in a material sense, at least were being met. So, and of our children as well.

So knowing this, you know, creating the time to be together, all those bullet points, you know, if you find yourself saying, Look, I haven’t really done a lot of these things to the best of my ability. Well, then the next question becomes, you know, well, what does it look like for me to have an ideal life outside of this marriage. And understand that these are all exercises you can do within this within where you are right now. Now, this part, I really, really, really want you to hear me out on. There is a fantasy outside of marriage that will not be a reality. Hear me, friend, the fantasy is not your reality. If you think that you’re going to get divorced, or break up or quit your job, and suddenly become a billionaire, and not have kids and lose all this weight, and finally start that

business and be a superhero. Those things could happen, but they’re not going to happen overnight. You will go down before you go up. You will experience hardship before you experience greatness. You will have a moment in the valley before you reach the mountaintop. And I want to let you know that you will survive all of those hard things because we do hard things well, because it is hard to be in that marriage. It is hard to be in that breakup. It is hard to be in that job. But it is also hard to start over. It’s about which one is fruitful. It’s about choosing the right hard for you. So I don’t want you to glamorize what you think this other world would be like. But also know that you should be honest with yourself about elements that exist there that you do not have.

So for me, when I found myself outside of my marriage, the one thing that I recognized that I had that was amazing and unexpected and priceless to me, even though there was so much that I felt like I’d lost, was peace. I had peace of mind, a peace that was inexplicable, a piece that felt God sent. A joy that was absolutely freeing. I didn’t have a worry or concern about what I’d be able to do in the future, because I felt limited by where I was. I had a peace of mind where I could rest easy knowing that ultimately, as complicated as things were, it would be okay. And for me, that was a tremendous thing where I said, I could never let this go again. That’s how I knew that, you know, moving forward would make sense for me, because I had peace.

After you’ve got a sense on, have I done the things for where I am, and after you get a sense of do I have an idea of where I’ll go, the next piece are just the steps. And I want to give these steps from my therapist, because she told me that there are three things you’re going to need to survive a divorce, if this is going to be the thing that is in front of you. And those three things were this. You’re going to need friends. I have to let you know that difficult relationships, oftentimes, especially if there are anything like mental health issues, or narcissism or emotional abuse, or any of those things that you may be encountering. They can be very isolating. So you’ll find yourself sort of going home and coming back or going to work and doing these things. And really, your family becomes all that you are. And you find yourself spending less and less time with friends, or maybe less time with close family members. And you realize that, you know, your world was very limited to where you were. And for me, I think it was surprising because the minute I found myself in a divorce situation, I was shocked at how much love was around me.

Oh, y’all, I truly did not realize how I wasn’t leveraging the love that God had already put into place. And I do not lack. I lack nothing, y’all in terms of love, and I am so grateful for it. Because I know that that is a true privilege and a blessing. I am surrounded by friends and family. Just abundant, abundant, abundant love. And I want to let you know that friends are a critical element of getting through this time. They will stand in the gap, they will tell you the truth, they will remind you who you are. Because in this season of transition, you will feel like you are losing sight of self. But it’s only because you’re losing sight of who you once were in a situation that did not serve you. So it’s not that you’re losing who you truly are, it’s that you’re stepping into who you will need to be. And your friends can help you be a compass towards that because they see you as your best self.

And so friends are a critical element to and frankly also they help with things like moving or giving you a break with the kids, or you know that phone call or a shoulder to cry on. And you know, my friends already know when I tell you I don’t think I could have gotten through this season without them. And I’m just so so blessed and so thankful for the friends that I have. Another thing you’re going to need without question is a great therapist. Now I know so many of you are like therapy is expensive. I don’t know if I can afford it. I want to let you know there are tools like openpathcollective.org. It is a online resource that helps you find us licensed and certified therapists that often work on a sliding scale sliding scale means that they can adjust their price point to your income meaning you can find therapists who are willing to have sessions with you for as little and I say little but I recognize that money is different for everyone and I want to honor that privilege that I have there. But $30 a session and I know $30 it used to be a tank of gas y’all but you know $30 isn’t a little bit of money. But when you talk about your health and well being being priceless you know it may be well worth spending.

Also if you have health insurance, even if it is a government resource health insurance, there often is a mental health and behavioral services that is an element of that as well that will give you a limited number of sessions you know around particular issues. If you are an employee of a company, there are health insurance benefits said are often there as enhanced benefits that can give you some access to mental health resources. But without a doubt, you know, friends and family are great, but they are not a licensed clinical therapist. And for me, being able to I’ve been in therapy for eight years, and I’m a big proponent of it, but you know, the things that I’ve required assistance with have shifted through the years. Childhood, business, parenting, but you know, in this and also my relationship, but you know, now I’m, I’m really in therapy for the first time as an adult to learn and grow and become who I am as an adult. And therapy has really helped me with that it’s given me language, to define some of the experiences that I’ve had in my relationship and outside my relationship that really has helped me shape my new relationship, not bringing those things in. And also shaped, you know, how I’m going to approach my future, you know, and the people around me.

So therapy is just a huge tool, because it’s such a journey with highs and lows, and you’re going to need it, and you’re going to need to embrace it, honestly. So so many people are in therapy, and oftentimes, we want to dictate how the process goes. And the best way to have effective therapy is to sit in it with humility, to be able to say, Listen, I’m here to grow. And I am here to accept. And I am here to learn. And that means sitting there and sharing a situation honestly as it is, and then allowing that conversation to organically develop in a way that allows you to hear difficult truths. Know that your therapist is never there to cause you harm. And your therapist is never there with an intention to say things that are deliberately going to cause you discomfort, because they want you to feel that. They’re there to be an insightful light based on their professional experience to help direct you to an understanding of self that can help you engage in the world in a way that is meaningful, fruitful and beneficial to you.

So, you know, if my therapist says something to me, where I’m like, Oh, girl, what are you trying to attack me on today, you know, I’m able to say to myself, you know, because I really love and engage in therapy, and I really want to be my best self. Oh, if I’m feeling some type of way about that, that means that she hit on something that I really need to embrace and unpack, you know, and I say that like, oh, that made me feel a feel, I think I need to unpack that. And so you know, therapy is tremendous. And you will need some sort of clinical support. It’s a real must to help get through this time.

And then the last thing that my therapist said you need after friends and therapy is faith. And you guys know I’m a God girl. I say that, you know, clearly and it means that I am accepting because Jesus is and it means that I am loving of you as you are where you are LGBTQIA every letter, every color, every faith, you name it, the alphabet, I love every single interview from your nose to your toes, unwaveringly, as you are. I support you as well. But it also means that I am very clear on the calling of my life and who I answer to and who I belong to. And my faith is driven by the Lord. And I’m so so grateful, because I’ve seen and experienced things that have transformed me, including during this process. And, and I can tell you that having faith, whatever that means for you, even if that’s faith in the future, or a manifestation process, I obviously am a proponent for Christianity, because it’s a language that I understand. But I don’t want to limit the journey that you’re on with your faith and understanding of the world and your experience of it. And I want you to know that having faith means that you are able to have belief outside of self that things can work in your favor.

I really want you to hear me when I say that. It’s critically important when it feels like the chips are down, that you have belief that things will work in your favor outside of yourself. If you think that the world only works, your favor, someone does something for you. Or if you are dependent on another situation, or that you feel fundamentally incapable of good things coming forth. It’s really hard to find the happy in the hard. And you deserve to have that happy. Frankly, you’re going to need it if you’re going through any type of transition or breakup, work career, marriage, you name it. And so having faith at least for me, knowing that after I’ve done everything I can when I rest my head that God’s got it, no matter how it turns out, y’all, I could end up, actually I’m not even gonna speak this over my life. Listen, like I the worst of the worst could happen to me and as long as I have God, my babies and my health, I have everything and having that faith keeps me fueled. It gives me the fuel to keep going, for my babies, for my business for our friendship here. And I want to let you know that I’m not a perfect Christian, Lord knows I’m a hot mess. I’m not perfect in my practice of faith. I don’t always make it to church, sometimes I’m in the balcony, I’m definitely in the overflow parking lot. And you better believe it’s late service. I’m definitely the type of Christian who says a cuss word who, you know, does all the things that we’re supposedly not supposed to do, but he loves me just the same. And I want you to know that faith has truly been something that I’ve embraced and leaned into, you know, especially on those hard days when I just don’t understand how things are playing out. And I don’t know why I am where I am. Faith has really kept me going.

And so friend, I just wanted to have this one to one chat with you, because so many of you have been in my DMs and so we’ve been talking about it, you know, Nicole, how do I know if it’s right to go? How do I know if I need to say how do I get the courage because I know I need to go?

How do I do it? I just want you to know that I’m gonna say the same thing to each of you and I want to say it here today. You are good enough friend, if you stay. You are good enough friend, if you go and it’s going to be hard to stay and it’s going to be hard to go. You just have to choose your hard.

Friend, you are deserving. You are worthy. And you are so so capable of doing hard things well. If nothing else, borrow my belief until you find your own.

Nicole:
Hey, everyone. I am so excited because today we’re having a very, very special chat. We have a friend here with us on the Nicole Walters podcast, Miss Nishelle Turner. Nishelle, thank you so much for being here today.

Nishelle:
Thanks for having me, Nicole. I appreciate the offer.

Nicole:
Oh, my gosh, it’s incredible. We have so much stuff to talk about. And y’all, you know, Nishelle Turner trust. You have seen her you have heard her. You have you have walked into rooms where she’s been in the background, and you may not have realized it now. Nishelle, she has tried and true in the game. She is the current co-host of Entertainment Tonight. And like us, she is a real woman every day with accolades and a lot of work to get where she is. So, Nishelle, can you tell us a little bit more about your role at Entertainment Tonight for anyone who hasn’t put two and two together yet?

Nishelle:
Well, the funny thing was I thought you were about to say she’s a real woman with ass, like this fine.

Nicole:
No accolades! Okay. Accolades. Okay. Assets. Okay. Absolutely. So, okay, so, um, just, you know, for people to understand a little bit about your role, I mean, people assume what coasting is, but based on the conversation we’re about to have here today, I really want to get clear on the definition of what you do every single day.

Nishelle:

So yeah, so, so being the co host, or the host of Entertainment Tonight is, you know, you see the person where when you first turn on the TV, and you see that versus a welcome to Entertainment Tonight, and, you know, this is what we’re starting with and the ins and outs of all the pieces and kind of the people that you see throughout the show, myself and Kevin Frazier. That’s what you know, the host of the show does. When I first came to Entertainment Tonight, I came from CNN, which I actually didn’t fully come from CNN because I still work at CNN, but I came from CNN and I came here to be a correspondent and I hosted the weekend edition of Entertainment Tonight so I would do like I feel pieces. I’d be more so doing like red carpet stuff and whatnot. Every day for ET when I first came in that I would host the weekend show and now I am in the studio more so every single day because I host the show I still do other you know field shoots and things like that. But like tomorrow is a crazy packed day I’ll be hosting the show and then going out interviewing George Clooney and Julia Roberts doing the podcast that I have. And then going from there and doing another interview with Chuck Lorre from the big bank. Yes, love and so it’s like one of those it’s crazy day. Yeah. We have Yeah, yes. Definitely happened. So it’s just a little more responsibility if I’m being honest. Yeah. And paycheck. Yes.

Nicole:
Nothing wrong with that. Listen, we got like a coin. You’ve seen the prices of milk these days. This economy is crazy.

Nishelle:
Okay, so first of all, I walked in to get and I didn’t really drink soda. But I walked in to get like some diet ginger ale, and it was $8.

Nicole:
It makes no sense. I went in I remember the days and I my age myself. Here were eggs were like $1 or like 89 cents. You know, for 12 I went in and I’m not kidding. They’re like, you know, the good eggs, the ones where they like sing to the chickens and ask them nicely for their eggs. Those ones were like, we’d be like $7 like 679 And I was like, how much is a whole chicken? Just give me I feel like a whole chicken that’s alive. That lays eggs cooked me more than $15 Just give me the chicken. It’s just great. These fries are good. So we are all collectively excited for our friends coins. Hooray.

Nishelle:
Hooray. I’m a proud capitalist.

Nicole:
Listen, you got to do what you gotta do. You’re working and you’re making that money. So, um, but all that said, I What I’d love to dive into is there are so many people out there who would love to do what you do. And or at least love to do what they think you do, which I get this all the time, right? People are always like, Oh, but Nicole, how can I end up on stage? How can I end up? You know, with a book deal? How can I end up with a TV show? Nicole? How do you know? Because this is my passion. And it’s like, first and foremost. I am not about limiting anyone’s possibilities. Lord knows. I don’t think any of us if we had ever said what we wanted to be when we grew up would have nailed it. Exactly. Because things have evolved so quickly. You know, and I mean, none of us could even said podcast, you know a couple years ago because it wasn’t a thing. So all that said in relation to you, right? Tell me a little bit more about what you do off camera because a lot of people think that being a host is just the shine time. It’s hair and makeup. It’s getting up there. It’s talking. If you’re lucky, a teleprompter, you look good. You leave. And they forget how much happens, meetings and calls and paperwork. So tell us a little bit more about that stuff.

Nishelle:
Right. Yeah. I mean, people do think that and I will say first and foremost that hair makeup time is my least favorite time. Listen, same same. You know, I love my glam team. But I don’t really love what they do. Because I feel like they’re I have 15 Other things that I could be doing. Yes, in the day.

Nicole:
Kim Kardashian has a body double getting, she literally has someone with her measurement. She has some with her measurement who tries on her clothes for her because she just has not tried to do it. I get it. Well, no, I will. Neither of us we don’t have it yet. I’m trying to you know, go she’s growing people on a farm in Indonesia to try on her clothes. Okay, I don’t know what she’s doing. I’m just saying. But hair and makeup is not that everyone thinks it’s great. It really isn’t.

Nishelle:
No, I don’t enjoy it. I really don’t. And listen, I’m not, you know, Pooh poohing what they do. It’s a privilege. It’s a privilege. It’s a skill, what they do, like, It’s wild. How good they are. Yes, I don’t enjoy.

Nicole:
We don’t enjoy sitting still. That’s the truth.

Nishelle:
No, I don’t. Um, but you know, when I, my day starts usually at 7am. And that’s when we have our first meeting of the day, we have a morning meeting where we go over, you know, what we’re going to do on the show that day, what we think should be in the show, we talk about what, you know, stories are happening, what things we have, what ideas we have, and that’s at 7am.

Nicole:
And your morning probably starts at like four then probably. I love that you say your day starts at seven. I’m like You mean you are at work at seven. Your first meeting is at seven. Right?

Nishelle:

Exactly, exactly. And so we do that. And you know, we’re all expected. But my day does start much earlier than that, because I get up and the first thing I do when I get up is I read the trades, I remove all the trees, I treat this this job like it’s a beat. You know, like, if you’re at CNN and you are a political reporter, or anywhere and you’re a sports reporter, or if you’re you know, if you are a hard news reporter when you get up the first thing you need to know is what the hell was going on.

Nicole:
What happened while you were sleeping.

Nishelle:
Absolutely. And so I get up and I read the trades I not only read, you know, I not only look at like, you know, internet sites or whatever, I also read the business trades I read it I read The Hollywood Reporter I read those because there’s a lot going on. So I read all of those. And then I also go over are the note that sent out from us at night like what we’re trying to accomplish overnight. And then the note that goes out first thing in the morning of you know what we’re trying to do. So when you go into that seven o’clock meeting, you are kind of armed with a lot of different things.

Nicole:
And informed. So I think that’s something a lot of people and I’m hoping for, not just the mamas out there the you know, everyday folk who are saying this to their passion. But if your teenagers are listening, and they’re like, oh, all I need is a YouTube channel. All I need is a podcast. No, this is what it looks like. There’s actually some research.

Nishelle:
There are some of those people out there who are in this business. Oh, for sure. It does give me It irritates me a little bit. I will say both Kevin and myself. Are journalists. Absolutely. With a degrees world. Yes, yeah, we both come from the news world. You know, Kevin started out. As a photographer, I started out as a one man band, where I, you know, I shot and edited and wrote and did all my stuff. You know, myself, I would get up, I was an assignment editor, I go out and report. I’d come back and anchor the news and, and write it all myself, you know, and when you first start out, and you’re in very small markets, you knew all of that. Yep. So like, that’s the world we come from. So that’s what we know. Yeah.

Nicole:
I want to just take a moment there to honor that. Because I think that this is one of the things I talk to my kids about all the time. I absolutely love that we live in an age now where you know, with the right stroke of luck and the right piece of content, your life can change. I benefited from that in many ways. But it also doesn’t mean you can’t skip steps. I’m also corporate trained, you know, and there’s a reason why I can do what I do. And I also do research and I practice and I have a coach and I work hard so I can get better every single day on stage. And it’s so interesting, because I do think that one of the challenging parts is that people feel like, they wonder I should say whenever I get clients, they wonder why they run into some of the issues they run into. And it’s because they don’t have the knowledge that is formulated in those early days from doing all of the jobs. It’s the truth.

Nishelle:
I tell people all the time you know, don’t make the mistake. I am celebrating this year 25 years in this business. Wow. You know can still crack Yeah, look, I may not look like you but I’m 47 years old. Oh wow. I didn’t come you know, I’ve been an Entertainment Tonight going on nine years, but I came here when I was, you know, I think it’s 39 years old. Oh my gosh, you know, so this isn’t, you know, I didn’t just jump into this thing. Just get something overnight business for a very long time.

Nicole:
And you didn’t start that Entertainment Tonight?

Nishelle:
Yeah, I didn’t no, I started in Evansville, Indiana.

Nicole:
Which I love to tell people because, I mean, honestly, like, you know, I’ve got a 20 year old and a 23 year old. And both of them, you know, one actually was going the accounting route, you know, but they all started with that, well, I want to have a blog, or I want to have an Instagram page. And I was like, you know, I want to let you know that that’s not starting at the bottom anymore. You know, like people think starting with zero followers, the bottoms Oh, no, honey, starting with nobody knowing you anywhere in an office where you are heading out coffee is the bottom. I mean, like, you’re missing those days, you know, or like you’re saying, learning you’re editing, because you’re having to do the editing, you know, this is, these are the steps you can’t miss. But it almost seems like people want to focus really hard on being the image, they want to be on camera, and I’ll just hire out the job. So the other thing is, well,

Nishelle:
No, it’s true. It’s true. It’s true, because so, you know, kind of getting back to the day after you have the morning meeting, and then I usually do after that get, you know, hair and makeup. And then I come back and I’m prepping for the show. So I’m writing going over all the scripts, I’m writing, I’m, you know, adding, I’m on the phone with producer saying, you know, I don’t know, but this what do you think about this has the sound where you think like so, you know, it’s not just you get up and you say stuff. And then what you know, you go and you do the show. And then you come back to your office after you do the show. And you’d have to track the show. Everything with the show. And then after that you usually have shoots and things. And so my day, you know, when I’m going I was saying to you, I’m going tomorrow to interview George Clooney and Julia Roberts. And so people like that’s amazing. But the prep time for that oh is simple. You have to go watch that movie, then you go. So that’s the two hours of prep time and then you go and you’re researching everything that’s going on with them. You’re formulating questions, you’re helping in that realm. And so your prep time for an eight minute interview is usually about five or six hours.

Nicole:
Yeah, oh, can we just pause and hold on that? That is it’s a whole church moment. Because, you know, I have one of these issues where it’s like, I’ll say it all day. And sometimes it needs to hear from it. They don’t need to hear from me, you I want to hear from Mama, you didn’t hear from it, because that’s who you want to listen to. It’s not just me, okay? It’s the fact that anything that takes 10 minutes can take you 10 hours of prep for me to do a 45 minute keynote and get paid five figures. I spend hundreds of hours of practice in the studio in order to get that good. And I just so much is missing now. And frankly, I have people who are doing this work. They’re in the season that you’re in right now where maybe they haven’t landed the gig that they’re going to be at for a while where they’re eventually going to become the co-host, but they’re saying to themselves, I feel like I’m working really hard. And everyone around me is getting there quicker. Like, am I doing the wrong?

Nishelle:
I think we all feel that way. I think I think we definitely all feel that way in one way, shape, or form. I know I felt that way. And I you know, I talked to people a lot, you know, even people here in the building with me that say, you know, I wish it was as simple as letting your work speak for yourself. In this day and age. It’s tough for that not to happen. In my case, you know, that has happened for me, but it hasn’t happened overnight. And one thing I do want to say too, I mean, I have people ask me all the time about you know, how did you get where you are? And I want to do that and what not. Well, first and foremost, I did not get into this business to do entertainment. Right? I did not want to write was not wasn’t a goal of mine. My dream was never to be it Entertainment Tonight. I got into this business because I love telling stories. And you know, I’m a journalist at my core, and I’m inquisitive. And I like asking questions. And I like getting answers. I mean, when they say that we are the gatekeepers to society and truth seekers that is very, very true. And if that is not innately you, then you’re gonna get burnt out of this business quickly. Because it’s not about the glamour, it’s not about the red carpet. It’s not about all of that. It’s getting answers to questions.

Nicole:
Yes. And that’s, that’s so valid. I mean, when I think we’ve all noticed that since 2016. Just you know, before you didn’t even I don’t want to say you didn’t know journalists unless you were like I grew up in DC. So like, I was a journalism poli sci geek. I knew who journalists were because, frankly, they had a profile in DC as well. But now the world knows who they are because they’ve you know, really elevated in that way, but it’s amazing because like you said, as gatekeepers you have to take your work seriously because it can be unforgiving. It’s like teachers, you know, here you are raising someone’s kids eight hours a day, and people are still like, oh, you know, we don’t like this or we don’t like that. I mean, you’ve got their whole baby for 8 hours. You know, so I really can appreciate, you know, and hoping that You know, you all who are listening that you’re saying to yourselves, you know, the work that I’m doing is worthy, the work that I’m doing is meaningful, because it will take you where you need to go. But you’ve got to stick with it.

Nishelle:
Yeah, because you know, they’re very long hours and short days, and you sacrifice a lot in this business, a lot more than people would think. You know, and I came into this business I, I grew up in a household with a mama who loved baseball. Baseball was the first love, right. So I grew up, you know, being a huge Cardinals fan and seeing lots of games at Busch Stadium. And so there’s this term in baseball, that’s called the five tool player, right. And that’s the player that can do anything. That’s the player that can run, hit, bat, you know, do whatever went, you know, everything. And the player who can play every position, multiple positions on the field. There’s a cardinal growing up, his name was Jose Oquendo. And most people didn’t pay much attention to him. But he was my favorite player, because I saw him play every single position on the field, even pitch one game. So he was always my favorite player. And I always thought, I’m going to pattern my career after the five tool player in baseball. So I’m going to be the person that, you know, is standing at the end of the day that has let learns everything that knows everything. So I’m the last one fired, because I also grew up seeing a mother that strong listen, you know, in a single parent household, and I said, I’m going to be the one at the end of the day, there’s still standing that when they are turning the lights off, they say, Nishelle, do you know how to turn the lights on? Right? Yes, that’s right. No. So I always I came into this scene, I was always going to work from a place of Yes. And I was just going to figure it out. So I was never going to like just shut the door to something that I didn’t know or understand or hadn’t planned for. I was going to be open. And that’s how I got to Entertainment Tonight. Because I came into this business as a hard news journalist. In my head I thought I was going to be a foreign correspondent. I wanted to be Christiane Amanpour. She was like the gold standard. And she still is still is yeah, she’s exceptional. She’s the mecca for me. But that’s what I thought.

And then I was a news anchor for 12 years. And then, you know, I got the opportunity. I was doing local morning news here in Los Angeles. And I got a phone call from the president of Fox Sports at the time, who said, Hey, come over and meet with me. I’m like, for what? Just come meet from but yes, right. Right. And so I went and he was like, you know, we I like, what do you think about starting to kind of do some, some sidelines some games for us some sideline, and I’m like, for what? For who? For what? And he was like for us for Fox NFL Sunday. And I’m like, but I don’t cover sports. And he said, Yeah, but you know how to tell stories. That’s what I want. So I thought, huh, and I thought, okay, I love football. Try it. So let me do this. Yep. But I will say two. And once again, a learning lesson. Being a football fan is not the same thing as covering the sport. It’s work. So I had, I had to work. I didn’t, I was like, Okay, I need to know the Tampa 2 defense. I need to know extra dough. Right? That’s right. I don’t know anything about this. I just like watching the game, right? So I had to do a whole other like, basically a crash course in football, because I didn’t know it.

Nicole:

Well, you didn’t know that technical way. You know, anytime you want to be good at something, we have to be willing to do the clinical technical work. And what I love calling out here that I’m hoping everyone’s hearing is, in the show, one of the things that’s amazing about you Nischelle is that you don’t see a problem and confront it and see it as a barrier. You see the problem, you’re like, Where can I solution my way out of here? That’s right.

Nischelle:
Exactly. And that’s, that’s really the only way to be if you’re going to be successful in any way, shape, or form. Yeah, just financially, or, you know, like, commercially or whatever. Like, if you’re going to be successful just a functional adult. Yes, absolutely. You have to work from that space. And so, you know, I did that. And then I did that for five years. And then I started doing college basketball and Major League Baseball and, and that was like a really interesting, life changing situation for me, because I left news. I left local news at Fox for a different reason. I was working in an environment where my spirit wasn’t settled and working with people that didn’t see me.

Nicole:
That is a conversation. That’s a whole nother conversation.

Nischelle:
But the moral to that story is you better believe you better bet on yourself all the time. And it’s not an easy thing to do to really bet on yourself.

Nicole:
So I do want to just dive on that a little bit because you know, one of the themes of my of this season, season three I’m going Nicole Walters podcast is starting over. So I kicked off the season sharing with everyone that I was going through divorce. So you know, I’m in my mid 30s I have three kids, you know, and never in a million years but I think after 12 years of marriage, I’d be starting over and I You know, but when you talk about starting over, you know, with a divorce, it’s one of the ultimate ways of betting on yourself, because you’re saying, I’m gonna take everything I’ve done before. And I’m going to bet that it’s going to be better, even though I may be comfortable here or this may be familiar or what have you. So, I mean, talking about where you were where you said, just your spirit wasn’t settled, because a lot of people look for an answer, especially when they hear about divorce. What was the reason? Why did it happen? Maybe it wasn’t, maybe my spirit wasn’t settled. Maybe that’s a thing. But when you felt that, what did it take? Where were you just in that moment, where you said, it’s not settled, I don’t know where I’m going. But I know it ain’t here.

Nischelle:
Right. And I had, my spirit wasn’t settled. But it was for concrete reasons as well. I knew all the all the pieces that I write, I knew what I need to do in it. And I’m real comfortable talking about the situation. I’ve talked about it before, and I’m very resolute on who I am. And why did you know I tell them, I actually just had a conversation with my boss at the time. Not the big boss, who I read, who is the reason why I left but the person under him and we were just talking about this. I had seen him in almost 20 Wow, years. And since I left there, actually, it’s about 12, 14, 15 years. I hadn’t seen him. But I had the opportunity when I came to LA, very young, Star Jones was leaving The View. I remember just so happened that I believe. I’m not even completely sure how it happened. But the story that I was told was that Rosie O’Donnell was in LA and she was watching local television and saw me doing local television here in Los Angeles, and said to Bill Getty at the time, we need to reach out to that girl.

Nicole:
That makes sense. I could I can see it. Like already, it all makes sense to me.

Nischelle:
So they did and I didn’t have like a tape and it was just really random. And I’m like, oh, and so Bill Getty said he was the name Bill Getty he was the executive producer of The View at the time. And he said put yourself on tape we want to see on tape. So I literally asked my photographer Tony Butina, Oh, my gosh, morning after we finished doing a story I said, can you just take me somewhere and like put me put me on tape. I need to do this. And he’s like, I was like, you can’t tell anybody. Can we just so we went to some park somewhere. And he just set up the camera. And I just talked. Sure. So we sent it to them. And they came back to me. They said we really like you. We’re narrowing this down to like five or six people that we want to try out. You know, I want to go through a bit of an interview process with us and then with Barbara, and then she’ll decide, Barbara Walters. Yes, yes, she’ll decide if she wants you to come sit down at the table, mix it up with the ladies, right. At that day in time, there was no bigger job for some in television.

Nicole:
Well, I mean, listen, I’m sitting here, like you. Because I mean, honestly, especially with the view cast at that time not knocking the current cast, but it’s evolved, you know, that cast, every single one of them had proper and thorough accolades. Like there were no influencers, there was no rotating seat, there was no sometime newbies. It was truly I mean, we’re talking Barbara Walters, no relation, you know. I mean, it’s a big deal.

Nischelle:
Especially for a woman and a woman of color. And I was I wasn’t, you know, I think I was 2829 years old. 30 years. And it was, you know, and, you know, the things she liked about me, I was single, I have a very definitive point of view about things that people may not, you know, know. And so, you know, Barbara liked me and sheets, they said, We want you to come mix it up with the ladies at the table. So I’m freaking out, like, of course, like it’s a test. Let’s see what happens, right? And I’m a reporter on a local morning show in Los Angeles. So we go my agent, and I go to my bosses and say, Hey, there’s this opportunity, just want me to come sit at the table and that boss at the time said, No.

Nicole:

I don’t believe you and I said, stop it. Stop it. No, this is baffling to me also because, one you know, I’m a big I’m a god girl, what is for you is for you can’t nobody block your blessings. So whatever it is, is gonna come your way. However, it’s also baffling because one of the thing I’ve learned, especially living in LA is it’s always good for you when people soar. A lot of people try to have an attitude that like, oh, well, I don’t want someone to get this opportunity. But no, no, no, no, no, please, if you want to become Gayle King, and be Oprah’s best friend, and I helped you, this is to my advantage.

Nischelle:
And yeah, and I worked on a show that like was all about like, you know, news and entertainment and celebrity and all those things. And I was like, I wasn’t even the host of the show. I was a reporter she’s like, so I can understand and if I was the face of the show that network, and you had a problem with that, but I’m a reporter.

Nicole:
And also this is LA. Everybody’s moving.

Nischelle:
Right. And I said to I get the business side of it, but but we’re also not in the dream crushing business. So for me that moment, I was like, Oh, I see who you are, right? This feels personal. And when we went back, because the view came back again. They were like, Barbara wants you at that table. We’re coming back again. And so we went back to them again, and they said no, again.

Nicole:
Wow. And who says no to Barbara Walters. I also feel like if Barbara says, you just do it, like, Do you know what I mean? Like, it’s just kind of, I wouldn’t even want to make Barbara upset. Do you know what I mean?

Nischelle:
Well, the view came back a third time. Oh, see? And they said, they said no. And they said we feel like they’re tampering and so…

Nicole:
Not litigation? Yes. And they don’t owe me why am I hype right now? I’m like, first and foremost, you don’t own me a second of all, what you’re not going to do is try to tell me where I’m gonna go. Like, you’re like, like, this has happened like 10 years ago. You can calm down?

Nischelle: Like 2006.

Nicole:
No, I am actively mad right now.

Nischelle:

Oh, no, I could, really believe you me. So my agent and I decided to go and sit in front of the general managers like really try to reason with, right. And so when we went into that meeting, the first thing he said to me was that this is what like I just went I had to pause because I still get mad thinking about this, because it was such, but it was also such clarity. Sure. So I really now in hindsight, I thank God for that moment, because that was my seeing myself, knowing my self worth moment and figuring out who I am. Wow. And so the first thing he said to me was, you should be grateful for what we give you.

Nicole:
Oh, please. Okay. Okay. Listen, give me? Earned.

Nischelle:
So I said, make no mistake about it. I am rooted in gratitude. But you better believe that I earned everything I have. I said that very thing to him. That’s right. And we walked out of there. Yes, that moment. I told my agent, I will not resign here. When my contract is up. I’m gone. I’m out. Absolutely. And I meant it. I left.

Nicole:
Absolutely. I’m saying I’m like, round of applause round of applause.

Nischelle:
Like, yes, because it was a year later when my contract was up. And I left.

Nicole:
Oh, knowing to show up every day knowing that they think they own you on that energy level. Listen, you better

Nischelle:
I didn’t have a plan. I didn’t have a new job. I knew I needed to walk away. And then the economy crashed in 2008.

Nicole:
Sure did. Recession number one.

Nischelle:
I didn’t find like a steady job for almost three years.

Nicole:
You listen, let’s just be clear. You are not the type to ever be broke. You might not have had a steady job. But I know you had food. No, no, you were working.

Nischelle:

Yeah, it was a tough it. Listen, this is where I say when you bet on yourself. You really have to believe in betting yourself. Right? I went from a job in local news making a couple $100,000 a year, which was very good at that. Yeah, for sure. To go into a seasonal job where I made about $25,000. And so that was like, you know, I was betting on my talent. And then we went into a recession. People weren’t hiring. Yeah, no matter how talented you were, people were not hiring. And I remember and this is a bit of my testimony. I remember going to my agent it was you know, it was like about two years and some change in and I had like gone through savings and whatnot. And I said, Listen, I am not ashamed to work in any capacity. I’m going to target next week to apply. I’ve got bills, and I’m going to pay my bills. And she said, I hear you. And she said, but I’m not giving up on you. I said, Listen, I’m just telling you, yes, I’m going to do this. And the next month, I got a call from CNN, to come by their entertainment correspondent and that’s where I got into entertainment because I had no, I didn’t have any like sights on being anything. That opportunity at the view came about. I had another opportunity after that where Oprah when she had launched the Own network right away. She was going to do a talk show and I actually got picked for that talk show to be Wow, they were gonna pay me more money than I’d ever seen in my life. Sure. And then two weeks before we started to film they decided not to do it because that’s how it goes. Well, because at that time Gail was still on her network and Gail had like her talk show slash radio show and then they had just brought Rosie back and oh, you Yeah, yeah. And so Oprah stepped in at the last minute and said, I can’t have three talk shows.

Nicole:
But that’s LA stuff. That’s what I mean. It’s just like you think you have it in hand, and then it shifts and it just says it’s not real until it’s on air. And even then, well, it’s not really renewed.

Nischelle:
You know, and I said to her, Okay, you were my boss for 2.6 seconds, but we’re gonna cross our paths someday and we have a lot of ways. But yeah, so I, you know, I went to CNN because they said, Hey, we want to come here and cover entertainment. And I, you know, I always thought, you know, for me, CNN is the gold standard of news. And because I’m a journalist, I said, Okay, well, the opportunity is to go work at CNN. So that’s what I’m gonna do. I need a job. And I need a job.

Nicole:
Listen, also that though, like, you know, what’s funny is I think that are what’s insightful about all this conversation is the fact that you’re referencing the just bullet points that are transferable humility, knowing your worth gratitude, and, frankly, you know, having faith, you know, I mean, you’re saying, Look, I wasn’t, this isn’t a hustle and a hustle, you know, but, but a strategic without works is dead. That’s right. That’s right. But it was a strategic hustle, too, because you weren’t going to hustle backwards at a place that did not respect you, you know, they didn’t let you go. You could have stayed, you could have said, this is a burden hand, what could have been there to this day. Absolutely. And said, you’re like, No, you know, this is not the place to apply my effort behind something that won’t be fruitful for me. So it’s just so inspiring, partly for

me, just because I’m in that season very much where I’m like, I thought I’d done all the things where I had done all the things, you know, and you know, towards a certain goal, but now I’m like, Well, what, what, you know, what’s next, you know, and what does that look like and saying strategic nos, and very strategic yeses, you know, and knowing that things are changing in the economy, and being aware that, at least for me, when I left my marriage, and when I started transitioning out of aspects of my business saying to myself, are you ready to fully surrender? You know, are you ready to say, if it doesn’t look the way it was gonna look? Are you willing to do the work to accept whatever is to come next? You know.

Nischelle:
Oh and I have a story about surrender.

Nicole:
Well let’s close on that. Because I think that that’s really valid, because, you know, it’s something between starting over people number one question I get about divorce is, Nicole, how did you find the courage to be on your own? How did you find the courage to say I won’t go back when your life was so you know, apparently cushy and comfortable in those things? And I always tell them, Look, I had to know that I’m good enough if I stay, and I’m good enough if I go, and that my worth is not changing, dependent on where I stand. So what does that mean about what I want my future to look like? So I had to surrender validation, what people would say about me, how it play out, the results, the money, the material goods, I’d be willing to say, I’ll have none of that. But I still have myself and I have my God and my babies. So that’s gonna be enough, it’s gonna have to be enough. And that’s where I remind myself every day saying it out loud, so I can hear it too. So that being said, please tell me your story of how surrender paid out because Lord knows, I need that fuel on my spirit.

Nischelle:
Well, yeah, no, it’s a great story. And it’s very, very true. So I had been here at Entertainment Tonight for several years. And I was the weekend host and correspondent and the main host of our show, Nancy O’Dell, yes, was leaving. And so she was leaving. And of course, then you think, who’s going to be the next host or whatever, and I thought, and, you know, believed to my core that I deserved that job, and that it should be me. And, you know, I made it known to the bosses, and it was, you know, we’re going to try people out, you know, how they say, or whatever. And so, you know, they went through bringing people in, you know, and whatnot. And of course, I, again, believing in myself and knowing who I am, you know, I put myself up against anybody. And I still say, you know, I’m, I’m the best person here for this job. But it became apparent after a long period of time that that wasn’t going to happen in a couple of years. And it was like, maybe we’re just gonna have Kevin do the show himself and whatnot. And to say, I was disappointed, an understatement. I was, I was very disappointed by it. And so, you know, I went through a period of mourning it, because I still thought, I know that I am made for this. Like, I know that and there had never been another black woman to host the show. Yeah. You know, and it’s 40 plus years of existence, but we’re in season 42 now, but at the time, it was, you

know, 40 years of the show. And I said, Listen, I know that this is for me, I know it is, but if they don’t see it, okay.

And I really had to mourn it. I had to sit with it. And I remember watching an interview that Oprah had done and she was talking about when she auditioned for the color purple, and she knew it was for her. But she didn’t get it. And so she said she remembered like, she was walking around a track and she just started crying. And she was listening to CeCe Winans, I surrender. And she really, like had that moment where she just let it go for real. She let it go. And she said, like, the next day, Steven Spielberg called, oh, my gosh, the offer for it. And so I said to myself, Nischelle, you really got to you’ve got to find a way to let this go. And so I did, I cried about it. I hurt over it. I went through all of that. And, and then I came to a point where I said, you are like, look at you. Yes, you came from a pig farm in rural Missouri and look at you. Baby, you’re overcoming. Yes, you’re doing and if they don’t see it, that is okay.

Nicole:
It doesn’t change it.

Nischelle:
And it doesn’t make them assholes for not seeing it. Right, right just makes them not them. No, yeah, just right. It just makes it them not seeing. So you got to figure out what you’re going to do here and you got to figure out what happiness looks like if it ain’t this. Yes. So, you know, I really did and I said, Okay, I’m gonna let this go. If I can’t build my castle over here, I’m gonna build it over here. Yeah, figure out some other stuff. Right? So I ended up like really just being good with it. I signed a new deal here at Entertainment Tonight. Decided I was just gonna go forward. I ended up getting another show that I was a producer on that I am a producer on here at CBS. It’s a renovation show secret celebrity renovation. So being able to to have this show greenlit and be the host of the show and produce the show. I said, alright, well, this is what I’m gonna do. And I tell you, it just freed me in a way where I just, I think even started being more of myself. Yeah. And several months later, I was standing on the street in Philadelphia with Eve shooting my renovation show, eating a Philly cheesesteak and I got a call from my agent and they said, we just got off the phone with the CBS executives. And they want to make you the host of Entertainment Tonight. When I tell you like I literally I had let that go. I was not thinking about it. I wasn’t dwelling on it. I had moved on.

Nicole:
What’s yours is yours.

Nischelle:
I was happy and good. Then they came correct with it. Yes. They didn’t skimp on it.

Nicole:
Delayed but not denied. How can I tell you? You took me to church, you took me to church right there. I literally am sitting here like trying to fight back tears because it’s so, when I tell you, I mean, especially, I think that we have some similarities and people you guys know, know me, you’ve heard me like, where it’s like, I feel like sometimes I’m like, I can work myself. I will work myself into this, I will will myself into what I deserve. But when you get to a certain age, you know, like I’m approaching 40 You know, my biblical age is 25 You know, that’s the age God wants for me and then I receive however approaching 40. And I will say that like I’m learning that sometimes the way forward is actually not resistance. It’s not pushing you know, it’s actually saying okay, surrender.

Nischelle:
Yeah, you will yourself but actually sometimes the way forward is wanting this launching yourself. Right because it is true. You know, what’s for you is for you. And my mother’s always says to me, God only has three answers. Yes, not yet, and I’ve got something better for you. And that has proven true in my life over and over and over again.

Nicole:
I don’t think there’s anything left. I mean, y’all can I just say follow her everywhere. All over social look, I’m gonna be following her in real life you’re gonna see me standing behind you at Starbucks like you got anything else for me Nischelle. Can I please just touch the hem of your Emmys?

Nischelle:
Yes to be a black woman in this business and for all of this starting to happen like it all started to happen around 46 is saying something in itself right now. It really right. I’m not supposed to be here. And so the fact that I am it says something about yums Yeah, it says something about Will it says something about work. It says a lot about faith. You know, and listen, I’ve been I’m not trying to step on a soapbox and prophesize to anybody.

Nicole:
We received that here. Get on your box!

Nischelle:
I come from praying people Yeah. No, I’ve been prayed through something, listen. And so I, you know, yeah, I don’t believe in coincidences, I believe that our steps are already ordered. And I believe that they happen how they’re supposed to happen. Absolutely. So I know 25 years in this business, I am supposed to be right here.

Nicole:
Oh, I am excited, and so glad that our paths have crossed. If for nothing else about this conversation to share and to let everyone hear you know, that the things you’re going through today will serve them tomorrow, you know, and it’s all in how you want to show up and internalize it. And I mean, just hearing that, you know, God does answer you know, and the answers are always to our benefit. Always. This is amazing. The new season starts soon of Entertainment Tonight? We get to see you more.

Nischelle:
Well. We’re in it. We’re in it. We’re in it. Yeah, we started. The new season started on September the fourteenth. So just couple of weeks. Yes, we’re about a month in right now to new season. And we’ve been having so much fun. I mean, Kevin is, you know, the best partner because he’s my friend outside of this. Yeah. So, you know, we’re family outside of this. So being together, people always like, are you guys really like that? He just told me that today. He just came back from a trip doing something. He’s like, people think we travel together. We stay together, of course.

Nicole:
Because of that, because that’s how it works. I find it I love it. But I’m excited because I get to watch it now. And everyone who’s gonna watch it, y’all. This is our cousin. We need to watch her. We need to be like, listen, our cousin Nischelle is on the TV. This is the energy we need to have right now. Because it’s a big deal.

Nischelle:
I’m almost 50. So I think I’m officially an auntie. My little cousin who’s awesome. Oh, my God, baby, my little cousin. Julian, who is nine now, said to me the other day, because he calls me TT. And even though he’s my cousin. But he said to me, I said juice, I can’t juice juice. Why you call me TT? And he said, Well, you know, I call you that because you’re more likely not because cousins aren’t old.

Nicole:
No, no, no, I can’t be it doesn’t have to be. Well listen, I mean, you are the good Sis, you are you we are peers in age. Okay? This is this demo right here. So no, we are going to be watching and celebrating you. And I think every time I turn you on, it’s gonna be so exciting to not just see your great reporting and the information and all the fun entertainment stuff, but also to see that this is a materialization of everything God has ever wanted for you. And I also know that whatever we’re watching is just the beginning. So we are very excited about that.

Nischelle:
It is, knowing now like you know, leaving sports and thinking I was leaving that but now coming back to the space doing a podcast with Shaquille O’Neal and Adams every week, I still get to dip my toe in that and they’re so crazy. Like I have a laugh fest. Those goofballs and you know then doing this Entertainment Tonight, having my other show on CBS secret celebrity renovations, still working at CNN like all of it is good. It’s that five tool player now converging into one.

Nicole:
Yes and you deserve you deserve you deserve. Thank you so much for taking this time out to inspire. Thanks for having me. Oh my gosh, to celebrate, to lift us up to share everything that I know I needed to hear today in this moment. You have no idea. It was right on time. We are cheering you on and just excited to see what comes next. Thank you so much for being here.

Nischelle:

Thank you so much Nicole.

Nicole:
Hey, friend. So I am always saying that I’m super excited to chat with you from week to week, but I’m not gonna lie, this week’s chat is literally in the place of an emotional hangover. Have you ever heard of those? It’s where you have like big emotional moments, and you share a ton about yourself or you’re really vulnerable, you’re really transparent. And just like, in the aftermath, you’re like, sheesh, like, I put it all out there. And even if I’m okay, and I survived it, I’m feeling the feels. And that’s definitely where I am because if you follow me over on Instagram, at Nicole Walters, you know, that I have been sharing and detailing this transitional phase of life for the past, gosh, I want to say like six months or so, and I’ve been talking about it, but not in specificity. You know, not about divorce, you know, for two years now. But really, at the early stages, if you kind of go all the way back on Instagram, I was really mostly talking about, you know, learning more about myself and discovering more about my worth, and finding ways to deepen my relationship with me and my girls, and, you know, just battling my health concerns, like all that stuff.

And now, I just have finally reached a place where I’m able to speak about things. Because I understand them better, you know, and hopefully, I’m able to share them in a way that’s applicable to everyone’s life. And a part of that also is that I’ve started seeing someone, ah! <laughs> I’ve been talking about what it was like to date. And I mentioned in previous chats that we’ve had that, you know, I’ve found someone to kind of stand still with for a while. And, and it’s really exciting because, oh, gosh, I’m over here I literally am teetering between, you can hear me smiling, but I’m also a little teary because I’m really happy, you know, which is one side of it. But it’s also soo different. I’m not gonna lie to y’all. If the kids are around, and this is gonna be this is everything I always say is always kid friendly. You know, there’s not gonna be anything icky that you know, if they hear it. They’re like, what’s going on? But, you know, this is kind of a girls chat. You know this one, but y’all I grabbed the ginger ale. I’m like, like, I’m so stinking in love with this guy. And it feels so weird to say out loud, because I am a whole grown adult. At my big age, what am I doing out here fallen in love? I’m grown. I am grown. I’m so so you fall in love with like, my favorite biscuit spot? You know what I mean? Like, what am I even doing, but it’s true. And I’m at a place where I feel comfortable admitting it. I have been in this partnership now for close to a year. So you know, I definitely can tell my girlfriends about it, you know, and Guy fellows who are listening, you know.

But I just want you to know some of the things that I’m, I’ve learned and being in this partnership, and we’ve talked about how to date, we’ve talked about what it’s like getting out there. We’ve talked about healing from the hurt. And you’ve heard from me and my friends and my experts about it. But I do want to let you know kind of what the other side can look like. And to be candid and transparent, I also recognized before I dive into any of this, that I could be just being giddy and I could be single next year. That could happen. I recognize that I could be absolutely wrong about all of this or approaching it the wrong way. I don’t try to ever feel like I am right or flawless or that I know all the things about everything. What I’m trying to do is help you keep trying. I just want you guys to see that I’m not quitting, that I’m getting out there and that I’m doing it scared and confused and nervous. And then I’m just hoping for the best every single day. And then I’m also finding joy in the process and it’s my hope that in sharing all of this that you’re able to see that you can do these things get out there and survive and even if you take bumps and bruises you can keep going. And in relation to dating and meeting someone new that I’m standing still with for awhile.

I really want you to know that you’re wanted. Like you are wanted as you are, friend. The imperfect you, the you that’s learning, the you that’s growing. You are wanted with your kids right now and with your weight the way it is is with your skin and with your style and with your income or lack thereof girl, with your debt, with your struggles, with your goals that you have and with your dreams and with your hopes if you are in a place right now, where you do not feel wanted, I need you to know that there is a place that exists out there for you where you are deeply wanted, as you are.

And friend as you’ve been with me, over the past few years, I’ve been riding this roller coaster of heartbreak, and loss, and recovery and redemption, I want you to know that you have shown me Jesus in my inbox. You guys have been his hands and feet. You have been sending me messages all during this time, saying, I don’t know why but God put it on my heart to pray for you and your girls. I want to let you know every single one of those messages was right on time. Because never did I think I was going to start over. I will say it here and say 10,000 times over from the mountaintops. I loved being a wife. I loved it. I mean I truly am a family person. I am a giver. I enjoy like the household, the act of being a wife, being supportive, having a partnership. I loved it. I love being a mom I love making and keeping house I like proverbs 31 that is me all day, like I’m here for I will mend. I will do all the things. I also was not perfect as a wife. I was stubborn, I was angry at times, I could be difficult. I was not communicative. When I was truly upset, I worked a lot. And I barely knew my own boundaries to affirm them when they needed to be affirmed y’all. I was not perfect. I know that. But I also know I tried my best. I really did. I did therapy, I grew. I mean, I got married at 22. Y’all think about think about who you were at 22. You know, over those 12 plus years, 14 years I was in the relationship I grew a lot. And there is still part of me, even in all the joy that I have today. Even in all the smiles and giddiness, you can hear my voice that at times wants to trade it all in for the vision of family I once had. The vision of it. People ask me all the time do you miss where you are before? Do you miss your previous marriage? I miss what I thought it was, the fantasy, not the reality. Because illusions never beat the real thing.

And I also want you to understand that so many people say but you seem so happy. You guys seem so great. Listen, you can have a happy family and an unhappy marriage. It is possible for both of those things to reside in the same place. The same way that grief and grace can reside in the same place the same way that faith and fear can reside in the same place. A marriage is not a continuous line, there are highs and there are lows. It’s when you start feeling like you reside in the valley and can’t even see the mountaintop that you know deep changes need to exist. And I want to let you know that again, because illusions never beat the real thing, I am so excited that I have that now.

I want you to know that it is possible to find something in a season that is real. And this guy that I’m with oh, he’s a hard worker. He is a hard worker. He’s kind. He’s generous and funny. He’s gentle and romantic. He holds me accountable, tenderly, telling me difficult truths, and he encourages me to grow. And those are all the things that I think bullet pointed we’re all like, yeah, yeah, yeah, Hallmark, right. But I also want you to know that there are things that the almost 40 year old self of me recognizes that I need in a partnership that I did not know when I was 22. He’s emotionally and mentally healthy. He is humble. And he comes from an incredible family.

When I tell you, I sat down on one of our first few dates and I was like so how was your childhood? You know, because childhood trauma is a factor and I do not receive it. Okay? What are your thoughts around therapy? You know what, Amy? These are real things. His family is so gracious and so kind. They are loving and compassionate people. And when I see the space that they give both of their kids to grow and independently be who they are with support. Their love is the definition of unconditional. I literally, when I see his parents, I want to give them thanks all the time for creating such an incredible man. Like, I may have the last guy on the market, who had a terrific childhood, not perfect, nobody’s perfect, but a childhood where he never questioned the love and consistency of his parents I am to be what his parents were to him all day. That’s how amazing his family is. It’s evident because he takes care with my heart. And he also creates space for me to rest. Y’all, he gives me flowers, two bouquets every week. One for the past, all the times I should have gotten them, and one from him now because I deserve them in the present. He loves me. And he also loves all three of our girls, because he knows that all three of our girls are my daughters, unwaveringly. And the girls call him the Breakfast King, right? He makes pretty decent breakfast. And if he’s listening to this, like I’m telling you, it’s a good breakfast, it’s solid, it’s definitely solid. But he’s worked hard because he wants to be the breakfast king.

And more importantly, our girls call them our stress reliever. And it’s because he always aimed to be the light in the room. He’s invested in creating a life with space for all of us, as we are. And he makes us smile. He’s chosen us as we are, presently in the darkest valleys. And he’s really been a light to create some of the brightest of days. And when I tell you when I started experiencing what I’ve come to know is love and falling in love. I finally understood for truly the first time in my life that love songs aren’t just a concept or a creative expression. That love songs and movies are a real thing. It’s based on a true experience that when you hear it, you can recognize it. And being with someone who helps me understand love songs, and a deeper interaction experience with the world creatively has transformed me. His love has literally been redemptive to my soul.

And this love has deepened my desire as a Christian to serve God well, because I finally understand what it means when God says I’m here for you and I love you entirely as you are. Because I have a manifestation of that in front of me every day. It helps me lean into the best version of myself, to help this world that we’re all in because that’s what I’m here to do. So every single day that I am working to heal from where and who I was. Because when you’re in a certain situation, you are a person that you may not recognize. And you may not realize the way that you’re showing up in certain worlds, if you have a tough job every day at work, you become someone who learns how to survive it. If you’re living in a warzone you do what you need to do to survive that situation. And the same thing applies in marriage, you may not realize that there are versions and interactions and, and ways that you’ve become and how you interact with the world that are not reflections of who you are in its entirety. Of course, you will always shine through, but the best version of you, that’s not going to happen until you’re in a space to heal from where you are and who you were. And what’s great is I get to do that and safe arms. And I’m so thankful. This love has a simplicity for me. That is freeing, because I don’t question it because it’s abundant and I don’t have to work for it. There’s an ease there. And it’s because it’s emotionally mature. We are both complete adults not seeking a partner to help make us something that we feel we lack. Neither of us lacks anything.

Nothing is missing. Our relationship is blessed with boundaries. It’s deeply respectful. This love is more than I knew to pray for. And frankly, it’s more than I even knew that I deserved. And it makes me grateful that God gives me what he wants for me and not what I think I deserve because this is so much better. Friends, this new guy, he’s been approved by the therapist. He’s been approved by the pastor. He’s met my family, and he’s met my babies. He’s met my girl squad. And a couple of weeks ago, he met my internet besties so I’m excited that all of you get to meet, for the second time because he was a podcast guest, my man, the Mr. Fella, Alex. Thank you for seeing me and now us. And I want you to know, friend, what God has done for me, he can certainly do for you.