Nicole:

Y’all, friends, okay, so I am squeezing in this quick chat because I could not let another week go by without letting you know, major news, something that we all did together that I am crazy excited about.

So if you’ve been keeping up on social media, at Nicole Walters, on Instagram, on Facebook, all over, you know that I have been in the process of sharing everything about my new memoir that just hit shelves two weeks ago. It’s crazy to believe it’s even been that long already, on October 10, of 2023. The book is called Nothing is Missing, a memoir of living boldly. And it finally is in everyone’s hands. And all this season I’ve been talking about starting over, fresh starts and just everything that’s been going on in my life, whether it is starting over from my divorce or reconfiguring how I look at my business, to my relationship, all the things.

And this book is my fresh start manual, I was taking you back. So you could see from the beginning, growing up all the way forward to why I am here today and what I’ve learned, and how you can pull those learnings into your own life. And what’s been amazing is over the past two weeks, I’ve had an opportunity to meet, in real life, so many of you. We’ve been to New York, DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles, and everywhere in between because that, you know, I was meeting y’all at the baggage claim, luggage carousel, like hugs real life everywhere. And it’s just been a dream, a dream. It’s part of why I’m sharing with you right now that this dream has been more than I could have wished for.

I asked all of you if you would help me by, whether it was grabbing a copy of this book for yourself, or grabbing one for you and a friend or as a gift, or inviting me to your book clubs or your churches. And the way that you showed up was just remarkable. And it was so remarkable, that I’m really proud to share that we are New York Times Best Sellers. With all the work, with all the… I’m actually trying not to cry. It’s so weird, because y’all this news is only like 10 days old. It’s like not even, it’s so… Oh, it’s like it’s 10 days old. And I’ve wanted to tell you first I mean, I’ve shared a little, you know, with my online squad. So some of you already saw this and you know, an email with the internet aunties, but it’s special to come to you and tell you now that we did! You know, we did it

The thing that I talked about before all of this started where I said, it was so important for me to be able to get out here and say that regular people can do big things, too because that’s what this book is about. That’s what our times here are about, that you can be regular, you know, you can be a mom with your babies who likes cheese and shopping at Target. And you don’t have to live a crazy sensational life, you don’t have to be so vulnerable to the point of being sensational, you know, you don’t have to put out all your junk and be gross, you don’t have to reveal every single detail about yourself in the most scandalous way. You literally can just speak your truth about your life, share your story. So respect the story of the people in your life, like, you know, our little internet tinies and my was-band and you know, my parents, and you know, all the people who inspired me, you can still share all of that, and be impactful. And make a difference. And change lives and honor yourself and honor God. And I’m just so thankful because you all met me in this moment. And because of that, we hit number nine on one of the hardest lists to hit, which is the advice/how to miscellaneous self help category, which is very popular, and it actually is only has like 10 spots out of you know, most of them have 15.

And when I tell you, truth moment, you know where we’re at, now we’re gonna get into the goods of it. I was being prepared by my team to not hit this list. Like, and I’ve been waiting to talk to you about this, I was being prepared, you know, everyone was trying to like cushion my expectations. They were all saying, you know, Nicole, it’s a very hard list to hit. And, you know, you’re doing really well with the numbers that are coming in but I just want you to also know that, you know, this doesn’t happen for a lot of new authors. And this doesn’t happen, you know, for memoirs, and this isn’t something that happens very often and, you know, it’s a very rare an unlikely thing and we just want you to know that we’re all rooting for you, you know, but we just want you to manage your expectations and I think and I’m just gonna Just a truth moment with with you all my friends here, part of that was because I was speaking it into existence. And so where y’all.

I mean, when I tell you every time I would do an interview or anything, I would say, look, this book is a future New York Times bestseller, not just because I say so but because God said so and because my internet Auntie besties have said so. We are collectively standing in agreement that this is what this is going to do. And I don’t need to have 4 million followers. I have the followers that count. I have the people that matter. These are my day ones. We’ve known each other for 10 years. I show up for them, they show up for me, like it is a thing we are in this together. And y’all when I tell you I kept trying to share this with everyone like I would tell them by team like, listen, I know how y’all are feeling. But I want to let you know that my people move differently. These are the people who helped me pick out potty seats for my babies. These are the people who when they saw I was going through my divorce transition, literally prayed over me sent me messages saying Nicole, we don’t know what all it is, but know that we are praying for you and covering you and knowing that change is going to come and we are excited to see you breakthrough. And these are the people that send me wedding invitations. And I send wedding gifts too. And that, you know, I have helped cheer their kids through nursing school and I have paid for summer camp. Like we have a relationship I get back to school pictures. Like this is not just a book for the general masses that I’ve never met before. Although I have to say it’s been really incredible to see people who have never known about our thing here, in our community, you know, like, it’s been so incredible to invite them into the fold. So if you’re a newbie, and you’re now in the fold, like welcome, welcome, welcome, because you are in on something great. Like, truly, we are a community that shows up for each other and has each other’s back through thick and thin. And through the changes and the ebbs and flows of life and our growth. We are literally here growing together.

And so when I said this, that, you know, they’re just kind of like Ah huh. Because typically, even the fancy people, you know, who have like, I mean, just to let you know, just a little side note, friends, we didn’t just hit the New York Times list like that’s the big fancy pants one that everyone talks about, we hit every list. I just wanna be really clear to let you know about that. Every single major list that’s out there, USA Today, Wall Street Journal, Publishers Weekly, Amazon Best Seller, book list, every single major list we charted on in the top 10, I believe, and definitely, if not the top 50. We made every single list. We were above people like Reba McIntyre. Do you know what I mean? Like we hit every list. And I say we because truly, it wasn’t me it was our community. Like we did this. And that’s how I’ve been saying it. I’m like y’all, do you understand? Do you understand what we can do? Do you see what we can do as a community? I just want you to sit in that with me and recognize what is possible when we mobilize the love, the support, the knowledge and the care of the people who’ve been with us since day one.

And I’m just so grateful. I’m so grateful for you. Because this is as meaningful, if not maybe a smidge less meaningful than you helping me pick out the potty seat. I just know that we are really in it together. And we are just one big family. And I’m so grateful. And I also want to tell you about a special moment that happened on the tour. So the very first tour stop that we did was in New York City. And the reason this was the first tour stop was we also had press that day. So on that day we did the Sherri Shepherd Show, which if you caught that episode, it was so fun. And if you missed it, it’s on Instagram now. But we did the Sherri Shepherd show and it was just a bundle of laughs and I shared my five tips to live boldly. Really great, definite must watch. We also did, CBS Morning with Gayle King, who as you all know, Gayle is Oprah’s on paper best friend, like historical record. But we also know if you’ve kept up with me on Instagram my relationship with Oprah. And you know, I fondly call her bread fan. If you are new around here, please head over there. You’ve got to catch up. This is a years long thing. But you know Oprah was not present in that interview for many reasons. If you watch it, I know some of you right now are cackling in the car. Because you know about the Oprah thing and the joke.

But needless to say we had an interview with Gayle and that was incredible. And it was so so fun. Both our offline conversation and our on screen conversation. But after all of that, I got to do the real fun which was, we headed over to Barnes and Noble Tribeca. And I got to sit with my dear incredible, great friend Seth Godin, who is, you know, multiple, like, he’s like 18 Times New York Times bestseller like I mean, he’s Jay Z’s favorite marketer, right? Like he is just a genius in this industry and, and he was just so generous. He entertained, you know, and educated and just absolutely helped me bring the best out and I couldn’t have felt safer chatting with him in front of all of you. And I was so grateful to have him in front of all of you too, because I wanted you to meet them, you know, if you didn’t already know him, but he got to meet all of you.

And when I say what a special night this was, first and foremost, I’m going to skip to the end to tell you a little bit how it went, we shut that place down. I have never been in a Barnes and Noble until after closing, we shut that place down. They were literally pulling the grates down behind us. And, and it was just beyond because one of the things that happened there that everyone was remarking on that they said is unique to us, right? This is just a Nicole Walters podcast, crew, internet, aunties, you know, internet besties it is just us. Typically, whenever fancy pants people, which clearly we’re not fancy pants, fancy pants, people do these events. Usually you won’t see the people in attendance talking to each other. It’ll usually be that they come to these events, you know, to kind of like shine a light on the person on stage, then they grab their books and they go and that’s not a community, right? They might be fans, you know, they might be people who are like, you know, a big readers if you will, but oh no, they were not ready on every single one of our stops, starting with New York City was literally like a meet and greet reunion hanging out, best friends eating cheese.

I literally got gifts of cheese on this tour. I spent every single evening eating cheese because not only do you understand me, but you love me. Okay, it was so good. So at New York City, you know, at every stop, I got to see you. I got to meet some of my internet nieces and nephews, which was incredible. You know, catch up with you, see how you’re doing, give you hugs in person, we had T shirts, and we had signs and we had, I mean, it literally was just like, the phrase that I use often. And that I’ve said on this tour, so many times about how wonderful it was, was, there’s one word that struck me when I walked into that room, every single room. And it was finally, finally, we get to be together.

Finally, we get to just take everything off and get real, the conversations we had in that room. Some of them echoed what was in the book, but a lot of them were just us talking about what we’ve been through and seeing the journey and giving thanks and being grateful. And so many of you are sharing so openly and vulnerably you know, what you’d experience, what brought us together. You know, and there were times where I would say in the room, you know, how many of us have talked before whether it was in real life or over the DMs or you know, on an impromptu phone call or whatever. When I tell you, every single time every hand would go up in that room, you know, it just reminded me that at the very beginning of this business building journey, when I quit my nine to five job almost 10 years ago, and decided I was going to say yes to my purpose. One of the things that was said to me by many mentors was, this isn’t sustainable, that you should not try to connect with people, you know, so personally. That being able to chat with people in the DMs and it’s true, y’all I’m gonna be very clear. I overcommit myself, I’m the type of person who is like, and some of y’all are nodding your heads because you’re like this too, which is why we get each other. But I will try to do all the things for all the people and be everywhere. And I am absolutely terrible about it, and I have to work on it. But when I tell you, I try to answer every comment and every DM and I get over 200 a day and I mean, I am in the bathroom, in the kitchen, in between meetings, in the elevator, you know waiting in line trying to chat and connect and talk to you and answer your questions and checking on babies and checking on test results and checking on college and checking on school and because I want to know how you’re doing and you guys do the same for me. I just want to say that too is like you guys are checking in on me too.

And it’s just been so nice, because when I walked into that room and I said finally, you know, it wasn’t just words on a screen, you know, or in an email or in a letter or note card. It was a face and the voice and warmth of a hug and littles that I’ve literally known from being carried, from being a thought, you know, to ages five and six and in school, and though I’m really trying not to lose it, it’s because the babies get me every time, you know. But when I tell you it was, I was like, I could exhale finally, because I was like, oh, we’re together.

And then seeing all of you chat with each other, you know about your check ins and your relationships and and find out that you guys have been having conversations externally, you know, that you are like, oh, yeah, we’ve always been in New York, it’s our first time getting together, and we’re going to dinner together after this. And it was just a dream. It was just a dream. And I’m here to let you know, the news. You know, because it is big news. You know, and one of the beautiful things about it is because it’s such big news, it also lets us know what we can do, and what is possible in the future but aside from it being big news, I’m also here to say thank you, you know, I’m here to say thank you.

And the thank you is because it hasn’t always been like this. You know, and I know that so many of you know this, but life looks so different now. It was so hard in the beginning. The person I was is not the person I am for so many reasons. I remember carrying a latent anger and sadness and heaviness, you know, and I’ve had to make so many changes in my life, as I worked hard and hustled and still try to show up and accomplish things and live a purposeful life and also prioritize my babies. And I think a lot of us can all relate to what it looks like. And I’m so grateful that the person I am now, what 15 years into entrepreneurship, is not who I was, in my first three years. It’s not who I wasn’t my first five years, heck, I’m not the person I was, four or five years ago, you know, when this divorce situation, you know, came into the mix.

And I just want to let you know that you’re entitled to change, and that you deserve growth. And you deserve to be loved. And you deserve to enter rooms of people who love you, and you deserve to enter them often. And all the work is worth it. You know, as long as it is work that is leading you in a forward moving way towards living even more in your truth than ever before. And you heard me talk about this at the top of the year. And if you’re new to this, I really encourage you to go back because being on the other side of this book journey, you heard me talk about the fear that I had, and what it would look like to share what I’ve shared. And, you know, even though I’m, you know, one of the words is often used as oh, she’s so vulnerable and authentic. And, you know, she was just so honest and truthful. And we’re all y’all like this book is 320 pages, it’s not everything. That’s like a page for a month of my life, right? So it’s not comprehensive. But you better believe I tried to keep it as forthright as I could, about what I knew when I did.

But it’s also my hope that in five years, I can add to this book or I can add to your life or that I have even more to share about the season I’m in right now. And it’s also my hope that when we meet again, with the next book, or the next moment or the next meet and greet or heck even when I come to meet and sign this book in person in your town because I am going to make it to Florida and I’m gonna make it to Northern California. And we’re gonna keep having these moments. And it’s my hope though, that the next time I see you, the way that you showed up this time that I’m able to tell you thank you in person and how much I deeply love and care about you. But also that in addition to finally, I can also say look at us. Look at how we’ve grown. Look at how we’ve changed. But let’s also honor the fact that even with all that growth change that nothing is missing. Thank you friend for the support. Nothing is Missing is available everywhere books are sold.

Nicole:

Friends, so you know that typically for our chats, it’s just me and it’s you cooking dinner, hanging out in your kitchen, being with the kids in the car, right to work. But occasionally, I like to invite someone in who I know is going to speak into, let me be honest, our lives.

And I have the opportunity to chat with someone who honestly I don’t know if everyone gets access to this level of knowledge, experience, and just genuine authentic warmth, wisdom. I’m here with Durana Elmi. She is the co-founder of Cymbiotika and I know a lot of you already know about Cymbiotika because back when I said I was looking to round out my supplement journey, the amount of people who slid into my DMs saying Cymbiotika is the way to go, was just overwhelming.

Well, because of that, you know, I love my research. I am so pleased to bring her in for this conversation. Now I just wanted to let you know that this is not a conversation strictly about supplements because you can go anywhere for that. You know who I am and you know how I love to honor our time together. When I have a powerful, strong, accomplished woman with a heck of a story across from me, I’m going to ask her how she got here. Because we all need the fuel to keep going so friends I’m so excited to welcome to Durana. Durana, thank you for being here.

Durana:

Thank you Nicole. You’re such a powerhouse yourself so oh such a privilege to be here to meet you. And I feel like I should be interviewing you. I could be learning a lot from what you do.

Nicole:

Oh my goodness and my angel she’s saying all this looking gorgeous, put together, hair curled right? And her kids, I bet you know where they are. I don’t know where mine are right now. Do you know what I mean? You are amazing.

Durana:
We could definitely be friends. I don’t know half the time, honestly. I’m like, one hour at a time. I can’t keep up with all life has to offer.

Nicole:

Yes. Oh, I get it. I get it. So before we dive into like all the work stuff in the stats, tell us about your babies. How old are they and what are their ages? All the good stuff?

Durana:
Yes. So I have two incredible daughters. Yasmine is 10 years old. Oh 10 going on to 40. She’s very, very mature. Truly my best friend. My second daughter, Ariana is eight and a half. And she’s probably about 33 right now. Her spirit is about 33 years old. Love, love being a mom. They have redefined what success means to me. They’ve given my life purpose and everything I do because of them and my incredible husband and my mother, has given me intention. Like I live with intention. It’s not just our company mantra, but everything is very intentional for me.

Nicole:

Oh, do y’all hear this? I told you, Durana is our people. Like she gets it because that is exactly how we all feel about our littles. You know if there is a reason to do the work we do. It’s because we’ve got these incredible legacies that we get the privilege of raising.

So all that being said, eight and 10. That is quite the energy. I’ve got an 11 year old and she turns 12 next week, I don’t know if she’s gonna make it. I’m telling you she’s driving me crazy. Like I’m telling she came out in a crop top and many shorts to go to sixth grade and it was an event. We had a conversation. How are you managing, having two littles knowing that you’ve got to get work done, you’ve got responsibilities. What’s it like momming every day?

Durana:

Well, at their birthday parties. I always have alcohol.

Nicole:

That’s right. That’s right. keeps us together. Listen, I went through a divorce. I’m telling you when people are like, do you drink? I’m like, I went through a divorce. Yes, I drink.

Durana:

That was honest. I always have some wine or champagne for the parents because I’m like, we have to be here together. Yeah, we’ll get through this.

Nicole:

Solidarity.

Durana:

So you know, it’s tough balance. When I was pre-kids, I was a corporate Gao and I did that really well. Then I had children and I was like, what is this? This is an absolute shit show. I don’t even I can’t even turn these kids off. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life, to be honest with you. After becoming a mother. My respect for moms went up a million folds, because I’m like, How do you do this? And, for me, to be honest, I first remind myself that I am completely imperfect. Every single day is not going to be how I plan it out to be. But I just tried to be the best version of myself.

And having two daughters who want to emulate everything that I do, I’m very cautious, most importantly, how I treat people. Because I think that if I can raise two daughters who are kind to themselves, in terms of how they speak of themselves, how they feel about themselves, and then they’re kind to the people around them, and they’re kind to the world, and they have the ability to think outside themselves, I believe that I can really make them rich, and the character that they’re going to be, and they’ll live a meaningful, purposeful life.

Nicole:

Oh, my goodness, y’all understand, we’re just at the beginning. I mean, like, so, so good, and so valuable. I think that’s something that comes up a lot. And I want to kind of call out what we’re hearing echoed from all the powerful ladies that we do chat with here. And we don’t chat with a lot, I really don’t say yes to a lot of interviews, because I do want to make sure that if I share someone with, you know, my community that I really understand their values and the product that they built, and you are a great example of that Durana.

And I think what you’ve shared here about giving yourself grace is something we all need to hear. We’re going to be imperfect, for sure. You know, and the idea about being present, you know, when you have a lot of things going on. So I want to ask you in a practical way, you know, I think that as moms like you were saying in corporate we think we have to do it all, you know, talk to me a little bit more about that. Do you have a team? Do you delegate? Have you learned how to, you know, have a support system? Or are you really doing it all like give us the real because you look good today you will seem put together you have this incredible business which is your fifth so what is the truth? You know, are you doing everything yourself?

Durana:

I think anyone that sits here or says that they do something all by themselves is full of shit.

Nicole:

PREACH. PREACH… Are y’all hearing that? It is normal to feel crazy because you’re not supposed to be doing it yourself.

Durana:

Yes. So I have an extraordinary team of women around me. So first off I don’t always look like this I got an amazing glam team. It is so hard. In college, I went to UCLA, I used to, I was a Mac girl so I know full blown how to do makeup. That’s what was like your skin, your skin is amazing. So now I’m at a place where I’m like so tired. My mom’s like for the love of God, you have all this makeup like put it on your face.

Nicole:
I need it.

Durana:
So I do, I have an amazing glam team that helps me with obviously hair and makeup. I had to get a personal trainer because it holds me accountable. And I’m not afraid to say that. When like on the weekends, I figure out different workouts that for me, I love tennis. So I found my love and passion in tennis that holds me accountable to go work out and I play tennis without realizing that I’m actually working out.

Nicole:

That’s actually really powerful. I hope you all are hearing that mom tips if you can find something you love to do, it’s both a treat, a stress reliever, and it can be exercise. That’s very good.

Durana:

And then on the work front, 70% of Cymbiotika are women. And I am incredibly proud of that. I love women. I shared with you earlier, I was born in Afghanistan. So my love for women comes from such a deep place because when I think about what the woman in Afghanistan are going through today, I’m reminded of how lucky and grateful that I am today, every day doing what I do wearing what I wear, I’m making the decisions that I make.

And so if I can pave the way and help support other women around me that I know that I’m really living a purposeful life. At work these women are smarter than me.

Nicole:
You’re so generous.

Durana:
I swear to God and so I love surrounding myself with women that enrich my thoughts, move my emotion and help me be a better person, help me think differently, help me show up not just to work but to everyone around me. So yes, I do have an amazing team of women around me. And I’ve got a husband who’s incredibly supportive and the truth is it’s not easy and I think we’re very very hard on ourselves because society makes you feel… First off you go look on social media right and social media…

Nicole:

Preach. Tell it, like everyone seems some people are eating pancakes in bed with their children and hosting whole photoshoots like, I can’t do it. Yeah, not real life.

Durana:

I feel like social media, it just really like it can trigger an insecurity in you. So for me, it’s like there’s a very fine balance. I will put a post, like a few and then I have to get off. I always detox from it, that’s good, because I don’t want it to consume my thoughts or control my narrative of how I feel like I should look and feel. And the truth is, you know, you, there’s so many beautiful women out there. And there’s so many levels of success. So if you go on social media, it almost makes you feel like you need to compare your life to other people. And the truth is, you only need to compare your life to yourself.

Nicole:

That’s so good. I mean, that is so powerful. I think that comparison is part of what can be so difficult. I mean, even when you listen to these podcasts, and you hear things like, well, I’ve got this team or I have this strong marriage. And it’s so easy for us to be inspired at the same time as we compare within. Where we’re like, well, maybe I can’t do it, because I don’t have a great partnership. Or maybe I can’t do it, because I don’t have a great team. But now I want to go back to the fact that you are from Afghanistan. I think that so many people here, this portion, start comparing, but they don’t understand that, you know, your chapter one did not look like this.

So they’re actually comparing it to something that isn’t really fair, because you’ve done the work to get here. So let’s go back as the child of immigrants, myself, both my parents from Ghana, West Africa, you know, I’m first generation. So it’s not lost on me the incredible privilege that I have to have the options I do as an American citizen. And I’m grateful for them, because I know that my future could look different. And it’s part of why I work so hard and I run so hard and why I share so big. And I see that in you as well.

So tell me a little bit about your background. I think it’s something we relate on. How do you think that having, you know, a background from Afghanistan inspires your work ethic and your appreciation for the life that you have?

Durana:

I was born in Afghanistan, I left when I was about three and a half months old. Obviously, I don’t remember Afghanistan. Unfortunately and fortunately, I’ve never been back. Unfortunately, because of the circumstances today I haven’t been back. But I would love to one day go. And that’s my roots, my culture, my bloodline, that’s where I am from. Today, I say, and I wholeheartedly mean this, I am so proud to be an Afghan American, because I’m very Americanized. But my mother has always taught me that in order to know where you’re going in life, you must always remember where you’ve come from.

Nicole:
Very good.

Durana:

And I’ve done a lot of philanthropy work in Afghanistan, I’ve built three schools there, my father was very strict growing up, because of the cultural and traditional differences and the vast between the American culture and an Afghan or Middle Eastern culture, very, very strict father. You won’t believe this but to the age of 12 to 18, I could never go out. I was like Cinderella.

Nicole:
Oh, oh, I can believe that, my parents are African. So you know, it’s interesting, because I think that, especially here in America, so many people don’t realize how many overlaps there are. If you have old school parents, where it’s like, oh, we don’t date, you know, that’s not a thing. Or if you have those parents who are like, look, the door closes at eight you got to be in. We actually share a lot culturally, more in common, I think, than people know. And same thing for me. You know, even though I did not grow up, I was born here. But my household was Ghanaian. You know, and those are the rules that would you know, run the household.

My parents would literally say, You’re not like these American children. You need to understand they can do whatever they want. But you are African, what do you need to do at the mall? And what is at the mall for you? You don’t need. What do you need to sleep over at someone’s house? You have bed here. Yeah, how I was growing up, that is the culture, right?

So even though you are fully American, and how you’ve been raised in three months, I mean, you were a baby. You were raised, you know, as if you were in Afghanistan, you know, just different opportunities. So what was that like for you? Because shaping your perspective around what you can accomplish when you are living in two worlds is very difficult to do.

Durana:

It warms my heart that you can resonate with that because most times people are like what? So my closest friends know how dark my childhood was. I cried a lot. To be honest. I was very sad as a child because I couldn’t understand my father. And he was very successful, very wealthy in Afghanistan, left everything because of the Russian invasion and Haiti and came here. And so for him, it was even shocking. So he became an alcoholic. And I have three brothers. My brothers could do anything. Like they can bring girlfriends to the house. I couldn’t do anything and so when I would want to sit with my father and ask him why. Why can I go out?

Nicole:
But you can’t ask why though. One more thing you can’t do.

Durana:

I wouldn’t. I would physically get my ass kicked. And that became very norm for me. So I spent a lot of time with myself. I didn’t, so reflecting now as an adult, what I realized all that time that I spent with myself, lifting myself up having that inner voice that was self-love. And my mother used to always share with me, she says you can self-destruct. And the only person you’re going to hurt is yourself, you’re not a victim in this life, this is just your life. This is just your story.

So I never victimized myself for my childhood, I just remember that when I have the ability and the power to get out of this circumstance, I am going to do something powerful.

Nicole:
That’s right.

Durana:
I am going to make sure that my story can inspire another young girl. My father would never let me celebrate my birthday. And I’ve never ever actually share this. My closest friends know this about me because I, every year I throw a very, very big birthday. And I don’t do it because I love throwing massive parties. Well, part of that, of course.

Nicole:
Party is a good time.

Durana:

Yeah, the truth is I do that because I was never able to celebrate my birthday. So all the nights and days that I would cry, because my father wouldn’t even acknowledge my birthday, I would say to myself, God, if you give me the strength to get through these days, one day, I’m going to honor my breath. I’m going to honor my life. So that’s the reason why I throw such massive birthday parties because it’s my way of showing gratitude to God, to the universe, to my friends through the journey. So life wasn’t easy. But I think that at the end of the day, what you tell yourself determines your outcome.

Nicole:

Oh, so good. So, so good. I want to touch on that. Because I actually when I tell you the overlaps, y’all I told you, she’s our people, birthday blues are a thing. You know, there’s nothing more awkward to me now, as an adult, when people are like, oh, have like, I don’t even want people to know, because it’s so awkward, because I’m so used to not having birthdays, you know, don’t call attention to yourself, we don’t have money for that, you know, that’s an American thing. You know, like, that was kind of how I was raised.

So this year is my first real birthday party that I’m going to throw like a big one for myself. So I get it. And I really want to call out here something that I think you may be in a unique place to speak on. And I talk about this but, you know, for all my friends listening here, you know how sometimes you hear it from one person, we gotta hear from another to know that this is really true, there is so much that comes from taking the time to talk to yourself,the way that you deserve to be treated. And that is something you started doing when you were young. I didn’t start doing this until honestly, maybe eight years ago with like a lot of therapy, I really started coaching myself around, you know, even if you’re scared, give it a shot, you know, would you do the same treatment, you know, would you beat yourself up? If you were doing it to your children? No, you wouldn’t beat your kids up over making a mistake. So why would you do that to yourself, you know, I really had to work hard on restructuring the way that I treated myself right down to wellness, you know, which we’re gonna get into in a minute, you know, because that’s one of your, your whole business. You know, I wasn’t even good to myself, nutrition wise. 

But that said, you started doing that at a young age, which is such an incredible response to trauma. Has that been something you’ve called upon through motherhood? Being a business owner, in the day to day do you find yourself kind of coaching yourself through?

Durana:

Yeah, I want to mention something really interesting. When I was going through this trauma, I always listened to music. And now today, like music has become a really powerful way to heal yourself.

Nicole:
Wow.

Durana:
So I love music even they say like, like sounds like different beats help you through your pain, and can help you like through anxiety. And I didn’t know that but I love music and music has been a big part of my healing and has been a big part of like, who I am. I love music and even today, I wake up to music.

Nicole:
That’s incredible.

Durana:
And so I think that people and individuals have to figure out what helps them kind of get through the pain. So for me, it was music. I also at a young age cut out pictures and magazines to take away from my reality. And almost again, it’s called manifestation today…

Nicole:

Vision boarding. I mean, it’s what people are doing, but you’re you were doing at a young age.

Durana:
I would take myself out of my sadness and my sorrow and I would say okay, I had these posters, like, this is what my life will be like this and I would go into that. And so I would think about it so much. I think I 100% manifested my husband, I’ve manifested my life. I used to have a credit card is to be a size of a credit card and the one side had my three year plan and on the backside had my five year plan.

Nicole:
Incredible.

Durana:
And I believe that if you write it, you see it and you have it with you every single day. You live and you work towards it.

Nicole:

That’s like a biblical, so I’m Christian. That’s a biblical principle. They say write it down and make it plain because there’s real power In tongue in the Word, you know, so a lot of times we keep things inside because we think it’s safer than articulating it. But little do you know that is, you know, a plight, a tool of negative energy, right, you know, is telling you to keep it inside, you’re saying that writing things down, making it visual actually helps you kind of wrap yourself around it, so that you can actually make it real.

Durana:
Yeah.

Nicole:
Beautiful, beautiful, incredible. So I mean, this is all we could, I could literally probably talk to you forever, about just that stage of your life because I know that so much great work happened there to get you where you are today. So now you’ve built this incredible business. And it’s interesting, because on a lot of these podcast chats, y’all, people will start with, so you built this incredible business, and you do all these things, and then they go into the hardship. I want to tell you right now, I like starting with the hard stuff. Because if you hear all the glitz and glamour, it can be difficult to believe that this hard stuff came first. And I want you to know, real mom, every day, tough background, nothing handed to her had to do the same work that we’re all doing, which is coaching ourselves and building a fan all again, actionable work to make it real. So I want to talk about the start of the Cymbiotika brand. So when you first started, was it just an idea? What was the problem you were trying to solve?

Durana:

So there are three founders at Cymbiotika, my husband and myself and Chervin Jafarieh.

Nicole:
Okay.

Durana:

And the start of it was, we were living in Atlanta at the time. We were on our fourth business, my husband and I have realized we’re very ying and yang. He has things that he’s great at, I am terrible at the things that I am great at or good at or that I’m passionate about is not his forte. 

Nicole:
Wonderful. But y’all had a foundation of trust. Yes. And that’s a very big thing. Because you all know I’ve talked about relationships, plenty here, if you don’t have the trust that each person will do the part that they say they will do. It’s not going to work, even if you’re yin and yang.

Durana:

Yeah, well, yes, very true. And that also applies to the folks that you hire and bring on and your work family. That’s you hire folks, and you’ve hired them, but you don’t trust them. You’re better off letting them go.

Nicole:
That’s so good.

Durana:

Hire people trust them, you know, provide them with resources, tools, and then get out of their way and have that spirit of trust.

Nicole:

Wow, that is worth the price of entry right there. Write that down. That was a freebie. You’re welcome.

Durana:
I love you.

Nicole:
It’s true. I mean, that is like literally, we’re talking business school right there in one sentence, because someone right now listening is going to fire that assistant, who is wasting their time and energy. So thank you for that. But circling back to the so there’s three of y’all, and you’re starting it and what did you just sit down and you’re like, oh, you know, like, we need better supplements, or I mean, how does this even start?

Durana:
So my husband, Shahab, and Chervin were high school friends. So they had known one another so they go way back. We were living in Atlanta, we came here to visit because we have a lot of family and friends from Orange County, LA and we originally from Orange County. So we came out here. It was a kid summer break, we had state rented a home and we’re inviting all of our different friends that we haven’t seen in so long. And my husband invites Chervin over and at the time, I call it Cymbiotika 1.0 because there was one product, it was called Omega. And Chervin’s expertise is the science side of the business. He loves it. He’s incredibly great and passionate about producing formulations, products that work…

Nicole:
And are high quality and all of that. And y’all if you’re not familiar with Cymbiotika, the details will be in the show notes. It is worth checking out if you are interested in supplements, if you have been using supplements, I just encourage you to take another look at what you’re using versus what they’re offering to make sure because there’s a lot of evolution in the supplement world and Cymbiotika is on the on the forefront of that. So just check it out. It’s worth looking at. So I love this story just because, literally people think they have to be like struck with a genius or have 15 degrees to come up with a great idea and you’re telling me like I was a mom hanging out with my friends, you know, out of town even with the kids. And we all got together and sat down and we started kind of noodling the first version because it’s not perfect the first time.

Durana:
No, it’s not.

Nicole:
Many lessons

Durana:

Many lessons. And so when we sat back and you know kind of talked about well, what is the infrastructure of the company look like? There was none. Again, because it just wasn’t his passion like he’s like I’m just a guy trying to make great products like what I mean infrastructure, but that’s my husband’s and I that’s our forte, we come from a corporate background, I worked at T Mobile, AT&T. He worked at AT&T as well. And so that’s like our bread and butter. That’s how we know how to build scale the importance of infrastructure, people, culture. So the company was not doing well at the time and he said hey, you know, we should join forces because we all bring something so different to the table. It aligned with our values personally at the time. And still today, because after having two daughters, I had to reevaluate what success meant for me.

Nicole:

Yes, who don’t we all right? Do we even want it at all at the expense of our family? That’s something we all have to ask ourselves.

Durana:
Well, in corporate America success was for me at the time was defined by my salary, my title, and how many bags I had.

Nicole:
That’s right. That’s right.

Durana:
I had no children. I’m like, Yeah, I’m just accumulating things. And I had no work life balance. So the minute I had some time off, I was doing some retail therapy.

Nicole:
For sure.

Durana:
And after having daughters, I sat back with my husband. And I’m like, what? Like, what’s my story? Once these girls get old enough? That’s good. Mom’s super cool. We never see her. But she’s got a lot of bags. And I said to Shahab, I said, you know, we’ve got to redefine our stories. This isn’t our legacy. We’ve learned a lot here, built incredible mentors, you know, made a lot of money, great investments on the side, but this can’t be it.

Nicole:
Can we just pause for a second on this can’t be it because I’ve talked about this a lot, where I just want to battle against what we’re hearing so much in the world, which is, oh, you’re lacking money. Oh, you’re lacking this, and I don’t want to minimize money is a beautiful tool. It is so nice to have options. It’s a great gift. And you all deserve it. Okay, that is 100%. True. But it is not everything. And I have not met a single person who has made millions who hasn’t said to themselves at some point, this can’t be it. And ‘ve said it, you know, you’re saying it now. And I just want to call that out to let you know that if you’re starting from the beginning, keep that in mind, because you will come to this question as well.

So here you are saying like, you know, we know what it’s like to make money through corporate, we know what it’s like to have this stuff. We want to build something that allows us to also honor the life that we want to have, and also leave a great impact in the world. And that’s what happened here.

Durana:

Yeah, the times where I made the most money. It was the moments that I was most miserable.

Nicole:

That’s good. That’s good.

Durana:

It’s a very, like honest, discussion that are, you know, like an honest moment you have to have with yourself.

Nicole:

A lot of people don’t.

Durana:

I was miserable. I didn’t like the person I worked for. They didn’t make me feel good. And I lived a life just like going through the motions. Yeah, like, I just got to show up to work.

Nicole:
Yes.

Durana:
So for us, we had a lot of, you know, we had done well financially. And at this point, what my husband and I wanted was, we wanted to own our time back, because we didn’t own time. Corporate America owned our time, but that’s okay, that works for some.

Nicole:

And there’s nothing wrong with it. Because for some people, that structure affords you the life that you want to have, and let’s not minimize benefits, you know, I can appreciate not wanting to worry about, you know, navigating benefits and those things when you have a kid who has, you know, health conditions or whatever. But there’s also something to be said for always having a source of revenue, even on the side that you control. I always encourage that for everyone. And you know, call that an immigrants, you know, perspective, but you always want to have your own money.

Durana:

Yeah. And so at the time when we didn’t have children, corporate America was great for us. Yep. But after having children. The first steps my daughter, Yasmine took, I remember the nanny sending me a message saying your daughter took her first steps. And I was like it till this day, like makes me want to cry, because I’m like, if you really reflect back on what matters, it’s that. It’s those moments.

Nicole:
You can’t pay for those back, no matter how much money you make. I get it, even though again, grace to the mamas, some of us have to work and we understand it. But the truth is, if you had a choice, we all know where we would be. Yeah. So it was at that small table, you know, that it was like, Hey, we all have something to lend to this. We’re going to build this thing out, we’re gonna make it happen. And it’s really exciting. Because I mean, the product suite that you have at Cymbiotika is impressive. You know, and I know it started with, you know, one product that you’ve grown and scaled as you’re, you know, engaging with the market. My personal favorite thing about the company as I’m a corporate consultant, that’s my background. The thing that I love about the company is their approach to supplements, you know, the way that they’ve innovated the delivery of supplements is what really makes it stand out.

So for y’all who are like, well, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Most vitamins and supplements come in pill form. And that’s very challenging, I’ll just say for me, you know.

Durana:
And me.

Nicole:
You know, like I’ve hear it all the time. The last thing I want, especially as I’ve age is to take 15 pills, you know, to get the wide range of pure clean, you know, vegan products that I need. You guys do this thing called liposomal technology. And I don’t need to get into all the nuances. And frankly, none of us care. We care about how it works with our life, right? Liposomal technology basically means it’s like a gel.

Durana:

It’s a liquid form, it has the highest absorption rate, so your body absorbs it like its food. And so for us, it was when we first look, I’m sorry, if I could just take a quick step. No, of course, I think it’s important when you get into a business to really understand the landscape and understand the competitive landscape. So for us, we 100% believed and yes, there is such a lack of this in the industry, we looked at the competitive landscape. And really, there was none there, I had oversight before as being transparent. No one is creating products with no synthetics, no fillers, all organic, and just being completely authentic, and, you know, transparent in terms of how they’re making their products.

For us, it was like, we’re on to something. The world is lacking this. And again, it aligned with our values. So then we looked at, again, the competitive landscape and said, Well, everyone has this in pill form. And for me, I’ve got a pallet of a child.

Nicole:
Yep, same.

Durana:
I take the slightest thing, you know, my son, my son, my tummy hurts. So we were like, there are no supplements today, that isn’t a liquid form, that’s really filling that bridging the gap and bridging the gap, but is fulfilling the gaps in your modern diet. And we are going to do that. So we started out then that was Cymbiotika 2.0 is what I call it. And so when we started out, we built an infrastructure first and foremost, because most people think and they look at the success. But every single time we were profitable, we were successful, we took that money, and we put it right back into the business. So we built infrastructure, we brought our fulfillment in house. Then we… fulfillment for anyone, I apologize, I say that. But you know, we were using a third party logistics company that was fulfilling our orders. And there were a lot of issues, delays, all those things. So we said, You know what, we’ve got to bring in our fulfillment in house, we opened our own warehouse.

Nicole:
Which is very risky. Just let y’all know, as it is a bold move in business to say that you’re going to do in house fulfillment, because inventory management can be a killer that literally can sink your business, if you aren’t ordering the right amount. If you aren’t shipping out at the right time. I have a lot of business owners who are listening right now who can understand and relate to that. And, you know, but what I want to call out more than anything is, it’s a choice that every company actually has to make. If they are product-based at some point, and there’s no getting around it, you will look at your inventory and you will say I have to bring this in house to generate the right revenue and to scale.

And so for those of you who are listening, who are of the business standpoint, it’s a bold move. But if you make the right choices on the front end, you’ll feel confident in your numbers, you know, you’ll still feel scared, because it’s always scary.

Durana:
Always scary.

Nicole:
But it is the right move. So that was bold. And that speaks to sort of the team that you had around you, for you all to be able to say, we’re going to take this next big leap.

Durana:

Yeah. And we also brought in our customers experience in house, which again, very, very costly to do, especially in California.

Nicole:
And people management, oh, my goodness, just like headaches. You know what I mean? When you’re just managing people,

Durana:

We always reflect on the fact that we went from a company that was, you know, two people to today, we’re almost at 100. And so we brought everything in house, we brought in tech in house, we brought in marketing in house. And I think that’s very, very important is that you’ve got to invest in yourself. And for all the business owners that are listening, if you’re getting into a business to make money, I believe you’re getting in for the wrong reason.

Nicole:
That’s right.

Durana:
You’ve got to get in because you’re passionate about what you’re doing. There’s a purpose that you’re trying to fulfill, then the money will come. And most importantly, you’ve got to be prepared to fail.

Nicole:

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Because you’re gathering data around winning when you fail, you know. And so that’s a big one. So, I mean, you entered the market with this new product. And I’m excited, I know that I happen to know the Cymbiotika story so I’m going to lead you into something that I want them to hear. I’m sure that the minute you enter the product you just took off and everybody wanted one and you were in every store and everyone loved you and you were the greatest company in the entire world and everything was perfect. And you made millions of dollars.

Durana:
Not at all.

Nicole:
<laughs> Really surprise, you know, the internet doesn’t make it seem that way. Right. So So I want to know, can you just let all the people out there right now who are saying, this is crazy. I’m trying every day I’m knocking down doors. I feel like I’m the only one. How did it really happen?

Durana:

We failed a lot. And I think that every time you fail, the answer is you just haven’t come up with a solution.

Nicole:
That’s right. That’s right.

Durana:

And so we fail a lot. The one thing is we’ve all stuck together and we believe and each other we believe in each other’s strengths. We continue to invest in the infrastructure and the team. When COVID happened, everyone regressed in their businesses, started shutting down their offices, we doubled down and said, we believe in ourselves, try, let’s go all in. And we even opened a larger office and said, We’re going to build greater teams within each department. Today, you know, people ask us are you in, you know, this particular store. And although it sounds really glamorous to be in every store, you have to make decisions that A. are true to your brand. B. You have to make sure that you can, you know, support that distribution, that you have the cash flow, because we’re self-funded, to if you know, if it doesn’t, if your products don’t move, you’re gonna have to buy that back.

Nicole:

Exactly. Right. And a lot of people don’t know that. Yeah. So I just want to let all of you know that you know, it’s a flex on the internet, people are like, Oh, we are in 100 targets nationwide, you may not know if you’ve never worked with a consultant, that target has one of the strictest buyback policies. And sometimes the deal to buy back is at a discount. So you can actually post a loss and get your inventory back and not be able to sell it. So you know, that’s not always the biggest flex, you may want to be, if you’re especially if you’re self funded, aware of your distribution, ecommerce can be a great place to start.

Durana:
Yeah, so we’re, you know, primarily D to C. And we’ve launched about a month or so ago, we had a soft launch in Dubai. Wow. And we know we’re in Canada, we’re in Australia, and we plan to go into Europe soon. But we’re very, very methodical in terms of where we go. Because it’s, it sounds great to be in all these places. But you have to make sure that you have an infrastructure to support that market. You have to have the infrastructure to support wholesale and every single experience in terms of our customer, if we’ve got a wholesaler, that’s our customer. If we’ve got, Target, that’s our customer, we’re not in target. As an example. Yep. So you’ve got to make sure that you’re delivering the same experience as you are D to C. So for us, if we can’t support that channel, we will hold off until we know it’s the right time for us. Again, because sometimes too fast of a growth can take you backwards.

Nicole:

Yeah. So okay. I know that we’ve had a ton of time here. But there’s so much in what you’re saying. And I hope everyone’s hearing it, you are literally a wealth of knowledge, because you are tucking in gems for life, right here with gems for business, you know, you don’t always want fast growth, you want sustainable growth. Sometimes we have to say no to opportunities we’re not ready for because I’m sure you guys get offers from large corporations. But it does not make sense. If it doesn’t fit into your strategy. Yes, you’re also sharing that intentionality matters again, and that is the thing I kind of want to close on because I have noticed that whether it is your life, you know, the things you survived when you were younger, and how you took that pain and trauma and applied it to your future or your business, the choices and changes and pivots you made for your personal success and private goals, intentionality, and strategy and structure are things that are the same everywhere.

You’re always intentional about everything you do. Can you just leave us with sort of, I hate to put the pressure on the one gem right, you know, but for the woman out there who’s saying to herself right now, I feel like my life is taking over. I feel like it’s not my own, you know, every day, I’m kind of running on autopilot. I feel like I need a fresh start. I feel like I’ve lost myself. You know, I’m working in the corporate job I’m clocking in but it’s killing my soul. You know, and I’m serving these babies. Where is one place I can get more intentional and take back a little bit of my life in my dreams? Where should I start?

Durana:

Self love. Self love for me is very important because I feel like it’s the foundation to how you do anything and everything. And I have a lot of girlfriends that say I don’t have the time to do something and I say you’re wrong. You haven’t made it important. It hasn’t become a priority for you. It’s not important enough. So for me, if there’s something, an aspect of your life where you’re like, gosh, you know, my I’m not happy with my career. You gotta I always say take a step back. Are you happy with yourself personally? Make those changes first. Because if you are happy from within, and you feel good, you feel empowered, you are able to conquer anything that comes your way.

Nicole:

Y’all. When I tell you you can skip church on Sunday, this was a whole sermon. Okay? I mean, come on, Durana with the fire. Okay, I’m over here revved up y’all like I could do laps around this building. So I am so grateful that you came in today not just to speak to into those of us who have businesses, you know, you’ve spoken to our little entrepreneurial souls, but to the mamas out there, you know, reminding us that we’re worthy and we should love ourselves because we’re showing up big every single day. Okay, as beautiful and wonderful and accomplished as you are, thank you for coming in here being real. I mean, there’s not enough of that. And you know, I think a lot of people tend to judge a book by their cover. And they forget that we’re all so much more than that and your realness is not lost on me. So, Durana, thank you for being here.

Durana:

Thank you, Nicole. What a pleasure. I love your energy. Oh, I like your energy. I mean, my goodness, can I bottle up your energy?

Nicole:

Unbelievable look, if we can figure out how to do it, but until then, there’s Cymbiotika. <laughs>

Durana:

Thank you so much for all your love and support.

Nicole:
And thanks for being here. Thank you.

Nicole:

Friends, friends, friends. Now I know, every week I tell you, I am excited about what we’re going to chat about. But this chat is going to be one that I think is really going to resonate with all of you because how many of you have said to me, Nicole, I have known you for, you know, virtually known, right? But like, we’re friends, you get it. I’ve known you for 10 years, I saw you have your quit day live online in front of 10,000 people. I’ve seen the littles grow up, I have watched you have a relationship, get out of a relationship, find a new relationship.

I mean, you have seen me through my wigs, you know, from synthetic to high quality custom made. Okay, we have been through it. And what’s great is that the number one thing I always hear from you is Nicole, like, I want to make my own changes. You know, I want to make sure that I’m keeping balance in my life, that I am prioritizing what matters to me, but I also want to feel like I am stepping into my calling and that I am fully allowing myself to be all the things and I’m taking my tiny steps.

But Nicole, you just kind of jump out there. Well, today, I get to have a chat with someone who is just brilliant. And you all may know her already if you listen to good podcasts like this one, you know, she is the host, creator, founder of Balanced Black Girl, Les Alfred. Now you follow her online. You keep up with her incredible interviews where she brings some of the most generous, smart, wise women of color, to have conversations on how they are healing and growing and balancing. But what’s incredible about the chat we’re about to have today is it’s rare that you get to talk to someone who is willing to show that they’re on a journey of their own, and is willing to meet you where you are. And what I love about her is that she really is an open book. And more so than any chat we’ve ever had before. I’m sure you can hear it in my tone right now lean in, we’re going to have a conversation about where you are. And we’re going to do it by being transparent about where we are. And I think that this is going to literally change your life. Les. Thank you so much for being here.

Les:

Nicole, thank you for having me. And for that beautiful introduction.

Nicole:

Oh, it’s true. It’s true. People can’t even see right now. Y’all go to my social at Nicole Walters, I have a social media clip of this posted. I rarely post to my feed about my podcast interviews, but you are so gorgeous, that it is literally your face is walking clickbait. Like, I know, I’m gonna get more views just because of the way you look. So I’m like, it’s gonna be like freeze frame. Right here, viral status thank you for letting me leverage your eyebrows for my own success.

Les:

That’s the ultimate compliment coming from you because I know you don’t play about a your eyebrows.

Nicole:

I do not, I would not leave my child with someone with bad eyebrows. I have actually walked out of medical procedures, I was going in to get Botox… maybe like, I think it was like two months ago. And when I went to this facility, it was a brand new facility. And the lady at the front register had just atrocious eyebrows. When I say they were eyebrows from like 1992. You know, they were shaded in with black eyeliner. You know, it was the universal like, what are you doing? Right? And I left? I just left she was like, Oh, what about your appointment? And I was like, I don’t need it. You know what I mean? She wasn’t even gonna do my eyebrows. But I was like anyone who hires someone at the front, with eyebrows like that so casually, you know, is just not it’s not a facility I can trust.

Les:

Yeah. Where’s the attention to detail? Where’s the needle in your face?

Nicole:

I left. I was like, no, you are not stabbing with needles. I will rather I would rather look like what I’m going through. risk having this happened to me. So. But this is all a tangent. Although I feel like there was a lot of value right up front of you right up front. You’re like, good, good, good to know. But I’m so excited that you’re here, because we’ve just been catching up. And I definitely want to get right into it. But for those who don’t know you, let’s just give them a little background. Yes, you started this podcast and it has taken off. Can you tell us a little bit about why you started? And then go into your favorite interview? And like how that kind of encompasses the Balanced Black Girl podcast.

Les:

Yes. So I’ll take it back a little bit. Because I first started my content creation journey in 2014., 

Nicole:

Which is what you do for a living!

Les:

Yes.

Nicole:

Like you’re a professional content marketer for corporations. So you know what you’re doing. It’s so good, your content, so good. I’m like, come do my stuff.

Les:

Lots of practice, lots of practice. I started off as a blogger in 2014. At the time, I was working in corporate comms and I was a personal trainer on the side and I got burnt out of fitness. I was overdoing it on fitness, I needed to find…

Nicole:

Never my problem. <laughs>

Les:

Yeah, it can happen, it can happen. And I just needed to scale back a little bit and find my own balance in terms of like, not being super hyper focused on fitness, looking for other positive outlets in my life. So I started a blog and started sharing what I was doing to try and be healthy, but not too healthy and not go too far. Because back in the 2010s, it was a little…

Nicole:

Listen, it got stuck for a while, you know, like and I mean, honestly, it always is in some pocket of the Internet where people are sharing things. They’re like, I don’t know if that science, you know…

Les:

I’m not sure if that’s healthy.

Nicole:
Yeah it might be working but I don’t know if that’s science.

Les:

Right. Right. And so I felt myself going towards that rabbit hole and I had to pull myself back.

Nicole:

That’s good. Was there anything that triggered that for you?

Les:
You know, for a while I had been living alone. And I was in the deepest like, over exercising, not nourishing myself, binge eating. And then I ended up moving in with a friend from college, we became roommates. I wanted to save some money. And she had a very like normal, healthy relationship with food, and her body and so forth. And so when I was around her, I was like, Oh, you’re not measuring everything you eat. Oh, you don’t have like a meltdown if you can’t make it to the gym that day. I was like, that sounds nice. Yeah, maybe I’ll take a page out of your book. 

And so it was being out of isolation and being around other people who had healthy relationships with fitness, food, their bodies that really helped.

Nicole:

So this is actually really powerful, I think in multiple lessons here. And y’all I think you’re seeing the power of this, especially because a lot of my listeners are, you know, moms, you know, who are saying for the first time like I feel an isolation, right, you know, just not intentionally, but it’s just the circumstances of the moment or they’re entrepreneurs who are like, you know, you work in a bubble or just you know, a lot of us find ourselves especially I think once you kind of crossed that 30 mark, where you’re in isolation unless you seek out community.

And one of the things that I don’t think a lot of us realize that you just called out here is that it’s when you enter community that you can really start examining, is the way that I’m living making sense? And what could I learn from seeing other people? Now, when you set up the Balanced Black Girl podcast, I mean, you essentially are bringing community to people, you know, by letting them see from where they are right? Because right here, this is my community. Hey, y’all, I love y’all, you know, like if this were a thing, you know, so you get it. So where did this tie in after you started seeing like, Okay, what am I doing? Then what happened?

Les:
Yeah, so I got very immersed in the wellness content world. And I did that for about four years creating fitness content, creating recipes and doing the whole Instagram fitness, wellness 2016 girl thing. I ended up getting really burnt out because I’ve been side hustling, you know, working multiple jobs, doing all of the things and I just took a break from it from content all together.

Nicole:
You should just shut down.

Les:
I did.

Nicole:

That’s a thing. That’s a category, right? Where people on social media will be like, I’m taking a break, then they just ghost and then like, I come back and start over with something new, you know?

Les:
Pretty much. Yeah. And while I was gone, I would have some people who followed me be like, hey, Les, I know you’re taking a break. But when I don’t see you posting, I don’t see other black girls talking about wellness in my feed. Like you were the only person I saw who looked like me who talked about fitness in this way.

Nicole:
Isn’t it crazy to think 2014 makes you an OG blogger? Right? You know, right, because I’ve been on the internet since I think 2009. And that is like, first early adopter. So you get it.

Les:
Yeah, it’s a different world.

Nicole:

It was very different.

Les:

It was, it was a lot more siloed.

It was siloed. But it was also social media was still social. So I feel like a lot of the relationships had a depth and organic thing where they would send you messages and say, hey, you know, where are you? I’m thinking, I noticed you’re gone, right? Because we’re doing this thing together. You know, it really did feel more like without the presence of lives, you know, FaceTiming a friend or texting a friend. So I can see how you’d already started building community but it wasn’t the type of community that you wanted.

Les:
Exactly.

Nicole:
You know, so you were figuring that out? Exactly. And so y’all I hope you’re hearing you know, sort of kind of where we’re going with this because we’re about to get to, I would hate to call it the tea because it’s not tea. It’s like our real life, you know what I mean? But not understanding and figuring out what you want is a very normal part of the journey. So if you are in a place right now, where you’re saying to yourself, I don’t know if I like what I’ve built, whether it’s in your marriage, your career, your friendships, your body, or you are trying to figure out where you’re supposed to be because you’re called for more, it is not weird to take a break. It is not weird to figure that out, which is exactly what you did. And so when you came back, what did that look like?

Les:

Yeah, so I could see that there was a need. My audience wanted to see other black women in wellness who they could learn from. So I thought, okay, I can introduce my audience to other black women in wellness, and maybe a podcast would be a good way to do that, because it’s a little more intimate. It’s a conversation, they can learn a little bit more about their stories. And I got the idea for the podcast and launched it 10 days later, which is like a story in and of itself. 

Nicole:

No, I mean, that is like so I think a lot of people don’t understand that. That is also a thing that’s very common with entrepreneurs, you know, where, once you kind of land on the field, like where you’re like, Okay, this is the thing.

Les:
Yeah, you go.

Nicole:
You have to do it without even thinking about it on some levels. Like, you still plan on some Oh, what do I need, whatever. But then it’s like, we just gotta go before I think about it too much. Exactly. I do it. So my podcast launched it, $25 mic, yeah, in between sweaters in a closet, you know, debuted at number six in the world. You know what I mean? Just because I just did it. Yep. So inspiration hit. You did that. What happened?

Les:
Yep. So I launched it in October 2018. Started off with some solo episodes and started off by just interviewing my other friends who were black women in wellness. Trainers that I knew, other black women.

Nicole:

You knew people though.

Les:
I did yeah.

Nicole:
You’re making it seem like you interviewed. Like, you know, Tanya, who ran the dry cleaners, you know, down the street. It wasn’t like that necessarily. It was also like you knew some heavy hitters, which was great because you built that network.

Les:

Yeah. And we were all able to kind of grow and kind of glow up professionally together. And so once it it hit back in 2018 it’s just been going ever since.

Nicole:

I love that, I love that. Consistency y’all if you’re if you’re listening you know a lot of it is that if you have that thing that really is on your heart stick with it. Yeah, you know and it’ll keep growing. So okay, y’all got the background, let’s talk about the real. So you’ve built this incredible thing you know and I understand it because I have done the same you know in building Inherit Learning company and you know, writing my book but the truth is, we all enter a season of starting over fresh starts, which is something I’ve really been talking about a lot this year, you know, post my divorce and moving to LA and my book, Nothing is Missing, which y’all on shelves October 10. You know, I want to know, where are YOU now? Because you have spent so much time giving everyone else on this journey, the tools you have collected a lot.

Do you feel like you’re finally settling into how you want to show up in this world both professionally and personally?

Les:
I think I’ve spent a lot of time putting other people on, which I’m honored to do. I think it’s one of my gifts is to be able to connect people and to shine a light on others. And now I’m kind of ready to put myself on a bit more and invest in myself more.

Nicole:

Yeah, listen, y’all. I mean, I’m telling you, I love this, because I think that so many of us spend a very long time in that “putting other people on” season. And we don’t recognize when it’s our turn. And it’s because we do live in a society that glorifies heavily, you know, the giving, the sharing, the setting yourself on fire to keep others warm, like, that’s the thing, and there’s nothing wrong with being of service. But within that you learned so much like, I look at the people you have interviewed, the companies you built, you know, incorporate, and it’s like, you’re right, you have all the tools.

So then I have to ask, you know, because I think a lot of us, especially as black women, you know, and within marginalized communities, you know, and as women, right? Because I have, you know, listeners here who are just my lighter brighters, you know, we’re women to write, you know, that are listening, and they’re like, look like, I am capable, and I know that. But why haven’t I started to really put myself on like, why haven’t I taken my turn? You know, I can feel that it’s my, me season. Do you know why that is for you? If indeed, you feel that to be true? 

Les:
Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of it is fear, which I think a lot of people can relate to whether that’s fear of success, fear of being seen, and what that means when you open yourself up to being seen, and that unknown, can be exciting, but it can also be scary.

Nicole:

Yeah, I love the honesty in that. And I think that it’s so powerful and necessary for women like us who other people from the outside are like you have it together, your skin is clear. Are you wearing Spanx? You know like they look at us and they think these women are just all around, right? And the answer y’all is yes I’m wearing Spanx. Always, you know what I mean? Always wearing Spanx. But being fearful is something that we’re going to continuously encounter because if we’re doing it right, we’re gonna keep starting over. Yeah, we’re gonna keep having fresh starts. And what is the big thing? The big leap right now you think you have in this season that you’re most afraid of?

Les:

Yeah, I think it would be going all in on my podcast and going all in on my content, is a big leap.

Nicole:

Yeah, it is a big leap. But it feels like the next leap?

Les:
I think so.

Nicole:
So everyone, I want you to listen, right now, we all have a thing like that. We all have a thing like that. I’m gonna share mine. I’m not gonna put you out there and not put myself out there too. I’m not gonna leave you on a limb.

Les:
I appreciate that. <laughs>

Nicole:
So you know, everyone right now, I would love for you to, you know, just in your mind’s eye and your heart of hearts privately by yourself in your car. If there is something that you want to articulate, you know, to yourself, what is your big leap that you’re afraid of? You know, what is the thing that you know, will be your up level? You know that it makes sense even if it doesn’t make sense, you know? Say it to yourself out loud, because then we’re gonna get into it. So my big leap right now is that I’m in a season of needing to ask for help. Heavily. Yeah, I have done a lot of the things that I need to do. I’ve hit professional milestones and accomplishments. And I literally cannot get where I need to go without asking people for help. And accepting it.

When I tell you, even saying it out loud right now makes me want to tear up because it is the most uncomfortable thing for me to believe that it isn’t just doing it myself. You know, we talked about being the eldest child, how many siblings do you have?

Les:
I have a younger brother.

Nicole:
I only have one. I also have a younger sister. So it’s just like, aren’t you far apart? I’m seven years apart.

Les:
Yeah. Eight years apart.

Nicole:
There you go. Yeah. But same, same. Are you a Scorpio?

Les:

No, I’m a Leo.

Nicole:
Oh, okay. I was gonna say get out of my life. <laughs> But it’s true. Like, when you have that older kid, maternal, corporate background, you know, you’re just used to getting it done. And there is something deeply uncomfortable about recognizing that. There’s an element of letting go and surrender. Yeah. You know, in this world. So did you echo that? Do you feel that? Or is it like, have you identified what it is? It’s kind of surrounding the fear around making this leap? Like, what it’s going to mean about you?

Les:
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it kind of related to what we were just saying about being an eldest daughter, first gen, in many ways is how many things we’ve had to figure out on our own. And I’m like, I’m tired of figuring stuff out on my own.

Nicole:

She’s exhausted and she’s exhausted. There’s a lot of celebration, and I’m hoping you all here, this is a lot of celebration around figuring out on your own right. Like in our society, I feel like there’s so much like, oh, wow, she built it. She did this, you know what it’s like, but also she didn’t want to, right? Like she had to, right? She’s tired, you know, and, and I gotta tell you that I can feel myself growing in this season, every time I ask because it is always meant affirmatively. 

And so if there’s anything I can say to you, it’s that I don’t, I can’t see you making a leap and not being caught by so many people. I would catch you, I would help you because you small and light.

Les:
Girl…

Nicole:
You fit, I feel like you’d balanced yourself, you know, I feel like no, I will catch you because like one you’re worthy and deserving of being caught. Two, I don’t even think you’re gonna need it because you’re doing such incredible work, you know? So let’s talk about painting a vision. It sounds cheesy, but what do you think it would look like if you made the leap? Let’s do, best case, worst case, right? Yeah. So what do you think best case scenario, what do you see for the balanced black girl podcast as the thing you know, is established and then from then on?

Les:

Okay, I love that you said this, because I have this practice that I call best case scenario journaling. So usually my daily journaling, yes, is scripting out the best case scenario of how I want the day to go or whatever it is that I’m thinking about at that time, I will write out like the best case scenario in detail.

Nicole:

I love that y’all write that down. Because how often do we only catastrophize? And say, What is the worst thing that happened? How does that even serve us? Right? Tell me more about this, do you do this daily?

Les:
Most days. Yeah. In the morning for my journaling practice, I was having a hard time journaling. 

Nicole:
I just like same.

Les:
So I was having a hard time getting stuff in my head. Right. And so what was helpful was I just described things that are kind of on my mind, things that I was struggling with, what would happen in the best case scenario, how would it go and I started writing in vivid detail, and I found it was easier to fill pages when I thought about it that way, because we do often prepare for the worst.

Nicole:
Yes we do.

Les:

But it also helps to prepare for the best. It’s a 50/50 shot of going either way.

Nicole:

Tell the truth, y’all. Do you hear that? How often and this is also part of the problem of being both a woman and marginalized. We are hardwired, I think to always plan for the worst, partly because we’re always so responsible for others, right? So we’re trying to figure out where to stand in the gap to protect even just our babies, you know? Like before we leave the house we’re packing 15 snacks just because what if they get hungry? You know, like we’re living in the what if and that’s anxiety driven, that is worried driven. But this idea of even starting our day, or recalibrating our brands with this best case scenario, journaling, you know, really does remind us that just as easily as we worry about it going wrong. It could easily go very, very right. Right. So what would very right look like for you, you know, with balanced black girl podcast. And honestly, I want to hear more about like, outside of that too. What would that look like?

Les:

Yeah, I mean, I think best case scenario for me would be the podcast reaching the people that it’s meant to help. I think, I’m really grateful that I have an engaged community and that it has helped a lot of people and I think it could help more people. I want it to be bigger so that it can help more people and reach who it’s meant to help. And then I also like want to be rewarded for that work that I do as well.

Nicole:

Yeah, you want to be financial, I mean, there’s nothing wrong I’m and everyone who knows me knows this. I am really big on money being with people who are good, yeah. And deserve it and are going to do good things because I also know people who are not good have no problem making money. Especially when you know that money is a tool. Yeah, you know, when you know that it just allows you to have the… Listen, Beyonce can’t be sitting next to somebody and coach when she’s got to get on stage and perform right you’re not gonna be raspy when I pay all that money for my ticket says because somebody want to talk your ear off. You need a private jet so I can so you can be napped, well rested, well moisturized and get up on that stage. You know, so yeah, that cost you don’t I mean, so I fully understand and appreciate that. Yeah. What does it look like outside of the business and I’ve started asking this because I think that so many chats that people listen to on these podcasts are very like well, what are the three things you’ll do in your business to grow blah, blah, blah, but it’s like as you’re doing this because you know, we’re not 20 You know, we’re not young young ones anymore. I don’t care what you look like okay, I’m just saying right now, okay? You’re not sure to have me out here so low okay with my middle forehead wrinkle. You know, talking about like, you look 20, I just want to be very clear.

Les:
I got botox too. So it’s okay.

Nicole:
Oh, yes. You know, everyone black girls get Botox.

Les:
Yes.

Nicole:
Okay. And we do that because Black don’t crack but understand why wouldn’t I shave off an extra 10 years if I can? I’m trying to be out here making people reconsider everything so yes, I support but that said, best case scenario outside of business. You know, what does life look like? I know you say like, richly rewarded but is it you showing up on stages? Is it you hosting events? Is it you having a business that’s running on there’s no such thing as autopilot y’all ignore the internet but essentially autopilot where you’re, you know, traveling, you know, living in Bali? What does it look like? Do you have a cat?

Les:

I’ll be so real. I’m not a worker bee girl, okay.

Nicole:
Good for you!

Les:
There’s some people who like love to work. And I’m like, it’s aight. Yeah, I love freedom and flexibility and free time. And so I think for me, best case scenario is showing up in my gifts and having support to handle the rest so that I can have spaciousness outside of that, because I love to travel, I would love to have a beautiful, comfortable home. I would love to entertain, like, I would love a lot of fullness in life outside of work.

Nicole:

Oh, I’m just sitting in the vision with you right now. And I love it so much. And one of the things that’s such a blessing for me in this moment is you’re seeing it here first.

Les:
Yeah.

Nicole:
I cannot wait. And friends. I know y’all are listening right now saying Yes, me too. Me, too. How excited are we to be on the front end of this journey? Because when you come back, and it’s like, so girl, I know that you tried to act brand new right now. But I saw you on your yacht. And so you know, I’m just trying, I’m just trying to figure out first, thanks for being on the podcast again. But also what gives, you have my number? Why are you on that yacht by yourself? You know, that’s what it’s gonna be. Right? So I say three to five years, we’ll be back talking about that, you know, and you’ll be like, I know, I can’t believe I said that. It’s so good. So I’m excited about it.

Les:
I’m looking forward to it.

Nicole:
It’s gonna happen. It’s gonna listen, I received that for you. So okay, no, I think that’s wonderful. I think that’s very real. But I also think one of the learnings here that I am also embracing, and it took me a while to get there, I want fullness. Yes, I am entitled to and I desire a full life. And that includes rest and peace. And do you think this comes back to your many conversations around balance? Do you think that that’s helped inform where you are now?

Les:

It does. Yeah. Because I think there’s a lot of misconceptions about balance. I think what balance is marketed to, especially as women is give 100% in 27 different categories.

Nicole:
Whoo.

Les:
And so when people say balance doesn’t exist, yeah, that doesn’t exist, because that’s not possible. That’s not possible for any human. It’s not mathematically possible. Nobody can do that. And I think that as women, we are sold that so that we constantly feel like we need to be catching up and doing more and giving to everybody else. I think balance is understanding what your needs are and getting them met, whether that is needing to dial in with your self care, whether that’s needing to ask for help, whether that’s leaning into a season of hobbies and doing things purely because they give you joy, it’s being a well rounded person. And so that’s something that’s really really important to me.

Nicole:
Y’all. I hope you’re absorbing this because you’re a professional on balance, you know, as I mean, literally, you have interviewed and researched so many people, you could have your doctorate in balance, you know, and that’s the truth. You know, I think that as much as we can challenge this perception, like my big pillar around perceptions is like, Look, you don’t have to be perfect in order to be impactful. Like you can literally show up as a hot mess and still make a difference in this world and have a meaningful life. The number one question, I get girl is balance, how do you do it on a call? I don’t may not hear my message. I was eating cheese five minutes ago, you know, like while waiting for this because I was hungry. And that was breakfast, because I’m a mess today. You know what I mean? Like, this is so powerful and letting people know, let’s redefine that. We don’t even need it affirmed externally. Let’s redefine it for ourselves. Right? Well rounded, fullness. Oh, so good.

So you just joined, in case y’all don’t know, Les just joined the Dear Media network team, shout out to Dear Media. We are both here together. We’re representing Team Brown over here. And we’re very excited about it. And I’m just grateful to have you here hanging out and doing all the cool stuff. It’s great. I love Dear Media. It’s been really great being here.

Les:

I’m excited to be here. I’ve been doing the podcasts independently for the past five years, so.

Nicole:
I understand I started that way for two years. So you know, and, you know, and again, just y’all if you’re listening in terms of milestones, like this is what it looks like. I hope you’re hearing that none of this happened overnight. We said 2014, 2009, you know, getting to this point, but consistency and evolution within that. Yep. It’s part of how we’re here.

Les:
Yes.

Nicole:
So we’ve so we’ve known each other from well known each other like internet known each other from way back when how do we first meet each other? How did you first find me?

Les:

I think I found you through Chalene.

Nicole:
Oh, that makes sense, work out world!

Les:
I think she mentioned you and I started watching your periscopes back in the day.

Nicole:

Oh my wigs were not good then. I’ll just own it. Wigs have evolved as a concept right now. They’re like much better in general for the masses, but they were not doing what they needed to do. I look back on that sometimes and I’m like the content rock solid still. Absolutely. Man the hairline. I mean, I was like, I thought I had friends, y’all. I love y’all but y’all could have said something, you know.

Les:
But I think the 2010s, now that I look back on it, I’m like, what we’re doing with our hair, or the makeup thing, it was the blind leading the blind.

Nicole:
Blind leading the blind, nobody knew. We didn’t know, we didn’t know, I’d like to think I was in the upper echelon of bad wigs, though, which. I appreciate that. Well, thank you so much for still being here. And thinking kindly of me knowing what I was, I was living in experience. You see, that’s grace y’all. <laughs> Oh, my goodness, I love and adore you. And I’m so excited for what comes next. So let’s talk about what comes next. Now you’re at Dear Media. And this is where you know is hosting the Balanced Black Girl podcast, which means you are on the cusp of the biggest thing.

So y’all, if you’re not listening, do it now. You don’t I mean before so you’re the cool person who’s talking about like, I’ve been listening or I knew her back when, now’s the time, like be on it. Right. But we’ve got new episodes coming.

Les:
Yes.

Nicole:
Which is very exciting. Because you’ve been on summer hiatus?

Les:
Yes. I took a little break while I was kind of working on the transition to Dear Media.

Nicole:

Tell me more about that. Because I don’t take breaks. My producer is really amazing. He’s listening to this right now. And he’s awesome. He is like the most generous, talented, even keeled guy, shout out Josh. He’s really great. But he also doesn’t let me take breaks when I tell you, Okay, I’m like, Josh, I don’t want to do this anymore. And he’s like, your contract says, right? Well, he’s always really nice. He was like, look, you could do this, you could do that. But the truth is, I put that pressure on myself. So tell me about taking a summer hiatus because I need to learn how to work this into my life.

Les:

Definitely. Well, that was part of it was I knew once I signed that contract that every week yeah, for that year, you know, so I was like, let me take a break while I can.

Nicole:

You smarter than I. <laughs> I just signed.

Les:

And I also wanted to kind of rebrand the podcast and upgrade a little bit.

Nicole:
So it’s about that, what can we expect?

Les:
Yeah, so some new artwork, which is very exciting. Because the older artworks were just older versions of myself, previous versions. Sure. I was different. It was a little more fitness, see. And I’m leaning kind of out of talking about fitness and more of getting into the lifestyle. Less girl, more woman and I needed to kind of take a little bit of time to really center myself on what that look like and what that felt like and what I want the podcast to be.

Nicole:
Oh, I love that. Y’all to hear all this goodness, is Les not are people? Like oh my gosh, because I mean literally and she’s like the best version of us because I’m still using my old pictures because I was thinner than but look at you. You know what I mean? People are gonna I’m gonna be 65 and people were looking at photos of me at 25. I’m not rebranding anybody’s artwork, okay? Because I looked good in those photos. Okay, jawline was getting jawline, we will continue to see Nicole from 2014, you know, minus the wigs, photoshop. So Les thank you so much for coming on, for chatting, for sharing with us about your organic evolution, but also being so open and vulnerable about what’s to come and the fact that you’re still on that journey, but we get to join you for it.

Les:

Thank you so much for having me. And just for like, being a sounding board being like a big sister. I’m always a big sister. So I appreciate it.

Nicole:

We get it and you know what I mean? But it’s also unsolicited advice. Like, listen, I tell people, I’m like, Just tell me to mind my business. It doesn’t even hurt my feelings. You know, I just know, look, I’m the issue. I’m the problem. I know that you don’t really so you can give it to me. But no, I appreciate this. And I’m so excited to be on this journey with you. You have my full-on entire support. You know, whatever you need. I am here for you and mostly so that you can come back and I can be like, yes girl and we can all celebrate you because I hope you know it, me and all the internet aunties, my Internet Cousins, my internet sisters are all here and we are cheering you on.

Les:

Thank you so much. I receive it and appreciate it.

Nicole:
You deserve it, y’all. Please listen to the Balanced Black Girl podcast. She’s here at Dear Media as well. Follow us everywhere you go because she’s going to be doing incredible, huge things. And, of course, I am on tour right now. So I hope I get to see you. I will be in New York on October 9, then DC, Atlanta, Houston, Chicago and LA over the entire month of October on the Nothing is Missing book tour. So I hope I get to see you and it’s going to be incredible and y’all you’re just the greatest please step into all of your goodness, grant yourself some grace and get out there and just honor who you are.

Nicole:

Y’all I am, this is probably one of the most important, I literally am trying not to cry because I’m talking to you on publication day. And for those of you who don’t know what that is, Pub Day is the day that your book baby is born. And so if you’ve been keeping up with all the things, you know that I’ve written, my debut memoir, Nothing is Missing, a memoir of living boldly. And today is the day that it is out in the world, that it lands in your mailboxes and on your doorsteps. And for those of you who are audiobook readers, I am actually reading my own audiobook so you get to catch all my parents accents and all the funny little inflections that go along with, you know, having a book and all of that’s out in the world.

So what’s interesting is, you know, y’all know, I like to keep it transparent. So I’m talking to you now about a week before this day. And this is all meeting you in this moment. And what that means is one, I want to be totally clear about our relationship and how I need your help. Be really, really honest about it. Because I know oftentimes, we come here and it is two friends chatting and catching up and all that jazz. But I also want to be really clear about like the numbers and the behind the scenes and what it is to write a book and have a book and have it out in the world. But I also want to talk to you about what it’s like to put yourself out there like that. I’m not kidding, y’all. I’m getting so choked up. And I don’t know if it’s just the idea that we’re having this conversation on a day where I am literally right now as you’re listening to this, I am likely in because I’m going on tour starting on the eighth, I am likely in New York City, hopping a train headed to Baltimore to sign 300 books, then headed to DC to sign 300 books, and hold an event with the sweet, kind, Amazing Alex Elle. And you’re gonna see all that stuff on social.

So I’m not kidding, if you’re listening, this is one of the most real time full experiences that we can have together because you can see everything but also in listening to this, I’m going to tell you that what you see on social and this is very much like the book, what you see on social is only sort of one dimensional glimpse of the whole process. And part of our chats that we have here on the podcast and part of our you know, the conversations we have in social media in the DMs is because I really like to give full color to the black and white of social and I’m not kidding, that’s what this book is about. You know, I mean, you’ve seen me go through having the girls through a divorce. I’ve talked a lot about my divorce, post-divorce journey, my personal healing, being in the sadness, you know, here on our weekly chats. But now I’m talking about sort of, I guess, the current season, right? And whatever this next step, next transformation will be and before I jump into it, I just want to let you know that I’m so grateful to you.

So many of you have reached out and said to me right out of the gate, Nicole, we appreciate this journey. We know what you’re doing. We’ve been internet aunties from the beginning of time, you know, and we are so thankful that you are writing this book and putting out into the world. And I want to let you know how grateful I am to know that I don’t have to do this by myself. I also want to tell you something really, really, really transparently that is not discussed in the book world and that a lot of people don’t say because it’s not, I guess cool to say or popular to say or you know, whatever. But selling a book is hard.

So writing a book is incredibly difficult depending on what the subject matter is but asking people to help support your book venture is really tough. The average book, you know, is lucky if it’s almost 100 or 1000 copies. And in order to get the visibility of being in places like New York Times or Wall Street Journal or like major press or anything, you basically have to be someone who is ridiculously famous, know a lot of ridiculously famous people, be really rich, have had a really salacious career, right, like talk about something like a gross tell-all or something like big like that, you know?

And it’s really, really rare, really incredibly rare that you would be a black woman, a mom. It’s rare that people like us get that opportunity. And I’m thankful because today, I have that opportunity. It is right in front of me right now. And it’s always been our conversation here for me to show you that I can do it, so that you guys know you can do it too. And that we can do it without being bajillionaires. And we can do it without being messy and compromising our values. And we can do it without not being mom, you know, I literally today did an interview with a major media outlet. And then while I was taking my bathroom break, ordered groceries to be delivered to the house, you know, like, I mean, because then when I get home, I need to cook a couple things, you know, for the week, because that is my real life. And that is your real life.

And I don’t want you to ever think, it is so important to me that you never think that you can’t get to the highest of heights, right up with the greats, just because you decided to focus on being a mom, or just because you’re in a season where maybe you’re battling a sickness or an illness, or you’re starting over after divorce. We are still capable of getting anywhere that anyone else goes. And we just have to rely on each other. And I’m grateful because I haven’t had to do this alone. And I’m thankful to you. And it’s with that, that I also asked that, you know, today’s publication day, and so a lot of people don’t know that the books that are purchased on the week of publication are the ones that are counted for like bonus points, you know, when it comes time to calculate who makes those lists and who wrote the most impactful books that week, and I’m so close. You have to sell close to 20,000 books in order to make this list. And I already know right now, I’m not even kidding. I know y’all. I know right now, y’all are like, Nicole, you’re gonna do it. Nicole, God says, you know, like, I know how y’all are. So I’m thankful because I can feel that energy right now.

But I also know that you have to ask, and if you I mean, you can’t see the video of this because it’s a chat, but I’m like wringing my hands. It is nerve racking to have to ask and say, can you please grab a copy of the book, the hardcover counts for more points, if you buy two copies, one for you and one for a friend. That’s even better. If you have a book club or a, you know, church group or a, you know, a group of girlfriends, and you want to make this a Christmas gift or a holiday gift, that would be tremendous as well, because they literally count every single copy.

So on this publication day, if you can grab a copy of Nothing is Missing. Every single book purchase counts up until October 15. That is this coming Sunday at midnight. And I need to sell 20,000 books, and I am at the homestretch. But it’s not going to happen without your help. So four years, and you know, all this work done, and it comes down to me getting across the finish line by us holding hands and doing it together. So I appreciate you helping me get here. And I’m so excited for us to celebrate what we’re going to do collectively when they announce that I am a New York Times Bestselling author with the power of the internet aunties next week.

So I can’t wait for that chat, because it’s gonna be a good one. But before that, I want to tell you a little bit about this book, you know, because for those who are wondering, you know, but Nicole what’s it about? Nicole, you know, we’ve heard you say nothing is missing, we’ve heard you, you know, sign off by talking about nothing is missing. I also want you to know that the title itself means a lot to me. And that’s what I wanted to go in today, because I talked about how the phrase is powerful to me in the book, but I want to tell you about why this is so meaningful in this season.

So I decided to call this book “Nothing is Missing,” because coming out of divorce, one of the things that I was really struggling with was what I wanted to bring into my next life. And I’d realized that for so many years, I’d been seeking things that I felt I was supposed to get based on what I was told to get. And I want to say that again, for any of you who who may not really internalize what I mean.

As marginalized people, meaning women, people of color, growing up poor, you know, we’re often told what we’re expected to do. In society, in our home lives, you know, there’s a checklist we’re supposed to follow and in order to be good and dutiful and responsible, and you know, if you’re a Christian or a believer, you know, godly, you follow this list. And what’s difficult is if you don’t have all the resources that some people have, typically the people that make these lists, you find yourself falling short, you find yourself beating yourself up, you find yourself feeling guilty, and that eats at you, it affects your health, it affects how you show up in the workplace and at home and you find have yourself feeling like no matter what you will accomplish, something is always missing. Prime example, motherhood, you know, you are here doing your very best to take care of these beings that you love more than your own life. And just when you think you’ve managed to kind of figure out how to have a routine, you’re told that the way that you’re doing the routine is wrong, or that you’re feeding your kid off plastics, and that’s wrong. 

And you know, I’m not judging any of the evolution and knowledge that we get to benefit from to improve ourselves. But I’m acknowledging that we are literally always chasing something that is missing, if it’s not enough money, or if it’s not being too thin, or too big or too smart, or too quiet, or important enough business, or, you know, being at home and focus on the family, you know, there’s always something that is missing from our life.

And that was so much of my life for so many years, it was driven by, I grew up sleeping on a couch, and I talked about that, in this book, I grew up sleeping on a couch so what’s missing is I need a home, you know, I need a home with stairs in it, you know, and I’ve got these amazing girls who are so deserving of everything, and I got nothing for them, you know, I don’t have you know, a home and room and space. And I need to get those things because they’re missing that. And I want you to know, some of these things are very legitimate, you know, some of us are living without in a way that we shouldn’t. And that’s important to acknowledge the systemic things that are in place that make it so that we have to choose between, you know, a gallon of milk or a gallon of gas. Those are very real things that we’re encountering every single day.

But it’s when this awareness of things being missing translates into starting to question our own identity, our identity and our worth, that’s given to us inherently by God, and by the fact that we exist. That’s when it starts really causing harm and that’s where I found myself, when I decided to shift from writing a business book, to writing the truth, to writing the why behind the what. Business and TV, and even our chats here, this is what I do, but why I do it. That’s what’s in this book.

And during my recovery and healing process, you know, after divorce, I was not sure what I was good at anymore. I wasn’t sure if… I certainly didn’t think I was a good wife. I wasn’t sure if that was a job title I’d ever get to hold again, because I didn’t feel like I knew how to do marriage quite right. And I wasn’t sure if I was a good mom, because I was really struggling to take care of myself. I wasn’t healthy. I didn’t understand healthy habits, you know, and my body was showing it. And I wasn’t sure if I was a good business owner because you know, that’s not just quantified by how much money you make. I wasn’t loving my work. I didn’t enjoy managing people. I was stressed out and overwhelmed. And I felt like I was always chasing the next big launch. And that was so unbearably sad for me. And I felt so deeply alone, you know, so alone and trying to find the answers for these things. And, you know, the way that marketing works, right, as we scroll on social media, there’s always something telling us well, this is the answer. This is the answer. This is what you need to do try this workout, try this, you know, hack, try this software.

And in stepping back from it all because I had to because of what my health was doing. I didn’t even have time to consume what the solutions were. I just had to say to myself, if I couldn’t get a single other thing, if I could never fall in love again, If I had to run my business with what I had in front of me, if I don’t get healthy, and this is the type of mom I could be, what would I do with that?

What would I do if all I had to move forward was what I have now? If there isn’t chasing and seeking something else, if I could only work with what I have. And it was then that I really started thinking well I could still do this and maybe I could serve this way and you know, if I’m never going to fall in love and if I’m you know not going to have a relationship then boy you better love the heck out of yourself and once I started that road and I embrace the journey of saying that if all I have today is what I have, then I need to make the most of it. I need to maximize it. It was then that I realized how much I really had that nothing is missing.

There’s a story that I tell in this book of when I looked at my girls, and I said to them, you know, I’m looking to quit my job, my nine to five job. And if some of you were there on that day when I quit my job live on line in front of 10,000 people and jumped into entrepreneurship, you know, with a plan with a strategy, but you know, I did it. And, you know, I share in this book that prior to that, I talked to my girls, and I said to them, you know, I’m trying to do this big venture, and I’m scared, like I, you know, I was just very transparent. I said, I’m scared, and I think it’ll work. Everything’s looking really good. I’m helping people. I’m making money doing it. And my goal is to make our lives better than it’s ever been. But I just need to know that you’ll be okay if it doesn’t work out, you know that, you’ll trust that I’ll still take care of you and that I’m never ever leaving, and that I’ll do my very best. And no matter what, it’ll be okay.

But it just, we may not have, you know, the big fancy house, or we may not have the cool car, and my kids looked at me, and the only thing they said to me was, will you still be there?

And I didn’t realize as kids will be, you know, the most incredible teachers we ever will have, you know, that my kids understood something that I didn’t, you know that there was so much value in our togetherness, and there were so much value in seeing each other as we were with what we had. And that we both grown up, my kids, myself with so little, you know, that we already had so much because we had each other. And even if we wanted to pursue something new, even if we wanted to take on a new goal, or a new task, build a business, write a book, film, a TV show that we had eachother, and we had our hard work ethic within ourselves. And with that alone, nothing is missing.

And I know that some of these chats can feel very inspirational, or you know, kind of speech-y like, and I just want to keep it all the way real. “Nothing is missing.” That phrase is getting me through this season right now, this season of selling this book of putting it in people’s hands of showing up to press and media, the things that you’re going to see on social where I’m smiling and coming out there and doing my my darndest to sound eloquent and poised and knowledgeable. And I’m scared, you know, that’s the truth, I’m scared. And the thing I’m afraid of is not just sharing my story vulnerably and having to hear feedback about that, because that’s just how the world works. But I’m also scared because I’ve worked really hard to identify my worth in the fact that I wake up every morning.

And my worth doesn’t exist in this book, and how it does, and who likes it. And if it’s popular, or if I do become a New York Times best seller or if you know, my kids see me, you know, hitting the top of those lists. Now you better believe that I want to hit those lists, I want to hit those lists, because I know that in hitting those lists, you know, I’m answering the thing that I tell them every day, which is where you started does not dictate where you end up.

But the thing that I’ve worked so hard for over the past couple of years, you know, deprogramming myself from years of being told that I’m only useful in so much is how I serve others. And I’m only useful and I’m only beneficial and I only have worth in so much in how I provide and what I make and what I do. And if I’m not directly contributing to the happiness of another person, that I don’t really have the same value.

You know, I don’t want to get back there. Because it was so unhealthy for me and, and I hope that you friend, you know, as someone who is responsible for, you know, co workers and babies and partners and, you know, that lends so much of yourself to these things that you recognize that you’re worthy when you wake up, and that you recognize that your worth is not tied into, you know, what you do for other people and know that you can still tackle these big goals and you can still show up and make these lists of things, you know, for yourself, but I want you to know that a lot of these books, these memoirs, these self help things, these inspirational novels, they’re all telling you to like, you know, work harder, show up, you matter. But I don’t know how many people admit that they’re still working on it themselves. It almost feels like you have to be at the finish line to write the book.

And part of what’s I think special about this book is that we’re still on the journey together. And I’m just sharing what I know if I might be a few steps ahead of you. And I think for some of you, you’ll read parts of this, and you’ll say, Oh, I’m so glad that I learned already, you know, and for some of them, I think you’ll say, wow, you know, I’m really glad that I can see this coming and Nicole’s pointed it out. But what I do know is that a lot of it boils down to recognizing that when we really absorb and identify that we are worthy when we wake up, and that nothing in between the moment that we open our eyes and close our eyes changes our worth, it doesn’t get better, because you, you know, got a promotion. And it doesn’t get worse, because you missed carpal pickup, you’re still worthy. And once you start realizing that it transforms how you show up with the world.

So you know, in this season, that’s the thing I’m clinging to, and it’s a thing I want to share with you, as you’re watching this journey. You know, on one end, you’re going to see me doing pretty cool things. My mind is still reeling about some of the interviews and chats and press moments and groups that I get to talk to you and some of you I’ve already met, you know, at events in New York, DC, LA, Houston, Chicago, you know, but when I tell you all those things mean everything, but they also mean nothing about who I am.

And I really want you to understand and hear me when I say that meeting you and being near you, and having the opportunity to do these big things, is such a blessing and it’s such a gift. But I’m worthy when I wake up, and so are you. And so, friend before I head out of here and ask you to you know, get on Amazon, get on Barnes and Noble, head to your local bookstore, you know, and grab a copy of this book, I want to leave you with an excerpt, a small portion of it from you know, my favorite chapter. The chapter is called, “You are Worthy When you Wake Up.” And I haven’t read any of this book to you so far, but I want to do it here today.

And I also hope that at the end of this, you recognize that, you know, this isn’t just a good story. You know, this isn’t just your friend telling you a little bit more than you knew before. This is your Fresh Start Manual, you know, this is an opportunity to recognize that you are really good at starting over, we all have to be and that no matter what happens along the way, that our worth isn’t going to change as long as we can keep getting up and doing it every single day.

So this is from my book, Nothing is Missing by Nicole Walters. And it’s out today, October 10 2023. It’s going to be a New York Times Bestseller. And I’m grateful because you’re going to be part of that journey. So here is an excerpt from my favorite chapter you are worthy when you wake up.

A lot of people, I used to be one of them, think self worth is defined by what you get when you achieve a certain level of life. You might think you are worthy if you have the right job, or the right home, you might not even allow yourself to reach for something because you feel your self worth hasn’t been validated by some external force. But that’s false. Your worth isn’t defined by a destination. It’s also not defined by what you do between lifting your head up off the pillow in the morning and laying it down at night. Here’s the twist, your worth doesn’t increase or decrease. Some people think your worth can only increase if you hit a goal. But it doesn’t. It also doesn’t decrease. You are just worthy. No matter what. You inherently have value. You are worthy when you wake up.

Yet, we tell ourselves we’re not worthy all the time. In a million different ways. If you wake up saying that in order to display your worth to yourself, you must eat well, exercise, show love to your children and then you decide to do drugs, not honor your commitments and neglect your children. Then understand the reason why you’re questioning your worth in that moment, is simply because you aren’t affirming what you’re saying your worth with actions that support it.

Once you understand that you are worthy, affirm that with action. You can keep saying your affirmations in the mirror all day, but they don’t mean anything if you don’t follow them with an action that proves to your whole body, your whole self, that what you are affirming is true.

Friend, this book is an affirmation to my spirit that nothing is missing. And it’s my hope that it calls you and supports you and guides you in knowing that the same thing is true about you.

Nothing is missing.

Nicole:

Hey, friends, I am beyond excited today. I swear I say that every episode but today’s really exciting because one, we’re not having this chat solo. I have brought in someone who I believe is going to give you transformative information. As you know, I have been through it, right? Between becoming a mom of three girls, building a business, going through a divorce, if there’s one thing that you’ve heard me say in my Fresh Start Manual in talking about pivots, it’s that there is so much value in understanding communication, building the right team and community around you and making sure that people in your world are supportive and collaborative.

If you have already pre ordered by book, Nothing is Missing, which is available now on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, and will be on shelves everywhere, October 10, can’t even believe it. You know that I’ve dealt with a million different transitions. And I’ve really been diving deep into what it looks like to have the right people around me, and how to leverage them and how to build an ongoing community. And I hear from so many of you that, you know, in parenting and motherhood and being a business owner, you can feel so alone. And that is why I tapped my good friend, Dr. Tamara Hamai, who is just revolutionary in her concepts and the fact that she’s put them into practice. Now you know how I feel about bringing people in front of you who are talking the talk, but have never walked the walk. And what’s brilliant is when it comes to you know, the boring stuff, the data and the analytics and numbers, she’s done it.

But when it comes to the get your hands dirty, put it into practice, can my concepts around building and alliances actually work? She’s done that too. So Tamara, thank you so much for being here.

Tamara:

Thanks for having me. I’m excited.

Nicole:
You’re excited? I’m excited. Because, you know, I’m always I don’t always have people here for chats, right. And the reason I don’t is because you know, one, I’m really particular about who I bring around my friends, you know, and two, you know, just in this season of my life, you know, leading up to what we’re talking about here, I care a lot about who was speaking into me.

And when we met and I heard about sort of where you started, where you worked, how you started formulating these ideas around the way people interact, and how that can help them reach their goals and what they need around them. I was like, oh, this is valuable. And I cannot believe people aren’t looking at it this way. So I know that sounds like a super teaser, y’all. First tell us a little bit about yourself, what do you do now? Who do you work with, and then we’ll go into how you got there.

Tamara:

Right now I run a company called Hamai Consulting, and we work with organizations to help them make a more sustainable impact in the world. Especially if they’re serving children and families. My background is in child development. And so that’s kind of my passion and direction. But really, we work with organizations that do everything from fiscal governance, to health, to lots of different things,

Nicole:

All the things and when I tell you this work that you do, I have a lot of friends who are who are listening that are educators that are moms, I mean, it is always at our heart whenever we know someone has committed themselves to the good work, right. But on top of that, everyone listening understands how difficult that work is. And right now I’m literally telling you, whether they are on their couch, in their car, in their kitchen, handling the babies, they are nodding their heads like listen, Nicole, okay, these people drive me crazy. And you’re I mean, you’ll be the first to say it you guys can’t see. But Dr. Tamaras over here literally nodding her head like girl. Like it’s so real, you know. And one of the biggest things they run into just transparently because you’ve been doing this a long time is the we’ve always done this this way. And we don’t want to change. And we already know you know how to do it just this obstinance with doing things that gets in the way of helping the kids.

So I want to ask you, did you run into that early on? Because you didn’t start off running your own business, you did this for a reason. So take us through that transition.

Tamara:

Yeah, I guess my my birth story also call in. I was working for LA county government. And I had landed my dream job. It was a community action researcher, which meant that I was working with community organizing groups throughout LA County to help them use research as a tool to create change in their communities.

Nicole:

So like not just making it up, but let’s take data that’s actually going to help the kids.

Tamara:

Yes, take the data to move the exit off the freeway like to make some others no asthma at the schools.

Nicole:
It’s just like really simple. Like the science is supporting the decision. It’s not just whatever the guy who got the job because his dad said, wants to spend the budget that way. Exactly. We love you. And we love that role.

Tamara:

So I was driving around the whole county, helping out these different community organizing groups. And one day, my boss called me into the office. And I mean, I did not work a few hours, I worked a lot in this role. So I was, you know, already pulling like 70-80 hour weeks, and my boss calls me in my office and says, I need you to drop everything you’re working on and work on this scorecard. It literally was just a report full of numbers about children.

Nicole:
So just let me stand in this minute moment with you for a minute because I think that anyone who’s ever worked in corporate or frankly, honestly, even if you’re a mom, you’re living your life, everything’s fine. The kids come home and say, I have a project and it’s due tomorrow. Now it’s one thing if it is relevant, makes sense, sensible work, we can understand or unexpected.

But in this situation, you have a full docket of work. And your boss came in and said, I don’t care. Do this instead.

Tamara:

Yeah. And to create something that was just going to be, it was actually going to be printed at that time. So a piece of paper that sat on someone’s bookshelf, not.

Nicole:
So there’s no purpose behind it, there was no, how did that make you feel? Because I think we’ve all been in that place. And it’d be really validating to hear how did that make you feel?

Tamara:

I mean, angry was the first thing.

Nicole:
Right, right. Right, right.

Tamara:

Because there was important work happening in the communities that I was going to not be able to work on. And when I said, Okay, how long are we talking here? This is a four to six week project, said, Okay, well, let me call, the organizers I’m working with, these are all relationships that I was using day to day for them do the work, and let them know that I’m just going to be having to step away for this period of time for this specific project. And make sure there isn’t anything they need from me before I step away. And my boss said, No, you cannot contact them.

Nicole:

So essentially, you are told to ghost your entire team, all your relationships, everyone you’d worked with before, just to pivot on a whim for something that let’s just be fair, likely wasn’t even as helpful as the work that you were doing.

Tamara:

Exactly. I mean, it’s hilarious to me in this moment that you get it instantly, right?

Nicole:
And I’m like, I don’t even do your job. And I know that ghosting is bad. Okay, like that is like the basic. So I think we all can relate to this right being pulled in a different direction for something that does not feel like it pertains to where we need to be, or is what we want to do. So what’s interesting is, and I’m hoping all of you are hearing that we all have these pivotal moments in our life, where in the moment, they might just make us angry, or in the moment, we’re kinda like, why is this happening? But they can be the turning point for everything. I had a moment like this before my divorce. I had a moment like this before I quit my job. I had a moment like this before I got my girls, you know, and my book talks about these moments. But I want to hear about what happened after this for you. Because you’re enraged. Tell me you flipped a table, through the scorecard in his face, and you marched out of there? Like I want to hear some drama. You’re classy sort, so… <laughs>

Tamara:

it wasn’t quite that dramatic. But I did break into tears. Oh, yeah. And this was only my second time ever crying at work.

Nicole:

People y’all don’t know. But Dr. Tamra is not like this. Like she’s a very, like put together like professional like, because you get a lot of mess thrown at you and your current work. I mean, literally, you’re a mess cleaner upper. That’s like what happens, they bring you in saying our organization is a disaster and we don’t work together. And we have a goal and you fix it. So the idea that someone pushed you to tears in the workplace which raise hand relate, relate, relate. It says a lot. So what did you do?

Tamara:

I quit. Actually think it was the next morning I came in before I knew the HR director came in early. And so I got in before everyone else and I quit to the HR director on the spot. And it really was a realization for me that, so while I had dedicated what my career up to that point, to what I thought were these organizations that were dedicated to children’s wellbeing dedicated to social welfare, that really, as people who choose social good, we’re lost. We don’t actually know or aren’t actually doing the things that are going to create the impact we seek in the world.

Nicole:
And there’s because we’re spending our time with bureaucracy, paperwork, power play, and it’s getting away from actually getting the work done. And so for you, this pivotal moment wasn’t just that I think this is a great call out that you’re making. It wasn’t just because they weren’t being nice and disrespectful to you, that was a byproduct of the bigger problem, which is if I continue to work here, I’m not doing the good that matters.

Tamara:

Exactly. That is not the way that we should be operating in the world. I knew it was against just my moral fiber. We got into this kind of work and I think a lot of people have an intent to have good in the world. And yeah, create a good impact in the world. But we’re not actually then living that out. Or we say that we are, I mean, a lot of these nonprofits, philanthropists, social entrepreneurs, right, are doing a lot of action. But are they truly yielding the change and impact are they actually showing up and serving in the way that they should be to have a sustainable impact over time?

Nicole:

Oh, this is so good. And it ties into where you are now. So you know, in this massive pivot moment, you created what needed to be a fresh start for yourself, because realistically, still got to earn income still have to you know, but you were kind of it was push or shove. It was I cannot continue to do this, because it is going against my core, girl, I relate, I talk about it in the book, I quit my job when I realized, I work in health care, and I’m not actually helping anyone be healthy, I gotta go, you know, so. So I get that. And it’s interesting, because I also think, you know, for the models listening for those of you are nurses, educators, social workers, people do not understand that when you’re in these types of massively service-driven roles. You didn’t choose them from the beginning to be rich. You chose them from the beginning to help and deserve.

So a lot of people are feeling that pull in that tug and I like that you’ve just distinguished for us that, you know, it’s not just because our boss was mean to us that day, if we’re feeling that tug, we may need to change. So let’s talk about change. Right, let’s talk about what that means. You took a lot of what you learned from this experience, when you started forming your consulting firm, which now has been around for gosh, how long have you been in this? 15 years?

Tamara:

Yeah, since three days after that quit.

Nicole:
Wow, wow.

Tamara:
So that was in 2008.

Nicole:

Oh, my gosh, okay, so. So you opened up, and you knew that you had to do something. But you also knew you didn’t really know what it looks so different now than it did then. So let’s talk about some of the ideas. Because where this is going, obviously, is I apply these ideas that my family, my business, or they really have helped me have the right people around me. So the core of your business that you do now and what you do when you’re supporting organizations, is really helping them understand each other, at least that’s how it seems to me, but you tell me more about it in your words.

Tamara:

Well, the first thing we do is help to bring together an alliance of people within their organization, or including people outside of the organization, to form a decision making body, people to actually think and generate together so that they can tackle together rather than alone, this concept or this challenge of becoming a more impactful organization.

Nicole:

So this is a big deal. Because you see this in business, I think that, you know, everyone does this, like with their girl squads, you know, it’s in business, it might be a mastermind in your group of girlfriends, it is that little sort of my girl squad that we travel with, I have those things, you know, in your family, it might be that I always go to this certain auntie and this grandmother. So you’re saying that you replicate what may occur, I guess naturally in the workplace.

Now, what are the components of what would be an alliance if we need to build one for ourselves? What are the core things?

Tamara:

So one of the things that actually we do, sort of inherently in our normal lives that we challenge to a certain degree, is normally we seek out people we’re comfortable with for support.

Nicole:

Oh, really? You mean we try to go to safe spaces when people are just gonna nod and say yes, you look pretty and oh, my gosh, you look thin today.

Tamara:
Exactly.

Nicole:

We don’t look for people who challenge us, by nature.

Tamara:
We also don’t know a lot of people who are different than us.

Nicole:

That’s actually a really great call out I, you know, transparently a lot of times when I look at people’s photos on social, I’m like, wow, you know, even though I’m your friend or I know that you may have like black friends or friends that are differently abled, or you even live in a neighborhood that is a very diverse neighborhood, I noticed that your wedding, everyone looked like you, you know, and a lot of times people don’t realize that. So that is such a good call out. Part of why we need to build this alliance, you know, in our lives in our businesses is because we need a diverse perspective.

Tamara:

In organizations usually decisions are made by people in positions of power, which means that only managers or only leaders are in these decision-making conversations. Where as we create alliances that have people in different roles with different power levels, different lived experiences, so we really encourage actually participants in services to be part of alliances, even though they don’t work for the organization, or we pay them for their time. Sure, but having a wide range of diverse experiences, diverse perspectives, that’s one of the critical pieces to actually building alliances.

Nicole:

It’s so good. So, I mean, because I’ve scary, I’m not gonna lie to you like the idea that I’m writing a book or I’m doing anything that is personal to me, I mean, it’s funny, because I’m about to say the thing that basically proves you right, which is, I don’t necessarily want to hear that it’s not great. I don’t want to necessarily hear like, I love the feedback for growth. But you know, it’s nerve racking to kind of put your thing in front of people and hear back. So you’re saying that by nature, people don’t.

Tamara:

They don’t. You don’t want just a naysayer, though, right? Like, the devil needs no advocate.

Nicole:
Yes, ain’t that the truth.

Tamara:

So when we are talking about challenge, it’s important that you’re bringing an alliance together, that is wanting to actually be supportive, even though they will challenge you. So it is safety and challenge at the same time. Otherwise, you’re going to be defensive, or you’re going to be shut down.

Nicole:

This is actually really valuable. Because, you know, obviously, I’m a mom of three. And we’ve been through a lot of transitions. And you know, my kids have a new step, you know, parent, and being in our home, one of the things that’s really big that we do is we make decisions kind of collectively. And that’s something that people always called out and said, this is unusual, that you know, because people ask me like, oh, well, what sports are is your is your daughter doing this year? And I’ll say, Oh, well, I don’t know. I have to ask her.

And they’re like, Oh, you’re not just picking like tennis, all the kids out here do tennis. Oh, you’re not just doing soccer. All the kids do soccer? And I’m like, what if she doesn’t want to? I have to ask her, you know, or, for instance, I have a book tour coming up, you know, and I’d love for her to come with me, you know, and as her mom, I definitely have the like, you mentioned power to say you are coming with me, but what if she doesn’t want to what if she wants to be home? What if she, you know, like, there, I realized there are a lot of decisions that we’re making but it’s easy for me because she’s part of those decisions.

You’re saying that and let me just kind of I’m trying to have a hypothetical, like in a family structure, applying your alliance model. I may ask, say like an older sibling of hers. What are your thoughts on her coming with me on this tour based on your experiences? Because there may be something you see that I don’t see.

Tamara:

Yeah, so you could ask. So the parent first sure my if there’s another caretaker or other adults in the household, talk to them. Other people who know that child, or are invested in the success of that child or the child themself, the older and even potentially younger sibling, depending on how young, if they can speak.

Nicole:
Yeah sure.

Tamara: 

Teachers, other experts. Also, there are times specifically when the decision requires some expertise.

Nicole:

Right, like picking a private school or therapy sessions or trying to rectify something that could be a problem like anxiety or okay.

Tamara:

So asking a therapist or asking a school counselor or something where you can get some sort of expert, objective information from an expert, but then filter it through values, experience, those lenses with these other people.

Nicole:
So using the same example, what are some of the potential outcomes? If I were to engage in this probably because it never would have occurred to me if I’m asking something of my middle daughter, you know, to say about my little one, how do you feel about the fact that Chrissy is staying in Atlanta, living at college? To me, it’s like, this is what’s happening, you know, like, and I say, this kind of, you know, putting myself out here as a mama, you know, this is what’s happening. My little ones 11, she’s fine. She’s with me, you know, but she may have thoughts, she might say, you know, what, I don’t like my sister being so far away.

And then I guess now I have perspective on what could have been a problem, I guess, like, tell me about what you’re finding when people start applying the Alliance method to you know, and they’re building alliances around their decision making.

Tamara:

So first we set what decision we’re trying to make.

Nicole:
Right? So should Chrissy stay in college? Are we okay with that? Should we move to California? Let’s say that’s the question.

Tamara:

Yes. So if that’s the decision you all want to make. Then you’ve formed this alliance. So you identify the people who are supportive of that goal, have important contributions to that goal, have different perspectives on that goal.

Nicole:
I hope y’all are writing this down. This is like, top tier stuff, like I really hope you read that and you’ll you’ll give us access your show notes, links, all that stuff, so that you can use and apply this in your business like team building is one of the hardest things to do. This is gold, so keep going. So anyone who’s supportive, we kind of get those people online and we’re clear about what the goal is.

Tamara:

Then we want to look at the context. So look at any data or research that might be relevant. So with going away to college research that might be relevant might be about I’m sure that there’s something about parents and separation from your children at that age.

Nicole:

Yeah, support systems, you know, picking her major, but even like logistics, right? Like, how much will it cost? Or, you know, does she have a boyfriend, or network there? What does that look like?

Tamara:

And there’s definitely research about the impact that transitions have on children. And those sorts of sets, you look at what research is there, what are the things that are important to pay attention to the things that we actually need to consider.

Nicole:

So that’s good, so it’s not going from our I mean, then it kind of takes it away from our gut, because as a mama, I’m like, tou go stay up underneath me, you don’t need to go anywhere. My data says you my baby stay in my house. But that may not be the best way to go I’m hearing. So if I look at research, it can give me sort of an outside perspective that might be better suited to sort of informing our decision. Ah, I’m using Alliance language. Okay, so great. Okay, so perfect. Then once we’ve collected that information, now what?

Tamara:

You review that information with the other people in your alliance.

Nicole:
So not by myself, so we’re all using the same info, okay.

Tamara:

And then I like to call it dreaming, where each person actually dreams of what the best possible future looks like.

Nicole:
So we dropped putting parameters around it, because it’s streaming. It’s like, what does this look like? So I’d be able to say like, for instance, my you know, Chrissy, because she’s 21, might say, Yeah, I think I want to say in Georgia, and the perfect scenarios we have in my own place, and maybe buying a house or whatever. And I can say, look, perfect situation would be that you lived in California, and that you were down the street and you bought a house here. And are we saying this, like you said safely, right, knowing that none of these things has to happen. But we’re just putting it out there.

Tamara:

Yeah. So we start with the unbridled dreams, okay. And I actually encourage people to tap into the creative modes. So whatever is their most comfortable creative expression. So whether it’s drawing or Lego or writing.

Nicole:
Oh, that’s brilliant.

Tamara:
So that it just comes out a little more deeply. Okay, and think about what does it taste like? What does it smell like? What do I say? What do I hear?

Nicole:
So having a little one, maybe draw a picture of what does the family look like, if Chris he’s at college or something like that? That’s really powerful. Because I think a lot of times when we hear about, I’m just being really transparent. When I hear about systems and processes that are fancy from doctors, I’m like, this is gonna be work yesterday, me and like, and I want to do these things. I feel like a good mom if I do these things, but I also want to make sure that they’re actually doable, particularly with the littles, you know, so this, that’s really, really helpful.

Tamara:

Yes, and then each person shares their expression, their dream with the rest of the people. So whether it’s a little mini presentation, you can have as a practice, or just a casual, like holding up whatever has been created and talking through what it’s showing. That’s how you get at, what does that blue squiggle mean?

Nicole:

So you want to foster conversation? Exactly. It’s not a sale, per se. It’s just more ah, like you said, a share. I love that. And then I guess I want to know, and I’m sure everyone’s thinking this, and this is hard to get to but how do you actually make the call? Like, it sounds like all of this sounds good and beautiful. But how do we make the decision?

Tamara:

So you start by looking at what’s in common across all your dreams, and choosing together what you’re actually going to implement. So how are you going to make it real?

Nicole:
That’s so good.

Tamara:

So if you haven’t a set of action steps that you have created to create just the pieces of your dreams that you have prioritized together. Then you have next steps and that guides whatever that decision is for that time. But no decision is final.

Nicole:

Yeah, no, that’s so good. It’s also really powerful to realize that, especially when you have a family that might have a tough time making decisions, you know, or that it’s a struggle. If we start from a place of looking for similarities, you’re not feeling like your ideas being put down, or you’re not feeling like you’re not being heard, because we’re starting from a place of pulling from, well, it sounds like I mean, heck, even for dinner, you know, it sounds like we all want to eat tonight, which is great. And it sounds like none of us wants Chinese food. Wonderful, you know, like, and it sounds like everyone’s open to, I mean, you said pasta, you said macaroni you said pizza, maybe Italian is the move. You know, like I really liked this idea that if we give everyone the floor to present their ideas, and we’re all invested in the outcome and we find similarities, then we like each other during this process. This is how you’re getting boardrooms to get along.

Tamara:

Yes. Sometimes you share things that you know are dreams, but you also know it’s not important to make real. So you can voice it and then let it go and be okay with whatever the priority ends up being.

Nicole:

And you still learn about each other. You know, I know I love to hear from my kids, like, if I’m hearing Oh yeah, well, one day I would love. So for instance, if Chrissy said, Yeah, I want to say in Atlanta, but she voices as a dream, but I would love to live in California, if I knew it was cost efficient or whatever, that’s something I can still hold and say, Wow, this could be a possibility to revisit later. So it is good to encourage them to dream big.

Tamara:

Yes. And the discussion oftentimes uncovers the why you actually think deeper. So when you talk about your dream, usually what comes up is not that you actually want her to live in California with you, right? It’s actually that type of emotional connection, you want to have.

Nicole:
100%.

Tamara:
Types of interactions and so then when you’re discussing as a group, you’re able to generate ways of generating that same type of connection in a different way.

Nicole:
That’s brilliant. So I will be totally transparent here and use myself as an example. When this was long before she had a boyfriend, because lord knows that made it easier for her to leave me. But before she had a boyfriend, when she said to me, I’m really nervous about, you know, being at school and being away from you. And I asked her why, you know, you’ll be fine, you know, you’ll live fine by yourself, you know, all of this. She said, Why don’t want us to not be as close as we are. And it never occurred to me, that that was even something, because we hang like, that is my girl, like, I love her so much. And we like each other too.

And so I was like, that’s not going to be an issue. You know, like, we can still have hangout time, we can still take solo trips, we’re going to hang out, we’ll just look different from the way it did before because you’re getting older. And I think that it was so difficult, but I think that that confirmation really helped you know, her and so that’s really valuable is that knowing that maybe there’s other stuff to uncover. I mean, you know, as obviously, you know, you’re a doctor and child development, there may be things that need uncovered. That’s so good.

Tamara:

Yeah, it’s usually the things that are unsaid that cause issues, especially when it comes to decisions, after the decision is made. So if you can bring to surface things that are going to be potential challenges that are going to be hard about decisions after they’re made, if people have already had a voice to start to bring those up, then it’s much more likely that you’re going to have plans to talk about and deal with those issues later.

Nicole:

Oh, brilliant.

Tamara:

So after you make the decision, really, the final step is to set the time of when you’re going to review whether that was, like how the decision is going.

Nicole:
Oh, that’s so good. That’s so good. That’s so good. When I tell you how often people think you make the decision, you’re done. I mean, you’ve got to run into that all the time all the time. And and reviewing is actually the final part of the process. And can you tell us more about why like, what am I looking for? What is the value of reviewing?

Tamara:

So if you know what success looks like, then you can look later to see if it was successful. But if you don’t think about what success of a decision looks like beforehand, then even if you did review later, you wouldn’t even know what you’re looking for.

Nicole:
That’s so good.

Tamara:

And if you make a decision, there’s going to be consequences. And if you have a time and you have the expectation that you’re going to get back together with your alliance, review where things are…

Nicole:
Oh wait a second, so you’re saying put this on the calendar!

Tamara:

Yes.

Nicole:
So so guilty, guilty, guilty. So you’re saying that, like I should end it like as part of the decision making process, while we’re still deciding, say, Okay, no matter what we’ve decided on this, we’ll come back in 90 days. So even though we’re doing we can all do this for at least a little amount of time knowing that we’re going to come back and talk about how it’s going and how it feels.

Tamara:
Yes.

Nicole:
That is like, I’m not kidding. That may be, I may even call this episode, the one mom tool, okay, that you are not doing that will transform your life because there’s something to be said for telling your kids. The decision is temporary. So we do an after school program for our little one. And she historically has not loved after school programs, but based on time, it’s good. I mean, these kids get out of school at like two o’clock. Mom is still working, you know what I mean? It’s the middle of the day. So you know, we found a program she likes well enough, but she still prefer to be home. And so I told her, You know what, you’re getting older. Let’s do this, at least until December. And in December, we will review this you know, but let’s not argue between now and December, because we decided this is what’s happening. And then in December, we’ll talk about how it’s going and maybe we’ll change it. It never occurred to me. I could do this anywhere. Like, we’re gonna do bedtime, but let’s do it till 7:30. And if you can do that consistently, then we’ll bump it to 7:45, listen. Dr. Tamara, you changed my life right now. Like I’m not kidding. Every mom right now is like wait a minute, hold on clutch, this is fire.

So last part of the decision making process is to review the decision and put time on the calendar for when you’re going to do it in advance.

Tamara:

Yes. Take a genuine look. In organizations we say about quarterly sometimes if things are really moving fast monthly, but most organizations, this quarterly is enough, to look at what’s happened since what’s going well, what’s not going as planned what’s emerged that we weren’t expecting so that you can either totally pivot, or you can shift course. And it’s about refining that decision and how it’s being implemented.

Nicole:

And getting ahead of the problems. I mean, like, honestly, if I’m doing that every 90 days, I noticed you didn’t say six months, you didn’t say a year. You know, I’m not letting it go so far. So I have a huge problem. This is brilliant. So I know there’s so many nuances. I know, there’s so many pieces here. I am intrigued. I cannot wait for all your stuff. Where can I learn more about building my own alliance, using these alliances strategies in my business and my family? I mean, heck, I see how I can use this with my man. This is good stuff. Where can we learn more?

Tamara:

How you could start by going to FormanAlliance.com.

Nicole:

Okay, and what will I find there? I find like all the stuff we talked about here, but I needed on a pronoun, because I you know, every family’s got decisions every day. And they can start using this to turn their family into an alliance and tap their resources around them. In addition to in our businesses, like, all that stuff, is there at formanalliance.com.

Tamara:

Yep, you’ll be able to download a guide that shows you who to have and who not to have in your alliance.

Nicole:

Ain’t that the truth? That’s also a thing. So y’all, I will have that in the show notes. Dr. Tamara Hamai, I thank you so much for being here for sharing this brilliant concept for giving me some real aha moments. And again, all your details will be in the show notes. We’re all going to follow you, keep up and build alliances of our own. Thank you so much.

Tamara:

Thank you.

Nicole:

Hey friends. I am so beyond excited to be here with you today. Now if you have already watched the beginning of this chat over on Instagram, if you haven’t, head over to at Nicole Walters. That’s what I am all around the internet. But if you head over to Instagram you will see that I started doing this chat live over there. So this is a very special conversation. Now I know you’re used to me coming to you in your car or while you are making dinner for the kiddos, you name it, we spend a little bit of this time together.

But this particular chat, I let you guys pick the topic, and I also recorded it live for you. So you could see how it goes. Because we typically don’t always do it like this. So here we are having the potential for a face-to-face if you want to see this one head over there. But of course, I’m so excited to chat with you today.

Now, in today’s chat, as picked and decided by y’all we are going to talk about a hot button issue. Whether you are an entrepreneur or a mother. Whether you are balancing your corporate career, or if you’re just a stay at home who has… I should remove the word just. If you are a stay at home master mama, you are wondering about balance. It is easily the thing that people ask me the most. Now, if you are coming to this chat for the first time, or you are recommended or we are meeting for the first time, you may be wondering, why would people ask you, Nicole about balance? You know, what is that all about? Well, I want you to know that if you’ve followed me for the past couple of years, you know that I’ve got a lot going on. And when I say a lot going on, I don’t just mean my issues, right? I got issues, okay? I’ve got a lot going on in my life, right? God is still working on me.

But when people say you have a lot going on, they mean that I am juggling a lot of career-driven balls, right? So I’ve got TV show deals that I’m working on, a book deal. And a book that’s actually out right now. It’s called Nothing is Missing. It is on shelves everywhere, you’re gonna hear little ads tucked in here. And they’re all about it. But it’s on shelves, and it’s going to be available October 10. So you can grab a copy anywhere books are sold, but I have a book deal. I do private coaching and masterminds.

Just today alone, I did podcast interviews and promotion and press. I did a live keynote, I interviewed for another episode, this incredible woman that I cannot wait for you to meet. And when I tell you, I do have a lot going on. I also have three kiddos. I’ve got an 11 year old who I worry won’t make it to 12 because she is driving me crazy with the preteen-ness. I also have a 21 year old which is a category in and of itself. And a 24 year old who I mean, plot twist spoiler alert, they never leave. So you can understand that, more than anyone, I definitely have stuff going on just like you.

Now, what does that mean? It means that I have to be very aware of where I’m going to be with my time. And that’s the first thing that I wanted to share now. I think that when it comes to balance we hear and we see people on social media and they seem to have it all together. Am I right? We get so frustrated when we are watching moms that seem to know how to serve their kids pancakes, and also you know, decorate their whole house and they’re also making millions of dollars while they’re doing it. And then they have these incredible marriages and we’re just like my god like, woman how are you doing all this? And you have abs?! Y’all I have one ab and I’ve had one abe easily since 2007. I don’t even know where the other five are located, right? And then these women are out here doing it all and with greatness now applause to them but the truth is truth bomb. They’re not. These women have glam teams. These women have and I say this as someone you know I live in LA. Okay, there is a behind the scenes glam squad. 

When I tell you there are women who go into birthing centers. And when they go into those birthing centers, they bring their glam squad. They deliver the baby, they hand the baby off, they get glammed up, they bring the baby back and they host the photoshoot. Truth, truth moment. So I’m just letting you know right now, don’t believe the hype.

The only reason you may feel out of balance is because the awareness around true balance is not real online. Sit in that for a second sister. You’re feeling like you’re the only person who’s living in chaos, when in reality, no one’s talking about their chaos except for me. Y’all know that I’m sitting in the backseat of the Target, eating a copious and an inappropriate amount of cheese while watching old episodes of friends. That’s who I am. That’s who I’ve been. Right?

So between the two of us we’re here thinking we’re going crazy but the truth is, so is everybody. Everyone is a hot mess in the morning, hashtag did not wake up like this. So what I want to tell you is awareness is a mess. But what I want to tell you about having balance in your own life is that it’s possible to have imperfect balance. So if the goal that you’re defining for yourself is, I will always spend an equal amount of time in each area, and all areas will be perfectly fruitful. That is not a reasonable goal. It just isn’t possible. And no one is doing that.

Let me be the friend who leans in and tells you this, if your goal is to be in all areas of your life, absolutely perfectly, flawlessly, and performing equally. And all those areas are incredibly fruitful, isa lie, sister! Okay? Breathe easy exhale, and no, you haven’t even failed and you aren’t failing. Because it’s not a thing. It’s not a thing.

And I talk about this a lot in my book, that you know, all the things you’ve seen from the outside me accomplishing these goals. So many of you first met me when I quit my job live online in front of 10,000 people, and, you know, left corporate America and branched into my own business. And since then you’ve seen me add all the income streams and add all the babies and do all these things. And I have to tell you that, you know, the truth is, I got really out of balance. Oh, I can feel the tears starting to well up. You know, I didn’t do any of these things with balance and I’ve never been someone who said that I wasn’t balanced. You know, my blood pressure was 173 over 153 when I knew that I had to change my life drastically and alter the way I was doing business. If that’s not a sign that you’re out of balance, I don’t know what is.

I managed to grow really, really well in certain areas. You know, my business was thriving, my professional life was thriving. My kids were thriving, and, and I felt good about how I was showing up in the world. But I knew there was more I could do in a different way. My marriage wasn’t doing great. But that wasn’t necessarily solely due to my professional things. It just kind of always had that as an overtone. But when I tell you, none of that had to do with perfect balance.

So here’s the plot twist, I’m going to tell you kind of spoiler alert, what it really is about. It’s about perfect presence.

I just want to shift your perspective, this language that you hear all the time around, aiming for perfect balance is not real. It’s not helpful. It’s not graceful. And it’s not an authentic goal to strive for, if you are someone who is trying to succeed professionally. Heck if you’re someone who is trying to just take care of your babies, and also drink your water, moisturize your face, you know and have a snack here and there.

If you’re aiming for perfect balance, you will miss the mark every time. What I would love to see you shift to is perfect presence. Now knowing that you will be imperfect, that’s real life. But if the goal is perfect presence, which I’ll explain to you in detail, you have something far more attainable, that you can actually aim for. So this is what perfect presence looks like. I always love to use this example. We’re all going to juggle a lot of balls in our life, right? We have to become masterful jugglers, but I want you to get really great at identifying which of these balls are made out of rubber. And which of these balls are made out of glass.

So here’s an example of how I’ve identified that in my life. Rubber balls are things like carpool pickup. If I pick up my little one or if the Misterfella, my guy Alex, picks up the little one. Not really something that’s a make or break in my relationship with my tiny, right? She’s not going to remember every single pickup over the course of hundreds of pickups during her schooling career, right? It’s a rubber ball. So if I miss one, I can bounce back from that. Are you picking up what I’m laying down?

But there are glass balls. Glass walls are also being juggled with the rubber ones. And glass balls look like things like did I make it to her for a school play? The week that she started middle school did I decide to travel on that date? Or did I decide to be home to make sure I was supporting her? So I’m going to use a real transparent moment, you know as someone who is solely responsible for my babies and is, you know, I’m grateful the Mistefella is here all the time and is supporting us but you know it’s just me. I’m the primary parent. And what that means is when she was going into sixth grade for the mamas out there listening and for the women who remember Middle School, it’s crazy. You think you kind of know what you’re going into, you have first day of school excitement. But there’s so much happening. There are bigger people in the school, lots of emotions, lots of feels. And that is exactly what occurred.

I knew she was going into something new and that my job as a mother was to make myself available to her. I didn’t know what I was preparing for, but I knew I needed to be present, just in case anything came up. So what did that look like in a business standpoint? It meant that when I was scheduling my book tour, which is happening from October 9 through October 18, that when they said to me, Nicole, when can we do this book tour, I said, look, the publication date has got to not be around her first week of school. Ideally, not around her first month of school. I would like to have a good solid six week to two month cushion around this time, because not being there to support her during the beginning of middle school means that I may drop a glass ball that will shatter the rest of her schooling career.

Now I know that can sound dramatic but I know my daughter, that contextualization, right putting into context, experiences she’s having at the forefront, keeps her in the game. She’s a new human to this planet and everything that she’s being introduced to is still new. So I really want to make sure that as she walks into her experiences in middle school, as she’s introduced to older kids talking about things she may not have heard before, as she gets new homework and more responsibility and more flexibility and more independence, that she has a mom that’s there on the day she needs to talk about it and the mom that’s there on the days that she may not think she needs to talk about it. But someone there is looking at her and saying a conversation needs to be had. And I am the person who does that. I am her mama. And so you better believe that that was a glass ball that I was juggling, and it was not worth shattering.

So right there, I just want you to take a moment and pause. How many of you, wow many times have you sat here and felt like everything you are juggling in life, that you’re trying to “balance” is a glass? All that Oh, my goodness, what if I drop it? What if it shatters? What will I do? These are all such serious things. And I’m the only one who can do it. I want to tell you’re still going to keep juggling, but you need to start realizing that certain things fall into different categories and you’re not going to be perfect every day. You will drop the ball. I just want you to keep your eye on what really matters. And that’s what perfect presence is.

So perfect presence is essentially look, I travel as a mom, I work really hard. Part of my brand is being on TV sets. When I’m filming a show I am working 15 hour days. You know, I meet with clients, I have speaking engagements. I’m really blessed and I’ve worked hard to have the career that I have. But my babies are always my priority. You can ask my littles, all three of them, right up to 24, on any given day, if I was on stage, with the fanciest of fancy people, if they called me I’d have to say, I’m really sorry, Beyonce, I gotta move. I gotta go, my baby’s calling. Best, sis. That would be the energy.

And I know that you’re the same way too and so perfect presents is that when I’ve identified where I need to be and what matters most in each season, because it often will change, right? It has changed just with three kids alone, where I need to be for my 24 year old in some seasons is different from where I need to be for my 21 year old. And same with my 11 year old. So where I need to be in each of these seasons is critically important to identify because when I am there, I am all in.

I aim for a perfection in my presence. I want my kids to feel like they are the full priority. Like they are critically important. Like I am all in and totally interested in everything that they have going on. Because one, that’s the truth. I love my babies and I want them to feel and know that because if I give them that, it can hold them through the weekend that I have to leave and go do a speaking gig. And so that’s what I aim for.

So here’s some simple ways that I maintain perfect presence. If I have to, you’ve never heard this one before, so you hear people say on the internet all the time, put down your phone, right? When you’re with your little, give them perfect presence, put down your phone, don’t look at your phone, leave it in another room, like you hear that all the time. Am I right? Well, I want to tell you that I have other kids, right? <laughs>

So when I’m with one of them, not having my phone could be an issue because my other kids may need me right? And I have people that I’m responsible for, you know, and for a long time, I had a father who was very ill with Parkinson’s. Keeping my phone near me is a real thing plus I work. And so I want you to know right now that perfection in that form for me looks like I’ve gotten really good at if I’m using my phone, and I’m with my kids, and I’m addressing something brief. I will say to them, just like this, Hey, cutie pie, what you’re saying to me is really important and I want you to have my full attention, can you hold that thought for a split second, while I just finished this, so that I can give you all of my attention because I don’t want to half hear what you’re saying. Because I want to be all in. And so what will happen is if and I try again, to not look at my phone, let’s understand that that’s the baseline, right? If perfection is I’m not looking at my phone at all, sure. But if something comes up, or if they catch me and walk into the room, in the middle of a text, I just articulate that they’re important to me, and that they are not more important than anything I’m doing on my phone.

And so I say all of this to you so that you can understand that. Look, there is imperfection built into any of these processes but perfect presence looks like attempting, having intentionality around letting your littles know that they matter to you and that they are something you’re focused on in that moment. So when I think of balance, knowing that the life that I live, the business that I run, and frankly, I just wanna be completely honest, you don’t have to be a business owner, to feel out of balance.

If you’re a mom, you know, I talked a moment ago about those seasons with your littles. You know, I’ve got one that will be 12 soon, you know, 21 and 24. They’re all going through their own version of stuff, particularly because they’re so far apart, that, you know, it’s work to keep up with them. It’s work to keep up with, it’s not easy. You know, so my 24 year old. Some of you may know this already, through some of these conversations, but if you don’t, and you read, Nothing is Missing, you’ll kind of hear the foundation of this, but she is in the middle of a recovery journey and right now, I believe she has about 170 days sober. And I am so so so so incredibly proud of her, because she puts her sobriety first. And she knows that we are all champions, you know, for her care, and self love and loving herself. And my 24 year old though, also knows that I’m never ever leaving. And if she calls Mama, I’m there.

And in various seasons during her sobriety journey, and in various seasons that you will read about, you know, in my book, I’ve had to be there for her in different ways. You know, some of parenting as a mother is knowing when to let go and let live, you know, watching them experience things, knowing that everything that you have put inside of them, they still have. So I was very much in balance and in flow with her growth, because that was how she needed me in that season.

The same thing applies with my 21 year old, as you read Nothing is Missing you’ll hear about some of the cancer journey, we went on with her she was diagnosed with stage four cancer. And thankfully, she’s completely fine. God is so so good. But we have the chemotherapy journey during that journey, oh my gosh, keeping imbalance with having two other children, you know, was very difficult and any parent that has a child that has, you know, super special, you know, needs or has different attention requirements, you know, understands that the guilt that you feel of not being able to sort of be with each child equivalently is tough, but, you know, sometimes certain kids need you more, differently and the balance is actually being there in that season. It wasn’t forever, but for that timeframe, saving Krissy’s life was me being in balance. There was nowhere else and nothing else I needed to do.

So I also want to extend that grace to you, you know, yes, sometimes we’re going to drop a ball. Let’s try to make sure that the rubber ones and knock glass, you know, yes, once in a while we’re going to be in situations where we’re called to work a little bit later than normal, or we have to answer the text message at the table. Let’s make sure our littles know that they’re still the priority when that happens. If we have to travel and be away, you know, set the expectations and the boundaries with their littles. I tell my littles all the time, especially my 12 year old, hey, Mom’s gonna be in a place where this is what the time zones are so I want you to know that even if you call me if I’m asleep, this is when I’m going to be able to get back to you and know that that’s what that means. It was a timezone thing, not a secondary priority thing and if it is urgent, I want you to know that these are the people you can contact and somebody will come to my room, knock on my hotel room, wake me up and I will get on that phone.

So I can tell you that in empowering my littles to understand that they are always the priority. It has allowed me to empower and bless myself with the grace to make mistakes. And I do, often. There have been seasons where I was so out of balance, that in that season, the priority was me. And that is something that we don’t hear very often. And we don’t encourage that moms ever take time to make themselves the priority. But when I tell you, as a mother, if you are in a season where you hopefully have a partner that understands, you know, hopefully are in a situation where you have that grace, if you need to take that week, even if it’s just a staycation at home girl, if you need to take time to heal, to get better, so that you can get back in there, that is the priority that is staying in balance. And that is some of the shift that I hope you can make in knowing that that is my truth. 

I have no hesitation about the time that I’ve had to take to make sure I restored myself considering how hard I work, and how deeply and thoroughly I have showed up for the people in my life and how I’ve supported and how I’ve built and also knowing that anything that we do, especially as moms, I mean, look, whenever we know that we’re going to be leaving town, what do we do? We stocked the fridge, we clean the house, we make sure things are there. For those of you who have the financial flexibility. We hire nannies and staff and after school programs, I mean, look at us, you know what I mean? Our babies are our priorities in a million ways. And all those things matter, right? Filling the fridge, hiring the nannies, all of that. But more than that, the part I want to add to you, which again, helps us make sure that we’re maintaining that healthy balance, quote, unquote, balance, right? Is making sure that we’re communicating that they’re the priority and when we are there, we’re aiming for perfect presence.

So friend, I want to let you know, first and foremost, I need you to grant yourself some grace, these constant conversations about remaining in balance about doing it all and doing it perfectly and still getting perfect fruit. Frankly, they don’t serve anyone because it is also no one’s reality.

Wherever you are right now, if you’re saying to yourself, I should have been there or I could have done that. Or this was a place where I could have done more. I want you to focus instead on where you are now and doing the best you can and know that as long as you’re intentional and your heart is with your babies and you’re communicating, you and all that you do is enough. Friend, remember nothing is missing.