Nicole:

Hey, friends. So I know that so many of you met me through one of my many viral videos and I want to actually take you back. This is a story I have yet to tell but people asked me about all the time. I have had three pretty big viral moments, actually one of them has more views than the entire country of Australia. So combined, I probably have maybe 200 million views under my belt and they’re made up of pretty much these three viral videos.

And it’s likely where we’ve either met or where you’ve seen me before, but may not have recognized me. And the reason you may not recognize me is because if you don’t know this yet, this is the secret to getting a viral video, make sure you look a hot mess. If you don’t have makeup on, if your hair is not done, if you aren’t wearing a bra, if you are breaking out and sweat, odds are you will likely go viral. It is never when your life is together.

Okay, I’m just letting you know that right out of the gate. So you may not have recognized me but you’ve probably seen one of my videos. Now, the first one was when I was hiding from my neighbors, if you will. And this one was just what I was taking my daughter to the bus stop. So this was almost gosh, six, seven years ago. And people call it either the tennis mom video or the bus stop mom video. But essentially, I was taking my daughter to the bus stop in the morning and I was talking about how just difficult it is to make nice with the other cool moms in my neighborhood because frankly, y’all know me, I’m not the cool mom, not in that traditional sense, right? I’m like the cheese eating, kind of dusty, you know, still thrift for my kids, even if I live in the nice neighborhood type of mom, right? This is why we are the same, right?

But I’m living in you know, at the time, I was living in this like, you know, fancy pants suburban neighborhood where you know, all the moms, you know, played tennis every day. And they wore their tennis outfits to the bus stop. And y’all I am scrambling in the morning. I mean, I am combing my way in the dark to grab clothes off my bathroom floor while I run this kid to the bus stop because I barely have it together. And I am shoving you know a bagel in her hand and hoping that she’ll eat it on the bus, like this is me. And then you get to the bus stop. And then the moms are like, you know, trying to chat but it’s always like the same type of mom chat. And realistically, like I didn’t brush my teeth. I don’t really want to talk like it’s this weird thing.

So I you know, kind of captured that moment, you know of like them asking me things like, is the bus always that late? Yes. It’s always this late. But trust me, it always comes and our kids always disappear. Oh my gosh, it’s so hot in Maryland today. What’s up with the weather? And I’m like, yeah, sometimes it’s hot. Sometimes it’s cold. So this was the first viral video and it just took off because so many of the mamas out there related to the awkwardness of just being a hot mess. While some of these other moms seemed like they professionally have it together. So it was a combination of both just sheer laughing at ourselves, right like self deprecating. We are hot messes together, unite. And a little bit of that, you know, I don’t know, admiration, if you will, because there are some of us moms who are managing to, you know, give our kids kisses on the head and have them all put together, knowing they’ll roll right back to us looking a hot mess. Right?

So all that being said, that was my first viral video, and then my second viral video was when I was dropping my daughter off at college. And this was also a mom video, ironically enough, and we had dropped her off to college three days prior. And this video was me going back to the college and literally walking around the campus looking for my daughter, and I was looking for my daughter because I hadn’t heard from her in three days. And this viral video had again, a mixed response, right? You know, half the moms were like, look, this is me. I don’t care where you are. If I don’t hear from you for three days, you are my daughter, I am coming to find you. Right, like a lot of us related. We’re like I am on that energy.

And then of course the other side of it, which we will talk about today a bit, you know, which was, oh my gosh, let your kid breathe. Like you don’t hear from her for three days, don’t be a helicopter mom. We’re gonna talk about that today. No, we’re gonna talk about that response. And then my last viral video or most one of my most recent ones, I’ve had some mini viral videos, shout out to AJ of the Backstreet Boys this week who stitched one of my videos on Tiktok where I was with the Puffin at a diner and… it’s hilarious.

You guys have to go to my Instagram at Nicole Walters and watch this video. And I was sitting with her and She was like, Oh, Mom, look at those older adults over there having breakfast. That’s so awesome. They look like some type of band. And I was like, what type of band are they look like? And she said, the Backstreet Boys, y’all, when you watch this video and see I do a slow pan over to you know who she was talking about? They looked more like the Beach Boys. Okay. I mean, they were literally I don’t think there was a single person at that table under the age of 70. And I literally looked at her and said, how old do you think the Backstreet Boys are? Like, you’ve got to be kidding me. And needless to say, it was like a really funny, cute moment. And it found its way to the Backstreet Boys, when Lance Bass of insync saw the video and sent it to them.

So cute little viral moment this week, and it’s, you know, circling around. But my third viral moment was actually back in 2020, when I shared a little bit of my story in my background, about, you know, being a black woman in America doing the sort of racial reconciliation moment awareness, you know, that occurred after George Floyd’s murder. And, you know, what was interesting was, so many of the moms who had found their way to me in the previous two videos, really, were touched by that sharing because it was relatable, it was something that they could understand. And they felt like I used language that allowed them to be empowered to share the story as well, and really understand some of the struggles and difficulties of being black in America.

And, you know, having kids and wanting them to be safe, and all all those things. So, you know, I’m really blessed to have had, you know, several videos that brought both laughter and learning into people’s lives. And it’s likely how you found me, but I want to share with you today, the other side of that. So one of the things that is very difficult about being out in the world, and I share this with you, because I know a lot of you either are hesitant to share your life, you choose to be private, because it’s easier, you know, and that is your choice, and it is appropriate, some of you feel called to do more, you know, to be able to be out there and, you know, maybe share your story. Some of you feel that poll or that tug, or you’re trying to find that happy balance of boundaries, and also sharing what you know.

And I just, you know, always want to give you kind of as friends, you know, the perspective of what that’s like, and some of the hard things I’ve had to deal with, and just be very transparent. So a lot of people see these viral moments, and the feedback and response can be different. So on some of the videos, what I’ll say, let me just shout this out, friends overwhelmingly, is no matter what you do in life, it always turns out better than you hoped. I just want to be really transparent about that. It always, always turns out better than you hoped. So from all of this viral exposure, my life overwhelmingly is better. I have had an increase in visibility, I’ve had an increase in opportunities, I’ve had an increase in income, my children have been blessed, like it has overwhelmingly been good.

I will also say that a lot of that is because the content that I do is with the intention of being good. There are lots of ways to go viral and if you have a history of creating content that is impactful and positive. And again, good, you know, you will see positive things from that even if you have mixed feedback from it. Now to that mixed feedback. One of the things that’s very difficult about being a public figure or having a life with more visibility is that you will get negative feedback. And this is something that I have never really said out loud, because I’ve always been kind of scared to say it out loud, because I’m like, I don’t want people to use it against me. And it is definitely a sore point. But I’ve chosen today to say it out loud. Because I’ve always found that whenever I keep things to myself, it has more strength versus saying it out loud.

So the truth is, it’s amazing, all the things people will come for me for they will come for me for my marriage, for being in love for losing weight for, you know, growing my business, for everything. And crazily enough, as much as people will come from me for those different things, you would think that that would affect me. And it really doesn’t. Whenever people have a commentary, as someone who’s lost over 100 pounds regarding my weight or my body, it’s not a nice thing to say, right? And those things are impolite, but they don’t actually hurt my feelings. And the reason why they don’t hurt my feelings is because, you know, that sort of stuff is, I know who I am. I feel comfortable in my body. Like it just doesn’t feel true. Right? It’s not something that taps on an insecurity. And I think a lot of you can relate to that.

People can say certain things about you and it just sounds so outlandish and weird that it just doesn’t really affect you kind of rolls off your back a little easier. But the one thing that overwhelmingly, I can feel myself getting like choked up about it because it just, it’s such a thing that is so hard for me to hear as negative feedback. And it is difficult is about my parenting. It’s about being a mother.

And I’ve never said this out loud, because I’ve always been really scared that like, if I say it will people come for more will people use and leverage it more knowing it’s more sensitive, but I also know that in holding it in, you know, it gives it more power. And I want to say overwhelmingly, the world is incredibly supportive of me as a mom. I think other moms can see and understand the challenges of being a mom. And so we’ve gotten very good at giving grace and thankfully, a lot of you hear and, you know, if you’re a newbie joining the journey, you know, you have seen the journey of me being a mom, literally from before I adopted my girls all the way through. And I’ve shared fairly openly about the highs and lows related to that, while still protecting their boundaries and privacy.

And when I say that, when you get those comments, you know, people saying like, You’re a bad mom, or you’re not doing this right or this should be done differently, or you’re using your kids or you know, just things like that, or like but they express concern about your kids or their well being, when I tell you it just hits different. And you know, and I have those moments, it’s crazy, you’ll get like 100 amazing comments, or feedbacks, or DMs, and then you get one person who’s just like, you know, I think really terrible, you know, because you did this, or I think you could do this differently because of this. And I know that this wherever you are, if you’re in the car at Target right now, or if you are, you know, listening to this on the way to work, or if you’re listening to this while momming, you know, in the kitchen, I think that this is one thing that literally anyone, anyone who has a kid or a real sensitive issue can relate to.

It like rings in your head. And the reason it rings in your head over and over and over again, is because it is the thing that we actually love and care about the most. And it is so difficult to hear feedback from anyone, right? Like, which it’s so easy to be like, Well, who cares? These people aren’t in your home, they don’t know you yada, yada. But it’s really hard when the concerns and fears that you have inside your own heart are personified outside. Like I’m yelling this at myself every day. So I’m really trying not to cry. Like, I don’t know, if people realize that there is no level of bashing or things people could say about how I am as a mom, that is any harder or harsher than I am on myself.

And it sounds crazy. I know. Because people say it all the time that like no, you know, you adopted these girls and Nicole like you showed up and you know all these things, but I don’t know if you know the people who criticize realize and if they don’t need to realize it because frankly people who criticize it’s never actually about you or the action. Trust me, there’s the part of your mind and your heart that knows that. We all know that, it’s never really about that. It’s about people looking for a way to break you down. And so they’re looking for, you know, wanting a way to criticize because there’s nothing served, right?

Like when people say terrible things about you, particularly if they don’t say it to you, they’re not actually looking to improve you, right? They’re just saying it because they’re looking to voice negativity, because that’s their opinion, you know, because truly, if someone felt like you’re actually a bad mom or something that they would call like child protective service. Or if they didn’t like the way that you parented they might say it to you in hopes that they would help or drop a link to serve you. Like it literally is just people saying harmful things just to be hurtful or just to like quip and talk about it, you know, but it’s wild because when people say these things, and you realize like how hard you’re trying, you know I love my girls so much. And I hold them in such high regard. The responsibility, I don’t know what it’s like when you carry, right like thankfully, God willing, I will someday you know, I don’t know what it’s like to carry my own child yet.

And I don’t necessarily understand that relationship or connection that people have when they carry their own child. But what I can tell you is that I feel a responsibility, a loyalty, a dedication, an obligation and honor, you know, a privilege to show up in these girls’ lives in a way that is so thorough and big and complete, that it’s overwhelming at times. That’s how much I love them. The critics, you know, and also just the observers, right. And also, even the internet aunties, as much as you all have seen through the viral videos, and the stories and on social media of our girls growing up and as much as you’ve seen, and lent the love and the prayer and the covering over our family in your lives, when I tell you, all of that goodness that you’ve seen of my babies, is literally only like 1% of how good they actually are.

These girls have survived things that some people have only had nightmares about, they have their own books that could be written. And when I tell you that I wish that I could give, I would give my life to erase some of the things that they’ve experienced. And as a mom, you know, a lot of people don’t realize that the things that they see in the viral videos, or the interactions that we have, you know, are, again, 1% of 100% of our lives, and there’s a levity to our life, because of some of the darkness that we’ve experienced together, you know, and independently.

Our home is so filled with like, light, and joy, and laughter, and safety. Our home is so safe, when I tell you, it is a place where it’s probably the thing that I have elevated above all else as a parent, in the raising of my children, because I realize that if they feel safe within me being like, you know, I consider mom being like base, right? Like, you can always come back to base, touch base and you’re safe, right. And if they feel safety within me, they know that they can get guidance, they can get direction, they can get support, they can get love, even if it means that I’m, you know, playing with them or cracking a joke or, you know, we have almost like a friendship energy with my older girls, you know, but make no mistake, it is clear that I am mom. 

And I make that clear, because there’s a little bit of that traditional old school in me where it’s like, look like, you know, we can be hip and cool and aware of social and Tiktok and all those things but at the end of the day, like we’re not going to get out of pocket, I’m still mama. And I just take that this is the most serious job I have. And so I say this because I think that a lot of moms can realize and recognize that it’s hard to live life, it’s hard to build a business and spend time away from home and go through a frickin divorce and deal with all of these things. And also want to feel like you’re showing up in the most perfect and pristine way for your kids. Right?

So I say all this to say that criticism, you know, it hurts and it’s hard. But this kind of brings me to the lesson from all of this you know, if you follow my social media you’ve seen that I always will call out if there’s a particular thing that I think is wildly inappropriate. You know, that is said or a question or criticism. I have had people criticize and say things like Nicole, you don’t have enough black girlfriends because they’ve seen me hanging out with like my core girl squad. Little do they know that my core girl squad is a Filipino, a Texan white girl, you know a half Ghanaian, half Filipino and me. So it’s just, you know, people will say things based on what they see and not what reality is, you know, people don’t even read the captions. And they’ll say something. So, you know, but I’ve gotten comments like that I’ve gotten comments about wearing crop tops, you know, that I can’t believe you would wear a crop top to a meeting, oh, sis, of course, oh, aircraft up to the meeting. I’m the owner of the company who’s gonna fire me boo. <laughs>

I mean, these are real things, you know, but you know, I’ll get these comments and you’ll see me call out and respond to them. And again, like I said, most of them, you know, it’s easy enough for me to keep my cool because, like, you know, kind of water off my back. But you know, being a mom, that’s always tough, it hits hard, because it’s just the job that I take so seriously, and I’m always trying to improve. So sometimes I hold space for feedback I shouldn’t hold space for but that brings me to the lesson, you know, that I am really trying to apply to my life and I hope that you hear as well as you’re hearing criticism. And you know, if you are a healthy, you know, well adjusted person, you know, and you hear feedback, you may give it a little bit of space because you know, you are not so egotistical that you think you’re imperfect, and I’ll let you know that the thing that I’m really holding close is you know, don’t dim your light just because it’s shining in their eyes.

And that’s something that I actually call out a lot of my book, which is available for pre sale now it’s called nothing is missing. You can purchase it anywhere books are sold. And it’s my memoir, it goes into a lot of the behind the scenes of these stories of the viral moment of raising my kids. You know, if you’ve seen 1% online, the book is going to take you all the way up to 50%. You know, so I really put a lot of color behind everything that is happening. And I say this to let you know that. You know, one thing I’ve learned is, it’s not your typical thing that you hear all the time where it’s like, don’t listen to your haters, right, or, you know, these people are just hating on you because you’re flexing it’s not that it’s that if you’re a person who’s out in the world, doing good, you know, and you guys know, oh, my god, girl, right? You know, if we are lights that are put on a hill, we are going to shine, we are going to shine. And every single thing that has happened in my life God has used for good. You know, when I had my first viral video, you know, where I was, you know, on this college campus with my daughter, and people were saying I was a helicopter mom and all of this. I mean, I’m telling you, I was in a ball. I was teary. I couldn’t believe that someone would say something like that, when it’s so clear, to this day, let’s just be real friends. Let’s be real to this day. I still, if someone wants to send me an email helping me understand this perspective, I still cannot believe that there are people who think it is wild that if you don’t hear from your kid for three days after dropping them off at college, for the first time, your daughter, your 18 year old daughter that it is appropriate to not look into it. Like that blows my mind literally, like maybe I am a crazy mom, but I accepted on that count. You know what I mean? Because if I don’t hear from you, and you’re not answering your phone, and I can’t reach you, I’m coming to find you.

Like my girls know this. I’ve even said if it’s an apocalypse stay put mom was coming to find me like I’m coming to find you. So it still is crazy to me. But I’m not kidding. I still was in my head like who am I? Am I over the top? Am I suffocating my kids, when we have an open safe house. My kids are saying like No mom, like it’s we know when you’re joking. We know when you’re not, we know when you’re angry. And we know when you’re not we like the way you balance out like my kids, they like we truly have a very amazing relationship I’m super grateful for and so it’s so interesting that I still got in my head about it. And I say this to you because I know we all do this. But I want to let you know that. In these moments, one of the things I learned was God was preparing me for it.

Because here it’s a tiny microcosm, in the very beginning. It’s a tiny viral video of the type of visibility I’ve had since then. I’ve had TV shows, I’m working on current TV show projects, I’ve, you know, got a book tour coming up, you know, in October. I’ve got all these things. And at that point, I wasn’t even thinking about writing a memoir. And now I have a book that is literally going to reveal everything about me, my childhood, my life, my background, all of the things and y’all I am sick to my stomach about it. You know, even while having people read it and say this book is unputdownable, it is transformative. I cannot believe you know what you survived in the lessons you’re sharing.

And yet, you know, I still was, you know, heartsick about some of this feedback. And I just want to let all of you know, you know, more and more, as I am in this world and have been blessed with the platform and grateful for the gift to be able to share the things that God has delivered me from and how he has been able to do it. That I do not want you, wherever you are, to be hesitant about sharing what you know you have simply because you know someone out there is uncomfortable seeing you shine. If people have a hard time seeing you out there and shine, the problem is not you and the way that you’re shining is the fact that they don’t own a good pair of sunglasses. They need to adjust, because you’re going to be out there doing the good work. And everyday when you show up for your kids, you’re doing the best you can with what you’ve got. And that is enough.

And every time you show up in your business, you are doing the best you can with what you’ve got. And that is enough. We have to keep learning, we have to keep improving. You know, we have to listen to feedback, but it needs to be from a trusted source. And I do not want you where you are, spending time noodling the one bad thing you heard from a friend from a co-worker from a rando on the internet, when the truth overwhelmingly is that you are enough and nothing is missing.

Nicole:

Hey, y’all, I am thrilled because it’s rare that I have two people in I mean, usually our chats are just a team of two. It’s just me and you wherever you are on your couch or doing a workout or cooking dinner, but it is full on girl time. Because I have the ladies of the Moms Actually community Morgan and Blair here, you probably have listened to their podcast, you may be a part of their community. You may have seen around the internet, they’re hard to miss but they are here today to share some mom goodness to impart us with wisdom and to help us learn all of our resources so we can show up better every single day and do it with grace. So Morgan Blair, thank you so much for being here.

Morgan and Blair:

Hello! Thank you so much for having us.

Nicole:
Of course, of course. Yay. Everybody does just love it like already don’t we just feel like we’re having girl time.

Morgan and Blair:

Absolutely.

Nicole:
First things first. Your backgrounds both in business and motherhood and I do want to hear the business stuff just briefly, because really, it’s the mom stuff that we want to hear all the time. So how it led you here? Blair, kick it off. Your background.

Blair:

How it led me here? So when I was out of college, I thought I wanted to work in sports, so I worked with the Wizard,s DC. I’ve worked in all the sports. And then I realized a lot of pro athletes are very entitled. And I was like, I thought I wanted to be a publicist. And I was like, I want to spend all my time making you look good, and you don’t want to look good?

Nicole:

And walking around on eggshells and being super nice and kissing tail, all those things. So you were like, not for me.

Blair:

Not for me. So I went to a nonprofit. So for eight years, I worked at a college honor society in DC. And I went from, like, bottom of the barrel, everybody around me had masters in education. I did not have one. And I was like, I don’t know what I’m doing. And I actually met my boss at the time who became my number one mentor. She completely changed my life.

Nicole:

Amazing.

Blair:

And I started out as like, everybody was the master of that one thing. And I would say, I’m the jack of all trades, and she’s like, use that to your advantage, because if there’s anything in front of me, I’m going to figure out how to get it done.

Nicole:
You’re a hard worker!

Blair:

I’m not going to embarrass myself or anybody around me. And there’s just too many resources not to know how to do things. So I did that for eight years, and then I met my now husband, and I ended up moving to Atlanta. And so I worked at, like, an accreditation agency for a second. I worked at Morehouse school of medicine in their strategy office.

Nicole:

I love this, y’all. Are you hearing this right? So Blair’s over here like, oh, I’ve done every job. Literally. Understand that when I say jack of all trades, like, literally, I can come to your house and I will organize and decorate your living room while building the furniture myself. Then we go and cook a whole meal and watch a TV show I created. We’re going to do all..

Blair:
We are! So I did that. And then actually, while I was working at Morehouse, Morehouse school of medicine, my friend, who is a professional makeup artist, needed help as needed a manager to help him out. And so then I started a glam agency for celebrity makeup artists.

Nicole:

And hairstylists, and they need it, too.

Blair:

They do.

Nicole:

Creatives really just want to create. They do not want to manage the back end.

Blair:

And no one wants to negotiate their own deal.

Nicole:
Of course, because it’s too personal. You’re in your feels.

Blair:

And no one wants to go do someone’s makeup after you just either hiked up the price, it just becomes drama. So I did that and so I worked for myself for about two or three years doing that. And then I ended up, me and my husband, we own this music group called Maverick City Music. And so I came in as the COO of that and started formally working.

Nicole:

I don’t think you could have not done that. It is very clear that you’re the person who stands in a room, sees a problem and is like, you know what? Let me just get started.

Blair:

We’re going to figure it out.

Nicole:

This is the definition of being a mom. Every mama listening to this right now is like me all day. It’s the truth. We see something and we want to fix it. We want to work on it. And that has always been your move. So all this time, at what point did the little babies enter school?

Blair:

When did that happen? Oh, Morehouse. I got pregnant while at Morehouse School of Medicine. And I told myself before I gave birth, I need to make at least half my salary so I don’t need to go back to that job.

Nicole:

Facts, talk about the goals. Isn’t it crazy how once you have kids, you stop playing? Oh, yeah. It’s a whole different energy. And you all are going to hear this when we start talking about Morgan’s background, when Morgan’s like, wait till you find out when she became a mama and how that aligned with how she stopped playing.

Blair:

Because I was late in my, I was in my 30s when I had mine. So I did that. And then at Morehouse, I mean, at Maverick is where I learned all production. So I learned that I ended up at Maverick so I could learn how to do production for Moms Actually. Now I do Moms Actually full time.

Nicole:

Which can we just say, Blair, it looks good on you.

Blair:

Oh, thank you.

Nicole:

I can tell you’ve always meant to be an entrepreneur, and…

Blair:

I didn’t believe that about myself.

Nicole:

But it’s a truth. Many, especially mamas, we think that how could we run a business? We don’t have all the degrees, we don’t have all the training or the experience. But the truth is, we’re running our whole families and our whole lives. And if you’re a stay at home mom, you are doing finance, you are doing organization, you are doing project management, you are pitching, you are doing advertising, you are doing design. You were a chef. You are every single division of any major organization. Like, you have those skills. I love to hear it. So, Morgan, I did a little teaser. Take us back to your let’s start let’s reverse it. Let’s talk about where you were as a mommy first and how it got very real.

Morgan:

Yes. So I was actually literally going to pick it up from when you said, when you become a mom, that is when you start not playing, no game.

Nicole:

Yes, it gets so real.

Morgan:

It’s so real. So because I became a mom, I became pregnant at 19 and at 20 had my baby. And I remember I was in school and you think you’re in love with the person.

Nicole:
Yo, listening. We know nothing under 25 and even at 25, but under 25, we know. We don’t know a thing, but we think we know.

Morgan:

Yeah. And so I had already switched schools because of this. Then while you were in love, love girl. Right.

Blair:

She looked back now like.

Morgan:

Yes, but I ended up got pregnant with my daughter. And I remember going to school still, and I remember saying to myself, this is just not making sense. I want to work. I don’t want thank God, for my mom. My mom at the time was like, she actually bought a new house that we had more room for myself and my daughter and all these things. But I just was like, I need to do this for me and my child. Yes. I have my mom and I have support, but it’s something different when you have your own child.

Nicole:

Yes.

Morgan:

And so every time I was going to class and stuff and having to find a sitter, I was like, I’m wasting my time. That’s what I thought.

Nicole:
But that insight at 19 is actually not terrible because I’m raising I adopted three. So I have a 21 year old and a 24 year old, and it’s the same thing. My 21 year old is in school, my 24 year old isn’t. And I’m like, honestly, I don’t care what you do as long as you do it with excellence and as long as it’s in alignment. Because frankly, they don’t know, and hopefully they’re not listening to this, but they don’t have to do anything to like, 35 before people start looking at you like, what are you doing with your life?

Blair:

Exactly.

Nicole:

You know what I mean? But if you’re gathering info along that way, it’s fine. So what happened for you? What was that?

Morgan:

Honestly, I remember being in a parking lot and I hated the class that I was in, and it was just like it didn’t feel like it was teaching me anything that I knew I was going to use later. And I said, I’m not going to do this.

Blair:

That sounds like Morgan.

Morgan:

My mom at the time, CPA, had her own insurance, none of which requires a degree. No, exactly. And I said, you know, Mom, I’m going to get my insurance license.

Nicole:

I love that.

Morgan:

So I got my insurance license…

Nicole:
And that allowed you to stay home and earn income and be with your baby.

Morgan:

Exactly. So that’s what I did. I stayed home and then around, like, maybe right before my daughter was about to turn one, then I took that same insurance license and became a personal banker because now I had that under my belt.

Nicole:

Yes.

Morgan:

So then I just entered into the finance world, stayed in the bank industry for a couple of years, and then I said, I don’t want to do that either.

Nicole:

It’s very easy, though, to stay in the so we have very similar past, and I think that a lot of I had to work all through college because I was supporting my family. And what was interesting was when all my friends were done and graduating, they all had more debt than I did.

Morgan:

Yes.

Nicole:
I was making more money while they were all sitting on six figures in debt. You know what I mean?

Morgan:

For me, that is actually what caused me not to want to run back to school, because I was looking at my friends who did go to school who were struggling, and I was like, oh, you can’t do oh, man. I have to help you!

Nicole:

You don’t have money. You can’t get a job, struggling.

Morgan:

And even after they had graduated and everything, they were still doing struggling to do. And I’m like, I’m still climbing up the ladder because at the time and I think still that definitely rang true. Your experience matters.

Nicole:

It really does. Let’s talk about that.

Blair:

Everybody wants ten years of experience, at 20.

Nicole:

Yes. And how do you get ten years of experience by 30 if you don’t start working at 20? It’s a real setup. I hope all the mamas hear this, because you’re listening to three mamas who have done it in our own ways. Every single one of us ended up working and getting our hands dirty and also parenting and learning as parents within our household in order to get where we are. And none of that involved formal, I’m not knocking formal education. Women of color, especially black women, have the highest amount of degrees. We are the most degreed of any population within the US. So we don’t play about our education but I also am not into degree shaming because there is something to be said for the fact that the Mark Zuckerberg’s, the Bill Gates of this world, they’re all dropouts.

Blair:

Exactly.

Nicole:

And it’s because of the fact that they realize, why would I stay here and spend this money when I could be using this money to build something bigger? And I just don’t want us to buy into the fact that we can’t do that for ourselves, or we need a degree to be on the same platform as some guy. That’s a patriarchal lie. And we all don’t want to buy that.

Blair:

Most of us are getting degrees for the wrong reasons.

Nicole:

For the validation! Or the credibility!

Morgan:

Or because our parents told us to!

Nicole:
Yes, realistically, that shouldn’t be the reason. If you love the subject matter and or it’s required because Lord knows I want a dentist with a degree. Please. But other than that, if that’s not it, it’s okay. Or if you got it and you’re ready to do something different, do something different.

Blair:

They want you to pick a major, and you don’t even know.

Nicole:

Would you all know, especially since we all have grown babies. Tell me what 18 year old needs to be able to be out there signing a loan for $60,000 that you have to they don’t know what they’re doing.

Blair:

It’s a Ponzi scheme.

Nicole:

It’s a scam. If you can’t give them a car, they can’t even go out and get a house loan, but yet they’re able to do this on something on the hopes and prayers that hey’ll pay it back. Come on. Absolutely. Like, oh, my God.

Morgan:

I remember filling out those forms, and I’m like…

Blair:

I didn’t read them! You have to sign it!

Morgan:

Every single time I did it, I kept thinking like, this just seems like more money I’m going to have to pay back, and I could just be making the money and not having to pay anybody back. And so that’s what fueled that for me. I’m like, I would rather make the money, save the money, invest it where I need to.

Nicole:
And be with your baby…

Morgan:
And be with my child because I’m young, and I’m like, if I’m going to do this mom thing, I’m going to do it. I’m going to commit to it and be intentional about it.

Nicole:

Amazing at 19.

Blair:
When I ended up staying home after having my kid, I was like, I actually want to go back to work.

Nicole:

Oh, my gosh. When all my babies aren’t home, I’m like, all my babies, the minute all three of them in the house. Don’t y’all have someplace to be? What is going on right now? So no. Oh, my gosh. So you ended up committing to the mommy life, getting into the work world, and then you two found each other, which you can’t tell, but I mean, you would think these two were college roommates, in each other’s wedding.

Morgan:
In our head we are.

Nicole:

You can meet people and just tell, like, oh, okay. You all are just meant to be. It’s kind of like a relationship. Sisterhood, you find this, too. So you met each other, and I want to know the moment when you were like, we should do a podcast because this is such a thing where people are like, we tell the best stories. We’re such moms. Tell me, what was that moment like, take us there. Let me sit in the room with you.

Morgan:

Yes. Well, come on down to South Carolina. We went to a woman’s conference, and before the woman’s conference, just putting you in the perspective of where my head was, I actually had just, I was a fresh entrepreneur.

Nicole:

Oh, my gosh.

Morgan:

Really fresh.

Nicole:

What were you doing, specifically that took you to the conference?

Morgan:
I had decided that I was going to put all of my time and energy into building my own brand called the Millennial Moms Club. And so I started that. Just quick caveat. I started that after my son because I had gotten postpartum depression. And I was like, nobody should go through this.

Nicole:

And not alone.

Morgan:

Nobody should go through this alone. Because in 2018, I could look online, and there was a lot of bloggers, but they also were not relate. They weren’t anybody who I could relate with. I couldn’t find a lot of black women that were saying, I have postpartum depression.

Nicole:

Well, it’s also difficult sometimes. I don’t think we can tell if you’re a woman of color. We think it’s just living. Of course I notify myself. Of course I have to manage all these things. It just is what it is. But it’s heavier.

Blair:

I thought postpartum depression was like, you wanted to k*** your kid.

Morgan:

And I knew that wasn’t the thing. Not to mention I had already had two children before that, so this feeling was so different. And I was like, okay, I know something’s wrong. And then once I finally figured it out, and even with the doctor and the little ten questions they give you that are kind of like…

Nicole:
Well, because it’s not a specialty. It’s kind of something that’s just tucked into everything else. And if you all don’t know, but I’m planning on starting my fertility journey for the first time in carrying. I have three babies I’m looking to carry, and I’m doing a lot of reading about it because I’m also finding, as you guys, they’ve talked about this extensively. If you all aren’t listening to Mom’s Actually podcast, do it. If you’re not part of the community, join. Just because a lot of what you’re talking about is the fact that postpartum looks like more than just depression. It’s anxiety, which I had never heard of. And then postpartum grief, which is just mourning the life you used to have, which isn’t related to your babies, and it isn’t related to disliking where you are. It’s just that I recognize that I will never just up and walk out anymore or just be me.

Morgan:

You’re grieving yourself.

Nicole:
This is going to sound cheesy, but I just got a dog, and now I’m splitting my love already with my new guy. The dog likes my new guy better. So it’s just like, I’m over here. Like, wow, I’ve already lost a little bit of you.

Blair:

I love that my kids love my husband more when they love him. I’m like, Go, Daddy, to give me a bath. Good job. Go for it.

Nicole:

Specifically for those things. But if you want cuddles and hugs, I’m available. Okay, so you were going through this time, and you were like, I just need fellowship, community.

Morgan:

I need people. I pretty much was like, okay, I think this is a good time for me to go and get poured into because I also felt so depleted at the time.

Nicole:

Good for you.

Morgan:

Yeah. I was at my wits end for sure, because I had also tried to build this brand that in my mind made sense. And it’s still, we kind of talked about this earlier. It does make sense, but I think I was premature.

Nicole:

Sure.

Morgan:

And so I was like, okay, God, you need to give me a sign that I am called to really just be able to speak to women all over the world and specifically speak to mothers. Like I’m called to mothers. And so I said, you have to tell me very clearly. And I typically don’t stand ten toes down with God like that.

Nicole:

Yeah, no ultimatums.

Morgan:

Yeah, no, your will, not mine.

Nicole:

But I was like, also, like, I’m really not going to do nothing, that type of energy.

Morgan:

Yes. And so I did that and the whole theme of the conference was permission. And so you know that, right? So when you hear something like that, you’re like, oh, it’s going to be so motivating, all this stuff. There were multiple, countless moments about strictly motherhood.

Nicole:

Unbelievable. Because it really could have been any. Pursue relationship to get the marriage and you’re like, I’m not even here for that.

Morgan:

Everything about that weekend was all about motherhood. There was a sermon about motherhood, there was an altar call about…

Nicole:
And normally that doesn’t happen just because the audience isn’t all mothers. Even here in our community, we’re super blessed. Everybody is, I think, a mother in some respect, right? Like whether we’re mothering at our work or mothering our like, I have friends who have been mothers to me in certain seasons, you know what I mean? So mothering, I think, is sometimes within us in different facets and the super aunties, child-free by choice. But all that being said, it’s amazing that you were in a room where that was the topic. Because typically for conferences, unless they say it, it is not.

Morgan:

And that’s what I thought I said, okay, God, I hear you, all right, I hear you. And we were on the same row and I remember you give the girl her outfits cute or something like that, and you’re just like, oh, hey, girl. And that’s kind of what we did. And then at the very end of the conference, they’re like having this whole altar call. Her husband comes next to me and he just starts laying his hands on me and he’s like, help is on the way.

Nicole:

Oh, wow.

Morgan:

Help is on the way. Help is on the way. That’s all he kept saying after he was praying, and I was like a mess.

Blair:

He doesn’t know nothing about her.

Nicole:

He doesn’t know. You don’t know. Blair’s husband is Guyanan and Guyanas, we are very extra, okay? We are very Christian. Yes, we are very Christian. And we are very serious about the interactivity of our Christianity. It is not something inside. There is no whispered prayer. If you have ever had dinner with a Guyanan. All right, everyone, bow your head for prayer. Holy Ghost, we ask that you come into our plates today in Jesus name, I’m like, I just want to mash potatoes. But it’s like we going to pray today. So I love hearing this because it’s so true.

Morgan:

Okay. All right. I receive this! And I did. I said…

Blair:
I stopped pressing my back. <laughs>

Morgan:

Yes so literally, I think we ended up being back in the green room or something like that together. And it was funny because she’s like, you’re a mom. You must have been ten when you had your children.

Nicole:

I get that too, because I have a 24 year old. But y’all, if you can’t, you can’t see the ladies definitely head over to their Instagram. Head over. Just because they’re pleasant on the eyes, right? We should all have something beautiful to put our eyes upon. And these two ladies, they look like they could be in their 20s, hanging out like, I’m over here in LA. You all are going to have people out here running in line to the med spa. Gorgeous. And I believe it.

Morgan:

I’m very grateful for it. But yeah, so we did all of that, but it was very short, very sweet. And so once I saw her, I was like, let me follow her. Because, you know, that’s the thing now these days.

Nicole:

I’m not going to lie. So I can see what you’re about, you know what I mean? That’s the truth. I just want to see and also the phrase I’m always telling my clients is like, consistency, right? It’s not even just that I want to see your evolution. I just want to see who you are. Let me scroll back a couple months and years and see if you were posting different things and we’re allowed to evolve. But if you want to meet someone new, it’s nice to be able to go back and see we’re not enough.

Blair:

Or were you smart enough to archive your ratchet days. <laughs>

Nicole:

Archiving is for a reason. Sometimes we start brand new. We weren’t always saved. <laughs>

Morgan:

And she ended up on Monday. That Monday, I got back and I received a DM from her. And she’s like, hey, girl, I knew I liked you for a reason. I saw you do a mom’s. You have a mom platform. And she’s like, I used to have one, too. She sent me a link to her old mom platforms that she had and literally those two DMs, then she says she said, yeah. Then I’m like, yeah. I’m like telling her, I’m like, I had postpartum. No, I had PPA. No pressure. If you want to work together, let me know.

Nicole:

Because that is what Blair’s like. If you all did not pick this up before, again, she’s a doer. And you were like, this makes sense.

Blair:

Because I was at the conference praying about the same thing because I had the platform in 2020. And then people kept asking, are you going to bring it back? Are you going to bring it back? And I was like…

Nicole:

In the right context, with the right person, with the right direction and all of that.

Blair:

What really got me about her content. Not that it was that it was mom content because there’s a lot of parenting content…

Nicole:
Yeah like hacks and tricks and tools to rear the children, but it’s children focused.

Blair:

And I was like, the fact that I found someone that’s mom and woman focused. I was like, okay, God, this is it. Clearly. Because I could have been on anyone else’s page. But it was that.

Nicole:

So Mom’s Actually was born.

Morgan:

It was born that day.

Blair:

I think we had the name like the next day.

Morgan:

Yeah, she sent me her number and literally from sun up to sundown, we were texting all day long. I love sending back and forth.

Nicole:
It sounds like dating.

Blair:

We decided we were, it was like married at first sight.

Nicole:

I love to hear it. Makes me so happy. Okay, so all this being said, tell us about what you ended up birthing together. So Moms actuall

]y is this incredible podcast, which I think one of the things that is really great about this is like you said, it’s not just about the kids. There’s so many things.

Morgan:

We mention them sometimes.

Nicole:

Yeah, but it’s not just like, oh, here’s how to help them travel. Here’s what I did as a shopping trick. Or here’s how we help, here’s a piece or a tool that helps me be better for them. This is actually mom-directed, mom-driven, intrinsic. So talk to us about what the episodes are like and the type of people you have on.

Blair:

Oh, we have a lot of different people. So the episodes are about, they can be anywhere from 20 to 45 minutes, just depending on how the conversation goes. And we have influencers, we have entertainers. So the first season when we started, we weren’t going to have any guests. We were like, who would want to be on our show? Nobody knows who we are.

Nicole:

People want to chat with you all. Are you kidding me? I’m so glad to have you here. Are you kidding me? It’s good vibes. It’s girls in a room talk about real things, but it’s the way that you guys chat with people. That’s what I want you to tell us a little bit more. I mean, everyone’s going to go listen, but let’s talk a little bit about the episodes. You guys actually approach things differently. You’re not just saying, so what’s your hardest mommy hack? Like, you’re really talking to people about things they’ve gone through and how they got out of it. So what’s your favorite episode? Do you guys have the same one? Like one where you’re like, you must listen to this one to get a good context of what we’re like.

Blair:

It depends on how you want to feel. I say one of my favorite, like, if I always go back to it, is Tammy Franklin, because we were talking about sex with Kurt Franklin’s wife.

Nicole:
Which is amazing. And like, actually, I, like, have connections to the Franklin family.

Blair:

Oh, I love that.

Nicole:

And I think a lot of people, especially if you’re a Christian, they don’t think that that is a regular, like you’re still a person. Exactly. And when you’re married, you still do all the things and then and also the Franklin’s a spicy, super spicy.

Blair:

They have a whole dating TV show right now.

Nicole:

Super spicy. People don’t realize, and happily so. All that being said, what were the two takeaways from that episode? And Mama’s headphone warning, if you got the littles around because it was spicy but we want to listen. What about that episode? Really? Like, you were like, wow, this is good for me.

Blair:

That one, I just think the fact that they don’t hide their sex life from their kids yes. And I think that creates transparency in your relationship, in relationship with your kids so that they’re not scared to talk to you about those things in the future.

Nicole:
That’s so good.

Blair:

Like the fact that Tammy could sit next to her daughter’s grown, but sit next to her daughter.

Nicole:

Yeah, their kids are grown. And it’s also age appropriate.

Blair:

They have like a group chat. Like, oh, you don’t want to come in the room.

Nicole:

And again, it’s still age appropriate. I know that my current relationship with my little one, and this is also a huge part of why I talk about divorce openly and all that. And one of the things she said to me the other day when we were driving down the highway, she was like, you know what, Mommy? I can tell that you really like Alex, my new guy, because you’re all smoochie smoochie with him. And you weren’t that smoochie smoochie with dad. And like, she’s eleven. That’s her understanding of intimacy right now. But I’m also noting she’s paying attention, and that’s going to affect how she determines what is appropriate interaction down the line. And then with my 21 and 24 year old, I’m like, I am so sorry I can’t come pick you all up. I got to go be with my man. And they’re just like, gross, mom, please, not necessary. And I’m like, listen, it’s the truth. If I answer the phone, I don’t want you confused. Please do not call me. I’m busy. But it’s also, it’s good, it’s healthy, it’s positive, and they talk to you, too, and access the tone for their relationship.

Morgan:

And I think that was my takeaway is because you can tell Tammy and Kirk have done the work to make it comfortable for their children from start to finish. Now, it’s like, that made me want to just think about how intentional I am with my kids. And I have two daughters, and so I’m like daughters and sons, for sure, two daughters and one son. But with my daughters, I want them to feel like Carrington feels, because mommy-daughter relationships, they are one in a million. And you want that best friend relationship, you know what I mean?

Nicole:

But within, like, best friend. But you also know because my kids will tell me some stuff. Like, my middle one is very open about her entire life, and there are times where I’m like, mom, so you did too good. Yeah. She’s like, okay. And I’m like, I was like, Just give me I was ready for that one. But I still love that she’s wanting to ask me about that, or she’s wanting to move in with her boyfriend now. And so she’s like, I already am thinking this, but can you talk to me about what you think is right? Especially like, I think and we’re all women of faith, I think that there are just so many thoughts. And you talk about this on Moms Actually, too, because no one would have thought, oh, we’re all Christians in the room. But I’m here with Tammy Franklin talking about sex. And I think it’s so important because it’s also destigmatizing.

Blair:

100%

Nicole:
That we’re not allowed to have depression around our kids or anxiety around our kids or sex with our husband or even desire or enjoy it or want things to change. And I love that that is the openness of the podcast, too. It’s allowing us to sort of be who we are completely. So tell me more about your favorite episode.

Morgan:

I’m torn, because I want to say Erica Campbell. Really good one, because…

Nicole:
Erica has very strong opinions. She does.

Morgan:

But she is so knowledgeable. That was season one. What I’m actually really toying with is our current season, Verlonda Jackson. So it was a heavy, heavy, heavy episode.

Nicole:

Wow.

Morgan:

However, to see the way she is just carrying her grief and approaching how she is approaching it, to see how she is letting her children see her grieve, how she’s helping them through their grieving process, incredible. That, to me, it was just a sight to see. And really, it actually increased my faith. Like, I left the episode even though feeling secondary grief and empathy and all of those things, my faith was, like, stirred beyond belief.

Nicole:

Isn’t it amazing when that happens sometimes? And I just hope that all the mamas listening to this now realize that we’re all just regular people who are trying to set up and do what we think God’s calling us to do, what we have in our own hearts to do. But in that action, we also get fed. So it’s like, you build these podcasts thinking, oh, yeah, let me tell people and help them and all that, but it helps us every single time. Oh, I love that. So what is next for the Mom’s Actually podcast? Like you guys have come together. I know you’re building a community, more ways to help. I feel like there’s got to be an event. Like if you all don’t know these are, you want to be in the room with these women. You know they’re going to attract the best women. You know that you’re going to hear crazy candid stories. So I just want to know what’s coming next.

Blair:

We want to do the event, but as a business person that cares about money, we don’t want to pay. So we’re working on building the business side of everything. Yes, we created the podcast. We didn’t want to just come up with this idea and drag out like an idea until everything just kind of came together. But now we’re like, okay, we’ve started it. Now we have to be smart about how we move forward.

Nicole:

I love that you all know. I love that you guys saying like, yes, they are speaking to the right person. No, I love being strategic only because I think that a lot of especially mamas who have side hustles and this is a main hustle for you all now. But it always kind of starts as a side hustle and we hear this stuff and we feel like, well, it’s not making money, so it’s not legit or it’s not listen, when you start, there will always come a time where you’ll have to up level. Even if you started with the perfect strategy, if it’s going well, you’re going to have to change it. And so I love hearing that you still didn’t hesitate to get out there and serve and answer that call. But now that you’re learning more, it’s like, how else can we continue to serve? And you got to make money to serve. Beyonce can’t make it to Germany to do her show in her reflective garb without the ability to pay for those plane tickets.

Blair:

Moms actually will be done next year because if we’re doing everything, we’re working on the business side of everything.

Nicole:

And to let you be mamas, which is important, too. How are the kiddos doing? Give us an update. What stage are you in right now? Of oh, you all should have seen the faces. If you go on social and you see that, you got to see the face. It is summertime classic, mmmm.

Blair:

She finally got her kids out the house.

Morgan:

Because I just moved and I’m like full time. No one talks about being like full time work at home mom and stay at home mom.

Nicole:

Talk about it.

Morgan:

No one really talks about the level.

Nicole:

It’s because mom’s never closed. If I can see you, you are available to me. Yes. And that is very difficult.

Morgan:

My goodness. I mean, I love that I’m able to, you know what I mean?

Nicole:

Blessing that I can throw in a load of laundry in between calls.

Morgan:

Absolutely.

Nicole:

But it also would have been nice to scroll around and click and just watch, you know what I mean?

Blair:

Ask you to wipe their butt.

Nicole:

Like screaming from the bathroom. It’s fine. I just got to wrap up this call.

Morgan:

Thank you for this opportunity to wipe your butt. Who would have thought? You are saying like, I just need to wrap up this call really quick and then I can come wipe your.

Nicole:

Butt, literally or tell you the person on the call. So sorry. I will give you 1 second. He is literally sitting there right now. I have got to go wipe my kids butt and I will be back.

Morgan:

Yes.

Nicole:

Stuff you don’t talk about. I feel like you’re managing.

Blair:

2020 helped a little bit because everybody understood.

Nicole:
Everybody got the experience.

Morgan:

2020 allowed me to also say I’m going to stop apologizing that my kids are in the back.

Morgan:

I’m not going to apologize and I don’t want you to apologize.

Nicole:

And grace. Also, I think more people understood especially, and I’m just going to say it out loud, the high, big wig, fancy pants who had, like, the C suite places and never had to work from home, but they all had nice offices and all of a sudden they work from the office and they’re like, I can hear my kids, is it always this loud here. What do you mean? The landscapers come every Tuesday. I’m like, you had no idea all the stuff mom was doing.

Blair:
Because she does nothing.

Nicole:
Because she does nothing all day. And now you’re like, I can’t even get through one call. What do you think it’s like for me? And I’m running the side hustle.

Blair:

Exactly.

Nicole:

This is the truth of it. So you’re understanding that balance right now, but you’re doing it!

Morgan:

They are going to grandparents for about a month.

Nicole:

Can I send mine too? I know how much capacity does grandparents have?

Morgan:

And I’m also, of course, blended family. So my oldest is going with her dad for the month and I’m about to live a primetime summer, is what I call it. Not a hot girls summer.

Nicole:

I don’t know. It might get a little hot at the end. I don’t know.

Morgan:

We still cute.

Nicole:

Yeah, we still can classy, elegant. Yeah. Effective, productive.

Morgan:

Yeah, all the things. But I’m 30 plus.

Nicole:

Yes. I mean, listen, that’s brand new, 30 is the new 20. Because I see some of these six year olds. I think Halle Berry is like 57. She’s out there having babies, looking better than she did when she was younger.

Blair:

Age isn’t what I thought it was younger.

Nicole:

Not even what it was. When I look back, just a little factoid, because everyone knows I’m like this. I Google the ages of the Golden Girls or like, what their characters are supposed to be. I’m not kidding. I think Sophia was supposed to be like 65, but when you look at them now, they look to me, they look like they’re 80 something. Eighties the characters were supposed to be like 63 and I’m just like, this is not even so 30 is not what it used to be.

Blair:

It’s not what he looked about 60 back in the day too.

Nicole:

It sure did. Not anymore. So all that being said, it sounds like you are primed and ready for make it happen. And then, Blair, what do you have going on? I’ve got a feeling you’re about to do the most? I don’t know. Me and Morgan might have to tackle you.

Blair:

What are you trying to do? My parents do not have the capacity, so they took one at a time.

Nicole:

Okay. It still helps. People don’t know. Bless aunties. Just take some, just take you know what I mean?

Blair:

So they took my son for two weeks and then in August they’ll take my daughter. But it’s been nice because I put them in camp during the summer, so they’re home schooled during the school year. And so I just hear them all day.

Nicole:

Yes, it’s a real thing. And the talking. Yeah, you know what I mean? They have all the things they want to tell you.

Blair:

Well, I don’t like 2020 came…

Nicole:

You still hear them? Yeah. First of all, can we just say bless the teachers. Bless educators. We love you, you’re amazing. We could not do without you. Bless the aunties, the grandparents. It takes a village for real. However, sometimes I don’t even want any interaction.

Blair:

I don’t know how my teacher doesn’t quit, honestly, because I would have quit.

Nicole:

And all the same age kindergarten teachers, you want a room full of six year olds and then you go home to your own. What?

Blair:

It’s just a different energy. You’re hardwired for it. They’re in camp and we do our work, but I watch TV. I read like five books in five days last week. That’s my most. I love to read.

Nicole:

Yeah, I know. All the mamas right now are like, blair is something different. You are different.

Morgan:

She is insane.

Nicole:

You are cut different. I am not like this.

Morgan:

She is insane.

Nicole:

I get a pocket of time and I’m like, okay, so let’s see. Will I start with ice cream or am I going to work my way to chips? You know what, girl? Both.

Blair:

You put on the audiobook and then you go to the freezer!

Nicole:

I drive in silence. I want silence. I’m like, I just need space to just mind my own thoughts. Mindless like just nothingness. I want to be productive, but I’m also trying to really recalibrate the appropriateness that I’ve talked about a lot on this show. My upbringing is one that women are meant to be productive in the world. That is our job is to solely be like I am truly proverbial. I can mend my own clothes, I can grow my own food, I can manage that, I can do all the things but should I? You know what I mean? Like, all the time, constantly, nonstop, without help? I don’t know about all that. It’s a balance. So I have all the skills, and I’m ready to employ them for my family. But at times, I rest and I just receive what is also in proverbs. My family celebrating and telling me how wonderful I am and how great. I just want to lay back. You all bring up hearts. Bring me cheese. I earned it. I love it. But Blair, I love hearing that. I love hearing that you’re able to get to the never-ending list of the me things, like the two lists and all that fun. So sounds like a good summer of Momming Actually. I love that.

Morgan:
I see what you did there?

Nicole:

So where can we find you? What can we do to keep listening in on this relationship that you guys have and learn? Where can we learn more about you?

Blair:

Well, you can check us out on YouTube. That’s the main place to see the full visual because there’s a visual podcast.

Nicole:

And that is honestly, God says, use all your gifts and the way y’all looks, ladies. Visual podcast. Yes.

Blair:

So, yes, YouTube is where you can see the full visual podcast, but we are on all audio podcast platforms. Anywhere you listen to your podcast, we are there. We are on Instagram and everywhere you look for us, just at Moms Actually. We try to keep it easy for you.

Nicole:

Yeah, perfect. That’s the way to do it. That’s good branding. You all listen, follow, catch up, comment below what you love. Put it in the review. All the details are in the show notes. Ladies, thank you so much for being here. And I can’t wait to hang with you while you’re in LA!

Morgan:

Very excited. Thank you so much for having us.

Blair:

Yes, thank you!

Nicole:

Hey, friends. It is officially summertime. I have kids at home, and the older ones are popping in and out, and the little one is in summer camp. A real blessing. I do not minimize the financial privilege of being able to continue to send my child away for several days of the week. So I just wanted to say to all the mamas and sisters and aunties and everyone pitching in to help take care of these babies, bless it, because I think we’re about, like, one or two weeks in and they’re all bored. So I’m just letting you know I’m in it with you. But I’m still excited summer is here because I’m hoping that we can fit in vacations, and I do love having that extra family time, and I’m hoping everything finds you well.

Now, I was driving in to have this chat with you today, and I was thinking, gosh, what is it that I think has been one of the most transformative things that I’ve done in the past year. And I mean transformative in, I tell you about my tactical stuff, starting my business or launching this product or writing my book, but I also want to make sure I’m bringing to you belief systems and ideas and lessons that I’ve actively learned through experiences that I really think are shaping how I’m doing things differently in the future. And when I tell you this single thought process and decision, because I’m holding firm to it, has made me more money. It has improved my contracts, meaning deals that I write are more on terms that align with my life. It has improved my relationships. And I got to tell you, I’m still not even doing it perfectly. So this is one that you’re going to want to lean in on because I guarantee that you’re likely doing it, and I guarantee that if you stop, it’ll change everything.

So I have officially decided as of, gosh, maybe two years ago, maybe a year and a half ago, that I was going to stop explaining myself and over-apologizing. Now, you’ve already heard it. I’m sure there are popular books out there talking about not apologizing. There’s tons of scientific case study, data, all these things where people talk about how women have an inclination to over-apologize. We put it in our emails. We even preface very reasonable requests like, oh, sorry, Jim, didn’t mean to bother you, but, oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to. Or I was about to do this just, oh, my bad. We’re always kind of squeezing in apologies, and there’s tons of data around how that is diminishing to our character. It’s something that in the workplace can actually affect how people see you. And frankly, it’s the byproduct of society, right? Society telling us that we have to fit in and be careful and be demure and be meek and be humble. And that we need to make ourselves small in places and we can’t take up space.

So we have a lot of data around how that is not good. And if you are hearing it for the first time, I hope that data also lets you know that this is something you can stop.

Okay, so you’ve heard tons of people talking about how you don’t want to over apologize, particularly as a woman or a marginalized person, that it’s something that really does put you at a disadvantage in the workplace and life in your relationship. So we know that we don’t want to do that. There’s tons of data.

But when I tell you so many of us over-explain ourselves or feel required to explain ourselves in circumstances where it’s not required. Let me tell you a little bit more about what that means. It means that if we come to a decision that we know we feel good about or we come to a decision that we know is backed by data or results or we are wanting to enter a new space and we know that we belong there and we’ve earned it. A lot of us feel the need and when I say us, I mean women and marginalized people and high achievers, feel the need to explain why we deserve to be in that position or speaking on that platform or presenting ourselves as such.

And I want to let you know that for me in particular, I realized that this came from a pretty traumatic childhood. And I do talk about this a lot in my book. It’s available for presale now. It’s called Nothing Is Missing by Nicole Walters. You can get it on Amazon, you can get it in Barnes and Noble. I’m super excited to get this book in your hand. It’s my memoir, but for the first time anywhere I talk a lot about my childhood. And you’ve heard me saying glimpses where I mentioned that I grew up a child of immigrants, I’m first generation Ghanian American and that my parents were very strict.

And a lot of times, whether it’s on Instagram, if you follow me over there at Nicole Walters or on our TV show even, I used to talk about the funny side of having African parents. Having them say, oh, you know, you can work harder, or you can always go back to school, or you can be lawyer, just like I always do their accent. We have jokes around it or my mom calling me, and she still does to this day. My mom calling me and saying, it’s not too late for you to have twins. And God gave me vision that you will have twin boys and I just want you to know there’s still time, like all these things, right. And it’s true. My parents were very much that, right? They are very much funny in some of the cultural norms that they are bringing to raising an American child in so many respects.

But I talk about my childhood also being traumatic because it’s difficult. And I think a lot of you can relate to this just by generation alone, being raised with certain generational pressures from the current society you live in or the current cultural expectations you live in that your parents can’t understand or align with. That coupled with, right, so it wasn’t just, oh, Mom, I want to go to the mall, or I want to watch this show. My parents are like, Are you kidding me? Who does that? But it was also things like my dad having severe anxiety and completely unchecked. And my father was also a narcissist and had a lot of pressures and expectations around what he wanted and how he looked and how he was presented that he wanted to enact through his children and the ways which, again, I detail in the book. And it really does deserve words and pages and not just a few moments on a podcast, which is why I haven’t talked about it elsewhere, but that really shaped a lot of the way that he interacted with me. I talk about in the book and I talk about it in life, but my relationship with my father also really dictated a lot of the men that were in my life until I had decades of therapy.

So all that being said, what happens when you’re raised in an environment where there’s a strong authoritarian figure or a parent that you are not comfortable trusting and for various reasons, or if you are in an environment where you’ve had to trust yourself a lot and pave your own way and just be out on your own, which, again, I think a lot of women and marginalized people can really relate to, you find yourself… Oh, oh and if you’ve had to enter spaces where you don’t see people who look like you and I mean women and being black or brown or just otherwise marginalized. 

A lot of times when we have entered into these spaces or had to navigate new rooms or had to face difficult, powerful, or even assumed power, authoritarian figures. We’ve had to explain why we’re there. And I have to tell you, just because you had to do it doesn’t mean that it was warranted. And having had the opportunity, for those of you who’ve kept up with me, I’ve worked in major corporations. I have had the blessing, if you will, of being in boardrooms where billions of dollars have been transferred and moved around. And when I tell you people with money having been the 1% and having been extremely impoverished, I’ve been on both sides.

One of the number one things I noticed being a poor girl in this rich life, I was like, oh, rich people don’t explain themselves at all. At all. It’s the strangest thing. And you all know our relationship, right? I am your Target-wearing, cheese-eaten, regular girlfriend. It doesn’t matter how much money I have in the bank account or how many commas I have. I will always be a thrifter. I always tell my kids, like, nah, you all got to work. You guys know how I am, right? If you come over, I’m like, fix yourself a sandwich, that sort of thing.

But because of the work that I’ve done and because of some of the things that I’ve accomplished, I’ve been really blessed to get vision into a lifestyle that I just, I don’t think I ever would have imagined growing up, even though I’ve worked to achieve it. And being in places like the country clubs and the private jets and the exclusive member-only clubs and backstage and green rooms and boardrooms and private homes, and I’ve been witness to a lot of conversations around tables.

And I will always tell you all the lessons I’m learning from those things because, frankly, you deserve to know them, and they’re life changing. And a lot of the things that I’ve noticed when I enter these wealthy spaces is that they’re practicing behaviors that you can absolutely practice whether or not you have their bank accounts. And one of which is this not explaining. They act with a confidence, “they” meaning the wealthy, the powerful, the accomplished, the non marginalized, the people who are in positions to make decisions. I mean, they really do move with the confidence that frankly, sometimes is not warranted.

You all know that we all have a boss. We all have a Jimathon who likes to speak on things that they may not be qualified to speak on, but everybody be like, oh, Jimathon’s great in the office, but we all know he’s trash, and you do his work anyways. But a lot of these people will be fairly mediocre, and they will speak with a confidence like, oh yeah, that’s definitely what you want to do. Oh, yes, that’s surely how it needs to go. Or, no, I will not permit that, and they will not explain themselves afterwards.

I realized that 90% of negotiations of getting what you want in contracts, of getting paid what you deserve is approaching it with a posture of that is what I deserve. And you would be absolutely absurd to ask me to explain why that is. And it’s not confidence, it’s not just confidence, it’s almost an internal knowingness that translates in a way where people are just kind of like okay. So here’s how this sort of manifests in my life, right? This is how I’m seeing this show up. When I go into contract negotiations before I enter them, right? Whether it’s for a book deal or a TV show deal because I live in LA, so there’s always multiple things going. If you guys don’t know that TV show deals are the type of thing where it can take like four years till it comes to fruition.

But I mean I signed a several season deal with a major streaming network and so we’re working on that process but it’s the type of thing that could take like four years before you actually see anything on TV if it even happens. It’s crazy. But going into deals like that, what I’ve learned is that I decide before the opportunity shows up what it will take for me to say yes, y’all, that’s free. That’s where you are right now. So I’m not even kidding. Literally I’m like in order for me to do TV of this style, so for instance, one thing that I know that I am in this present season fairly unlikely to embrace would be doing another family style reality show, right? I may be open to a couple show, I don’t know but I just am thoroughly over having cameras in my home following my family. A lot of that has to do with the fact that my littles are in that weird awkward phase. My olders are dating and building serious relationships and it’s just kind of a strange time to be documenting all that for them and also just my relationship is fairly new so I’d like to give that a little bit of time to settle in and feel really good.

I mean it feels good but you know what I mean? So it’s just one of those things where I already know that’s kind of how I feel. BUT, and this is also another thing I learned from the wealthy everything does have a price or a context where it can work.

So I already decided sitting down, like because I am in LA and there are always opportunities and my agent may bring me anything. What would it look like for it to work for me? What would it look like for me to do a family reality show? Would I need to have a clear cut schedule? Would I need to be able to choose who my showrunner and executive producer are? Would it need to be on a certain network? How much would I need to pay and how long would a season be? What would it look like for me to renew? Would we still film in my house or would we have to be offset?

And fortunately, I can draw from all my TV making history and be able to say, okay, well, these are some things I know are typical, but then I’m also able to add to it things that, frankly, I don’t even know if someone would say yes to. But in order for me to move, this is what it would look like. And for you all, I’m not even kidding, it can be like, well, if I’m going to do it, I just need to know that we’ll start shooting at 06:00 AM and finish by three. It may or may not happen, but you can have that list.

So the point being that I am already making a list and I think some of you may believe in manifestation or using affirmative talk to make things come to realization. All that I don’t really consider it that, to me it really is taking a clear cut awareness of what your needs are so that when you enter your bargaining position, you are able to remain firm to that because you don’t have to explain why something is, but you definitely need to know what it is you want. So I’ll never go back and forth with the network on the fact that it’s really important to me to put my daughter in bed by 7:30 because that’s part of our bedtime routine and I really want to make sure that she’s comfortable in her day and she gets grouchy if she stays up past nine. Why do I have to explain that to you? I am her mom. This is what’s required. You have the thing that you want as an outcome. I’m telling you, this is how it can happen and we can meet your need. If you’re unable to do that, then that’s what that is.

When I tell you, you will so deeply weaken your position if you feel the need to over explain where you are. So the same thing applies with your feelings and your emotions. Catch this one. How many of you, whenever you are wanting to make a decision, your relationship, where you’re like, gosh, I really want to take the kids on vacation, or I really want to enroll them in this school. Outside of just sort of illustrating these are the points and bullet points of why I think it’s a good idea, but I also feel like it would be really good for this. I really feel like it’d be good for this. It’s almost like the oversell, where it’s like I’m going into the car dealership. I know I need a car. I need a car that does these things and has these features and this is my price point. But then they’re showing me every single car and they’re trying to buy me up and it’s almost like you’re overdoing it because I’m going to get a car today. but now you’re doing the most. A lot of us do that in our relationships, and we also do that in relation to our feelings. It’s also okay to just say, like, all right, we’re going to keep it all the way real.

This was a huge issue for me in my previous relationship, and when I say a huge issue for me, I don’t mean in relation to, this isn’t a juicy gossip moment, right? This isn’t me, like, trashing my relationship or anything like that, because I don’t do that, and I don’t do that here, and I don’t have that type of feedback regarding my ex. That’s not something I ever want to do. I want to treat that relationship with tact and with grace, if for nothing else but who I am and how I want to show up in the world.

But what I can say is that I will speak all day about things I did wrong, right? Things that I had to grow from and things I had to learn from. And over explaining is one of them. I surely would spend a lot of time explaining if we either had a disagreement or if there was something that I had managed to gain the confidence to really speak on, that I felt I needed changed or that I needed help with or that was a need for me.

And I would just spend so much time explaining why I felt like that need was valid and why I felt like it was important for my partner to meet me in this fashion or all the different elements of how if this thing could be solved or this thing could be helped, that it would change the course of our lives or it would benefit both of us or that it would help the kids. And I would just spend so much time just trying to argue my case. To frankly prove why I deserved love and in a certain way and proved how it would help both of us.

And what’s interesting is twofold. One, I’m in a relationship now where I don’t have to do that, and it’s great because I’ve done a lot of therapeutic work to realize that. One, if you feel like the need to do that, if you find yourself over-explaining around certain subject matters, it’s probably a pretty good sign that something’s not a fit there in general, right? That’s just like sign number one.

But two, it’s exhausting, right? It tires you out in the relationship, whether it’s with a friend that you’re trying to constantly explain boundaries or in a relationship where you’re trying to constantly explain boundaries. That’s just exhausting. It means you’re not enjoying the relationship. It means you’re not enjoying your partner. It means that you’re trying to convince someone to love or treat you in a way that you already deserve to be treated or that you may have confusion around your own worth and all of that is no good.

But the other thing that happens is there’s a power shift, right? Explaining yourself is something that you do to an authority figure. If a parent asks you why’d you do that, where are you going? A teacher asking you, a boss asking you. So when you enter that dynamic into a relationship, into a partnership, it is a power play. And I do want to say just a quick caveat here, quick disclaimer. I am super aware that sometimes when this behavior happens, it may be happening because there is an abusive dynamic in the relationship or there may be a mental health issue in the relationship, or there may be some other traumatic factor where it’s not just you having the nature of over-explaining, right? But that person really is manipulating the situation which is making that occur. So I am not speaking to that specifically. What I’m talking about is when we’re bringing habits in that are learned from our childhood or bringing habits in that are maybe not applicable in that new relationship.

So I found myself doing this at times in advance of what’s required in my current relationship. Where something will occur and then I’m like, so I’m really sorry, but here’s the reason why I did that. And I swear that it was for a good reason and this is the purpose. And Alex will literally look at me and just be like, babe, I trust you. Like it’s fine. And I’ll realize, oh my gosh, I was triggered, basically. And I was doing the thing that I tried to do for years as a safety mechanism with my father and in previous relationships. And it just doesn’t belong here, it’s not required. 

But, you know, in sort of being in this relationship and really exploring, you know, these protective behaviors that I do, you know, kind of knee jerk behaviors whenever I’m nervous about being in the room or nervous about, you know, a big deal, or nervous about a new space, really seeing where else it exists. And I found that, oh my gosh, I had to be careful to not do that in contracts. I don’t need to explain, well, you should pay me this. And here are the reasons why when they’re seeking you out to be signed for.

And there is a difference between sort of explaining the service that you offer, explaining the value around the money in that sort of context. But yeah, explaining just like your sheer worth is just something that I’m not interested in doing it. And call it being a woman who is of a certain age. You can Google it if you want to know, but I just am at that place where it’s just not going to happen. And it’s funny because I remember growing up and hearing the aunties talk about it and seeing the mamas being like, I’m not going to explain myself to you.

Or I think that one thing we always joke about. If you see the memes, you’ll see these older women who will just be really matter of fact and be like, no, I’m not going to do it. Or we’ll see certain celebrities who’ve earned a certain level in status of accolade where they’re just like, no, it’s just a no, and I’m not going to explain why it’s a no. And it’s almost offensive of you to ask me. And I think that sometimes there’s an inclination to label these people as being maybe stuck up or label these people as thinking that they’re better than or thinking that they’ve elevated to a place where it’s like, oh, I’m just too good to say certain things. And I really am hoping that what you’re hearing from me now is that that’s not what it means about you. If you are confident and you know your own worth and you’re aware that in some scenarios, what I’m asking for is not just the bare minimum, but it is literally what I deserve, the last thing I’m going to do is explain my worth.

This actually came up a lot during the gosh, what do we call it now? The racial reconciliation of 2020? I don’t even know. But it was around the time that the world witnessed George Floyd’s murder, and there was a lot of different viewpoints that were entering those conversations in a public sphere for the first time, I should say in a unified public sphere for the first time, because these conversations have always been happening, but just not everybody was listening. But in these conversations, one talk track that was occurring was people saying, look, I should not have to explain that as a black person that I matter. It’s almost offensive and laughable, if you will, that someone would really expect me to explain why my sheer existence has worth.

And there was definitely a segment of people and this is not a judgment around that, but I’m just explaining a talk track that some may not have been aware of, but there was a segment of people who were like, look, I’m not even going to expend the emotional labor to explain the different reasons why my life is valid and the different reasons why my opinion is valid and my work is valid and my existence is valid. I have a right to breathe, and that is not something that I need to litigate and go back and forth on in the comments of social media, let alone on any public platform, because I exist and that’s enough.

And I want to tell you, I find that standpoint incredibly, incredibly empowering. And while I’ve always been a grace-filled conversationalist, I really do sympathize and I’m highly compassionate to our individual growth in understanding around our relationship. So I like to talk and I’m okay doing it so it doesn’t feel like the same weight of emotional labor. But I respect people’s right for that stance. I also really respect the standpoint of I am not going to explain myself around the bare minimum that I deserve.

And so in sharing this with you as we have navigated what it looks like to start over in life and starting over by nature means leaving behind and stepping into something new. I just really hope that you recognize that it’s not just about building healthy boundaries and finding great habits and making more money and building out new relationships. I mean, all these things are true and it is a long list of things that you have to do when you’re starting over. But I also want to let you know it’s about what you leave behind.

And leave behind the apology written emails, and instant deference of compliments, oh, thanks, but I have this old thing, let’s leave all that behind. You don’t have to self-deprecate all the time. Right? But also let’s leave behind the need to explain the bare minimum around what we deserve. We should be insisting on it and we should simply just stay still and make good eye contact until we receive it because we deserve it and know and trust that if someone doesn’t want to give it to us, that doesn’t say anything about us or what we deserve.

And it’s really my hope that you look in the coming week, in the coming months, at different contracts or opportunities or relationships that you have and you ask yourself, do I feel like I’m constantly juggling for positioning here? Because I have to explain why I’m worth spending time with or why I’m worth honoring and respecting and why this boundary needs affirmed and then asking yourself if maybe you just don’t want to use any more energy to do that.

Especially as we’re chasing after these kids for the summer and especially as we’re trying to grow, our energy is so valuable. I talked about that last week with some of my recent health diagnoses. I’m really doing my very best to be intentional about where I spend my energy and you know where I’m not spending it anymore? Explaining who I am, why I’m worth it and what I deserve. And friend, I don’t want you to do that either.

Nicole:

Hey, friends. So as you well know, I have very strategic chats whenever we come here today. And I only bring my closest friends in. And I know that you have all had so many questions about health and weight management and where to start and how that feels. And you’ve seen me take my journey so I brought in the person to talk to, not just because of her wide range of knowledge, but also because of her approach to taking care of yourself as a whole.

And so for that reason, I’m super excited. I have my dear friend Shira Barlow in here. She is the podcast host of Good Instincts. She is the author of The Food Therapist and I mean, you can find her all over the net. You have to follow her. But right now, let’s just get into it. Shira, thank you so much for being here.

Shira:

Thank you so much.

Nicole:

So I’m just going to dive right in.

Shira:

Yeah, please.

Nicole:

Okay. The reason why I love you and your approach to all things food is because you talk about being a food therapist even though you have all the paperworks and degrees and all that stuff too, because that’s important also. But tell me more about that concept that mindset around food.

Shira:

Ya know, I did go the whole clinical route. I did a residency at Mount Sinai, and I studied organic chemistry and biochem and all that stuff. And when I was at the hospital and I was finishing up, I really had a very clear idea of how to counsel people in terms of food. And then what happened is I would meet with people, I started a private practice, I would meet with people. And what I realized is that there was a gap between people’s intentions and people’s actions. People knew what to do. They knew that they should be eating more thoughtfully, whatever that means at this point, but they weren’t actually doing those things on a day to day basis.

And so it became so much more about what those roadblocks were and how to sidestep them and all of that. It became about food therapy. So it was funny because I had all of the food background, but I needed to kind of understand how to help people work through those issues that they didn’t in some cases really knew existed. And so that’s how it started.

Nicole:

That’s so, so good because I think that just to tie it in, not just for me, but for everyone else. How many of us have a profession where we realize people will come in and say, I know what to do, but it’s not working. Or I know what to do, but I don’t know how to do it exactly. And you’re like, oh girl, you don’t understand that. It’s between the ears. So I’ll have people come in for business consulting and they’re like, well, I’ve taken all the classes, I’ve done all the things, but I just don’t know. And I’m like, well, if you know all the answers, then what is the real issue? Do you not believe you can? Because sometimes that’s what it is.

Shira:

Completely. And it’s interesting. I think that what I realized is that so many people think that it comes down to them just not having the ability. They’re like, oh, I just don’t have willpower, I just can’t do it. But in reality, it’s so much more complicated than that. It’s kind of like the pull down of that old Facebook relationship status, it’s complicated. Because food is so much more than just fuel. And I think kind of looking into that relationship a bit more and it is a relationship with food and figuring out what your personal roadblocks and knowing that those may always exist. It’s just about kind of knowing, and we talked about this offline a little bit, having that self knowledge to know what your personal roadblocks are so that you can have a roadmap to working around them.

Nicole:

That’s so good. I think that what I personally love about your work and the way you approach it is that there’s this element, and we talk about this on the podcast all the time, of sort of grace and kindness towards self. You really are big on this relationship being sort of rewritten as a positive one versus beating yourself up on this journey towards whatever health goal you may have or health outcome you need.

So can you talk to us a little bit about that? What have you seen that some of us may be like ding ding ding, that’s me too, in the way that we talk to ourselves about food in relation to our bodies?

Shira:

Completely. I think so many people worry that if we are too kind to ourselves, we won’t get anywhere. That being kind of that drill sergeant, super mean, super harsh, speaking to ourselves that way, that’s going to be the thing that gets us there. But the problem is that feelings of shame and inadequacy actually drive cortisol, the stress hormone, and then in some cases, like for instance, a lot of people will do this thing called eat, repent, repeat.

Nicole:

Oh, oh, oh! I want to make sure I’m absorbing this. So eat, repent, repeat.

Shira:

So say you’ll eat something and let’s say you were stressed and busy and it wasn’t really actually something you really necessarily wanted. Maybe you went a little overboard with it.

Nicole:

Me eating sprinkles in like five minutes eating four cupcakes. Sure.

Shira:

Yeah, exactly. And now in theory if what you did was I didn’t intend to eat that much, what’s going on for me right now? Well, I didn’t eat a great lunch. I went into this meeting. Now I’m here. I’m feeling so stressed about X, Y and Z with kids in school and home. So how can I sidestep in the future? And in some cases, it’s a matter of self-regulation and ways that you can kind of slow the nervous system, pay more attention to what you’re eating while you’re eating. 

And in some cases, it’s how do you bypass willpower altogether in order to make a decision ahead of time? Like, you know what? I know I’m heading into this thing and that thing I think I’m going to bring, there’s a brand called who with chocolate that’s like non refined sugar, whatever. It’s like my whatever treat of choice, whatever, having that in your bag and be like, you know what, I know that I’m going to want something, so why don’t I have this? But then at least I know it’s this and then I’m not.

So the problem is we don’t kind of do that like, OOH, in a really non judgmental way, what was going on for me in that moment? How do I?

Nicole:
We don’t even know how to do that!

Shira:

Exactly.

Nicole:

And this is the therapy portion of it, of the approach towards food. So for those of I talk about therapy all the time. For those of you all who are in therapy or considering therapy, this is actually really in alignment with therapy. It’s not that you’re going in there to find out what’s wrong with you and how to fix it. It’s a lot of it is learning what your triggers triggers exactly how they show up. Because if you can at least understand what your triggers are, because if you’re in a marriage, sometimes your triggers your spouse, and so you got to get rid of that trigger. We can’t always fix and figure out what it is, but we can’t build around it.

Shira:

Completely. To go back to it, I think that a lot of people, the eat, repent, repeat cycle. What we don’t do is that where we’re like, oh, we look at it in a really non-judgmental way, like, wonder what was going on. How do I kind of sidestep in that future? No, instead we’re like, Why did you do that? I’m so mad at myself.

Nicole:

So we do that reflective process, but we’re mean about it.

Shira:

We’re mean about it. And then those feelings of shame and inadequacy and the whole thing spike cortisol spike stress. And then we end up being kind of like, I don’t know if I can swear on here, but I wanted.

Nicole:

Yeah, I won’t do it again.

Shira:

Why even bother?

Nicole:

I’m going to do it again. Eff it.

Shira:

Exactly. It doesn’t even matter. And now I may as well just go off the deep end.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Shira:

So eat, repent, repeat is that cycle. I think everyone can relate to that because it’s like we all do it. And so I think, again, we worry that if we’re too self-compassionate, we won’t get anywhere, but it’s really quite the opposite. And I’ve seen that again and again and again.

Nicole:

It’s so valuable. I know that I’ve shared a little bit about my journey on here before, and the way that I’ve been able to sustain a lot of my loss is, one, I did everything my doctor told me, right? So monitoring the right numbers, engaging in the right experts, and again, I say this on every platform whenever I do. It was a privilege financially to be able to do that, and I don’t miss that. But the mindset work is something that I’ve had to continue to do.

And it’s true. I mean, during the pandemic, I remember at the top of the pandemic saying to myself, girl, you actually have the time to work out every day. You have all the resources, you have a peloton like, girl, get to it. And then I finally said to myself, there are too many things going on right now. You will gain weight in the season, and that’s okay. If you need to feel comfortable having some fudge today, because that is the comfort item that is available to you in this home, and you can’t travel, then eat your fudge, girl.

Shira:

When you and I connected in Austin originally, I remember you telling me about this and I thought it was really beautiful because I talk about it with my clients all the time. Where especially I see it a lot when people are going on vacation or people are about to have Thanksgiving or something like that. I always am like, you can play it a bunch of different ways as long as you’re being honest about it. So what I don’t want, and a lot of people do, are what we call it’s loopholes and moral licensing.

Nicole:

Let’s talk about and these are all therapy terms, y’all?

Shira:

Exactly.

Nicole:

None of this stuff is food stuff. We’re not talking about intermittent fasting and keto, which is what everyone’s always looking for. What is the secret recipe? No, we’re talking about things that are all you all the time here. If you’re doing loopholes and all these sorts of moral bargaining and whatever, you’re likely doing them in your relationships too.

Shira:

This is really good.

Nicole:

So unpack this.

Shira:

So this is what I’m talking about when it comes to loopholes and moral licensing, it’s like it doesn’t count. It’s the summer, it doesn’t count, it’s the weekend, or I really deserve this, I’ve been so good, or I’ve been so good, I deserve to be bad.

What I’m not villainizing is that you deserve pleasure, you deserve a treat. What the issue is, is when we attach ethics to it, because then you’re outside of reality. It’s like, girl, everything counts. It’s just that pleasure. I want people to indulge consciously.

Nicole:

Yes.

Shira:

So if you want to really not think about anything over Thanksgiving or whatever, you may come back from Thanksgiving feeling a little different than you do now. And if you’re okay with that, I’m okay with that, and we’ll just get back to it in January or whatever. But I think that when people do it in this way of like, oh, I can do this, it doesn’t count. It’s like, everything counts. And that’s why I come from this place in my practice where we’re grown ups, everything is available to us. Not everything could be worth it if this is your goal, depending on your goal. But I think it’s really healthy when someone’s, like, talk about seasonality, in this season that I’m in right now, I can’t make this a priority.

Nicole:

This is what I’ve got.

Shira:

Because then you don’t feel like a failure when you actually gain or are ten steps behind where you were.

Nicole:
Sometimes you feel like a success. Post pandemic, I was like, I only gained 22 pounds. Good job. Because somewhere in there, you must have exercised an amount of awareness around your fudge consumption that you did not intend to. Because I gave myself a free pass, I was like, this is the thing I’m not going to worry about, because we’re trying to stay alive. You are not going to sit here and worry about fudge, girl, eat your fudge and keep it pushing. And so when I came out of it, I was like, oh, not that bad, Nicole. So you know what you got to do? Get back to it.

Shira:

Yeah. I think that the reality is it was incredibly honest, and I think that when we indulge from a place of not being in reality, and then our gap between what we want and what we’re doing day to day gets farther and farther away from us, we feel it’s, like, scary. And then we feel like, oh, I don’t have willpower. I don’t have it in me. Exactly. You weren’t that motivated. It’s different. And I talk about that a lot in my practice because people will be like, I’m feeling so lazy, and whatever. I’m like, were you being lazier, or was this just not able to be a priority?

Nicole:

Were you just tired? Which is allowed. I think that what I love about the language you’re calling out that I am constantly trying to reprogram in myself is these absolutes of, I don’t have willpower, I am lazy. Who is telling you you are these things? Aren’t we all lazy sometimes? I’m laziest when I am tired after working very hard. So lazy is not bad. It is an appropriate response to the amount of work I put in. Good job being lazy. But saying things like, I’m lazy or I don’t have willpower is bananas because now you’re telling yourself you’re this thing that prevents you from actually being what you really are.

Shira:

Totally. And the interesting thing about willpower, which is now kind of a dirty word.

Nicole:

It is, sure, in the industry.

Shira:

The interesting thing about it is that there’s all this research that showed people used to think it was a personality trait. Some people had willpower and some people didn’t. But what we know now is that it is a limited resource, and we pull from it from all different things, not just food things. We pull from it for I’ll give you an example for my own life. Not yelling at your child when they’re being crazy, not honking at people on the road when they’re like, whatever, paying your taxes, doing all the things that are like adult things that you have to do that you don’t really want to do. You’re foregoing, like, what you actually want to go for, what you kind of have to go do. 

And so I think anytime you’re doing that, you’re pulling from that same willpower well, and that’s why at the end of the day, after you put your kids to sleep and you did all your work and all your emails, it’s kind of hard not to raid the pantry.

And so I think that then people think that they don’t have willpower when in reality, they’re just all out of willpower. And there are ways to combat that. You can come at it a couple of different ways, but just being honest and being like, oh, wow, so maybe changing that self thought of being like, oh, I am this, I am this. It’s like, no, you’re tired and you’re stressed. There are ways around that you can get out of that. But first things first, don’t be unkind in that way.

Nicole:

That’s so good, because even when you were saying that, I was thinking about, I mean, you even see the memes about how top of the day, I’m eating my salad, I’m working out, I’m doing all my things, by end of the day, I’m eating a half a piece of cake, and all these things.

Shira:

That willpower well ran dry.

Nicole:

It was just empty. And the idea that it’s like, oh, I have willpower, I just ran out by the end of the day because I used it all on important things exactly. Is really, really powerful.

Shira:

And obviously, for anyone that’s listening, it’s kind of like I’m sure there are people like, oh, my God, that’s me, too. I feel like that there are a couple of ways around that, and I really focus on two. The first is we talk a ton about mindfulness, which it’s kind of an eye roll at this moment, because it’s like, we know we have to be more mindful. How do we do that without moving to an ashram for like, six months?

Nicole:

Which means we’re moving everything else. How do I be more mindful without getting rid of my kids, getting rid of my bills, getting rid of my house?

Shira:

Exactly. So a part of it is how do you pay attention to what you’re eating while you’re eating? Well, one really easy way to do that is to eat with your nondominant hand.

Nicole:

I’ve heard these little things like eat with chopsticks. Are these, like, real things?

Shira:

Of course it is, because it’s like, you know when you’re driving along a long road and you’re kind of like, cruise control it, and then you’re kind of like, maybe a little tired, maybe a little distracted, whatever, and all of a sudden that, do you need coffee light comes on, you’re kind of like, boom, it perks you right up. What happens is we all go through these phases. We’re kind of auto.

Nicole:

Auto piloting.

Shira:

Autopilot. Yeah. And so it kind of helps us pay anything you can do to pay more attention to eating while you’re eating. Another thing that I talk about a lot is I think a lot of people, it’s like, eat when you’re hungry, stop when you’re full. That’s really good advice. But what if you’re not really sure?

Nicole:
Yeah!

Shira:

And I think a lot of people aren’t.

Nicole:
Or if it’s really good, we might listen, guys, I literally have a guy who’s, like, I am announcing that I am full. This is so good. I will continue to eat.

Shira:
Yes. And there are those moments where you’re consciously kind of in that same way. But I think a lot of people know what it feels like to be hungry, and people know what it feels like to be overly stuffed in a non-judgmental way. But if you can access that and be like, when was the last time I was overly stuffed? And it didn’t feel great, again, in a non-judgmental way. When was last time? At breakfast maybe like, before breakfast, you were really hungry.

But I think a lot of people don’t know what it means to feel like 25. Check in at 25%. What does it mean to be, like, 50% and 75%? Just to get back into understanding what those hunger cues are. So that’s one piece of the puzzle that can bypass the need for willpower, which is just engaging the prefrontal cortex, which is the part of the brain that’s the most evolved part of the decider. It’s the decider, but it’s also the part of the brain that is most affected by stress and distractions and all of that. So that makes it hard.

The other thing that you can do to bypass willpower altogether is make some decisions ahead of time, so you don’t even need to rely on willpower.

Nicole:

Oh, I love that. Lighten your mental load.

Shira:

Lighten your mental load in the same way that I think very successful people kind of have a uniform. You and I have talked about this.

Nicole:

We talked about uniforms. I’m like, I need, like, five things in my closet that I know look good, so I can just get up.

Shira:

Exactly. You’re not thinking about it. So it’s like, have you I don’t love the idea of meal prep because it’s kind of like, I don’t know necessarily what I want to eat for dinner.

Nicole:

And it also can feel like another thing I’m going to fail at if I which is not a good feeling.

Shira:

Right. I’m very into this idea of meal assembly. So it’s like, do you have, like, to me, I’ll poach some chicken. Some chicken thighs.

Nicole:

That’s what we do in our house. We just call it, like, top of the week leftover prep.

Shira:

There you go.

Nicole:

It’s like yesterday I made chili chicken stir fry, a thing of rice.

Shira:

Okay, so you’re already crushing meal prep.

Nicole:

I don’t even count that. I didn’t know that was I thought meal prep was the pretty bowls and the oh, no divided up portions or whatever.

Shira:

Oh, no. I mean, you’re crushing it because no, you’re making things ahead of time. I think for a lot of people, for me, it could also just be like, even just like, chopping some things up, like having some things, like parboiled, having some things poached so that you could throw together. Assembly, yes, so make some decisions ahead of time. So if we’re just talking about willpower and how I think a lot of people worry that they don’t have it. Everyone has it. You just might be, like, tapped out.

Nicole:

This alone literally throw money at you.

Shira:

<laughs>

Nicole:

Okay. Shira, because I’m over here. Like, when I tell you the idea of being tapped, because there’s so many overlaps, especially as driven, hardworking women and mamas, the overlap of this in areas of our life. I mean, when you end the day and it’s like, look, I’m putting my kid to sleep and bath time is just stressing me out, and I snapped. You’re not a bad mother. You’re out of your willpower. That typically would keep you from snapping.

There’s so many places where I think we are inclined to beat ourselves up because we want to be our best without realizing that we may be coming from this well of energy, and we’re all out! That’s really good.

Shira:

And I think thinking of ways that you can kind of reconnect back to yourself in a way that’s not Ashrami, but then also thinking of ways that you can bypass it all together, like knowing that at the end of the day, around bath time, it’s really hard. That’s also, coincidentally, the time that children typically start to get, like, wild, crazy, the witching hour. So knowing, like, hey, maybe for like, ten minutes before you get ready for the bath, you’re taking like a mental just like “you got this. It’s about to be a thing.” We’re going to come in with the best energy we can bring in that moment. And it may not be perfect, but we got this. And then afterwards, this is my plan to unwind.

I just interviewed someone amazing who is an art educator, and she talked all about having a creative practice. And I’ve talked about that then in my practice, which is that I think everyone’s looking for a way to downshift after bedtime, after kids bedtime, and to unwind in this way. That’s like having busy hands, but not busy hands because you’re like cleaning the dishes or picking up toys. It’s like focusing on one singular thing in the moment.

Nicole:

This is so good. I don’t know about you all, but this is so like I’m having all the light bulbs right now. It’s so transformative to me because it is about this sort of twofold of one building in grace, building, an awareness building in mindfulness, but that bypassing by shifting that mental load. 

So, truth moment, you all know I keep it all the way real here. I got into like a little sniff, snippet, I don’t know, a snafu, whatever you want to call it, because it wasn’t like a full fledged disagreement with my guy yesterday, but he was like bringing stuff. We hadn’t seen each other. He travels for gigs. It was a weekend. I was with the baby all weekend, like all these things. And then he’s wanting to kind of do the download at the end of the night when we finally had finished everything and I’m over here like, can we put on a mindless movie and zone out?

Shira:

You’re tapped out.

Nicole:

Oh, I’m tapped out and I got snippy where he was like, what’s the password again for the TV? A tiny thing, y’all, I am putting myself out here. It was my fault. I’m sorry. I was the one, I’m the issue. Taylor Swift said it. I’m the problem. It’s me calling out, right? So he asked what the pin number was for the TV and I was like, I already told you. Like, I thought you know everything. I was not nice, I was tired, I was in a mood, like all that. But this morning I was like, I am a terrible girlfriend. I’m awful. But I realized and of course I apologize to all that stuff. We’ll talk about it, whatever. But one of the things I’m going to bring to the table is this concept of maybe the end of the day is not the best time for us to do this. We have flexible schedules. Maybe in the morning is when we’ll do our agenda debrief. What do we need from each other over oatmeal versus at the end of the day when we’re tired and we just should just like veg out and cuddle.

Shira:

I love that.

Nicole:

That is so good. And you know what I’m going to do too, to top into that creative part that you just said on the way home, I’m going to stop and I’m going to pick up an art project e thing, because I’m dreading talking about this because it’s the end of the day and my willpower is all tapped out. But I want to be my best self. I’m going to bring an activity for us to do while we talk about it.

Shira:

That would be so nice.

Nicole:

Because that’ll be like talking our issues over with our nondominant hand. <laughs>

Shira:
Exactly. And it’s a connection. And I think that a lot of times, I mean, what he was trying to download may have been logistical, but it probably was also like, I miss you, I want to connect with you.

Nicole:

For sure.

Shira:

But it makes sense if you’re tapped out. I love it so much because it’s so self aware and it’s like, I want this. I love this person. I want those things too. But I know at the end of the day, I just know myself. At the end of the day, I’m tapped out. I literally just hold me and let’s veg.

Nicole:

Like Vegas was in the space. But it’s also still I mean, again, the things he wants to talk about are valid and they’re important and all that. And I just think that, again, cycling it back to this whole process around learning ourselves and being kind to ourselves and knowing that we’re going to build in areas we’re not going to be great. I do want to ask you, a lot of us echo these similar behaviors when we have areas of challenges. And therapy will tell you it starts when you’re young, right? In relation to food and how we are. Is that where it comes from? Do we learn our initial conversation around food from our parents?

Shira:

Yeah, completely. I mean, I think that what’s really interesting is barring any major developmental stuff.

Nicole:

No major trauma thingies.

Shira:

Kids have the ability to self regulate, which is why you see a three year old sometimes eat like a bite of a cupcake and then put it down and then forget about it. Because if they are physiologically full, they’re not going to continue eating.

Nicole:

Because that even if it’s like sweet, yummy, delicious thing.

Shira:

At a certain age, at around six or seven, we kind of start bypassing that. But before that, we will not eat past the point of being physiological full.

Nicole:

So what happens? Is it just our human mind deciding we want more?

Shira:

No, it’s that we’re socialized to eat because it’s someone’s birthday or I made this for you or other kids don’t have or finish all your food.

Nicole:

Finish all your food. Wow!

Shira:

Or is this a celebration? Or this is I’m so sorry that you had to go to get a shot. Here’s the ice cream cone. And I think about that a lot with my son because it is fun to get treats.

Nicole:

Oh, sure.

Shira:

I remember really specifically, and I’ve written about this, that I remember it was actually when they were still getting tested all the time for COVID. He had to be tested every week in school. And it kind of hit him that I have to do this all the time.

Nicole:

And he was just like, dreading it.

Shira:

Crying and so upset. And I remember they were like, do you. Want a lollipop. But the nurse showed me first to be like, is this okay? And I was like, yeah, but it’s not because you were brave or you weren’t. That doesn’t matter. You can cry if you want to, all of it. Sometimes having a treat is like a fun thing. It wasn’t to soothe him, it was because sometimes you get delicious treats during the day. Enjoy that.

Nicole:

That’s good.

Shira:

And so I think that the reality is that it’s really common. And I think we all I mean, listen, the other piece of this is that we tell ourselves that we’re not going to do these things as parents.

Nicole:

Oh, no. But sometimes we’ll be quieter. Here’s a lollipop for sure.

Shira:

So I think let’s be real. Yeah, but also yeah, I think that we’re socialized to eat for all these external reasons that don’t have to do with physiological hunger…

Nicole:

And then that leads to where we are as adults. So I’ve got an eleven year old girl who is just finished elementary school, going into middle school, and for the first time we’ve always sort of it’s interesting because my kids came in and I’ve talked about this a little bit, but they came in with lots of food issues. I actually don’t know how much I’ve talked about this, but with sort of respecting their right to their story, they had difficulties with food insecurity. It just wasn’t readily available. And they each have a very different relationship with food. One of my daughters will eat whatever she can eat whenever she can get it, leaning towards foods that are stereotypically, maybe snack related, because that was what was readily available. It’s just familiar. I have another daughter who does not like who for a long time thought she didn’t like food because she was always spoiled or it wasn’t flavored because she didn’t have choices around her food.

So I had to recalibrate that. And then I have my youngest daughter who’s with me all the time, who I’ve raised to basically say, oh, there’s foods and we want to eat a variety of them, and we want to crunchy and they’re good for your body and they’re fuel. But she’s never had to think about food in relation to will I get fat or will I be small, will I look good? Will I not look good? All these things that enter the dialogue from peers, in a lot of ways, it’s not in our house.

How do I make sure if there is any way to make sure? I mean, this is probably a tall order, but what do you recommend for language as she’s getting into this formative time where her friends will just want to grab a slice of pizza and ice cream and there will be birthday parties and stuff and she’s like, my favorite foods are tacos, pizza, and spaghetti. But I’m like, girl, you got to eat a salad, but not because you need to be skinny. What does a mom do?

Shira:

I think a couple of things. I think the term growing food is a really good term.

Nicole:
That’s good.

Shira:

Because it takes out like good, bad. This is good for you because then people kids will associate something being good for you. It’s also being something that you have to have.

Nicole:

And sometimes that feels negative. It feels like force at that age completely.

Shira:

And then they start to feel like, well, why do I, is it bad?

Nicole:

Well, they feel that way about everything.

Shira:

Exactly.

Nicole:

A teenager literally is like, if you tell me I have to have it, I don’t want it.

Shira:

Exactly. And I think adults feel that way too. So I think the term growing food in terms of like there are all different types of foods. There are foods that are more celebratory and that you have at birthday parties and stuff like that. That’s fun and that’s great. That’s all part of a healthy eating. But we really, also really need these growing foods. Protein, vegetables with all these nutrients, minerals.

Nicole:
I love that, growing foods, celebration foods. So is it tying it to the purpose behind the food rather than tying it to the feeling or the emotion.

Shira:

Definitely. And just taking out that there are like and we’ve talked about this too, there’s no good or bad foods. But there are foods that are going to help you grow that have to be on the plate. And the rule that I have that has really worked for me and clients of mine is that I want kids and some kids who have significant developmental stuff going on, this is really hard, but I think it’s something to work towards. I want kids to be able to tolerate everything on their plate. Obviously, we’re not forcing kids to eat. Some kids have really specific things about things, touching and stuff like that. But you can tolerate that on your plate. You don’t have to have it. I’m not even forcing you to try it.

Nicole:

So desensitizing.

Shira:

Yeah. Where it’s just kind of like this can exist on your plate together.

Nicole:

It’s not tied to an emotion. That’s so good.

Shira:

Exactly.

Nicole:

What I found with my youngest one is that she’s very independent. Choice is really important.

Shira:

Absolutely, all kids.

Nicole:

Especially when it comes to her food. So what we’ve always done, and I have talked about this with raising her, is we let her choose her meals from categories. So I’ll buy crunchies. I’ll buy fresh things. I’ll buy, like, not good and bad, but crunchies might be a pretzel, a cheese it once in a while. We’ll have tortilla chips, sometimes like regular potato chips or cheetos, something. But you have to pick a crunchy. We want a fresh thing. We want a green thing. Green thing meaning like a veggie. We want like a main. So a main might be your sandwich or a drumstick or whatever. And just kind of letting her decide within those categories what her plate looks like.

Shira:

I think that’s great.

Nicole:
A squishy, which would be like a yogurt, an applesauce or whatever, pudding or whatever. So it has allowed her to style her own food choices and kind of know. But my concern as she’s getting older is I do notice she’ll opt out of veggies and I’ll say, did you have a salad? It’s almost like a natural progression towards if I can get away with it, I will. So I don’t know if that’s a flavor palate thing or an understanding thing or is that just a…

Shira:

Well, I think we are programmed to crave sugar and want sugar and that’s always going to be the dry thing. It just is. I think a lot of kids need a ton of different exposures to ways that they might potentially in some cases like 10, 15, 20 different exposures. A kid might think that they don’t like a thing and then you kind of give up. But I think a lot of people might give up too soon and it makes sense because it does suck and it’s hard to waste food and it feels hard.

But I think that another really amazing thing. And again, I know that this can be eye roll inducing because not everyone has time to do this, but getting kids involved in the process does really help because and again, depending on how young it is, even when Oliver was really, really young, I’d be like, hey, can you close the fridge door or something? Or like pouring in like a thing olives.

Nicole:
That isn’t as daunting though, because I think sometimes when we hear get your kids involved, social media thinks that means like, oh my gosh, they’re chopping their thing, I’m cleaning up after them. It can literally just be in the I grew up because my parents are African and that’s very traditional in our culture. I just sat in the kitchen. I literally was just there.

Shira:

My son used to just lie at my feet like a puppy. He would bring his blanket and he, I think, got exposed to a lot of different foods that way. I would let him try little things here and there and let him smell things and feel the textures of different things and stuff like that. Let him drop in olives to this different thing. I think that we have to understand that anytime a kid is involved with helping, it is going to take longer and be messier. So it’s not always realistic.

Nicole:

Listen, that is the nature of parenting.

Shira:

Totally. Yeah. And sometimes that’s the really beautiful thing. We let them get messy and then also, just to be realistic, sometimes during the week I’m like, we got to just we got to keep it going. But I think getting them involved does give them a sense of ownership over it and it ends up being really helpful in the long run. But then also maybe your daughter doesn’t like just, like, traditional salad, but maybe she would love cucumber and tomatoes with, like, vinegar and pickled onions or something. I mean, maybe that’s kind of like.

Nicole:

No, but I know what you mean.

Shira:

Some kids might want crudites, some kids might want roasted vegetables. It doesn’t matter what it is, as long as we find the thing and we can find it together. And here’s how. Oliver so, I mean, they all want to just be taught things, and this is how the roasting process happens. And this is how when you get the little crispy bits, those are actually the tastiest bits. And so good, I think getting them excited about it.

Nicole:
Yeah, part of that process. Yeah. We had a garden for, like, two years, especially during the pandemic, like, a full fledged, like I grew up.

Shira:

That’s amazing.

Nicole;

And I just would get her out there, like, water or bring me to this, or it’s just harvest time and help me wash them. And I think that familiarity, it’s easier for me to do because that was something I was lacking growing up, because I mentioned to you, like, offline my parents being African, vegetables came into the house, but then they were pureed before they hit our plate.

So I just really I remember when I finally started taking the veggie discovery journey as an adult, I was like, I don’t know much about vegetables, right? Because they’re mostly ground up. They were in Ghana. It’s really regional, right. So it’s like tomatoes and onions and garlic and just certain things that I knew. But I was like, there’s asparagus and artichoke, and I don’t know how to cook. How come I never eat this? But I had to do work with, basically a food therapist in order to engage in that process.

So all of this is so valuable and helpful, and I think the biggest takeaway for me is oh, my goodness. Grace in the process, kindness. Your kids are watching how you treat yourself. I know you had, like, a moment. You all didn’t see her. She had a yes moment.

Shira:

That’s really important, because when you were talking about, what do I do as a mom? I was going to say get them involved. Don’t feel like if they don’t like it at first, that’s the thing. But the other big thing, and I think you’re probably already doing this, is be mindful about the way you’re talking about yourself. That’s because your kids are watching. Your daughters are watching.

Nicole:

That’s so good.

Shira:

I remember just not having ever known, when I was younger, a role model of a female that was confident in her body.

Nicole:

It’s almost felt, I think, growing up, that that was a unifying point of being female. Correct. We don’t like our body.

Shira:

In fact, someone gives you a compliment, it’s like, oh, really?

Nicole:

Self-deprecating. Or that one scene in Mean Girls reverend’s in front of the mirror, and they’re all like, my arms are too big. My things are too fat. And then she looks at her, and she’s like because she didn’t have issues, the main character, and she’s like, I have really bad breath in the morning. Because she felt like she just had to offer something else that she disliked as part of being a girl.

Shira:

That’s really important.

Nicole:

And it’s like, that doesn’t have to be our reality.

Shira:

It doesn’t have to be our reality. And I think the real I had a client recently, it literally brought me to tears, who kind of was able to combat a lot of this stuff. She was able to lose some weight, but just as importantly, really feel confident for the first time. And she had been in this place, and I’m not saying to me, all bodies are summer bodies. All that is true. But she didn’t ever feel comfortable getting in the pool with her daughter. And so her daughter was two, and she got in the pool for the first time, and her daughter started crying because she was like, I didn’t know you knew how to swim. It was so much beyond beyond it was like, who cares what you eat? But it meant so much to her that she was able to get there. And I think that however we get there, let’s just kind of really try and get there and be what kind of we needed to hear, because I needed to hear more women being like, yeah, I do look pretty good.

Nicole:

Yeah. Or like, it’s so funny because just even in that portion of the conversation, it reminded me of some of the wins that I’m not calculating because I’ve been so big on the non-scale victories, right? So I’m like, oh, my blood pressure went down, or this, and I’ve learned to really celebrate those, but you just reminded me that I could celebrate that. The other day, I was like, oh, I put on a couple of pounds, and I need looser clothing. Not, I need a bigger size. Not that. Like, oh, I need, like I have a really good friend, Ashley Lemieux, who was talking about how she bought a pair of pants with rips in the knees, and when she put them on and sat down, it split, like, all the way up. And the way she described it was, I guess my thigh needed more freedom. And I was like, yes, girl, your thigh needed freedom. And I think that those are some of the things that are big takeaways. That’s a win, too.

Shira:

That’s a huge win, and that’s a huge gift to your girls. It really is. And I think that a lot of us growing up in our generation really, really needed that.

Nicole:

And now we get to be that.

Shira:

And now we can be that and break out of that generational cycle of just like being so mean to ourselves. And getting to watch what that does to that generation of girls is really exciting.

Nicole:

Because even if you don’t lose a pound, at least if we’re still going to be heavy, or if weight loss is even your goal, but even if you don’t change your body to where you want it to be, you’re still in it. So at least be nice to yourself while you’re still in it.

Shira:

I think that that’s really important because I think that there’s this weird thing now where it’s like, I am so all bodies are summer bodies. And at the same time, there is nothing wrong with someone wanting to look and feel their best, whatever that is to them.

Nicole:

Absolutely.

Shira:

But I think that owning that and just being like, yeah, if someone were to give you a compliment and say something like, oh, you look really good, be like, you know, I’m feeling really good. Thank you.

Nicole:

Yes, just taking it. That’s good. And also keeping in mind that while you’re on your journey, you can’t hate yourself along the way.

Shira:

And accepting where you I think there is this wherever you are right now, accepting where you are right now is not the thing that’s going to keep you stuck where you are. If your goal is to move forward, it’s actually the thing that’s going to help you be like when you kind of take a little step back. Because anytime a client’s working with me, they’ll be going, going, going there and take a little step back. And it’s what you do in that moment, because in that moment, you can be like, it’s all over. I was working so hard. Now it’s all over. Now I’m off the wagon. I’m doing this. Or do you, which is harder to be like. That was disappointing.

Nicole:

Yes.

Shira:

I feel just so disappointed. That was disappointing. I’ve been working so hard, and then I feel like, what do I do right now? Well, what do I learn from this?

Nicole:
That’s so good.

Shira:

How do I use that to fuel myself forward in just knowing myself better and knowing what my triggers are and knowing what kind of, like, gets in my way?

Nicole:

This right here. Okay. Everything I needed in this moment. I’m going to listen to this on repeat because I can’t keep you in my pocket, but I will be texting you. Shira, thank you for all of this. And where can we get more of your wisdom? I know that you’ve got a private practice too. So sorry to fill up your books, girls.

Shira:

No, please.

Nicole:

People are trying to grab some of this. So where how can we work with you? How can we get more?

Shira:

Well, ShiraRD.com is where you can find me to email me. I’m also on Instagram at Sherard. You can DM me. We can go from there. I also wrote the book The Food Therapist.

Nicole:

Get it, get it, get it.

Shira:

And my podcast, Good Instincts on Dear Media.

Nicole:

Oh, you’re amazing. You’re incredible. I love you to pieces forever. Never ever leave my life. Where have you been this whole time. Thank you for being here.

Shira:

Thank you so much.

Nicole:

Hey, friends. So this chat is actually kind of personal, but I’m excited to share it with you because I just had like another realization and I was Googling everywhere. You know how whenever you have something that occurs to you, whether it’s an idea or something that happens to you health-wise or an experience, one of the first places we hit is like, Dr. Google, right? We’re going to self-diagnose by looking things up. And I could not find anything about this. So I am excited to share with you kind of what I’ve learned through research and all that jazz and asking questions of professionals.

Now, this is actually about my health. If you’ve been tuning in and hanging with me on these chats since the top of the season, you know that I’ve gone through a bajillion transitions. I got divorced, I fell back in love. I am parenting now as a single mom, but not really because Alex is here and he’s awesome. But I mentioned somewhat briefly, but I’ve had a couple dedicated chats about it, that I had a lot of health issues that kind of initiated or were part of the transition out of my marriage. And what’s interesting was I talked a lot about some of the things that I had noticed initially and how I was just so grateful to really have had the time upon my divorce and that separation season to really just focus on getting healthy again.

Well, I have got updates. So you’ve heard me talk recently about how I’m excited to kind of get my body and my physical self ready for the fertility process. Like, I’m really excited to possibly bring kids into this world with my new partner. And I announced that me and Alex are engaged and we’re getting married. And I’m just very excited to grow my family. And so part of that has been going through the whole fertility thing, checking your hormones, getting blood work, but also knowing that I’m coming off of a season of heavy stress on my body, just really staying on top of things.

So for the mamas who are listening, the sisters, the friends, all of you all just starting from the top, there’s not going to be any horrible news here, but it’s definitely worth listening to so you can breathe easy. I’m not going to say something horrific, but I do want to let you know that I am going to share with you just some things that I’m learning that I think may be hugely eye opening for you, if you’re making certain choices around your health, your body, your environment.

So this past week, I went in for a follow up visit with a dermatologist about a mole on my back. Now, I want to say, just to be completely transparent, I am a sun lover. I am African. It is my natural way. You can bake me in the sun. I don’t even know, if I feel heat in a normal way. Put me outside on a beach, direct sun, 90 degree temperatures, and I am like a happy clam. Okay. I love it. Also, without spending an entire episode talking about colorism and issues around complexion within the black community and the greater racial constructs within the world, I like being black. This really ties in. This really ties in with my loving being in the sun. Listen, roast me until I am the color of midnight. Oil me up so my skin is reflective. I am here for it, right?

So this is a thing that I just have times where I’m like, this is all I need is I just need a good sun soak and obviously that isn’t in alignment with sun health. Yes, I use sunscreen. No, I don’t do it perfectly. And as I get older, I have to be mindful of that for cosmetic reasons, if not health ones. Well, fast forward about a month ago I was dealing with a real stretch of travel. I had three speaking gigs across four different cities. I was traveling from LA back to the east coast. I had a couple of VIP clients.

If you don’t know about my VIP days, I’ll actually drop a link in the show notes below. People and clients and small business owners and people looking to start a small business. Book me, spend a day with me. We build their business. We answer questions. We do pivots, we build products. And I do that all from my office in Beverly Hills. But occasionally I’ll go to my clients. So that said, I had a bunch of those. So I was in Austin. I was in DC. I was in Pennsylvania, I was in Atlanta, and then I was back home. And I did all of this in a span of about six days.

So this is about like a month, six weeks ago. And when I headed out, I remember just not feeling great. And I thought it was just general fatigue, partly because I knew I had this stretch coming ahead of me and because frankly, recovering from the divorce process and the transition, managing a baby, all that, girl, I’m tired. We’re all tired. And so I was certain that that was what it was.

Well, I landed in Austin for the first sort of stretch of my speaking gigs, and I felt like trash. I mean, I was like, I’m just going to rest as much as I can and that’s going to be my goal so that I can at least show up for the things that I am obligated to show up for. And also I was excited about it. I love meeting you all in person. I just love getting out there. And I still think I’m getting my fill after COVID kind of had us all locked down.

So I land and I rest and I’m just kind of chilling and I didn’t feel like. And I think all you all relate. You know, how you can tell where it’s not allergies, it’s not a cold, it’s not whatever. So I just knew that this wasn’t like a sick, sick thing. But my body felt heavy. So I rest and I get going. But I also noticed that my back was aching on my shoulder blade on the right side. It was just aching, aching, aching. And I couldn’t quite put my finger on it. It seemed centralized around a certain spot. But I also have this horrible habit of feeling like I’m just going to pull through it. And that’s going to tie into this conversation because I just don’t have time to deal in the particular season.

So I was like, you know, it doesn’t seem that bad. I’ll be fine. So I managed to get to my gig and I do my gig and everything’s going well and I’m rallying. But by the end of the gig, it was a particularly hot day in Texas. I actually almost fainted. Like I was so lightheaded and I blamed it on the heat, maybe not eating enough hydrating enough, whatever it was but by the time I got back to the green room, I was just shy of like a full on pass out. My head was spinning. I was dizzy. I managed to recover enough after getting some water and food in me that I thought it’s just got to be the heat. So I slept a little bit, hopped on a 04:00 a.m. flight back east to continue my stretch. So all along the way, I’m feeling this ache in my back. But I’m just kind of dismissing it. So I finally managed to see my sister.

If you follow along over on Instagram, you’ll see that I got to see my sister during that stretch of travel, which is always so special. And I call her my baby sister, but she’s like in her 30s. But my baby sister and I had her take a look at my back. And she took a look at my back and she was like, Nana, which is what she calls she’s like, nana, there is a spot on your back. It looks like a bad spider bite. Like you’ve got to get that checked out when you get back to LA. And I was like, oh gosh, not a spider bite. Of course I’ll get it checked out. But at least I knew that there was something going on there. But it seems surface even though it ached, like into the bone. But I was like, just a bad spider bite. It happens. So I brushed it off and I continued doing what I was doing. But I knew that because it still ached when I get back to LA, I was going to get it checked out.

Well, when I landed in LA. It didn’t hurt as much after this week of travel. So I was like, well, I’ll put it on the calendar, but I won’t stress it. So I get in and to my doctor’s appointment maybe like a week and a half out from that point. And at this point, a lot of the bump itself had subsided, but the ache was still kind of there. And at this point we’re talking two and a half weeks of like a shoulder blade ache. So the doctor takes a look and says, yeah, maybe it’s a spider bite. We’re going to take some photos and send it in for a better look and do a referral out for you.

But then when they look on my back, they also find a weird looking spot. And they’re like this spot, it looks a little bit concerning. Concerning meaning they were worried about it being a possible melanoma, which is a form of skin cancer. And so they’re like, this spot looks a little concerning. We’re also going to take a picture of this and send it out. Now I want to let you all know right out of the gate, and this is rare, usually I do not share information when I am in the process. I usually share it once I have an answer.

But I think it’s important enough to share this because I don’t know where you may be in your personal journey and I don’t want to delay on this. So I don’t have an answer yet as to whether or not that was a melanoma or not. On the positive side, I don’t even receive, you all know I’m a God girl, I don’t even receive that it was right. So no matter what, I don’t have a formal diagnosis, but I know the diagnosis from a god, okay, it ain’t nothing, right?

But even if it were fortunately slow growing type cancer, easy to treat. And I did go in and get it biopsied, which means that they essentially take it out and send it in to get examined. But when I went to get it biopsied because I’m also team extra, I was not about that, oh, just take a piece of it. We don’t want you to have too bad of a scar. Let’s just take little bit. No, I already have a man. You can take out half my back, okay? If it is cancer, we’re not going to wait for an answer. You’re just going to take the whole thing and then you can come back and tell me later it was nothing and that’s fine. I can have a dent in my back. I do not care, right? I’m too old to care about that.

So either way, the whole thing is gone. But I will find out probably in about a week’s time kind of what happened there, if anything at all. But the one thing I wanted to call out is actually not even that. What if I told you that that wasn’t even the thing? So upside, because I had this ache on my back, I found this spot that could be questionable, possibly could be skin cancer, and got it removed because I never would have known it was there if this thing hadn’t happened. Look at God, right?

But aside from that, when I went into the dermatologist, they took a look at this bite on my back and immediately diagnosed it as shingles. Let’s talk about shingles. First of all, it’s not contagious, it’s not like a weird type of thing. Shingles, you may have heard of it. There are lots and lots of ads for vaccines for, like, American adults, older adults that are, like, I think they say, over the age of 65 or over 70 to get a vaccine for it because it presents as a rash that usually shows up along one side of your body and a lot of nerve and joint pain. And it is extremely painful and very uncomfortable. And you pretty much only get it if you have ever had chickenpox because it is related to the chickenpox virus that literally no one gets anymore because there’s a vaccine for it.

So there’s a secondary vaccine for shingles, which is what occurs when the chickenpox virus pops up again when you’re old. So here’s how this all plays out. One, I am not even 40, y’all? I am not even 40 and my body is breaking out in a reaction to something that is typically presented in people twice my age. First note. Second note shingles is known for being incredibly painful and very difficult to the point where they prescribe very strong painkillers and creams to help people have comfort while they’re dealing with this nerve pain, possibly for months on end. I was working and traveling during this.

Lastly, I completely let this go over this time and didn’t address it till later. Here’s why this matters, y’all? The person who did all those behaviors is very much the me prior to divorce. And shingles is something that typically only represents itself when your immune system is either suppressed or when you are living under high stress. Are you picking up what I’m laying down, Nicole? Yes, talking to self now, but I hope you’re listening in on the conversation I had with me. I said, Nicole, you came out of this divorce situation and you said to yourself, you will never get yourself into a physical condition again, where you are operating at such a high bandwidth with so little capacity that you make yourself ill.

In the past, it was a ridiculously high blood pressure to the tune of 173 over 153 stroke range. In the past, it has been Bell’s Palsy where my face has presented all the signs of a stroke and become fully paralyzed. And now I’m seeing shingles because with all the things that I’m juggling, I had a week here where I just let myself go and the combination of everything and now I had nerve pain.

So the lesson in all of this is this thing that I was googling and searching, which is, I think really relevant to kind of this tide that we’re seeing turn on social media. Have you all seen you can just give me the virtual nod, right? Because I know we’re having this conversation like friends on a couch. Have you all seen this turn towards social media where everyone’s talking about soft life, where everyone’s like, live a soft life, girl, do you, travel by yourself? Relax, like, make time, light a candle, play some Erica Badu? It’s like this whole thing, right? Soft life.

So I want to tell you, I am not anti. Please. We deserve a life that is not hard. We can work to earn it, but we also deserve it without earning, right? Like, you are entitled and you deserve the right to peace, right? That’s not something you have to pay or sacrifice or fight for. But I also want to talk about the fact that friends everywhere online, all this talk of self care is diluted and confused with personal care. I can’t tell you how many friends I have that take “me” days and they do things that are just personal care.

Self care is about nurturing yourself, feeding yourself. I think of it as fertilizing a plant. A plant can grow and bear fruit in ideal circumstances with just water and sunlight. But we know that life, just like for plants, is not always going to give ideal circumstances meaning, you’re going to need to nurture the soil. You’re going to need to add extra ingredients. If it’s short on something, you’re going to have to get that and apply it. There are things that we sometimes have to do to nurture ourselves so that we can actually flourish and bear fruit the way we’re supposed to. And that is what I think of when I think of self care.

Self care is not tilling your soil, pruning your leaves, doing maintenance. Self care is the extra above and beyond to nourish to make sure you are bearing the largest, sweetest, most bountiful fruit and continuing to flourish. Are you picking up what I’m laying down? We will literally post on the internet ourselves, getting nails, eating lunch and buying ourselves new bras because, you know, you wear the same three all the time and the wires been poking you in the side for years and talk about some self care.

Girl, you deserve new bras. You should get your nails done. They just need to be done. You deserve to take yourself out to lunch. You cook for every single body else all the time. You deserve a moment of peace and quiet and a good meal cooked for you. These are totally separate. This is not self care. This is personal care. It’s your well being. Just like I deserve to go to my regular doctor’s appointment, and I deserve to stop working and take a moment to get checked out. Like, all of those things are personal care items that should be better integrated into my life and something I do naturally.

Now all those things are therapeutic things. I tell you when you live for decades where you have not been taught personal care or shown personal care, and if you read my book, Nothing is missing, for the first time, I actually dive into a lot of my childhood and how the way that we learn to treat ourselves is something that’s really based on how we are treated and how we see our parents treat others in the very beginning.

So if you grow up in a home where it is common for the women of the household to treat themselves as second class citizens, or if you come from an environment where basic necessities are not prioritized as needs but seen as luxury, it’s not uncommon that you may treat yourself like that as well.

And I’m not judging any of that based on neglect or abuse per se, but it may be done because of circumstances or poverty or ignorance. They just may not know. And so we then will perpetuate those cycles in our relationships. We will likely bring them into our homes. And until someone calls it out, which hopefully is me doing that for you right now, friend, right? We won’t actually take the steps that are required to change it.

And that, for me, has been an ongoing journey. I have chosen relationships where I have permitted these cycles that are so harmful, literally to my health, where if I’m dealing with a medical condition that is visible and apparent, I don’t surround myself with people that will care for me. I have now, which is great. Alex in particular, is a very great partner in saying, like, slow down, stop, or I will physically stop you. I will carry you in. Are you okay? You don’t look good. Like, checking in and also outright caring for me, getting me things, taking me like, he’s tremendous.

But it wasn’t always like that. And so I really was in a place where self neglect was a priority, and self care wasn’t even on the table, let alone personal care. So the thing that I had to cope with when, my reaction to this doctor’s appointment and I was fortunate because Alex came with me, which, again, is new. Having a partner that’s present during my appointments is just such a relief because it allows me to just focus on my condition.

But I have someone there who’s asking questions and making sure I’m okay and remembering what meds I’ll need to take and reminding me, it’s so nice to share that mental load. But when I was in that appointment, my first reaction, because of so much trauma around neglect and also fear that I’m going to repeat behaviors or I haven’t shaken enough behaviors from before. My first response was, I can’t believe I did this to myself again.

After all my growth, after everything that I’ve done, I cannot believe that I felt something wrong with me and I neglected it for work. And again, grace, grace, grace. We talk about this all the time, especially if some of you are hearing this right now and you’re thinking, my foot hurts, or I have that bump, or I have that thing I haven’t checked out, or whatever. Grace. Grace. Grace. Grace. Grace. Right? It does not serve us to beat ourselves up as we’re trying to learn and grow and do better and all that, right? I’m learning that just when you think you are healed and through, you probably have another year ahead of you.

Just as I’m thinking, gosh, I’ve made so much progress from this divorce. I’m nowhere near where I was before. I’m not as shaken. I’ve healed so much. I have moments where I’m just like, oh, girl, you’re still doing some of the same things in smaller scales, and the recovery is quicker, but I’m still doing stuff. So I had a moment, and Alex could sit. He saw it. I was literally tearing up because I was so mad at myself for letting this even go on as long as it did, or even get to my place where I had that shingles circumstance. And I was grateful that, again, just, like, reducing my blood pressure or the recovery of my bell’s palsy, which that was by the grace of God alone, because that could have been permanent, a paralyzed face.

But I was so grateful that I recovered from this. And I want to let you know, friend, that a lot of times we hear these stories about how people who are young, essentially, like, in their 40s, in their 60s, like, young and otherwise seemingly healthy and with so much promise in their life and lots of great things going on, how they just, like, fall out and they’re gone, right? Like, they drop dead, they have a heart attack, they slip away in their sleep, and we’ll hear about the end line, which is, oh, their heart just gave out, like, too much stress or whatever.

But I want to tell you that the thing I’m learning and really receiving right now is that your body shows you so many signs before that big moment. It’s not like your stress, stress, stress, stress, stress, fall out. It’s stress can show up in your life and reflect it in your physical self in so many ways. It can show up as a rash. It can show up as, I just found out I have Psoriasis, which I didn’t even know. I just thought that I had really dry hands after pandemic, and the dermatologist again said, no, this is Psoriasis.

And you don’t notice it as much because when you are more stressed out, it’s more likely to be activated. I’m just like, not my whole body falling apart based on stress. My other numbers healthy, all my other blood work, healthy. I am healthy and physically well. And every single thing I am dealing with now is stress related. My Psoriasis showed up about three years ago when I first left my marriage. And so the reason why I’m speaking out about this openly, particularly in relation to my divorce, particularly in relation to the transition, is because I really want you to hear that one, your lifestyle can hurt your body.

And not just in using drugs or activities or things like that. But I want you to hear that if you are seeing things like rashes or headaches that don’t seem to be explained or nerve pain or joint pain or heart palpitations or whatever, it’s not just like, oh, maybe I’m doing too much, or I need to eat better, I need more exercise. It could simply be stress. I am an otherwise healthy person and whenever I talk about how I had to find safety for myself and I use that word, and I mean that word, I had to find safety for myself in my lifestyle and peace to keep myself alive because my body was breaking down because of the way that I was living and the choices I made and the relationships, plural, that I had.

The people around me were affecting me in the form of pressure and stress, and I was permitting it. And I say this to you friend, because I care about you. And there’s already so much pressure on us from the grief of the pandemic and there’s so much pressure on us from needing to show up for our kids and our family and our jobs every single day, but you ain’t showing up for nobody if you’re not here. And so I want you to know that if indeed there is something right here and now as I am saying this to you today, that you know you need to get checked out. It isn’t even self care for you to make that appointment. It is personal care and you are deserving. It is necessary and you should do it. Make that appointment and get seen.

But outside of that, I also want to encourage you as you are going along, to engage in self care. And self care is that nurturing, that fertilization, that extra care. It’s not even the massage. A massage isn’t a treat. A massage is maintenance. There’s a reason why they assign physical therapy for bodies that are breaking down and in treatment. It is not a treat. It is actually something that if you ask a lot of doctors, they recommend that you do like weekly. I recognize the privilege of the cost. Yada yada. But I just want you to understand that you deserve and need that self care so you can be as high functioning as you are.

So please, friend, take good care of yourself. Hear that from me as someone who is taking this journey and is three years out from recovering from being at my worst and still feeling the effects of that time. And I’m not so naive as to think that I’m going to recover from decades of living a certain way and having a certain mindset in minutes. But I was surprised, I’m not going to lie to you, I was surprised. I thought I’d done so much better because all my numbers and my blood work and things like that had come in pretty well. But it’s still here.

And so I’m doubling down, I’m creating more space, I’m shifting things around in my business to minimize stressors and responsibilities. And I’m going to tell you, just I’m really grateful because I’m even looking at it and saying to myself, the money’s not worth it. In some areas, my money is not worth my life. I do not want to leave this planet sooner than God calls me because of work. It’s just not worth it. And I’m excited for the ways that I get to show up in our relationship here with our chats weekly, with this incredible book that I think is going to give so much color and insight to the stories that I’m telling now.

I mean, you are going to read this book and say, girl, no wonder. And that’s exciting to know that we can have a richer, deeper conversation. It’s also scary and very vulnerable. I feel very vulnerable putting myself out there that way. But I really, really hope that the book, coupled with our chats here, gives you the tools you need and the lessons so that you don’t have to repeat some of the things that I’ve done.

So friend, make the appointment, go to the appointment, do the things your doctor has told you, set up your systems of self care and make sure that you are leaning into it completely because you are valuable.

Nicole:

Hey friends. So if you have been following me on Instagram you know, one historically I am not a morning person. I don’t know about you but I have always found that whether it’s in entrepreneurship or in being a mom that one of the biggest things that I see online is content around efficiency, but efficiency is always masked as like wake up at 4 a.m, right? The only way to make it happen is if you sneak extra hours in the day and I gotta tell you I have been all over the place in trying to steal back extra hours because as moms, as busy women, as goal-driven entrepreneurs, we have so much going on in our lives that our to-do list never ends.

I mean, I know that this is literally and universally, like right now you’re listening to this probably while doing another task, whether it’s in the carpool line, working out, at the grocery store, cooking dinner. Like, this is just our life, right? But I have to tell you, girl, I love a sleep in. I’m not kidding. I love a sleep in. In a way where It is a treat to me to go to bed and not turn on an alarm and know that I just get to lay. Like I just need to lay. I want to wake up whenever I wake up. Like isn’t this why most Mother’s Day’s and most holidays and birthdays start with like not having any requirements to wake up early.

So knowing that I am coming from that far on the spectrum of loving a sleep in to girl, I need to wake up at 4 a.m. in order to be anything productive, like that’s just not going to happen. And so I have to tell you, and this is so hard to admit, I have actually managed to sneak in an extra 10 hours a week of productivity by doing this one thing. I’m gonna tell you exactly what it is.

I do get up earlier, but instead of trying to do it based on someone else’s schedule, based on some hashtag, tip, miracle morning, strategy, routine, what have you, I’ve actually found my own motivation to do it and I built in structures to make it easier. So here’s what this looks like.

Let’s go back to move forward. Ever since college, everyone always knew me as the person to not really talk to before 11. It’s just the truth. If you catch me before 11, I’m not gonna be nice. I might be up at 9 if I have a class or something to do but if it is before 11 like you’re not gonna get the energy that you’re gonna want to meet because I am like barely functional.

I can’t think. I’m like stumbling. I just do not have it all the way together. And so all Over the past maybe 12 to 15 years of becoming a mom, starting my own successful business, taking on media and TV projects, I have literally had such a jam-packed day that I literally was like, I could work until midnight and not finish everything.

Well, since moving to California and being in Los Angeles y’all some of you may not realize this if you’re an East Coaster but if I sleep until 11 I am waking up when the day is over in other parts of the country and we have to decide if, especially if you’re on the West Coast, if you’re going to work on East Coast hours.

So what that’s meant is I have to figure out how to get up earlier. Now, aside from having a kid and needing to wake up for school and all of those things, you know, the privilege of being able to sleep late and work 15 hour days anyways by staying up to 11, is just one that my old over 30 self just can’t even manage anymore. Right. So what I started doing was I’ve been examining different methods to wake up earlier.

So I’ve tried the whole, oh, we’ll wake up and do like meditation or wake up and just have like a routine that is peaceful. Like I’m gonna wake up and I’m gonna drink some tea and all these things. But the truth is none of it was working for me. If I’m just gonna wake up and do meditation, I can meditate with my eyes closed in my bed. Okay, right? Like that’s what I’m really trying to do. Or wake up and just go for it. Like start your day right away, crank it out, go run, go work out. Like no, that is not exciting. So finally, I started examining a different perspective. And this is kind of what I want to encourage you on. This is part 1, like, or I should say, piece one of my get more hours in your week method. And then part 2, I think is going to just blow your mind with the simplicity of it, right?

Cause you know, I love a regular person strategy for what is otherwise a complex issue. So the regular person strategy, the first part of part 1, is instead of focusing on what you’re going to do when you wake up, shift to thinking about why. That mindfulness is everything. Everything. I have, I’m not kidding y’all, I used to be so worried about I have to wake up to do, do, do, do, do. And 1 of my good friends, Lana Jackson, she’s the CEO of Browne Wellness. She was on our podcast last week. One of the things that she was talking to me about is that, and actually not just her, but also another good friend of mine, Tamika, Tamika Lewis, she is the owner of Women of Color Therapy based in Sherman Oaks, an incredible facility. Both of them are always talking about how our society has really geared women, particularly marginalized women, to believe that our bodies are based on productivity.

Like women are built to do and to serve. And I got to tell you, outside of getting that message from society all the time that my job is to get up and move and do and provide, I don’t need to give that message to myself, particularly as like my starting point – that my first thing I do when I rise is to get into motion. So I knew already that why wasn’t gonna work for me. But what I found was if I attached my why for waking up to my greatest values what matters the most to me and something that would nurture and grow that – that it was just a tremendously different result. Like I wanted to wake up.

So my big why for getting up just a little bit earlier every single day is my babies. And let me tweak this. I know some of y’all are like, listen, sis, okay? I’m already waking up for my babies because they’re hollering because I got to get them food, because I am breastfeeding right now. I hear you. I hear you. I hear you. This is what I mean. I recognize that as my little one, who’s 11 now going into sixth grade. I know we can’t believe it.

She is getting older that I’m only going to have so much time left of this sort of, I call it the baby phase, right? That elementary school sweetness where you still want to hang out with mom and you still want to give me hugs and you aren’t all the way a teen who just wants to do teen things and you still think I’m kind of cool. Like I hope it lasts a really long time but I don’t know how long it’s gonna be and so because of that, you know I’m really eating up each one of these moments and I realized even though I’m so sweet my Misterfella does school drop-off but they were getting up every morning and having like a real quick breakfast, hopping in the car, driving the 10 minutes to school, you know, picking a song, you know, like having that chat time and I was like, why can’t I just join in on that?

What would it look like for me to have that extra 10 minutes every morning with her? You know over the course of a week, that’s an extra hour of time with my baby, just to kick off the day. You know and what would that do for my heart and my spirit? And I never want to look back after a month and say, oh my gosh, that was like a full half day of not seeing my baby that I could have seen my baby, you know, and is laying in bed really worth not having that time, particularly when I don’t have to do the drive and I don’t have to do all these. I can literally just sit there and enjoy her.

And I realized that that was a pretty big why, right? That makes me want to get up. You know, so for you, it may look a little different. Maybe that the reason that you want to get up has something to do with, you know, I want to prepare a better meal for myself and I enjoy cooking and maybe I never have the time to get that done in the day and so this is something I really want to do or I want to try a new hairstyle and you know it makes me feel really good to do this or I enjoy doing my makeup and I can take a little extra time to do that or I want to have time to chat with my mom in the morning and I don’t talk to her enough but I can fit in a morning call particularly on the East Coast/West Coast vibes you know like whatever it is I found that waking up and attaching that to something that is connected to something bigger than just a new workout regimen or a new business or something that’s productivity-based, has really been a much more consistent driver for me than what I was doing before.

So that’s the first part of it. But also on top of that, right, let’s stack our whys. Another thing that worked great for me was the Misterfella, right? So I realized that, you know, because he’s doing the driving and because he’s tagging along I get all this extra time with both of them. And who has ever looked back on their life and said, man, I really wish I’d spent less time with my family. You know, it’s easy for us to say now But truly how many of us have looked back and said I wish I had less quality time with my family.

So we had some incredible conversations during this morning carpool. It’s such a powerful, energetic, positive start to my day being with the people I love and not being with them in a capacity where I am doing for them. That’s part of what feels good about this. This isn’t me having to play, do you have this and have you got this? And what is for dinner? And let me prep this. I literally just get to enjoy my family and start off my day for about 15 to 30 minutes every morning.

And that is enough for me that when I open my eyes because I hear the rustlings and sounds of the morning, which y’all, we hear that anyways, because these kids are loud. They have no consideration whatsoever. Kids have one volume, right? So we hear those sounds anyways, and it’s like being able to wake up and just say, you know what, I’m going to get up and join in, feels really good for me, right? It feels really good. It’s that stacked why. But then and y’all are gonna be like Nicole, this is unreal I can’t believe this happened for you, as someone who didn’t even want to get up early well, my guy goes to the gym religiously. Like when I tell you call it a LA thing, call it like he comes from a family that’s always been very athletic, you know, and so like his parents walk like I think something like 7 miles every morning or something like that to get it’s just like they’re just it’s part of their life, you know, and his dad was like a cross country runner and like good at it. And so it’s like for him going to the gym, he goes every day. You know how the doctor recommends, what is it, 30 minutes 3 times a week? He goes to the gym every single day for like 90 minutes in the morning. I don’t, You know, I can’t even make this. I’m like, why it’s so much? <laughs>

But also, don’t we all secretly wish that we were that person who was like, I love working out so much. It feels good to me. I get endorphins. For me, working out has always been work. Like I’ll do it, but it has always been work. So catch this, y’all. The other thing that this is in part B, we’re still in part 1 of stacking your whys. One of the things that’s been a byproduct of this is once I’m in the car, well, after school drop off, he goes to the gym. So what’s happened is I wake up in the morning and in order for like, gotta get dressed, right? Well, I’ve started putting on workout gear. You know, I have this incredible workout set from Nike that’s like pretty carefree, I guess is the best way, because I don’t have to worry about, will it fit? Is it comfortable? Is it tight? Is it that time of month? Is it, will it hold me in? I just don’t have to think about it, right? I can just put it on and go. It’s like very easy gear. And honestly, frankly, that fits into part 2, which I’ll talk about in a minute, which is set up processes in the night before, you know. My friend Jen Hatmaker always says, you know, let the nighttime you, you know, let the morning you be happy for what the nighttime you did, right? So let nighttime you pull out the gear and the tools that you need so that your morning is easy.

So like for me, like having Nike sets means I don’t have to think about whether or not my leggings are going to be comfortable. I don’t have to think about whether or not my bra is going to have too much bounce. I don’t have to think about whether or not like, frankly, if I’m going to take a shower after the gym, if I’m going to have that like sweat lock in my clothing, like everything’s got that like, you know, instant dry fit, you know, I don’t have to think about. For instance, I just got a new pair of Nike sneakers, I found that the sneakers I was wearing before were too flat, not enough cushioning for, you know, what I do at the gym, which I’ll talk about in part B. And so having my new Nike sneakers with the appropriate padding on them has literally saved my knee like I’m not kidding my hips and my back were starting to hurt because your girl wasn’t going to the gym until she started this process, like regularly, you know, she was just working out sporadically. And now that I’m at the gym, kind of hitting it hard 5 days a week, I was feeling it. And it turns out that it was a sneaker thing. And Nike is for athletes. You know, Nike is for, you know, that’s their foundation. So that means that as an everyday person who wears athleisure and is also putting on clothing, you know, as just a regular mom, so I need to go from the gym to whatever else I’m doing, you know, or from carpool to the gym.

Like it was so important for me to have things that actually helped my body. So like having these sneakers, like literally was a game changer. I switched into them because the cushioning was like a game changer. But all that being said, you know, I slip on this stuff now to go to do this drop off and I just get in the car and go. And It’s great because I’m wearing my athleisure. I’m chill. I don’t even have to think twice. I get in the car, do drop off, and then I go to the gym with him because he’s not swinging by the house to drop me back off. He’s still doing his routine! Y’all, y’all I have been going to the gym now for over a month with my guy. I look, I don’t know if you can hear the shock, like if you in my face, y’all, like I accidentally became a gym rat simply because I found a stacked why different why’s that that led to this behavior.

After literally decades of trying everyone else’s systems, after literally decades of telling people like, you gotta want it more than you want the sleep, you know, that motivational talk, like after all this time of thinking, well, I just need to build out a certain routine. Well, I just need to, like, try meditation, or I just need to try this. All those things can work for different people, but at the end of the day, all of us are inspired to get up if we feel like there is a reason that is good enough to do so. And my reason was never just, oh, to build my business or oh, to, you know, I don’t know, like get into being more productive and get more done in the day. I don’t want to start a hard day early, But what you better believe ended up being my reason to get up was my family and being with them, especially after as you’ve heard, you know in our whole seasons of chats like all the things I’ve been through I just don’t take it lightly.

Like I have my health now and the idea that I could spend more moments with my family’s just means so much to me and by extension I’m improving my health.

So let’s get to piece 2, so this is the other part of it, and y’all will laugh at this I posted this past week like video of me waking up and like again tossing on my workout gear You know like making sure that was ready, and y’all saw I was wiping the sleep out of my eye, just a whole mess. I am a zombie in the morning. When I wake up, I am full on incoherent, like crusties in the eye, drool on the face, zombie. Like do not ask me questions, cannot function, which is crazy, because you know, by noon, I’m like zip, zam, boom, you know, Nicole can go, she can think she’s fast. So like, because I am so out of it, I have got to set up my day.

So it’s why I basically made a like only Workout gear like line up my Nike have all my sneaks there, like everything is ready to go. Because if I have all my stuff stacked and ready to go it actually keeps me from screwing up in the morning, because I cannot think.

So here’s the other piece of it. If you are saying to yourself, I’m going to wake up and do this laundry list of things, like, well, when I wake up, then I’m going to do this, and then I’m going to have this, and then I’m going to prepare my ancient tea ceremony, then I’m going to work on cross-stitching, then I’m going to do 15 affirmations. I don’t know about y’all, but my brain does not turn on that quick. Sometimes creating a list around what you should do to like cultivate relaxation can actually be overwhelming.

Like maybe it’s just more organic around not putting that extra pressure on yourself and just being glad and celebrating who you are and where you are right now. I feel my all when I know I am not putting extra pressure on myself to be more than what’s required in order to be successful for the day. You know, like starting off my day knowing that it’s okay for me to show up with what I got and ease my way in has been everything. So again, I do not want to minimize being an entrepreneur and having the financial flexibility and the privilege to have a day design like this. Not all of us got it.

I know for a fact that some of y’all are hopping up to get on that bus, hopping up to do that commute, hopping up to take care of those kids, single moms, you know, dealing with health concerns. Like, privilege is not lost on me, and you all deserve every single round of applause for doing it and the grace to try to fit in everything you can. You are inspiring. But I also am just sharing what works for me. And what I have found is literally grace, by removing all these boundaries and barriers and lists and tools and tricks and all these extra hacks that I’m getting, which frankly, a lot of them are coming from guys, who don’t have to deal with half the stuff that us mamas do.

Of course it’s easy for you to get up and just run to the gym because you’re not the one worried about getting the kids to school or you’re not the ones worried about making sure we have meat out of the freezer so it’s defrosted for dinner. You’re just up and going. You’re worried about you. And so what I found is when I have this stack of things ready to go, the other thing that I keep ready to go are all my vitamin and supplements that I keep right on the counter. I also have pre-workout. I make my athletic green shake in advance. I mean, I literally have all these things lined up and ready to go from the nighttime and like a lot of them like my supplements and stuff I can get ready top of the week.

So I can literally stumble in there, incoherent, into my bathroom, slip on my workout gear knowing that I’m ready to go take my stuff and then stumble into the car. By the time we get into the car and the kids get the playlist going and my guys got the tunes going because they just wake up in great spirits, you know, we’re having a blast and by the time we park at the gym, I’m actually pretty awake and ready to go.

Now here’s a little bonus tip of that. One of the things that I love about my new gym strategy, Y’all didn’t think I was even gonna give you that because this is going to transform your brain. How many of you are saying to yourself, gosh, like I would like to worry about my health more? I would like to get into the gym. I would like to do whatever is required to just get more movement in my life. And understand the gym, for those of you who haven’t been there, because a gym can be daunting and uncomfortable. The gym isn’t just workout equipment. It’s not just lifting, right? The gym I go to has like yoga classes and like kickboxing and you know, lots of different things that you can do outside of that. But here’s what I do when I go to the gym. You ready for it? Drum roll. Brrrrr. I walk. I literally walk.

The rule that I made, even when people are like, oh, you go to the gym every day. I’m like, nope, I just go to hang out with my guy. You won’t even catch me saying I go to the gym. Our conversation we’re having right now is literally between girlfriends. I would not tell anybody that I actually go to the gym and I work out. I do not. What I do every morning is I spend time with my fella. That’s what I do. I spend time with my fella every morning. And what does that entail? We arrive at the gym. He goes off to the fancy pants, cool guys, lifting heavy things section, right? Which I just want to be clear, I understand the value of weightlifting. I understand the value of routines and all that. I am just personally not there to each their own journey. Okay?

But he goes off to go lift heavy things. And I’m like, all right, I’ll see you when I see you. And I will turn on that treadmill. And also I will not, I will not feel pressured, right? Because it’s my all, not everybody else’s all. I have to feel my all. Next to me, people could be running a sprint, okay? They could be straight up challenging Usain Bolt’s, you know, world record in sprinting, okay, in the 100-meter dash. It don’t matter to me, okay? They could be the hottest girls at the gym. They could be, you know, the tight 20s that you get out in L.A. Don’t matter. I am putting my stuff on the level that makes me feel comfortable. I don’t need to break out of sweat if that’s the energy I got today. I will pop on my little sermon. Recently, I’ve been listening to the Potter House sermons by TD Jakes or I’ll grab some podcasts. My crew here at Dear Media network has lots of great podies that I get to listen to. I will pop those on and that is what I will do.

I’ll answer email. I’ll post on social. I’ll check in with my assistant. I’ll call my sister. Sometimes if I’m having a conversation that’s really good, and I don’t want to sound out of breath. I will walk slower so I can finish my conversation. By accident, I am literally getting in 4 to 5 miles of walking without even realizing it. Because I’m just going slow and I’m listening and I’m taking my time.

I want you to catch the lesson in all of this. Sometimes it’s not how much you’re doing or how fast you’re doing it. It’s a fact that you’re doing it at all. And if you’re able to say to yourself, look, these small steps all count, and I’m gonna give myself grace and not stress myself out about the pressures and the parameters to do things a certain way, you’re one, gonna be open to the tools that are gonna help you actually get it done.

I got myself great sneakers. These sneakers are changing my life because they’re helping me with my knees and my shoulder, my back alignment. I have a great bra, you know, I got a bountiful set of girls. It’s worth having the investment in great gear Nike makes some of the greatest, you know, like upper body, you know, bras and shirts because they’re built around the support that you need. And I don’t know if you were one of those girls, but I grew up needing like two bras just to even feel comfortable playing sports. And I was a sports girl and athlete. So it’s like nice to not have to think about that. And I just don’t think about it. You know, it all looks good. I throw it on. I feel comfortable and I’m able to just go.

And like, you know, it has just been I didn’t talk about this earlier because I wanted to see if I would do it for a while. You know how people will post like their routine and be like, I’m doing this, this and the next as they’re going, but then they fall off. I was like, I’m going to do this if I can for like 45 days. So it’s been a month and some change before I tell my friends about what I know is working for me because I want to make sure it’s real.

So believe it or not, this magical, super fancy, you know, morning routine is literally based off of not being fancy. This is the regular girl routine, okay? This is like the basic girl, normal mama, hot girl summer system, okay? And it all starts with, we’re going to break it down in bullet point.

First, find a reason why to wake up that actually feels good and stack those reasons. Find as many as you can if it’s like you know what every morning when I wake up early, I’ll have the extra 5 minutes to go to my favorite coffee shop. Hey, every morning when I wake up, I’ll have 5 extra minutes to play with my dog. Like every morning when I wake up, I’m gonna treat myself to watching one episode of Vanderpump Rules that I never get to watch. Whatever it is, maybe it’s all of them. Stack those reasons why, because that will make you want to get up and be like, ooh, I get to watch an episode of that show, right?

Second, make sure that morning goes as smoothly as possible. Let the nighttime you be kind to the morning you. So what does that mean? Figure out your gear like I don’t know about you, but clothing is such a hang up for me. If I know that I have to get dressed. Sometimes I don’t even want to go. So it’s like, if you know that you’ve got like a stack, like I found a brand that I know that I won’t have to think about the clothing. It’s why you hear me dropping Nike. I’m not even kidding. I don’t have to think. I know it’s going to fit. I know it’s going to be comfortable. I know it’s going to look good. I know they’re the only leggings I’ve ever seen that have a drawstring in them. So if you are a curvy girl, which means that, you know, a slightly smaller waist with, you know, a bountiful thigh, if you have that type of shape, I need leggings that are not gonna like, like when I do a squat, I’m not doing squats, let me stop lying. When I bend over to probably grab a donut or tie my shoe. Like I’m not getting like peeping because I’m able to tighten the drawstring on my leggings, but they’re not yoga pants. They’re like a yoga pant, like super support legging hybrid that I’m able to do that and feel comfortable.

So it’s like, you know, get your brand, you know, that you know, is going to be the thing that works for you so that you don’t have to think and then buy the stock that you need so you can just literally reach into your drawer, reach into your closet, throw those on. Get a favorite pair of sneaks or comfy clothing that you know works. Even if you’re just going to do this like athleisure just to walk around or if you’re saying to yourself, no, I just need something easy workout gear. It’s called capsule collections. A lot of like high powered entrepreneurs do this for ease of their brain work. You’ll hear that like Mark Zuckerberg is like, yeah, I just wore like a hoodie and a white t-shirt and jeans. Or you’ll hear bike Steve Jobs always wore a black turtleneck make it simpler for yourself I know some of you are stylistas or you’re, you know, you always want to look really good and you’re very into that and there’s room for that but I just want you to know like when it comes to just getting up, ease, ease, ease really helps, you know?

And then the last part is removing the pressures around what you’re supposed to do now that you’re up. Like, waking up to have a list of where you have to be and what you’re supposed to do is bananas. I will tell you that what has happened is I still end up accomplishing more in my day because I’m still starting my day early. But the reason I’m getting up is not specifically to run into my day. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

You know, if I’m getting up and saying to myself, look, when I show up, because I’m already starting early, everything is a plus. Everything is a bonus. Everything is already a win. So the fact that I’m waking up early and I even get to the gym, good on me. There are even times where, like, I’ve had days where I’ll get there and in the very first week I had a day where I was like look we’ve worked out for I didn’t realize that he was at the gym for 2 hours, I was like it feels like he’s here for so long like why so I finished my whole like you know cycle or whatever on the treadmill and it was like, okay, you walked for an hour. I was like, oh, look at me, I’m doing something.

And I was like, he’s not done yet. He was like, yeah, I have another like 20 minutes of my routine. I’m like, this is crazy. I walked my cute little tail right to the Starbucks, y’all. Sure did. I was like, I’ll be waiting for you over a cup of coffee. And it was great. You know what I mean? Why? Because there’s no rules. There’s no rules. If I go to the gym and one time I went to the gym over the past month and I had a client call that I’d started taking on my treadmill, but I needed to pay attention. So I got off the treadmill. I was only on it for maybe 15, 20 minutes. And I just took my call and I waited until he was done at the end of my call, and we went home. It doesn’t matter. I still got to spend time with him on the way there and the way back. I still got into the gym overall. I still did 20 more minutes of exercise than I would have done. I still felt comfortable and did my routine. Like it was a successful day because I did the things I said I would do, which was just spend time with my why.

And so when I tell you, if you do these 3 things, you will be shocked at how much that will transform your day, but also how much grace and ease and positive feelings you will have about you showing up because we’re called to be so much in our world. We’re called to show up in so many spaces. The last thing we need is to put pressure around ourselves about what we look like or how we do it.

So I hope that helps because it sure is helping me. But I also give myself grace and you should give it to yourself, too, that who knows what next month is going to bring. These kids are crazy and life is crazy, but I’m going to keep it up for as long as I can because it sure is working.

So friend, if you decide to incorporate this in your routine, let me know. If you want to know more about my tips, check the show notes and I might even post a few of my favorite Nike faves. All right. I will talk to you later or catch you on the podcast and if I see you at the gym, say hello.