SEASON 4, EPISODE 24

SHOW NOTES

This whole season we have been talking about surrendering and the peace we can acquire from doing so. In the process of letting go in my own life, I’ve had to confront my habit of over-explaining. To put is simply, I’m not explaining myself, friend!

Are you with me? You know when someone in your life drops the ball and you feel as if you need to equip them with more information so it won’t happen again? Or they are misunderstanding you so you feel as if they need more from you to understand?

Well, that just isn’t it – at least not all the time. Letting others learn the lessons they’re meant to learn is freeing and necessary for everyone involved. Thanks for being here for this chat. Let’s get into it!

Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or watch on Youtube

Season 4, Episode 24

Nicole:

So friends, I want to tell you about something that has changed my life and that I really think is going to create major shifts in yours. Now, I’ll start with a little bit of a story. So if you’ve read Nothing is Missing, which is my New York Times bestselling memoir, I talk a lot about my childhood and how I grew up with a father who, uh, was narcissistic and, um, You know, through his own traumas of his own and honestly, I will say some of it I think is kind of cultural and but that’s a conversation for another day, but in African culture, there’s this concept called tiger parenting.

Tiger parenting is the American westernized term for it, and you may be familiar with it, but tiger parenting is basically you are raising adults, not children. And so what that means conceptually is that your sole job as a parent is to raise these children by treating them like tiny adults.

So, I personally believe that it’s a little of column A, a little of column B, right? You want to make sure your kids are being taught the skills that they need to have in order to survive in the world, right? We don’t want to raise entitled little brats who are walking around feeling like everyone owes them something and that they aren’t responsible to anyone.

But, because, you know, evolution, growing up in America, if you will, or just better exposure to the value of therapy, I really understand the importance of empathy and emotional intelligence and that’s a huge part of how I raise my kids as well, is making sure they understand that they have privilege and that they’re, they need to extend others grace and that they need to spend time listening and hearing what other people are dealing with.

And so. All of those things being said, I didn’t grow up with any of that. And I think a lot of us can relate to that, whether you are, have old school Southern parents or parents that grew up just a flat out different generation or immigrant parents. You know, tiger parenting is really, really, really common.

And what ends up being the outcome of tiger parenting can affect kids in different ways. So if you were the elder child, if, and you guys, y’all can Google this. They’re so, So much like documentation and just it’s amazing the evolution of information that’s coming out in relation to this Because and I hate to say it but our generation’s getting older, right?

So we’re finally the ones writing the papers and we’re writing about what matters to us But if you were the elder child This style of parenting whether it was full blown narcissism or just a cultural clash of values and parenting methods but what happens is that You’ve become almost parentified and parentification is basically your job is to stand in the role of the parent.

So it’s not just this sort of latchkey kid concept, where, you know, you came home, your parents dropped you off, and you, you know, kind of took care of yourself and fended for yourself after school, and maybe then you played games, or ran down to the lake, or climbed trees. No, this is like full on parent to father.

Which means you raised your siblings and sometimes you had to, especially in immigrant households, act as a translator or go pay bills or you know, maybe even get a job early. And you know, that leads to tons of different traumas. However, if you were the elder child in particular, or the only child, a lot of the trauma related things that come from this style of parenting or exposure.

are celebrated in our society. We are seen as being the hyper productive, perfectionist, overachievers. I mean, you’re the ones with eight Ph. D. s or you’re the super moms or you’re highly functional people. But we usually also have like a crippling anxiety, you’re overworked, you have an inclination to be burnt out, you are, over committed, you know, all the time and you over deliver often, but usually at the expense of your own wellness.

Now, I know we jumped right in there. I’m going to pause for a sec. Some of you are hearing all of that and saying, Nicole. Ease up. I did not ask to be attacked on this episode. Okay? Okay, I get it. This is me. Right? Or you’re married to this person. Or you are siblings with this person. Or you see this person at work.

Now, another thing that happens as a byproduct of this sort of, uh, It is a form of trauma. Traumatic background is even though the outcome in your life may be that you have the house and the car and all these things, you may suffer in terms of balance and joy and energy and wellness, but one of the other things that is a common outcome that I’m starting to learn about that is just changing my life is These people are, and I say these people, that sounds so weird, me, me included, hand raised, but, uh, people who’ve had exposure to this sort of background often are, um, huge people pleasers.

And people pleasers are, uh, people who worry so much about, again, that perfectionism aspect, making sure that they’re making people happy, they’re, uh, people with flexi boundaries, you know, so their boundaries are one where they are more than willing to, you know, sacrifice themselves on the behalf of others.

easily subjected to being manipulated and or feeling heavily guilty if they aren’t meeting others expectations, whether or not that is in alignment with their own. it is a really unfortunate byproduct because you basically are that person who is such a hard worker and then people who may be less than that.

thin hard workers will attach themselves to you and like, leech off of you, right? And I know right now some of y’all are nodding your head like, no, not me. Yes, I’m exhausted. And one of the things that I learned is a very common attribute that I really want to focus on today that I’ve been working on in the past, I’d say like six months or so, um, is overexplaining, like overexplaining your feelings, overexplaining, what you mean, uh, over explaining when you, when you feel like you’re misunderstood.

And again, heavy emphasis on feel like you’re misunderstood. And I say that we’ll actually just address that part now. A lot of times in this situation, you may feel like you’re misunderstood when people understand you perfectly well. That was a sentence my therapist said to me. And when I tell you, it changed my life.

It changed my life. My therapist was like, Nicole, I want you to know that people can understand you perfectly well. They can know that you are right. They can understand that what you’re saying is clear. They can understand that what you’re saying makes sense and they can still be choosing to misunderstand you and do whatever they want to do because that’s just what they want to do.

When I tell you the freedom I had from that, I’m going to say it again briefly for those of y’all who didn’t catch it the first time, People can know that what you are saying makes sense. That it is practical and that you are correct and it is even in their interest to do the thing you are telling them to do and they can still do what they want to do, cause harm to themselves and others and not care and look you in the face and act like you’re wrong.

I was like, how is that possible? That doesn’t seem logical. What are you talking about? No, sometimes people just want to do what they want to do. They don’t care if it makes sense or not. And when I tell you, I was so freed when I, when it really just like sank in. Like, no, some people just like mess. And for those of y’all who are under 40, I hope that this really is meeting you at the right time and you get to benefit from the over 40 crowd.

Because over 40 crowd, this is something that just comes into your life in general. Because over 40, you get a certain level of tired and exhausted where you don’t have the energy to even get into it with people as much. So the blessing I’ve had in the past six months is as I’m You know, healthily in this 40 year old club, I’m a natural energy of doing less with others hot mess, right?

But this over explaining thing that I used to do looked like this. I would have Disagreements with people in my life, various relationships, anything from family to people I’m like dating or, employees, you know, where people would come to me and they would disappoint, right?

Disappoint or let me down, or they would fail to do something that they agreed to do, or they would fail to do something that is generally understood by the masses as a moral or ethical obligation, right? Like, this is just, and I’m just talking about things that are like, not of question, right? Like, oh, you said you would pay that bill on time?

Obviously you would do it. You did not do it, and thus we have an issue, right? And what would happen is, I, of course, would say, this is surprising to me that this thing didn’t occur. Was there a misunderstanding around said task? Did we not, like, because grace, right? Benefited the doubt. Where, what happened here, right?

What happened here that this thing did not occur? And I know for some of y’all right now, you’re like, exactly, right? The grace is asking what happened here. And then said party, you know, in whatever manifestation of these moments would then proceed to give me A variety of reasons, like, you know, well, I didn’t have all my information or, oh, I started, but I ran into this problem or, oh, I wanted to, but you know, this other thing came up or, oh, I’m suddenly overwhelmed or, oh, I, you know, failed to communicate, blah, blah, blah, or, oh, you know, you didn’t give me enough time or whatever the thing was, right?

And so then what would happen, and here’s a shift from where I was and where I am, right? What would happen is I would then proceed. To try to re explain what the original task was, make sure I really asked a lot of questions and understood where the, where the failing was. Which often led to a situation where that person would, I guess, in their awareness of maybe how unaligned their response is, is a nice way I can say it.

Understanding that, like, look, like there’s no excuse for me not doing the thing I’m supposed to do, right? Like, just kind of, because people would dance all day around, like, the fact of the matter. So, I, and they would just sit there and explain it. And I would just get into these circles, oh lord, these circles of, like, just going back and forth, back and forth, you know, with this person.

When ultimately, again, we’re talking about what was and what is, I would then realize, oh, I don’t even need to say all that. The thing was not done. And getting to the point of understanding where things are clear or where I feel like they clearly understand what I’m saying and they’re not putting this back on me as something that I needed to figure out that, you know, whether the failing is mine and communication or theirs, the task did not happen.

That could have happened in two seconds. Or even better, if a person telling me they want to do something, because also, I’ll just own this, this even comes up in my relationship. And I don’t think Alex will mind that I’m telling this story, you know, where, And ladies, you’ll understand this too in your partnerships, you’ll watch your, your, your guy wanting to do something and it’s something you ask them to do, but you know, for a fact that the way they’re approaching it is going to result in surefire disaster, or it’s going to result in additional hardship or more work or whatever, but at the end of the day, you ask them to do it.

And so, and you don’t want to do it. So you have to figure out a way to sit there and let them do it their own way and be okay with it. And that is something I have really worked on in my present relationship. And, um, and it’s been a real blessing because I’ve grown as a person in general in recognizing that I cannot sit here and over explain to him how it needs done because that is as much mental labor and exhaustion as him just doing it.

So, Even when he comes to me and he says, like, there’ll be, especially because I do business, y’all, you know, he’ll come to me because he’s an entrepreneur as well, or, you know, he works for himself. He will say, um, Oh, well, I’m thinking of taking this thing on and I will want to business him down. I’ll be like, you need this step, this step, this step, this thing needs to happen.

And I’m like, why am I even explaining all this? Because he just wants, he’s going to go and do what he wants to do on some level. He’s going to do what he wants to do. Why am I even? And so I’ve just started being like, okay, well, that sounds great. The freedom I get from just letting people be, letting them sit in what they want to sit in, letting them work through their issues.

Y’all, when I tell you today on today, free yourself. Let people live in their mess if they want to be in their mess. Let people misunderstand you if they are committed to misunderstanding you. Let people think whatever they want to think about you. Uh, if you listen to, I think. Maybe three or four episodes ago, um, I actually had Alex on here and we were chatting about sort of the baby process, you know, how we’re really making changes in our lives and we are really trying to make sure our, our home, our spirit, our energy, our bodies are all the way together so that when, um, the time comes to really start this baby journey, that we are as prepared as one can be for babies.

And I have to tell you, one of the biggest things I’ve been working on is not allowing people to get my blood pressure up. Like, people are not going to stress me out, not on today, not when, not when I want my body to be a vessel that can safely cook without additional stress and anxiety this child, right?

So if I’m going to let my body be that, that also means I’ve really got to accept that People are going to come at you left, right. There’s going to be all these sorts of things, even in the work day. Like, you’ll get on the phone and you’ll be like, Oh my gosh, I’ve got, you know, 15 calls to make. I just need everyone to be where they need to be.

And there’s definitely going to be something that’s thrown off. And I can’t get invested in, uh, over explaining or going through all these different steps to make sure things happen and also recognizing that through both Jesus, Lord, please help me, you know, and therapy, Lord, I need to help myself, right?

I have got to acknowledge that the, the need for I wouldn’t call it perfection, but precision, as well as the desire to make sure that I am meeting all my marks so that I don’t let people down because I’m responsible to a lot of people, my, my, my spouse, my kids, my community, you know, there’s only so much I can do.

So friends, here’s a couple of places that this may be showing up in your life right now with your kids. I gotta tell you, the surrender of letting your kids make the mess and learn is real. It’s, I feel like it’s a little bit easier when they’re younger because the messes are a little bit more predictable, a little bit more manageable, and at the end of the day you can, you know, kind of pick them up and move them.

Like, little meaning like, you know, 10 and under, right? Like toddlery, you can just like pick them up and move them. So you see them carrying something that they maybe shouldn’t be carrying because it’s a little bit too many things and you know it’s going to spill, but you let them kind of live and then you’ll, you’ll pick it up and clean it up.

But now they’ve learned. But I also mean like even in some of the teenage year stuff, like Puffin came in the other day and she’s, you know, our Allie is our 12 year old and she is, she turns 13 this year. So she’s in full on teen mode. And, If you know anything about natural hair, I used to be a curly hair blogger, uh, really, really, uh, kinky, curly, tight, coiled hair, um, is not something that you can wear down, like not in braids or put away, very often because if you do it, it tangles, um, and it just requires a lot of management and products.

She is now starting to experiment more because she’s fully in that teen girl age where she wants to wear different Hairstyles and she you know likes to play in her hair a little bit more. She’s getting more independence around that But for the most part, I’m still doing her hair, you know and keeping up her styles just to make sure that You know, she doesn’t deal with like knots and tangles and things of that sort.

Well, we kind of, we’re starting to split the responsibility so that she can, you know, put it in a ponytail here and there and do different things as she learns and takes on responsibility. Well, for the very first time last week, I um, you know, come out for breakfast in the morning before she leaves for school and she’s got her hair just like kind of out in a full front.

And one of the things I said to her was, Hey, you know, your hair looks super cute. I mean, you look great like this, and I love this style on you. Um, however, you know, we’ve talked a little bit about, you know, how important it is to maintain our hair being detangled, and that’s actually part of why we do protective styling, is to make sure our hair stays healthy because it’s put away.

So, um, I know that you’re excited to wear your hair out in a fro and, you know, you have the freedom to do that. However, I do want to let you know there may be some outcomes that you did not expect in doing this at the end of the day. And she kind of looks at me and she’s like, okay, because teenager. And I’m like, yeah, you know, I was like, so, you know, some of those outcomes may be that you’ll have additional detangling.

You may need to wash it. Your hair is going to get a little bit drier, you know, and a lot of the things you don’t enjoy about hair maintenance, you’re going to have a lot of at the end of the day, if you wear your hair out. And she’s like, okay, well, I don’t, I don’t see the problem. Now pause on a minute.

Right? This is a place where mama could have gotten into detail. She could have pulled up YouTube videos. She could have illustrated or I could have taken the other mama route, which is please just go do what I say because I said it. Now I want to let you know that’s not the route I ever take with my kids.

I, I’m really big on if you’re old enough to ask the question, you’re old enough to get the answer. But the part that I’m doing for my own personal growth is surrendering people to learn their own lessons as they deserve. And so, um, you know, I, I said, you know what? You’re right. If you feel comfortable, that’s totally fine.

Um, I can share with you that, you know, the outcome may be a little bit more than you anticipate, but, if you need to cross that bridge when you get there, that’s totally fine. Have a great, you know, have a great day. You do look beautiful no matter what. And so she decides to wear her hair out, and as expected, you know, hair’s super tangled.

as anyone who has curly hair or frizzy hair knows, like, the way it starts in the morning is not how it ends up at the end of the day. And so she comes back in and she is just like, don’t even say anything. And just like goes back to her room and changes her hair and, you know, uh, watches it, puts it back and all that.

And it has been put away for the rest of the week. And she has, you know, learned. what she needed to learn in her processing. And I have to tell you, not saving and rescuing people from learning the lesson that God has for them is one of the kindest things you can do. And um, it can be tough sometimes, right?

With our kids, especially as they get older. And again, if you read my book, Nothing is Missing, you know that this is something I’ve gone through with through all ages, not just a teenager with a ponytail, but my older girls who are 24 and dealing with things like recovery, you know, My eldest one, she is now a little over a year sober, and I’m so, so proud of her.

And, you know, she’s got her own place and her own car and she’s been at her job for a while. I mean, she’s really stepping into adulthood, but, you know, that didn’t come without challenges. and I fully take responsibility in my mom role where, you know, I really wanted to help her as much as possible.

And there are times where I really have to reconcile that. I hope I didn’t delay her, um, even though I facilitated her entry into, you know, rehabilitation and, you know, detox and that process, uh, when she finally came to me and was ready. I think of all the times before where she was struggling and had difficult moments and, I went to her rescue, you know, whether it was restocking her fridge or helping with her housing or, you know, something of that sort, you know, and parenting in that capacity because at the time it felt right.

I don’t have guilt about it because I think I did the right thing with what I had then and and it was the right thing overall because of where she is now, um, but sometimes I look at it and I think of how much I’ve developed both as a parent and a person. And I think, gosh, how many times and what would the outcome have been if she had to absorb the fullness of that situation?

and, you know, this stage of my life where. because of my own health and well being, I can’t help but let people absorb the fullness of their situation, uh, which includes not benefiting, ooh, I just had a whole moment, ooh, ooh, word y’all, not benefiting from the attributes that I’ve had to develop in order to save myself, right, by choosing to opt out of their drama and not save them when they’re in what they’re in.

And I really want to extend that to you as well. And, you know, over explaining is just one element of it, but y’all, We have these people in our lives who are so used to using us as crutches, you know, and are so used to, you know, having us step in there and we don’t even realize we’re doing it because, one, I mean, all the society stuff around how women are supposed to be nurturers and caregivers and, you know.

You know, we’re supposed to give until we can’t give no more, especially if you’re a Christian, you know, just, Oh, give, give, give. Right. And I don’t say it like it’s a bad thing, but like, gosh, not to, not to your last, you know, like not where you don’t have enough for the rest of your children or, you know, for your own health and wellbeing.

And y’all, I can’t tell you the transformation of me saying someone is old enough. where they can absorb the fullness of their actions, and they can save themselves. And even better, if they don’t save themselves in this situation, the learning experience and the consequences and the lessons of this will be so tremendous in redirecting their lives.

I don’t want to spare them the lesson God’s trying to teach them. And aside from that, I think I don’t want to exert the extra energy of trying to explain what is to come. I don’t want to exert the extra energy of trying to help them see what they don’t want to see. And there’s levels to this. You know, there’s levels to letting go, to that surrender, to that relinquishing, to not trying to rescue.

Even that co worker at work, y’all, how many of y’all will stay late doing that extra work for that co worker and covering because you’re like, well, I don’t want the company, blah, blah, blah, or I don’t want this. Y’all, it ain’t your company. They’re not paying you extra to save them, and that person’s still going to take the credit.

And now you’re just showing up extra tired at home for your kids. Please. There’s nothing wrong with giving a little if you think that it’s going to be reciprocated, but half the time, you’re not getting any reciprocity. If anything, you’re borrowing from the bank of your own wellness. And I think that that cost, that price, It’s a little bit too high.

So friends, I know that we have so much pride in being the go to. I know that it can feel so good to know that you can step into a situation and, and have the answer. And on many levels, we’ve, we’ve only ever operated this way. So we don’t know any other way to be, but I want to let you know there’s levels to this.

It’s not just about letting go and surrendering. It’s also about realizing that it isn’t even always your job to point people in the right direction. Sometimes, not only is the journey theirs, but so is drawing the path to get there.

 

In this episode, we chat about:

• Why I’ve stopped explaining myself, always, to others,
• How doing so has given me so much freedom and may for you too,
• Why we tend to over-explain, and
• What to do if you find yourself explaining to others over and over again

Resources and links mentioned in this episode:

• Let’s connect on Instagram HERE
• Grab my New York Times Bestselling memoir, Nothing is Missing, HERE!
• Book a 20 min call to see if working together is the right next step for you!
• Did you build a life that burns you out consistently? Friend, I’ve been there! Listen here or watch here.
• I love reading your reviews of the show! You can share your thoughts on Apple here!

More about The Nicole Walters Podcast:

If you’re looking for the strategies and encouragement to pursue a life of purpose, this is the podcast for you! Week after week Nicole Walters will have you laughing hysterically while frantically taking notes as she shares her own personal stories and answers your DMs about life, business, and everything in between.

As a self-made multimillionaire and founder of the digital education firm, Inherit Learning Company, Nicole Walters is the “tell-it-like-it-is” best friend that you can’t wait to hang out with next.

When Nicole shows up, she shows OUT, so tune in each week for a laugh, a best friend chat, plus the strategies and encouragement you need to confidently live a life of purpose.

Follow Nicole on IG @NicoleWalters and visit inheritlearningcompany.com today and click the button to join our betterment community. Your membership gives you access to a world of people and tools focused on helping you build the life you want.

SEASON 4, EPISODE 22

SHOW NOTES

Friend, you know I love learning and that personal growth is at the center of our chats here. With that said, I’m seeing a trend that I can’t get behind. That trend? It’s wellness privilege. Any time we’re helping one another grow, we have to do it from a place of grace and not shame. And shame is what I’m seeing all over social media.

Let’s chat about what should be our number one priority and how it may differ from the people around us. Shake off the shame and let’s chat.

Thanks for being here, friend! I want to hear your thoughts over on IG @‌NicoleWalters !

Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or watch on Youtube

Season 4, Episode 22

Nicole:

Hey friends, so I want to dive right in because this topic has been on my heart and I’ve been feeling really strongly about it. Actually, I’ve been talking my friend’s ears off about it and the reason why is I’ve noticed this thing that’s happening around the internet and I hope you can understand and relate with this as well.

Now, we’ve all heard about the people who talk about focusing on material goods and flexing things on the internet and let’s, let’s just be, let’s keep it all the way real. We’re not seeing as much of that luxury lifestyle flex. I know I’m not the only one you remember in the sort of, I would say like the 2019 pre pandemic y time where people were taking photos in their closets with their handbags and, you know, showing pictures of themselves in front of mansions with cars and things like that.

And frankly, I don’t know if it’s just my timeline, if the algorithm knows I don’t play like that, but it really feels like there’s been almost a purge of that because we know it’s in bad taste. And why is it in bad taste? Because this economy is not playing like that. If you listen to last week’s episode where I was talking about, not pinching our pennies, but being really mindful around the value of where our pennies go, you understand just as much as anyone else,

it really doesn’t matter what your tax bracket is right now. You are feeling the pinch. And here’s what I mean by that. Obviously, billionaires don’t feel the pinch the same way as those of us that are living below the poverty line. But even they’re saying to themselves, can’t get the extra island, can’t get the yacht, right?

Like, what? We’re all feeling it, right? And this is, again, not throwing sympathy towards those who have plenty. That is not what I’m doing right now. I’m just saying it is a universal thing that we’re all experiencing the impacts of inflation or at least seeing what it’s like. And we talked about that last week, you know, and if you haven’t listened to that episode, Get back over there, listen to it, because I offer some really rock solid tips on how to lessen the pinch and up the knowledge while kind of traversing and living through this time.

But I want to talk about something that is not just money related, but it is almost a universal mindset. thing that I’m seeing happen that’s driving me nuts. And it’s called wellness shaming. Now, I don’t know if this is a technical term or if it’s just, it’s the way that I can think of it. And I don’t use shaming lightly, right?

Because I know that there is sort of an element of people attaching that word to anything that makes people like uncomfortable, like, oh, well, your body’s shaming. I feel like people have gotten kind of cavalier around what it means to carry shame. And I don’t want to minimize the power of it. But wellness shaming is this, to me, this is how I’ve seen it.

There is so much talk now about Clean living, clean eating, clean makeup, clean skincare, clean household products, clean, clean, clean. And I don’t say these things because they’re not important. I, I really, cause y’all, people will come for you in the comments. I’m not trying to get canceled up in here, you know, but what I’m trying to get at is, There is this huge shift away from the luxury lifestyle, the fancy pants flex and all of that to doing less with more.

Minimalistic. I mean, have you guys ever heard about like the beige moms where they don’t even use color? Everything’s beige, right? Neutralized all the things. And first and foremost, raise, raising my hand. I think we’ve all ascribed to some element of this, you know, anything that allows me to do less because I’m a hot mess I receive.

But, but. I also think there’s this thing that I see, particularly amongst the wealthy, or those who are more privileged. And when I say privileged, I mean not just from non marginalized communities, but also privileged in platform, or privileged in visibility, or privileged in access, or class, or pretty privilege, you know, where They have more and they have an opportunity to access more where it has become popularized in saying, well, I don’t care about stuff.

I care about wellness. Yeah, you know, I mean, we used to do, you know, all these trips and we used to do all these things and now, honestly, I just drink my smoothie every morning and then I do my hot yoga and my tea routine and then I do 15, a 15 piece skincare routine and then I go on two and a half mile walks and then I do all these things and I say all of this, I know you can hear my tone, I’m, I don’t mean to come across as being sarcastic, I just mean that it’s all kind of blending into this one big big sound for me, this cacophony, this humdrum, this usual noise of, I am better because I have tossed aside the, the exploits, the luxuries, the fancy pants ness of things.

And all I care about is biohacking and, you know, my, my blood count and like all these little things, right? And what I’m saying is it’s not that these things are not important. Hear me loud and proud, Lord knows I want to see value and I celebrate.

The management of our health. When I tell you cancer is real, it sucks, I have been personally affected by it, and it is terrifying. Anything we can do and learn and apply to minimize our risk and exposure to anything that can hurt or harm our bodies and reduce our lifestyle, our life length, we should do.

anything at all. And when I tell you, as someone who grew up with nothing and has benefited and experienced the joys of having a financially free lifestyle, you know, it’s, it’s better, it feels better being rich than poor. You know, like that is a true statement that if any rich person tries to convince you, you don’t want that, please suffer.

It’s, it’s in your interest. They’re lying. Like that, there’s a reason why the wealthy have all the money and are hesitant to give it up, and it’s because it feels better to have money. Your life is still difficult, right? I’m not ignoring that there are difficulties that come with the privilege of wealth, but it is a privilege nonetheless.

What I’m getting at is this idea that we can say, yeah, you know, I just. I don’t wear fancy stuff. I just do, like, white tees and jeans because, you know, I’m just into, like, really, like, clean fabrics and all that. But, like, your white tee costs 180 and your jeans cost, like, you know, 300. And that’s what you’re advertising.

Now, for all my regular folk out there, you know exactly what I’m talking about. You know, I grew up with nothing. Like, grew up with nothing, completely self made, and when I say self made, I mean I did not have the assistance of investors. I did not have loans. I did not have a trust fund. I did not have an inheritance.

I did not borrow money from my spouse. I did not have partners. I did not have kickbacks. I literally went from taking one dollar and then earning that dollar high enough to buy the next piece of equipment that earned me more money and so on and so forth. Every single dollar that comes in, I touched and made myself, um, obviously with the help of my team and the blessing of God, right?

But nonetheless, touch and made myself. And so it’s difficult for me to be blessed to be invited into certain rooms, you know, where I get to see these very wealthy people live very expensive existences and do things And spend their money in certain ways where they’re able to have very, like, they choose to spend their money on very fancy cars and ridiculous households, but then sit there and say, but I only buy the most organic forms of meat because health is what matters most.

Like sir. Like ma’am. Like, let’s keep it real. You have incredibly expensive things and you live a very fancy lifestyle, but you’re, you’re holding up the banner of wellness when in reality you are flexing in a different way to give it the appearance of being more accessible to the average person. But the truth is it’s still just as inaccessible as the Lamborghini you drive.

And here’s why it’s inaccessible. So this is, this conversation is both for those of you out there who feel like, You are still in the outskirts, but you’re not understanding why it looks this way, but you still can’t access it. Right. And this conversation is also for those of you who are, are part of this, you know, who are living this lifestyle and flexing without acknowledging that this is not as accessible as you think.

So in extending grace to all, here’s the truth of it. Not all of us can afford a 15 piece skincare system. Like, it’s expensive. And not just that, but the time, and heck, even the counter space. I mean, Some of us don’t even realize that there are little tiny places where your privilege is evident that You don’t even realize because you haven’t done without.

I’m going to give you a simple example of this. When I watch people doing their skincare routines on TikTok and I see that they’re doing them on glamorous marble countertops with multi shelving and tiered access and refrigerated skin cream and all of these things and gorgeous mirrors that are backlit with ring lights.

You don’t even realize that the people who are watching this sometimes are balancing their toothbrush on a sink. And they don’t even have room for their toothpaste. Like, you don’t even realize the privilege of the extra space of a countertop to hold the weight of your five, piece, you know, moisturization portion of your regimen, you know, and I’m not saying this to chastise that you have, especially for some of you who’ve earned being in that position, that you have these routines, and I’m not saying this to chastise, you know, people who decide to share these routines. It is glorious and beautiful that we live in an information age where we’re able to share information.

It is a wonderful thing. I’m saying that More so than ever before, it has become critically important that we issue sensitivity and awareness that we do not all have a same shared existence and that we actively avoid shaming people by saying things like, you may be focused on getting a bigger house or getting a nicer car, but you know, really what matters is that you’re eating gluten free and that you have a, you know, vegan diet.

That sentence may make sense in your privileged world, but that sentence does not make sense into the person who’s living in a one bedroom apartment with a family of four or five and driving a car that is 10 years outdated. They need the nicer house and they need the nicer car. And it is a priority because they do not have the funds to necessarily have the meals and the grain fed and that where they’re putting their money makes sense.

And so it’s not them flexing to be able to improve their Maslow’s hierarchy of needs of better housing or, uh, doing the best they can. And it is not a lack of caring or understanding or appreciation or awareness for them to say, look, we buy. the regular meat at the market, you know, and we do serve a frozen pizza once a week because that’s what we have to feed our family.

And it’s our special treat because we do not have the budget to dine out. You know, it’s not wrong of them to feel really special and to feel like it is a meaningful flex in this sad economy that they have a full grocery cart. I remember every two weeks growing up that, um, We would go grocery shopping at home.

So if you’re from the D. C. Maryland area, you probably remember like BJ’s Wholesale Club. And I think they still have them in general, but that’s my mom’s shopping place of choice. She wasn’t a Costco girl. She was a BJ’s girl. And every two weeks when the paycheck would come in, I remember how thread bare And just thin our fridge would get.

I mean, it would get down to the bottom dredges of the milk, and we would be all out of anything special that would be like juice or anything like that. I mean, I could see, just as some context, I could see clear to the back of our fridge in many spaces because shelves were empty. And the blessing was, they only became empty within a day or two before the check came in.

That’s not the case for everyone. For some people, they’re always empty, right? So, I would notice that they would start being threadbare, but then it would be time to go grocery shopping. And we would do our big grocery shopping every two weeks. And that would mean we would go and we would restock on everything we could.

And I remember back then we would spend, because I remember seeing the number come up, anywhere between 175 to 300. And this was like late 90s, early 2000s. So right now, if you’re not aware, because you’re so privileged as we just get what we need, or we UberEAT, or we Instacart, you know. Groceries right now for families are hitting up on the cost of daycare.

Like, it is literally an either or choice. They’re spending 1, 000 to 1, 500 to feed families of four or five. I am not making this number up. You know, and, and that is with the basics. That is buying bulk. That is, you know, letting some things go that is buying a discount meat that is picking up the packaging to look for what’s a few cents less.

You know, this is a very real existence for so many people. And I just want to be transparent as well. You know, this is something that even I engage in and whether you call it, you know, the trauma of poverty, but I’m used to it. It’s where I choose to save my pennies. We still cook our meals. We still cook in bulk.

I still look and I try not to, you know, overspend on certain items. And I take a lot of pride in the fact that I cook because it not only helps, you know, feed my family as best as I can and as well and as healthily as I can, but it also helps us save money. And I don’t care how much money you make, you should be looking at saving money wherever you can.

So that said, we go grocery shopping. And I remember the process of loading up the cart with, you know, sacks of rice and, you know, different things. cuts of chicken so my mom can make stews and, you know, helping her pick out tomatoes to get ones that were a little firm so they wouldn’t go bad during the week because they were too ripe and being really aware of how many.

And for some of y’all, I know that this is ringing true right now, taking extra grapes out of the grape sack because they’re, you know, 3. 99 a pound or whatever. And we only had enough to spend on this amount. I also remember putting stuff back when we got to the You register because it was just a little bit more rang up at a different price point.

And when I tell you that this is a very real, unwavering reality for so many people, that the sheer idea of feeding your family is something where you are trying to make decisions around how much and, and how much in terms of quantity and cost I can afford to then say that you care less. or that you are not as aware or you’re not as evolved or that you are deprioritizing because you aren’t checking to also see if that meat is grain fed, holistically raised, non bovine hugged, you know, whatever the categories.

It would be a blessing to be able to offer all of that. And as much as people want to say, but what else matters more? What else matters more than your wellness? If you’re not alive and and eating well, that is your priority. You’re right. It is a priority except for the fact that the lights have to stay on to begin with.

Because nothing will even stay and keep in that fridge if the lights are not paid. Is it a priority over making sure you’re paying for the medication for your child who was born a diabetic, and it doesn’t matter what class of life that you have, and that those meds are in shortage, so now you have to go to different pharmacies and pay various prices because of healthcare?

Like, make no mistake, it is such a privilege. And I also, I’m gonna hold my own feet to the fire. If I am guilty of ever making anyone ever feel like they’re deprioritizing their family because it’s what they really care about is that they would worry about their wellness or worry about their business or whatever else, please, I extend in advance before y’all search me up on Twitter from when I, what I said when I was 19 years old or whatever, I claim and call out in advance.

Nothing matters more. than doing the best you can for your family. And you deserve all the grace in the face of the people out here who are constantly inundating you with content around if you are not focused on this sort of lifestyle, that you’re not doing enough. Make your incremental progress. That is what you can do.

So this is the assignment, right? If you’re one of those families that I’m talking about here, that is struggling. And even if you’re not struggling, you’re, you’re making it work, right? Like the ends barely meet. Then the thing that matters most is that you just keep trying. And if you find that in that extra month, you’ve got a little bit of anything extra and you’ve already saved and you’ve already put it towards the goals for the basic growth that you can get.

And you’re able to say, you know what? Let’s try. a different type of milk or let’s try a few more grains or plant based things or let’s try a different cut of meat like Bravo. And if you find that for Christmas or for a holiday, you decide to ask for the nicer skincare thing because you want to try something different.

Amazing. That is wonderful. And I’m proud of you for saying that with my extra, instead of maybe dipping into something that might have been more of a luxury item. I’m trying to get something that improves my wellness. That is a brilliant and brave move. But I also don’t want to shame you. Or make you feel bad for doing something nice for yourself, like getting that handbag, or buying that piece of jewelry, or investing in a nicer prom for your child, because you may not get to take trips on big vacations, and you may not be able to count on the fact that you had a huge wedding or whatever, but you want your daughter to have the nicest prom ever, because that is a meaningful experience, do not feel bad that that is where you spent your extra money.

And do not feel shamed, at least, if you are comfortable with that decision making, because that’s where the value was for you. And then for people like me and people like you who may have platforms or have the opportunity to speak into the lives of people who are making these types of decisions and still want to be seen where they are, where they may be cutting back on certain experiences and spending in other areas.

We can continue to share what we’re learning. We can continue to share about clean makeup and clean skincare and amazing baby products and that awareness around growth and, you know, spending on therapy and spending on, you know, valuable exercises and tools. Continue to share about that because knowledge is empowering and it changes lives.

And I love hearing about people grow and learn more to get better. But always do it from a perspective of grace and not shame. Always do it from a place where you’re able to say, look, I used to be like this before. And with this new information, I have learned this and I recognize that everyone is on their own journey and doing the best they can give people that grace and then introduce the idea and say, maybe this is a step that you can take when you’re able.

Because understand that if there is anything that we don’t need more of in this world, When we are all caring so much and doing the absolute best we can is more shame.

 

In this episode, we chat about:

• How wellness privilege is shaming others,
• Why we have to teach each other from a place of grace and not shame,
• Why this topic gets to me, and
• How to align your actions with what matters MOST to you

Resources and links mentioned in this episode:

• Let’s connect on Instagram HERE
• Grab my New York Times Bestselling memoir, Nothing is Missing, HERE!
• Book a 20 min call to see if working together is the right next step for you!
• In this economy?! Don’t miss our chat about the changes I’m making to make all the money count right now! Listen here or watch here.
• I love reading your reviews of the show! You can share your thoughts on Apple here!

More about The Nicole Walters Podcast:

If you’re looking for the strategies and encouragement to pursue a life of purpose, this is the podcast for you! Week after week Nicole Walters will have you laughing hysterically while frantically taking notes as she shares her own personal stories and answers your DMs about life, business, and everything in between.

As a self-made multimillionaire and founder of the digital education firm, Inherit Learning Company, Nicole Walters is the “tell-it-like-it-is” best friend that you can’t wait to hang out with next.

When Nicole shows up, she shows OUT, so tune in each week for a laugh, a best friend chat, plus the strategies and encouragement you need to confidently live a life of purpose.

Follow Nicole on IG @NicoleWalters and visit inheritlearningcompany.com today and click the button to join our betterment community. Your membership gives you access to a world of people and tools focused on helping you build the life you want.

SEASON 4, EPISODE 20

SHOW NOTES

One thing we have to get good at is making choices; choices that are in alignment with who we are and where we are going. One of the most common questions I’m getting in the DMs is if YOU should get divorced.

Making choices like this is easier said than done though, right? In seasons of transition and growth, making the right choice can keep us up at night.

Friend, if you relate to that, this chat with Myesha Chaney is for you! Myesha has a fool-proof system to help you make better choices and to get unstuck.

From TV star to starting over post-divorce, Myesha’s life has given her the opportunities to grow and align herself with who she needed to be, for herself.

Don’t miss this chat where Myesha shares how you can discover your built-in values, make better decisions, and realize your next season of life!

Thanks for being here to do the work, friend. Connect with Myesha and I over on Instagram at @‌MyeshaChaney and @‌NicoleWalters.

Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or watch on Youtube

Season 4, Episode 20

Nicole Walters: Hello, everyone. So, I have gone through some major transitions in the past couple weeks. Um, I’m planning for a massive wedding. And by massive, I mean I would be content to get married with like three people present and we are having a hundred people there.

Nicole Walters: And I am excited to go on a honeymoon for two weeks and I am excited about all these big things. So if you’ve been following along on Instagram, you saw the That I, uh, went wedding dress shopping and just so many big changes are afoot. And if you heard last week’s episode, you also know we’re prepping and planning for baby, which is, I mean, you know how I am.

Nicole Walters: I like to do it all and I like to do it big. But the number one question that I’ve been getting in my DMs during this process of everyone seeing me dive full on headfirst into my, you know, newer, fancier, better aligned life is, Nicole, how did you know? When your marriage was over, like, how did you know that it was time to step out?

Nicole Walters: And I know that this comes up a lot because so many of us are in places of transition. And when I say step out, I mean, not just your marriage, the job, your marriage, the friendship, you know, like even being a mom, I’m stay at home. How do I know I need to return back to the workforce? And all this boils down to is just big decision making.

Nicole Walters: And I know how I make my decisions. It’s really and truly not something I struggle with. I may struggle with the anxiety and the nerves around moving forward, but I don’t actually struggle with the decision itself, right? Like, I figure it out. I add some plan to it and I get moving. So, I decided to tap one of my dear best good friends who is brilliant.

Nicole Walters: She is smart. She is wise. She is a star of Preachers of LA that aired on Oxygen. I know everybody watched it. We all watched it. And, um, there was like the Atlanta franchise, the Chicago franchise. And so she is, you know, TV star. She’s an author. She’s written an incredible book called Hidden Behind the Lipstick.

Nicole Walters: She is just everything and anything that you would need in a best friend, in a wise counsel. I mean, heck, she has been a first lady of a church, so she can help us. Figure out her full, I mean, she has a foolproof system to help you make better decisions and to get unstuck. So, I mean, this is my go to.

Nicole Walters: Maisha, Chaney, thank you so much for being

Myesha Chaney: I’m so, I just heard that introduction and I’m like, Oh my goodness. Is she talking about me?

Nicole Walters: Yes, it is. Because listen, you’re the first lady of a church. And so, you know that you get everything. You get everything from we want a divorce. We’re having a baby. We’re thinking about moving. You want to start a business. People come to you.

Myesha Chaney: Yeah. And it’s been something that I’ve had to manage for a long time.

Nicole Walters: And see, and that I think is one of the things that so many of us lose sight of, is that when you’re in that role as the, you know, that counsel, there’s so much pressure also around how you make decisions and how you carry yourself. So it’s not just that you’re giving advice, you’re expected to manage your life a certain way too.

Myesha Chaney: And that there are consequences when there’s a misstep.

Nicole Walters: So let’s talk about the misstep. We’re just going to jump right in here. So we are both divorcees, right? Congratulate. And it’s so funny because you know, we say that and we clap and we laugh about it. But I think what we’re celebrating is the fact that we were able to make a decision to live a life that’s more in line with us and honestly, what God’s called over our

Myesha Chaney: Yes, absolutely. It is something to celebrate when you make it to the other

Nicole Walters: When you make it to the other side, but it’s also not that we’re celebrating a failed marriage or a marriage that actually just went a different direction. I don’t even want to call it failed because it just came to an end, a culmination, a finishing point. And I will say, though, as a first lady of a black church that’s on TV, ma’am, I can’t even get into what it must have been like for you to announce.

Nicole Walters: I mean, actually, I think that your ex actually announced He did. He did. He announced it on social media. And he

Nicole Walters: just lets you know, we’re not even calling the pastor part into question because what we don’t do here is talk badly about our exes. Cause it’s not even that

Myesha Chaney: we don’t even

Nicole Walters: It’s not even that energy, but as just a person to have it announced.

Nicole Walters: And so it’s just difficult.

Nicole Walters: It’s just And I, I didn’t have any idea about all of these things, right? I helped a lot of people over the years. I’ve walked with people. I Just saw the humanity in the process. I didn’t lean into divorce too heavily because I didn’t think that was something I would ever have to deal with.

Myesha Chaney: It was like, how can I be present for others? And it’s one of those things that you don’t know really what it’s like until you are faced with that choice until the circumstances presents

Nicole Walters: Yes, this is so true. And I, so I announced, you know, my divorce on social media as well, but I talked to my ex about it first.

Nicole Walters: You know, like I was like, hey, this is something that I think I’m going to reach the point where I’m going to have to share it. You know, and these are some of the different things I’m considering. Do you have any thoughts about it? You know, and he was like, yeah, no, it’s fine. It’s okay. You know, and, and we shared it online.

Nicole Walters: But, um, I will say that you’re right like knowing other people are going to have a perspective on it and especially in like a Congregation and I mean people don’t talk about a lot, but when you’re you know a pastor and a first lady like That’s also your job

Myesha Chaney: It is.

Nicole Walters: So like your income could be affected if people like disapprove of it like there’s just so much pressure that comes with the role And was that scary for you?

Myesha Chaney: It was, it was scary for

Nicole Walters: Mm

Myesha Chaney: because I didn’t know what was going to happen. I’m a recovery and control

Nicole Walters: Yes,

Myesha Chaney: A part of my background is didn’t grow up with very much. And I had finally gotten a stability that I had grown accustomed to. So no matter how my life looked on the outside or on the inside, it was my life.

Nicole Walters: and it was going to

Myesha Chaney: yeah, and any disruption was going to be painful for me.

Nicole Walters: when you had kids, we didn’t even had three kids and um, It was scary, but I knew enough to make the next right step.

Nicole Walters: it leads us to the next part. And part of why I wanted y’all to have that foundation is to hear that, you know, Myesha’s just like all of us, right? There’s no point in time in your life where you’re going to be like, Well, I’m going to wait until I have less going on to start making choices.

Nicole Walters: You know, no matter what you’re going to be called to make choices, which means we have to get really good at making choices,

Myesha Chaney: Mm hmm.

Nicole Walters: and that you’re literally one of the best people I know when it comes to deciding things like there is a quiet confidence about you that I think a lot of women on really aspire to whenever, it’s part of why they come to you because they’re like, not that you seem to have it all going on because we know, I mean obviously publicly, it’s not perfect, right?

Nicole Walters: But you’re able to almost pick up the pieces and still, still function and serve in a way that’s just really beautiful. So, um, that being said, how did you know? How did you know that it was time? And that’s a, I know that’s tough.

Myesha Chaney: through compounding losses. So we had the pandemic going on. We were in a multimillion dollar renovation. There was high stress. My sister has seizures back to back to back. She was in the ICU. My dad, who is the strongest man I know, had a stroke. We dropped him off at the emergency room, didn’t see him for another month after that.

Myesha Chaney: Um, there was death on my ex husband’s side of the family. His 37 year old, uh, sister in law died of brain cancer. His aunt died the same month. and it was just, One thing after the next thing, my daughter attempted suicide in that same season. I ran out. I was done. I had nothing else to give. I would I had been working one hundred and twenty percent of my capacity for years and years and years.

Myesha Chaney: And I finally got to my end. And in that season. It forced me to re evaluate my values. I had to sit down and say, Maisha, what kind of life do you want to live?

Myesha Chaney: And it was so overwhelmingly present that I felt like if I don’t make a shift, I’m going to die. I did not know. Divorce was even on the table. I hadn’t, I hadn’t even considered it.

Myesha Chaney: I thought, okay, you can figure this out. you can take a break. You can go on a sabbatical. I had never taken a break. I’ve been working since I was 14 years old. I had to have everything figured out. I had to take care of everybody else, all of these scripts, all of these narratives. And I started sharing.

Myesha Chaney: And by this time I had been in therapy probably for three years straight, getting courage to confront some real things in my life. I had started to build up the drivers to how do I make adjustments, what’s going on inside of

Nicole Walters: This is all I know,

Myesha Chaney: is all I know.

Myesha Chaney: And I’m figuring that out. So when I hit the wall, And there was no other place to go. It was like you either die or you make a

Nicole Walters: y’all. So I just want to call out that. I mean, you’ve taken us on a little bit of a journey there, right, and getting to that point of I have to die or make a change, you know, I relate to that, obviously, you know, I’ve shared so much of my story here about, you know, getting to the point where, like, my health is failing, my body is breaking down, it is dying, you know, so it’s, if I don’t make a change, this will end with me no longer being, right, so it was, I felt forced to do it just for survival, it was survival instincts kicked in, right, but So many of the women who come to you aren’t even all the way there yet.

Nicole Walters: There are signs that come before that and you actually called out one of them pretty early on that you said your values were starting to to become clear and you were noticing that they weren’t in alignment. Would you say that was part of therapy? Would you say that like it’s just all the compounding losses and how you’re responding to the losses that you were like?

Nicole Walters: Maybe I feel like my partner is and again, we’re not bashing in any way, shape or form because and I and I mean this about my partner as well, the way we responded to a lot of our compounding losses were just different. I wouldn’t say that they were wrong, but they were just different. And that when you have in tight quarters over and over and over again, Plus you get the reflective private time of therapy and prayer, you really start wondering, do I want a partner that responds more similarly to the way that I do?

Nicole Walters: Or do I need just a chance to do this myself and not have to worry about how my partner responds? Or do I need to grow and change and shift to respond more like my partner? You know what I mean? Like, so was, so where did the compounding losses fit in plus therapy and all that with really identifying your values?

Nicole Walters: Because it sounds like that’s the beginning of the process.

Myesha Chaney: confidence come from?

Nicole Walters: Okay.

Myesha Chaney: In order to survive, I just kind of functioned. I built a beautiful life from the outside,

Myesha Chaney: but the values from though that you’re talking about? The ones that you got in the beginning? Because you got married young. I think we should call I got married at 22. How old are

Myesha Chaney: met my ex husband at 18. We got married at 21.

Nicole Walters: so I mean, we both got married when we were babies, which when we look back on it now that we have kids that age, what were we doing?

Myesha Chaney: I have no idea. I have no

Nicole Walters: like, girl, I do not know.

Myesha Chaney: was sitting in somebody’s church, call myself leading

Nicole Walters: listen, you

Nicole Walters: know, have been sat down somewhere, but,

Nicole Walters: somewhere.

Myesha Chaney: just, I just mean a basic level. Like I deserve love and respect that I’m worthy. I do remember as an 18 year old feeling like the world was big and excited and passionate passionate about things.

Myesha Chaney: And, and I wanted to discover what, what this world had for me. And I think I did have the. internal infrastructure for my life. It did need development, but there was something there, The core of what it was

Myesha Chaney: of who I was was there. And so for about 15 years, I just was just numb

Nicole Walters: Autopilot. So it almost sounds like, and this is something that I think is really important. If, if you all don’t know, Maisha works with women. This is part of obviously not just her calling on this earth as, as manifested as being a first lady, but it’s the work she does privately now is she supports women in transition, women trying in discovery, you know, to figure out and get back to who they are.

Nicole Walters: It’s not the language of, you don’t know, it’s the language of reclaiming. And that’s what you’re telling me

Myesha Chaney: That’s what I’m saying. There was a core of a person because I thought it was easier for me to become what everybody else wanted me to

Nicole Walters: me to be.

Myesha Chaney: I started to chase that. So whatever the congregation needed, whatever my ex husband needed, then I had children right away. So whatever the kids needed, and it was less about me as a person and more about everybody else.

Myesha Chaney: I signed up for a graduate program and it was deeply deconstructive. It was a master’s in spiritual care, soul care and spiritual formation. And they required six months of therapy to graduate. I

Nicole Walters: Oh wow.

Myesha Chaney: I had to go on silent retreats. I had to do weekly groups. And you’re talking about a person who was spending 99 percent of my life taking care of

Myesha Chaney: everybody everyone else. When I tell you, listen, there’s a prayer that one of my friends, her name’s Glow Atonmo. I don’t know if you know her, but I love Glow.

Nicole Walters: And she was talking about how she prayed the other day. She was like, please, God, show me myself, expose me. That prayer, you know, we don’t like that one. It stresses me out, girl. And that’s what therapy is like. It’s like you go in there and you have this bubble, this room where it is not about anyone else.

Nicole Walters: And you’re just like, not you’re going to tell me about myself. I feel attacked here. Revealing.

Myesha Chaney: the whole six months and I never brought up my marriage. I was so trained. I never spoke of anything in my entire relationship to anyone alive

Nicole Walters: Wow.

Myesha Chaney: for a good we divorced at 18 years. That was for a good 13 years.

Nicole Walters: Okay, so let’s pause on this. We are often told in society that we are not to talk about our marriages elsewhere.

Myesha Chaney: longer say that.

Nicole Walters: Ooh, tell me more I don’t, I don’t agree with that anymore because it took a therapist to look me in the eye after I went five years to weekly talk therapy.

Nicole Walters: me in the eye. Wow.

Myesha Chaney: Okay. My last day was when my divorce was

Nicole Walters: you.

Myesha Chaney: session. This man, Walk me through everything he told me things were wrong that I did not even know were wrong So, how do you that’s when people tell me like you have to fight and I get it I used to preach it all the time that you tell your parents about it And then you reconcile with your partner and then now your parents are still upset about it It doesn’t I I paid somebody to hear me And I didn’t even know I needed it.

Nicole Walters: it. Ooh, so so this is so and I’m gonna share something that I’ve never shared before, but I had the same moment in therapy, where I went to therapy because in in my situation I felt like Something must be wrong with me.

Myesha Chaney: Ah.

Nicole Walters: is um, clearly unhappy. You know, and I hold the weight of trying to make that better.

Myesha Chaney: Uh And I also am not happy by extension because I’m, I don’t feel like I’m getting the partnership I desire. So let me go to therapy because, you know, I was the only person who went, I was, I went to therapy for eight years and I was the only person getting regular sessions every single week.

Nicole Walters: And so I was like, okay, I will, and I still go to therapy actually, like I’ve been going to therapy nonstop for over a decade. But. I went and there were a couple of really big pivotal moments that occurred in my marriage that I have yet to discuss publicly, you know, and I never shared them until Maybe a year after I’d filed?

Nicole Walters: No, maybe a year before I filed. And my therapist said, Do you understand that what you just told me now Colors everything else you’ve ever told me in the entire How on earth When you’ve been sitting here saying, I don’t know why I’m not able to do this for him. She’s like this has been the answer of why because this thing that occurred It was such a fundamental rift in the relationship that there’s no way You would have been able to do those other things and it affects the way It’s kind of like going to a doctor’s office and being like, I don’t know what’s going on with me doctor I have a lot of fatigue but not telling them that you eat like a terrible diet You know what I mean?

Nicole Walters: Like you need to know the means right? And so you’re telling me that It wasn’t until you had this sort of awakening first that gave you more clarity on your values. And then once you had that, you started, I guess, it sounds like, you know, especially with all these losses, everything you were learning about yourself, you’re responding to these losses. And then, and, and that was, I guess, leading

Myesha Chaney: Because as long as I was in the driver’s seat and in control, and as long as I could figure out a way and work it out, I didn’t have to go through the hardship of dealing with me. This was the first time that That everything was broken and I couldn’t fix it. And I looked to the right or to the left and the support that I needed wasn’t there.

Myesha Chaney: The understanding that I needed wasn’t there. And it was with a heavy heart. And I still thought, well, we can just figure it out. Because as long as we’re busy, as long as I was running, and as long as I was preoccupied, I couldn’t deal with what was really going

Nicole Walters: any

Myesha Chaney: There was no way.

Nicole Walters: on. Impossible way.

Myesha Chaney: of my life wouldn’t allow for me to think thoughtfully about the kind of marriage I wanted.

Myesha Chaney: This is the marriage you

Nicole Walters: it out. And

Myesha Chaney: And you’re going to figure it out and you’re going to keep on going. Well, this wall said. You have to reprioritize something or you’re going to die.

Nicole Walters: to die.

Myesha Chaney: it got so strong and so present

Nicole Walters: Couldn’t ignore it.

Myesha Chaney: that I started cutting things out of my life. We can no longer work together with my partner.

Myesha Chaney: We work together. It was my pastor. It was the father of my kids. It’s the head of my home. And the pie that was for my Isha got really, really small. It was like 10% of my life was for me, and I started to have a problem with that.

Nicole Walters: So that problem with it, did you not feel guilty? Because especially speaking of Christianity, and this is something that, you know, I’ll probably go into in a solo episode a little more.

Nicole Walters: this isn’t an indictment on the faith as a whole, right? Because I always say my relationship with Christ, Christianity, is super important. so fantastic, right? I just love Jesus top to bottom. However, people get on my nerves and their interpretation and application of who Jesus is, is what irritates me, right?

Nicole Walters: So knowing this as somebody in the church, the idea that divorce even comes on the table, you know, when you’re starting to know something is changing or something has to change, whatever it is, how do you reconcile that? Like real, like real talk, it’s a, it’s a difficult thing, especially in a pastoral role, you know, like to be able to say, and I, this isn’t an indictment or judgment, this is a question I had to face as well, because before making the, we’re answering the big question people have, how do I know it’s time?

Nicole Walters: One of the things, no matter, you’ve done all this identification, you still have to answer yourself with your faith too. Is this something that’s okay? Because society has told me it’s not, or in some areas, some versions of Christianity, you know, what does that look like to choose you?

Myesha Chaney: it went against everything that I had known. We teach a very sacrificial life and I started saying, but I’m not the living sacrifice. Not for this marriage, not for this faith. I got to the point so low that I thought I would rather go to

Nicole Walters: listen,

Myesha Chaney: I’m going to have hell on earth.

Myesha Chaney: I’m going to have hell on the other side. Either way, we are not doing this. inside of me, it was like the depths of my person was waking up and it was like, you wake Mm-Hmm. I would look at the congregation. I would look at everything we built. And I had I had such a broken heart over it all.

Myesha Chaney: Because I realized that if this has to cost me my faith,

Nicole Walters: faith,

Myesha Chaney: and this was a faith, this is two theology master’s degrees. This is 20 years of my life.

Nicole Walters: A congregation to your community and your family, everything.

Myesha Chaney: And this church was the only church I’d ever been a part of. I was born in this church. My mom, my grandparents, I had never even joined another church. So we’re talking

Nicole Walters: History. Everything.

Myesha Chaney: Everything to me, all the sacrificing the future, the promises of what we would become and what we would build and how we would help.

Myesha Chaney: And all of that was on the line. And to me, I don’t, I’m like, why would God do this to me? Where the choice for me had to be with everything I’ve ever That’s As the cost,

Nicole Walters: That’s right.

Myesha Chaney: I’m like, you could have given me a lower level, kind of

Nicole Walters: don’t we say this all the time? I’m like, come on, Lord. Alright, it feels like a lot. But what’s funny is, it feels like a lot, but it really, that price is never that

Myesha Chaney: Uh huh. It’s never,

Nicole Walters: new life will cost you your old one. And that is okay. And it’s interesting, because what you just said, Dr. Anita Phillips says that any trauma is, her definition of trauma, is anything that makes you question who Humanity, the world, or God, and so if you are experiencing some level of trauma, which again, you know, not saying that that’s happening, you can be in a relationship with someone who’s a good, great person, but if there is an alignment, it will cause a trauma and a friction in your life, one way or another, and so, you know, knowing that there’s trauma happening, it can be a good thing.

Nicole Walters: And you’re saying, I’m willing to give it all up. I think that’s something a lot of people don’t realize as part of, you know, to help you, you answer the question, if you’re listening, you know, if you’re saying to yourself, you’re willing to give it all up in order to have peace, that is one of your signs right out of the gate.

Nicole Walters: That it is time to

Myesha Chaney: So I wish I can say that I I mean, I, this is something I prayed about for many, many

Nicole Walters: Mm hmm.

Myesha Chaney: was one of those prayers of God, just help me, God be

Nicole Walters: There’s another way. There’s a different, anything.

Myesha Chaney: I’ve been praying those prayers. Okay.

Nicole Walters: yes, girl. Mm hmm.

Myesha Chaney: every prayer that I had prayed in my marriage and got

Nicole Walters: The easy route. I mean, listen, there’s even biblical precedent for that. You know, God prayed for everything. Jesus prayed for everything. He said, Lord, I do not want to die on this cross. I don’t want to. He specifically said, I don’t, is there another way?

Nicole Walters: Cause he’s human. He was like, I know what you are saying is to come to pass and I am not interested. And, and you can do something else. And he said, no. He said, this is what it is. And this is what you were sent to do. And he was like, okay. You know, and he went and did it. And mind you, he did that also knowing he would come back.

Nicole Walters: And he was still afraid to go through the pain of it. So all of us who’ve gone through divorce, just so you know, we’re all still standing here and we’re all on this other side of it, you know, and you, so you know, you’ll get through if you’re feeling this question about yourself too. And I don’t say this as an advocate of divorce, you know, I am an advocate of love and marriage.

Nicole Walters: To this day, but if you’re saying to yourself, is this something I need to do? Just don’t let the fact that you don’t think you’ll get through it be the reason you don’t.

Myesha Chaney: And I think, for me, I didn’t know 100 percent if divorce was the way. I knew 100%,

Nicole Walters: it to be everything else, but that though,

Myesha Chaney: I knew 100 percent that I had to take the next right step. And I just kept getting clearer on the next right step.

Nicole Walters: hmm

Myesha Chaney: I need to file. The next right step

Myesha Chaney: we long did it take you to file? It didn’t happen right away,

Myesha Chaney: it did not

Nicole Walters: Same here. I think a lot of women are also under that perception too, which is, so for me, it took me almost a year to file. And I think that surprised people too, because they think that when you leave or when you finally like say, okay, this is no more, that you like go the next day and file your

Nicole Walters: papers. And that’s not what it is. You’re

Myesha Chaney: I’m thinking about my children. I’m like thinking of other

Nicole Walters: Is there other ways? Like for me it was like well maybe we can decide without having

Nicole Walters: to go through the court stuff or maybe we can this but it’s like y’all like that’s not how that works.

Myesha Chaney: Yeah, because the pandemic happened in 2020 and my divorce didn’t get filed until 2022. So I was experiencing a lot of emotional change, a lot of questioning, a lot of wrestling, but I still in January of the year we filed said, let’s go to couples therapy

Myesha Chaney: because I thought.

Nicole Walters: You just want to be sure though, you know, I think we did couples where I want to know we did everything

Myesha Chaney: did everything

Myesha Chaney: possible.

Myesha Chaney: And that was not helpful for me. It was already well, it was just too late.

Nicole Walters: If anything couples therapy solidified it for

Myesha Chaney: you did

Myesha Chaney: for me, when you when the individual therapy meets the couples therapy you start saying Oh, wow, I’m sitting across the person sitting here is not the person pre therapy

Myesha Chaney: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Nicole Walters: that I’m here I get to really look at what I’m facing and I’m like, oh wow This is I am making the right call You Yeah, I think it was just like you said, knowing I’ve done all that I can do. And after that, it was, it happened pretty quickly. Everything just kind of fell into place and had to do the tough work. So when it comes to making decisions, I think I got laser focused on the next right decision. And I tried not to get overwhelmed.

Myesha Chaney: Mind you, I’m in a dark, dark place.

Nicole Walters: girl, the depression, I lost 22 pounds from not eating and people are looking at me on the internet like, oh, she’s looking good. Oh, she’s getting lipo. She’s on Ozempic. I was depressed. My therapist was literally telling me, you need to eat. And I was like, I

Myesha Chaney: it nearly killed It kills because I didn’t have the infrastructure.

Nicole Walters: of the things that you were experiencing?

Nicole Walters: Because this might be helpful too for anyone listening. People don’t recognize that your body breaks down from stress. And you’ve talked about this openly before. Some of the signs of stress and depression that you were experiencing in anticipation of this. And we’re only using divorce as a big decision, but y’all, this could be quitting your job.

Nicole Walters: Your job can still do these sorts of things to you. So what were some of the body

Myesha Chaney: I had a lot of brain fog. I was having hair loss. I was

Nicole Walters: Those edges. Gone, girl. What edges?

Myesha Chaney: the cortisol in my body could never really maintain weight. It was just, I would lose a lot of weight. Then I would gain weight back. I just, it was just a feeling of dis ease. There was something that was not working well. And my body was responding.

Myesha Chaney: Anxiety, feeling like the other shoe was going to

Nicole Walters: That’s

Myesha Chaney: Always kind of tensed up,

Nicole Walters: That’s right. Trust issues. You know, like,

Myesha Chaney: not feeling

Nicole Walters: How’s that work? Not feeling

Myesha Chaney: I was isolated. So when that, when that paperwork, when that announcement went out on social media, which I knew we were divorcing,

Myesha Chaney: I just didn’t know on that day at that

Nicole Walters: How we’re gonna handle entire world was going to figure, was going to learn about that people, friends I had that I had not

Nicole Walters: Then it’s like follow up phone calls, text messages, because also as a public figure, it’s a lot, you know what I

Myesha Chaney: I got a text message that said, I’m so sorry. I said, what are you talking about? And they said, it’s all over the internet. And I went on Instagram and I had a primal scream. I literally dropped to the floor and I experienced for the first time what it felt like for the world to completely open up underneath my feet.

Myesha Chaney: Okay. And it wasn’t just that the marriage was over. It was that my biggest fear had come upon me

Nicole Walters: That’s right.

Myesha Chaney: and everything that I had built in my old life was done. I didn’t speak to the friends that I had, the people I traveled the world with.

Myesha Chaney: So when it comes to making decisions in the midst of all of this breaking and caving in, I couldn’t even fathom a month from now.

Myesha Chaney: I just knew, wake up tomorrow.

Nicole Walters: when I tell you, I remember standing in my kitchen, coaching myself and being like, you need to eat something. You need to get out of bed today.

Nicole Walters: You need to go outside. When was the last time you went outside and breathed air, Nicole? I mean, there’s a healing point.

Myesha Chaney: I walked like 25, 000 steps a day.

Nicole Walters: That’s, listen, That’s the only way I the walking, right? So like, that’s the other part too, is there’s like, you know, in stages, there’s a, okay, gotta get out of bed. And then when you finally get out of bed, it’s, I just need to move.

Nicole Walters: I need to keep moving. And then before you know it, you look up and you’re like, where am I? I was walking from, if you’re from California, you’ll appreciate this, Marina del Rey to Santa Monica. I’m back walking. And like, and that’s not a crazy walk. Like people who are very fit can do it. But when I say like, I would blink and I look up and see the pier and be like, how’d I get here?

Nicole Walters: Do you know what I mean? Like it’s kind of a daze, you know, because you’re just trying to function like a human and animals do this. There’s like scientific studies that like animals will just start walking and roaming like and all of that. So. All that being said, and, and y’all, I hope you’re keeping track of this chain of events, and it really helps you is, you know, there was individual discovery that was happening in therapy, which was leading to a realignment of values that were always within.

Nicole Walters: So you always knew this, but you were rediscovering yourself. And then once you’d rediscovered yourself, it made it difficult for you to stay where you are once you knew something. about you. So kind of if you’re in your job, if you are like, man, you know, I hadn’t picked up a paintbrush in however long and now I’ve started doing watercolor and I can’t go to my desk every day. It’s because you rediscovered something

Myesha Chaney: It’s so true.

Nicole Walters: And so then after that it became, okay, I have to start, I guess, changing some things, creating some boundaries, some limitations. So for you, did that look like? starting to explore what your life, for me, it was, it was looking into what does my life look like now without this marriage?

Nicole Walters: You know, does it look like getting a new place? Does it look like, cause I also have my babies, you know, making sure they’re good. Like, what does that look like? Was that what you did next? Or did you just kind of say, Hey, you know, it’s over. So let’s just start executing. Like what came I had to do a lot of work in Boundaries. And surprisingly, a lot of that work came through friends and family, because my marriage was now over. So, how am I going to build this skill? In that relationship, co, co-parenting, dealing with divorce, all that. And I found that I got a lot of challenge or, or testing to see if it was working through regular people that I interface with. Let’s talk about that. Okay. We, I love a good boundary chat because boundaries completely. When I tell you, when you rediscover your personal values and a sense of identity, you start realizing how many people you let into your life that don’t care about your boundaries, that have their own

Myesha Chaney: it’s unbelievable.

Nicole Walters: It’s wild. Like, I mean, no no

Myesha Chaney: I didn’t have boundaries until like a year ago to

Nicole Walters: offended my own boundaries. I literally would set boundaries for myself and break them. Okay. I had no boundaries with me, you know? So, so I, this is the real, so what you’re telling me right now was before you even. Had to make calls with the big decision around the divorce you had to practice Some of this behavioral stuff with other people and I mean you are and this is part of why you’re such a good guide For this type of work because where you might go to therapy where you might be working with your you know Your pastor or whatever when you work with my a show what what is happens? You have someone side by side with you who knows how to put what you’re learning into practice And that’s the difference. So you’ve survived this. So what did it look like? Those conversations must have been hard because people did not know this, Myesha.

Myesha Chaney: because when I was a pastor’s wife, if someone came up to me and asked me to pray for them, and I said, no,

Nicole Walters: That’s not allowed. What are you talking about? That’s your one job.

Myesha Chaney: I would be talked about for, for weeks and weeks and weeks. If I be sat down. They’d be like, we need to talk, right. So it trained me to not have boundaries. It trained me to, to not look at what I

Nicole Walters: They’re always allowed

Myesha Chaney: I am not. I don’t feel like praying for you right now. I’m happy to do it. Amen. When it’s convenient for me. That would be, it’s asinine to

Nicole Walters: unheard of and also the not feel like part. I think that’s so often People don’t realize that just because I don’t feel like doesn’t mean I’m a bad person or don’t or that I don’t want to it’s That maybe you didn’t catch me in a good space. Don’t you want the best version of me to meet you in your moment? You do not want your pastor’s wife praying over you if she’s dealing with some stressor in her life,

Myesha Chaney: you know nothing about, that I can’t even speak about, don’t want advice from you on marriage. If your marriage isn’t going right, go solve that and, and get where you’re good to then speak to me. So, so you started practicing these boundaries with

Nicole Walters: others. How did that look for you?

Myesha Chaney: It was very, very scary. Um, I always wanted to be liked. I used to feel like I wasn’t attractive. I just wanted always people to value me from the outside, but I wasn’t valuing myself and I was expecting external fulfillment. In ways that I had not built that internally. So brown boundaries for me was even if you don’t like me, that was so hard for me to say, I can’t loan you money. I’m not going to be there at your wedding. I’m not, I’m not even going to answer your text message. And even now, if I, in the dating world, if someone doesn’t respond to me the way that I need to be responded to, I’m not even engaging with you ever again.

Nicole Walters: That’s right.

Myesha Chaney: And I would have never.

Nicole Walters: thought that you’d be there.

Myesha Chaney: Thought that I so it was scary at first it crushed me in a lot of ways because I had to finally say my issue You need to be enough for with me and until you have a better relationship with you stop looking outside

Nicole Walters: This is so good because I hope all of you are hearing right now that if you don’t have the ability to say no to things that you don’t want to do or if it fear fills you with like a anxiety or fear or concern or you’re a fierce people pleaser understand that whether it is your friendships your relationships, your, your business or your marriage. Being a people pleaser means that you’re likely in those situations allowing your boundaries to be crossed. It’s very difficult to have one and not the other. You can’t have a great workplace and also be a serial people pleaser with no

Myesha Chaney: you cannot And you know what was even more surprising about all this? When I was in ministry, when I worked with my ex husband, I could always blame him and I could blame the church and,

Nicole Walters: Toss it over there.

Myesha Chaney: being on my own and building my own business, it was like this, this is you.

Nicole Walters: Mm-Hmm.

Myesha Chaney: And if this client wants more than you want to give, you have to solve that.

Nicole Walters: to figure it out. Or if you wanna charge more, it’s up to you. You can’t toss it up, you can’t let someone else close it. You have to. And also you have to develop the skills that are a gap in between all of that. And also recognizing, I will say, at least for my own boundary work. Recognizing how complicit and responsible I was for a portion of the treatment that I received within my marriage. And that is so difficult because it’s so easy to want to blame. But if you, if you blame or if you, you know, shovel the responsibility on someone else, then you’re also not going to have change in your present, you know.

Nicole Walters: And that’s something that I’m learning from you and just kind of how you are really, You’ve grabbed the bull by the horns. You are moving forward with your life. You’re doing your own self discovery in order to make sure you’re living a life you want to have. So, so, but boundaries and people pleasing, like, whoo, hard. It’s hard.

Myesha Chaney: It’s hard, but it’s possible. And guess what? It has led me to discover parts of me to do. were there, but hidden all along. Like, I love being able to take charge in my life. I love being able to share and speak and tell people how I want to be treated. How I want to be handled and then making decisions that support that, that if you don’t handle me this way,

Nicole Walters: I’m not going to be here. I’m not going to be here.

Myesha Chaney: having good

Nicole Walters: Good luck. And it doesn’t mean anything about either one of us. When I tell you there’s nothing more freeing, and I don’t know if it’s like a divorce woman thing, but when you meet other women who are able to say, Good luck.

Nicole Walters: I may have gone through, sometimes when I find out like the truth about people’s exes, I’m like, wow, you talk about him so much nicer than he deserves. You know what I mean? Like you have no idea, like some of this and they’re just like, yeah, honestly, I’ve done my own work. So I’m aware of how I was complicit and I’m, and I knew what I was looking at and I knew what I was doing. And you just really learned that like, wow, these women are really on a different level. You know what I mean?

Myesha Chaney: I say it all the time. I wanted love and this was the way that I went about

Nicole Walters: That’s right.

Myesha Chaney: And it, and it, it was real to me and I thank God for every experience because I wouldn’t be sitting here right

Nicole Walters: That’s

Myesha Chaney: I’m very thankful and I practiced that throughout my divorce. I would say three things I’m grateful for and use it as a learning opportunity

Nicole Walters: That’s that I will not die and leave this life living a fraction of who I was meant to be.

Myesha Chaney: And if the cost of me living the life of, of who I was meant to be is doing a lot of hard stuff, I’m willing to do the hard stuff. It’s necessary. And it’s been great.

Nicole Walters: It has been great. You’re thriving. I love it. Um, if you guys don’t know, preachers of LA is actually, uh, coming back to the air for reunion special, and you’ll see a little, a little clip it of Miss Maisha on there. So definitely, you know, support, but also know that, you know, Maisha, I mean, we’ve touched the tip of the iceberg here, but I think a lot of people who may have been. sitting in their decision making now and are feeling stuck, are able to say to themselves, okay, cool. So the first thing I need to do is figure out what the heck is my, are my values, you know?

Nicole Walters: So if I don’t know what those are, I can go to therapy. I can, you know, they could work with you to kind of get some more clarity around it. But after they figure out their values, then they need to figure out what the boundaries are that they need to put in their life. And then really they’re ready to move. Now I know that you have a system where you walk people through all of this and you do like retreats and events. Can you tell us a little bit more about what your retreats are like? l n One’s coming up in Bali. I’m trying to I’m

Myesha Chaney: I know we’re about to go to Bali, but it’s about getting us out of our context and working through some of these things, giving clarity, putting an action plan. I’m an executor. My strength is you have multiple businesses. I mean you’ve you’ve what how big is your warehouse that you had it was. It’s a venue. It’s about 30, 000 square

Nicole Walters: Mean that is ridiculous. Like I mean so you have set up and executed whole businesses run congregations Manage your family manage yourself rebuilt a life. So I mean you really are a go to resource for You setting up these sorts of things, but you can’t do it without the right mindset.

Nicole Walters: So you go to these retreats and that’s what you work

Myesha Chaney: Yeah. It’s about life change. Bali was where I went to have my awakening.

Nicole Walters: ma’am. I went to LA. What was I thinking? This place is a mess. What is out here? What am I even doing? I was like, that was my budget, Polly.

Myesha Chaney: See, but you had to bring your light out It’s true. So can we talk about how so many women I know that’s a thing is like, when you are trying to figure out the next step, you just got to get out of wherever you. Oh yes. That is, was just so in the thick of it. I was like, I can’t even see here. I need to go 3, 000 miles away. You went 24 hour flight away. I did. And Bali was where I, I was like, okay, here’s the

Nicole Walters: Mm

Myesha Chaney: Here’s what we’re gonna do. It

Nicole Walters: Because there’s nothing around you. Like, I went to Marina, which is right by the water. I was like, I,

Myesha Chaney: Mm-Hmm.

Nicole Walters: There’s nothing else. No noise. And people think you’re crazy because, did you take your kids with you?

Myesha Chaney: I didn’t,

Nicole Walters: hmm. Neither did I, girl. So people, and people really think that’s nuts because they’re like, It’s such a different way to choose yourself, you know, because people are like, how could you do that? Like how could you go and not take your kids with you and all this but it’s like I’m unhealthy and I’m not Well, as long as my kids are safe and secure for that time frame Let me go build something that I can bring my kids into and it sounds like that’s what you did You got yourself well,

Myesha Chaney: And I put myself in the center of my universe for the first time ever. I think things are in balance now.

Nicole Walters: Oh

Myesha Chaney: And I can be a better mom, and I can be a cool friend, and a great daughter, and a sister, and it seemed like everything in my life Became more aligned, the more aligned I became with myself.

Nicole Walters: I think that right there is a point. So that said, where can people find more alignment? Where can they go to learn more about you? And I know that there are some women right now who are saying to themselves, I’ve got a decision. And if I can just take one step in the direction I need to take with this decision, it would change everything for me. And Myesha, I just need you to stand next to me. Where can they go to find more about you?

Myesha Chaney: You can go to my Isha Chaney dot com. You can find videos, all the things on Instagram, YouTube, any kind of social platform.

Nicole Walters: love that. And y’all will have the details in the show notes below. And of course Maisha, you know, provides that one-to-one support. And, uh, she’s available to talk. I mean, as you know, first Lady style, she’s great, but when it comes to having an actionable system that you can apply to move. From where you are to where you want to be and be unstuck and you know, it may not be divorced Maybe as a first lady, you are keeping people in their marriages, you know both ways

Myesha Chaney: Of

Nicole Walters: I love it because once you’ve been divorced you meet people who are like I’m struggling with this in my marriage and you’re like Oh, that’s not even a divorceable, honey. You just need to go to therapy real quick, you know, like get back in there I almost feel like I can keep people in their marriages now cuz I’m like no I know what the whole process is like you don’t want this

Myesha Chaney: Yeah, you’re like, you’re like, here, all you got to do,

Nicole Walters: Yeah, that’s right

Myesha Chaney: these few things and you’ll be good.

Nicole Walters: That’s right. You don’t even want the divorce process. You’re actually fine. Or this is normal. That’s the other part for the young ones. I’m always like, no, what you’re dealing with is actually normal. You’re just rushing to divorce, but this is just normal. Like yes, you’re living with someone now and obviously they’re not clean all the time. Like have the conversation

Myesha Chaney: I know. Figure it figure this one out.

Nicole Walters: So no matter where you are, whether it’s, you know, figuring out the job or the parenting or the next baby or whatever, my issue is a great resource for that. And I just am so blessed that you came here and shared. Your story so vulnerably with us and especially as a public figure, you know, it’s tough sometimes to expose ourselves and put ourselves out there, but it really is a blessing and, um, and I’m grateful that you show up the way you do. And you know, I’ll be texting and hitting you up too because I got decisions to make. All right. Thanks for being here.

Myesha Chaney: Thanks for having me.

 

In this episode, Myesha and I chat about:

• The 4 steps Myesha took to realign her life,
• Why discovering your values forces you to make decisions,
• How to learn about yourself in therapy, and
• Why making the next best decision is so tough and yet so simple

Resources and links mentioned in this episode:

• Connect with Myesha HERE and on Instagram!
• Grab my New York Times Bestselling memoir, Nothing is Missing, HERE!
• Book a 20 min call to see if working together is the right next step for you!
• The Misterfella and I did an extra special chat on where we are with growing our family. Don’t miss it – listen here or watch here
• I love reading your reviews of the show! You can share your thoughts on Apple here!

More about The Nicole Walters Podcast:

If you’re looking for the strategies and encouragement to pursue a life of purpose, this is the podcast for you! Week after week Nicole Walters will have you laughing hysterically while frantically taking notes as she shares her own personal stories and answers your DMs about life, business, and everything in between.

As a self-made multimillionaire and founder of the digital education firm, Inherit Learning Company, Nicole Walters is the “tell-it-like-it-is” best friend that you can’t wait to hang out with next.

When Nicole shows up, she shows OUT, so tune in each week for a laugh, a best friend chat, plus the strategies and encouragement you need to confidently live a life of purpose.

Follow Nicole on IG @NicoleWalters and visit inheritlearningcompany.com today and click the button to join our betterment community. Your membership gives you access to a world of people and tools focused on helping you build the life you want.

SEASON 4, EPISODE 18

SHOW NOTES

We’re chatting about a hot button topic today but I believe you’ll walk away from this couch chat appreciating how reasonable and logical it was. The best news about this issue is that you CAN help.

Kitty Brundtner, founder of the organization March Fourth, is here to share why she founded this organization and what singular mission they have.

Kitty is team extra just like us and thank the Lord she is because she is doing the things we don’t necessarily want to. With that said, participation is required to make positive change and that’s where we come in, friend.

Let’s dive into this chat with open minds and a lot of grace. Thanks for being here, friend!

Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or watch on Youtube

Season 4, Episode 18

Nicole Walters: Hey friends, I’m so excited for another couch chat. I know that we’ve been talking about bigger things this season and everything from, you know, what it’s like navigating life post divorce, finances, politics. I mean, we have really been diving in on the things that matter to us. And if you know, anything about me. I’m all about making sure that we are grace filled, that we are as balanced as we can be while maintaining our values and our ethics and morals.

Nicole Walters: But I also want to make sure that you have every single thing you need to make the choice that makes sense for you, your family, and yourself. and your neighbor. And what that means is I don’t just lean on my own understanding. I also bring in my good friends who I think are experts in their respective space, but also are doing big things and have the receipts to show for it.

Nicole Walters: And for that reason, I’m really excited because I am here today with my dear friend Kitty. And if you don’t know about Kitty Branner, you are about to be. Beyond Florida, you know, I don’t bring people on if I don’t think it’s worth the time and we’re gonna actually chat about something That’s a pretty hot button issue and I tell you people get fired up about this But by the end of this conversation, I think you’re gonna be like I did not know that that is such a reasonable Way to look at this issue and I’m not gonna get all roped up in the internet back and forth You I’m going to make sure that I am empowered to think for myself and to do what I think makes the most sense because we’re sensible folk.

Nicole Walters: So, Kitty Brandert’s here, and she is the founder and CEO of March. And, uh, this is an incredible organization that is doing powerful things. And I’m going to have Kitty tell you a little bit more about that. Kitty, thank you so much for being here.

Kitty Brundtner: Thank you for having me. This is the best day. I’m so excited.

Nicole Walters: am so excited that you’re here. People don’t know we have such, um, when we met, I was like, Oh, she is my people’s like, Just the same energy mostly because we are we are the people that see an issue and it’s not just like oh I saw the paper and picked it up. We’re like I saw the paper. I picked it up I build a built a robot that now picks up paper and I bought the restaurant and I revamped it and then I also Recycled said paper like we are team the most you are that person you are team Extra the most you saw an issue and you fix an issue.

Nicole Walters: So let’s get right into that. What is March 4th? What’s it about? What’s the issue?

Kitty Brundtner: Yes, so March 4th is an organization that I founded accidentally.

Nicole Walters: Mm

Kitty Brundtner: It is a nonpartisan organization and the only

Nicole Walters: does nonpartisan mean? Just so people can understand

Kitty Brundtner: nonpartisan means we are not aligned with either party. In fact, we’re aligned with no party. It’s regardless of the political parties, we are focused on the issue. And that issue is singular. And that is to reinstate the federal ban on assault weapons. And I have to use the word reinstate. And I didn’t know this when I founded March 4th almost two years ago, America had an assault weapons ban for 10 years.

Nicole Walters: Okay. So first things first, because I do think that the word ban can feel so triggery, especially for anyone here, because I’ve got, I mean, we run the gamut here, right? Like I’ve got my old school Southern sisters and I’ve got, you know, my two way right, you know, like I grew up in a hunting family, you know, and I also have, you know, people in my community that are like, listen, like I have never touched a weapon and you know, what are you talking about here?

Nicole Walters: Like, so just help me understand. Cause I think the word ban can sound kind of crazy pants and ban makes me think, you know, just kind of speaking for everyone, you mean no guns in existence in anywhere. And so tell me what that, so that’s not it.

Kitty Brundtner: Goodness, no. No. And I think that’s the biggest focus, like, the reason that we have found this niche is I think for so long the conversation has been all the guns are no guns.

Nicole Walters: Which is what, I mean that’s, people say gun control, it must mean that, or gun ban, it must mean that. You know, so, all guns, no guns.

Kitty Brundtner: Right. And there’s just, you can’t have that polarizing of a stance in America to get anything done regardless of what it is.

Nicole Walters: I can’t even have that stance in my house to figure out dinner. Like pizza or salads.

Kitty Brundtner: the type of pizza.

Nicole Walters: People will be like, starve. I choose option three,

Kitty Brundtner: We cannot agree. So I think what’s really interesting is to look at this as, yes, we had an assault weapons ban.

Kitty Brundtner: What that meant was assault weapons, which are military grade weapons, weapons that were designed to be used in war and kill the most amount of people in the shortest amount of time as effectively as possible.

Nicole Walters: like the Arnold Schwarzenegger, like cool, fast, super fast shooting, those type of things. That’s an assault weapon, not just like a hunting rifle.

Kitty Brundtner: No. I mean, it’s think, I mean, it’s an AR 15, it’s an AK 47. These weapons were designed for one purpose and from 1994 to 2004, with both Democrats and Republicans supporting the bill, it was signed into law and we did not have civilian access to these weapons.

Nicole Walters: Wait, so I think this is actually really important to call out because most of us don’t even know this. And I think we don’t know this because, frankly, we benefited from it. And You know how you just didn’t even realize it was a thing until it wasn’t there. So I’m gonna be really honest I Feel like and I think a lot of you know, my friends on here will say the same thing Like things got really crazy recently with like school shootings, mass shootings, things like that.

Nicole Walters: And when I say crazy, I do remember like Columbine growing up, right? Like I do remember that there were mass shooting events, but I feel like that the casualties are just so much worse. Like, you used to hear about, like, you know, things would happen, like, in a mall, and it’d be, like, five people or ten people, and which, look, every single life is relevant and matters, but I felt like it wasn’t as big, but all of a sudden, you know, how we, like, do we think back to fonder times?

Nicole Walters: Now I’m, like, what do you mean at a concert a hundred people are, you know, dead and injured? What do you mean an entire year? School classroom now is that because or is there some correlation between the salt like walk me through if that’s what we’re seeing and feeling and why? 94 to 2004 Felt like golden era.

Kitty Brundtner: So what I always say is the only benefit of this law expiring is that we have the data to know that it worked. we know, because data, that you were 70 percent less likely to die in a mass shooting when this law was in place. When the law expired in 2004, Mass shootings began to skyrocket to the point where we are now, where we’re breaking our own American records every year of most mass shootings in a year.

Kitty Brundtner: And that is.

Nicole Walters: you’re saying it’s getting worse every year. It’s not that it’s just a lot, it’s just every year it’s

Kitty Brundtner: yeah, that hockey stick, mm hmm. And there’s many, many reasons and a lot of different, you know, there’s a lot of complexities, but my whole goal, my career is in sales and it’s about translating things and making it easy to understand. Like, I went to a Big Ten university, I am not an Ivy Leaguer, I am not a scholar or policy wonk.

Kitty Brundtner: If I can understand this, Anyone can. And so when we look at this, when I founded this organization, it was after several mass shootings had occurred and the common denominator was that the shooter obtained the AR 15 legally.

Nicole Walters: Correct. Every time that one of these shootings happens, it’s always, well, they were mentally unwell. And you know, what we really need to do is have better screening, both for their mental wellness in addition to for them to have access to weapons.

Nicole Walters: Transcribed But what you’re telling me is that in these situations, the weapons were obtained legally, but it wouldn’t have been legal in 2000, between 94 and 2004.

Kitty Brundtner: And what I’m saying is, look, gun violence is a rampant

Nicole Walters: a huge issue. Just in general. We’re not talking about solving every problem entirely,

Kitty Brundtner: And, and we can’t. But, if you look at the deadliest mass shootings, the common denominator is the legally obtained assault weapon. And so our whole thing is, if we could mitigate that, shouldn’t we?

Nicole Walters: We, so we would cut down, I mean, just the numbers of the numbers. If we were to reinstate this, then my odds is 70 percent right away, less likely to die in a mass shooting. Me, my child, my neighbor, my, my husband.

Kitty Brundtner: Yeah, based on the data of when it existed, I think when you look at the, the,

Nicole Walters: But possibly even more now, cause you said it’s going up.

Kitty Brundtner: precisely, when you look at the effectiveness of these weapons, and we have brought doctors and physicians to the Hill kind of to explain this from a data perspective. These weapons were designed to be as effective as possible. And what that means is they create the Trigger warning, like cavities in the body, right?

Kitty Brundtner: So we have doctors come to the hill saying, hey, I, no matter how highly trained I am or where I’ve studied, I can’t recreate an organ. so while I can try to save a gunshot victim wound, right, where it’s an inbound, in and out, um, wound. Like, I can’t recreate an organ. I can’t recreate an organ in somebody’s body.

Kitty Brundtner: They will tell Congress, I cannot save a child who is hit by an AR 15 because the surface area, the way these bullets work, you cannot

Nicole Walters: too big. It’s blowing up the body.

Kitty Brundtner: correct. So we don’t have the, we don’t have the tools to react to these weapons. So when they are used, and the reason they are the mass shooter’s weapon of choice is because they’re effective.

Nicole Walters: Because, because I’m, because let’s just be completely transparent. If you have a mental health issue or you are a child or you are young, you may not be a very good shooter. So let me pick something that I know will help me accomplish my goal without being very good at whatever the skill is. So also when you tell me this piece about kind of what doctors are saying about, because I thank God that I don’t have intimate knowledge of this and I pray that I go my whole life without ever knowing.

Nicole Walters: anything about how this goes, but I also know that if things, if something isn’t done, whether or not people agree with what we’re having a conversation here, that it is just what it is, right? Like, so we pray that it’s better, but what you’re telling me about this sort of body damage piece is that right now, If there is a mass shooting and someone is using an assault weapon, it’s basically like before, if it was just like a hunting rifle or a handgun, I could go in there and throw the equivalent of a,

Kitty Brundtner: grape at

Nicole Walters: let’s say a grape at people.

Nicole Walters: And I could only throw three grapes. And so I would hit three people. But now in my odds of trying to hit someone with an assault rifle, it’s like me throwing watermelons and having the ability to hit 50 people.

Kitty Brundtner: and having a conveyor belt of watermelons, if you have a high capacity magazine, which basically allows you to reload and reload, you know, not have to reload basically.

Kitty Brundtner: So I think it’s easy to get technical with this topic, but at the, at the end of the day, what we’re trying to do is limit. Death is, is,

Nicole Walters: We’re not trying to honestly we’re not trying to fix guns, that’s what you’re saying. It’s just I just want less people to die if possible

Kitty Brundtner: And, and what’s really shocking to me is two thirds of America, including half of Republicans agree.

Kitty Brundtner: So we have the majority of America that supports the reinstatement of the assault weapon ban because it is logic. And when I started this, that was the biggest, like, question that I had

Nicole Walters: take me back to that when did you start this why did this happen two years ago? What what lightbulb made you feel like this is something worth your

Kitty Brundtner: so I always say when Sandy Hook happened, I was 25 and it was horrific. I think we all remember where we were that day. Um, but as a naive and selfish 25 year old, I just figured that the adults in the room would figure it

Nicole Walters: Oh, obviously

Kitty Brundtner: time it impacted

Nicole Walters: obviously

Kitty Brundtner: And then that didn’t happen. And so when the tragedy at Uvalde at Robb Elementary happened in May of 2022, I was completely wrecked because for the first time I could picture This impacting my life in a very real way because I was sending my oldest child to kindergarten that fall.

Kitty Brundtner: And I realized I was sending her to a mass shooting target in elementary school because I had to educate her in our country. And I remember my husband and I went overseas for a long planned trip the day after Yuvaldi Happens What’s What. All I could talk about. And we were fortunate enough to go to the French Open.

Kitty Brundtner: And so it’s this like collection, melting pot of people from across the world. So it was the only thing I could talk about. And as you remember, it was all over the news. And so people knew, right? And these are parents from France, Germany, England, Spain, New Zealand, Australia. And it was as if they all got together before talking to me and created their talking points because their feedback was the exact same.

Kitty Brundtner: They were like, I’m so sorry, we’ve seen how horrible and this will never be our reality. Like we don’t have access to guns, let alone assault weapons. So we just don’t get what you guys are doing over there. And I think that planted a seed of, we know this is an American problem, but when you get outside your bubble and realize that whole, like no one.

Kitty Brundtner: This isn’t normal, right? And then about a month later, it was the 4th of July. And, um, because of COVID, my kids had never been to a parade, and I have three young kids at the time. They were five and twin two year olds. Um, and we went to our hometown parade, and the town over from us had another parade.

Kitty Brundtner: Suddenly we’re getting calls that there’s an active shooter at the parade, the town over. And, um, you know, at first you’re like, no, no, like that must

Nicole Walters: is not even real, like, no, it’s not

Kitty Brundtner: something one off, no. And then it was very quickly, um, very sobering where we had to shelter in place from the man at large with an AR 15 who had just wreaked havoc on this day that we’re celebrating American independence, right?

Kitty Brundtner: And um, I’m getting text messages from friends that had run for their lives and one of them had shared a blanket with a now orphaned, uh, Uh, two year old whose parents brought him to a parade and didn’t come home, right? And it was the worst day. And I remember my five year old being like, in her red, white, and blue at home, Why can’t we go outside?

Kitty Brundtner: And my husband and I are, you know, in tears trying to figure out what’s going on with the news in the other room. And in my head, I’m like, The reason you can’t go outside on the Fourth of July is because I’m raising you in America. That’s why. And so for 24 hours it was, it was despair and like this is

Nicole Walters: Mm hmm, Mm

Kitty Brundtner: And still it was the worst 24 hours. And then I just got pissed and spicy. And if people know me, they know that that doesn’t take a lot for me to get opinionated about something. And I’m like, okay. So I start talking to the internet as one does, and I’m like, why does someone need an AR 15?

Kitty Brundtner: What am I missing? Is there something that like is requiring this to be a part of our lives?

Nicole Walters: Can I just, like, pause for a second and say I appreciate this energy of, of, of people Your first step was actually research. Like, why is this a thing?

Nicole Walters: And I think that that’s something a lot of us are missing because we’re so caught up in our own values and experiences where we just say, Well, I always grew up with guns. Well, I always, you know, this is what it was. Like, I mean, you know, I’m African. Like, hunting or, you know, kind of being involved in your environment.

Nicole Walters: Like, it’s just not, culturally, guns are not part of our culture in that sense.

Kitty Brundtner: way,

Nicole Walters: But it’s, that’s, it’s not unusual, you know, to be able to interact in that way. You know, so I think it’s interesting to hear that your first response with your spicy feisty nature, right, you know, was what am I missing? And so you went online to get information, much like some people are listening right now who are saying, look, like I didn’t know this stuff, you know, so what were you looking up?

Kitty Brundtner: I was, I was trying to educate myself on like how the government works, like if we wanted to do this or why hasn’t this been done or what am I

Nicole Walters: you know about the ban

Kitty Brundtner: no, I didn’t. What I like to say is like, I voted. That was my, I wasn’t hiding under a rock, but I stayed on the sidelines and shame on me on a lot of issues.

Nicole Walters: if it’s shame on you, then it’s shame on all of us because I think a lot of us are just we think that that’s our civic duty, you know, like we’re content to live our lives, you know, so I think that’s We all feel that

Kitty Brundtner: yeah, but I think like I sidelined myself because I’m like, well, I, I, I couldn’t possibly write. I don’t know.

Nicole Walters: big and I don’t know what to do and

Kitty Brundtner: I don’t have that

Nicole Walters: actually designed for us to be able to participate.

Kitty Brundtner: Yes. Which I didn’t realize, but I just, I’m like, I would look at things and be like, well, I’m not smart enough for that. I don’t understand that.

Nicole Walters: Or it’s too big.

Kitty Brundtner: got

Nicole Walters: Yeah. Yeah.

Kitty Brundtner: so as I started just being like, all right, I’m going to figure like, I just want to understand what am I missing? Because clearly there must be something.

Nicole Walters: Of course.

Kitty Brundtner: And I remember talking to friends that I had that worked on the Hill and they’re kind of like, well, here’s the deal.

Kitty Brundtner: This, this, this. I’m like, does Congress work? Well, what my first question was, can the president create an executive order to ban assault weapons?

Nicole Walters: I don’t know, can he?

Kitty Brundtner: he? No, we are not. We’re not a dictatorship. It won’t stand. Um, and I’m like, well, that, okay. When you say it like that, that makes

Nicole Walters: I love that you’re like, what is the fastest way to get what I want? If I can just text this guy and be like, hey, can you just issue a thing and then we can be done? Because this is, I have anxiety and I’ve got twins. This is so mom.

Kitty Brundtner: it’s mom, but it’s like privileged white woman, like, Okay, just like, let me know

Nicole Walters: I hear you. Who do I need to call? Find me a manager right

Kitty Brundtner: know it’s a white man. Find me the white man.

Nicole Walters: Right now.

Kitty Brundtner: And so I, I started asking that, but the answer is no.

Kitty Brundtner: Congress passes laws. I’m like, hey, good to know. I must’ve fallen asleep in that civics class or whatever. And so, as we start, as I started getting this information, I started getting even more like this echo chamber was louder and louder of people like, I know this is insane, etc. And so I asked. I think I want to go to DC and scream at the top of my lungs that I want a federal ban on assault weapons.

Kitty Brundtner: Does anyone want to come? I understand it’s going to be hard. I understand it’s a long shot. I have to do something. I have to start somewhere.

Nicole Walters: to put this somewhere right now. Yeah.

Kitty Brundtner: And I published my email address and I went to bed. And then I woke up to 300 emails. And, like, for the first time in 48 hours, I was crying tears of, like, hope instead of just complete despair and devastation.

Kitty Brundtner: And it was people from across the country, like, Hey, I work on the Hill. I can help you. Oh, I work in PR. I can help you. Oh, I do event planning. I can help you. So this organization was founded two days after a massacre and, right, and on the backs of many, many other tragedies, right? This has been building.

Kitty Brundtner: Um, and I remember reaching out to a lot of other orgs that already existed, like, Hey. I can

Nicole Walters: So that’s what I was going to ask you. So there are so many organizations that have some degree of task or goal related to, I’m just going to call it solving or addressing our issue around gun violence. You know, whether it is gun violence between gangs or gun violence in homes or gun usage, there’s lots of.

Nicole Walters: I’m gonna, and this is me sort of holding your feet to the fire for anyone who’s listening, you know, why are you different? What is different about March 4th that like you’re, cause I mean I’m a big proponent of put your money where it’s already working. You’re brand new, what is different about this that makes you think you’re gonna be more effective than the next

Kitty Brundtner: Totally. And like why do we need another one?

Nicole Walters: Literally, like literally though, like what is, so you saw all these people and this is great and you’re feisty, what’s different?

Kitty Brundtner: So, number one, being non partisan is actually pretty uncommon in this space.

Nicole Walters: So, me what makes you nonpartisan compared to everyone else, because people hear gun control, people hear ban. It doesn’t feel nonpartisan. There are people right now who are saying, no, if you’re trying to take away my right to have whatever gun I want, then that’s not nonpartisan.

Nicole Walters: That is liberal.

Kitty Brundtner: Fair.

Nicole Walters: Mm

Kitty Brundtner: Now, perhaps, that rhetoric, if you, if you, if all you’re doing is listening to the media then that’s maybe what you think. The reason we’re nonpartisan is because many of our supporters are from both parties or they’re like me, who’s a political atheist and I don’t believe I have a home,

Nicole Walters: hmm. And your funding isn’t from one or the other. Will you take everybody’s money who’s interested

Kitty Brundtner: Oh yeah,

Nicole Walters: Okay, good. I just wanted to make sure. Because there’s nothing that screams nonpartisan that we take everybody’s

Kitty Brundtner: Well, that was like a very big thing in the beginning is we made a very conscious effort to not fundraise on ActBlue. com where a lot of our peer organizations fundraise because I’m not here to get anyone elected. I’m not here to favor one party or the other. The fact of the matter is, It hasn’t, we haven’t reinstated this law in almost 30 years.

Kitty Brundtner: And that’s been, there’s been power shifted on both

Nicole Walters: That’s right. And

Kitty Brundtner: so I think it’s important to, I understand the, the partisan talking heads and all of that. At the end of the day

Nicole Walters: the babies. That’s what this sounds like. It sounds like you’re a mom who’s here to make sure our babies are okay.

Kitty Brundtner: Yes, and when I, and going to logic, when this law was passed, we had Democrats and some Republicans, including the support of President Ronald Reagan, written in a letter that’s published, you can find it, supporting this law.

Kitty Brundtner: And so for it to be said, for it to be said now that this is partisan is just incorrect.

Nicole Walters: just doesn’t support

Kitty Brundtner: It is

Nicole Walters: Like, like you’re actually, so you’re not even talking about modifications to the original law. You’re saying put this thing back in place that was written and supported by Ronald Reagan and also selected Democrats. Okay, so it’s just, this is, I mean, it’s basically like, Hey, we all agree that murder is illegal.

Nicole Walters: I’m pretty sure that’s nonpartisan. Okay. So this is like a similar concept.

Kitty Brundtner: I go into meetings on the Hill, and we mostly meet with Republicans because they are less likely to be out front on this issue because of the past two decades of this rhetoric.

Kitty Brundtner: And where we start is, I think we can all agree that we don’t want to see children being murdered in school. Right? We may not agree on the solution to fix that, but let’s start there. And that’s where I’m going to my 15 year sales career of, if I walked into my clients or prospective customers offices and was like, you’re using this vendor?

Kitty Brundtner: That’s stupid. You’re doing this wrong. They’re not going to work with

Nicole Walters: Of course not. Of course not.

Kitty Brundtner: so it’s like how, and I’m not meeting with them once. I’ve now met with over 400 offices and we meet with them multiple times. Like, you build relationships with people, you bring them closer to the middle. I think a really interesting fact when you think about public policy is that it follows public sentiment.

Kitty Brundtner: It doesn’t follow it as fast as we would like. But if you look

Nicole Walters: as long as we get their lives will be saved, correct? Mm-Hmm.

Kitty Brundtner: and I do a lot of reading on, because all we have is history of like, how does change happen? Because to me, from a logic and data perspective, we agree on this. Majority of America agrees that we don’t have tanks in our driveways and we don’t need assault weapons in our homes.

Nicole Walters: Mm-Hmm.

Kitty Brundtner: Couple quick things on that. This law will not, will not. take anyone’s guns away. So this is by definition, not a gun grab. Any legally owned assault weapon is grandfathered in. So it’s like, we’re talking about the future sale and manufacturer of assault weapons that we know to be the mass shooter’s weapon of choice.

Kitty Brundtner: And we’d like to mitigate that. So that’s one piece. The other piece.

Nicole Walters: not put new weapons into the hands of new babies who want to be new shooters. Makes sense to me.

Kitty Brundtner: start somewhere that we can, you know, agree on. Um, the other thing you mentioned is, is the bill. There’s now, for the first time in almost 30 years, there’s two different pieces of legislation that could accomplish the same thing. And when you look at the government, which I’ve had to learn a lot about in the past two years, There’s normally dozens if not hundreds of different bills to accomplish one

Nicole Walters: Mm hmm. Mm

Kitty Brundtner: time we’ve had one. Now since November, we have a second bill that accomplishes the same thing. So that is progress. And I have to hold on to all of these little pieces of progress,

Nicole Walters: yeah. I mean, but they’re all required. I mean, these are the steps that were taken for it to come into place the first time. So, I mean, we’re headed in the right direction. And what else makes March 4th different? Because I know that when I think of other organizations, what I always hear is they want a ban and they also want training and they also want like, so what are all the things that March 4th also wants?

Nicole Walters: Reinstatement.

Kitty Brundtner: We want to reinstate the assault weapons ban and then we’re gonna stop doing this.

Nicole Walters: So you want to get out of business?

Kitty Brundtner: I would love

Nicole Walters: You want to go home?

Kitty Brundtner: put me out of business and by out of business, I mean, we’re a nonprofit and I’m a volunteer. So

Nicole Walters: right. That’s

Kitty Brundtner: me back my

Nicole Walters: That’s right. You’re like, I’m, I’m trying to not go to the hill anymore. I don’t want to talk to these people anymore.

Kitty Brundtner: But like, I think what’s important to know when you think about what’s different is that there are, gun violence to your point, has so many pieces, pieces to this puzzle to solve.

Kitty Brundtner: We’ve got red flag laws. We’ve got safe storage. We’ve got waiting periods. We’ve got, like, we have so many things to solve. to focus on. And if everything is important, then nothing is. I learned that in business and it’s very true in advocacy. And so our goal is to take the low hanging fruit of gun legislation, which is a law that already existed and worked, and bring it back.

Kitty Brundtner: And if we can help propel the movement that way, then wonderful. We’re not here to tackle all the things, and that may be a negative in some people’s eyes, and it may be a pos It, it is what it is. I think we’re playing our piece of the puzzle in a non partisan way, singularly focused, and we work with a lot of these organizations behind the scenes and I’ve gotten to know a lot of these leaders and they’re doing wonderful work and at a bunch of different levels, right?

Kitty Brundtner: There’s a lot of local and state level, um, laws that people are focused on. We are federal. It has to, guns don’t respect state lines.

Nicole Walters: Yes,

Kitty Brundtner: be federal. And so being singularly focused also helps because I have ADHD and I’m like, just tell me one thing. I can drive

Nicole Walters: Let me just drill down on that detail and get it done. So you know what’s interesting is learning more about the organization and meeting you and sort of seeing my own like fiery soul sister and get it done this, you know, uh, It also can be overwhelming when we, as regular folk, are like, Okay, so I’m all in.

Nicole Walters: You know, because I know that’s what people hearing right now are like, Oh, you’re, you’re preaching to the choir, sister. Like, these are already things that I was thinking all this time. I know already, y’all, that you are having these conversations in your home, and you’re already saying to yourself, I feel the same way.

Nicole Walters: I just didn’t realize that there was a place that wasn’t trying to do all the things, you know, and I’m letting you know, there’s a place for this, but we ain’t like you. Okay. We’re not like I’m running up to Hill and taking care of twins. And I don’t know if we, I don’t know if we can do it. I don’t know if we could do it, Katie.

Nicole Walters: So What does it look like to help or to do something to kind of head us in this direction, even if we can’t? Because sometimes we get overwhelmed.

Kitty Brundtner: Yeah,

Nicole Walters: Like, I mean, you saw this, you, you know, flew to Europe, you, you held your own like fake me out UN at a, at a tennis tourney and then came back and founded a company.

Nicole Walters: Okay, Katie, you’re different. Okay. For the rest of us. What do we do from our kitchens to help you?

Kitty Brundtner: So our whole, like, slogan, I guess you could say, is participation is required. And what’s nice is, like, participation is whatever it looks like for you. So you know that saying the best kind of sunscreen is the kind you’ll wear?

Kitty Brundtner: The best kind of participation is the kind you’ll do. So that could be following us on Instagram and just getting a little peek into, like, what we’re doing and what the updates are and what your little task of the day can

Nicole Walters: Can we also tell the truth about that, y’all, from a business standpoint? The more followers they have, the more visibility they’re going to have on the hill. Because you better believe that if there’s anything that politicians pay attention to, it’s how many people can you reach the ear of.

Kitty Brundtner: It’s so weird.

Nicole Walters: so weird, but they may not understand what the internet is, right?

Nicole Walters: But they definitely understand if you’re saying I can send one tweet and reach a million people.

Kitty Brundtner: say, oh god, I wish it was a million. We’re working on it. But you know what? I, that’s, it’s such a true thing. I remember being on the Hill and, and this is how we communicate. It’s

Nicole Walters: Mm hmm.

Kitty Brundtner: would you like us to tell our 60, 000 followers? And they’re like, oh, okay. Um, well now that we’re talking, you know,

Nicole Walters: Mm hmm.

Kitty Brundtner: bit more pressure on.

Kitty Brundtner: So yeah, participation could be following us. It will give you access to like what, but we try to just break it down. We’re not gonna, you know, put the bill in front of you. Yes. If again, my, like, The barometer is me,

Nicole Walters: Mm hmm.

Kitty Brundtner: University of Iowa grad, go Hawkeyes, but like, we’re not known for our intelligence necessarily.

Kitty Brundtner: I can talk to people, but that’s about it. And then the other thing, you know, I think there’s different steps. You could call your legislators, and we can tell you, A, who are those people? Because that’s things that maybe people don’t know, and we have a link in our bio that’ll show you who are your senators and your representative, a literal link that will click and start a conversation.

Kitty Brundtner: dialing those numbers. You don’t even have to write down a phone number. Let’s make it easy. Um, what to say in that 30 second call with a 22 year old intern. It’s not scary. I promise. Um, or even coming to the Hill with us and lobbying with us. And we just try to make this advocacy journey accessible. but I think the ultimate goal is participation.

Kitty Brundtner: When you think about the The gun violence epidemic in America, it’s easy to say, well, I don’t get involved in guns. I don’t get involved in

Nicole Walters: just have a

Kitty Brundtner: here’s the problem with that statement. Guns are the number one killer of kids in America, and they have been for two years. And so,

Nicole Walters: to that?

Kitty Brundtner: car crashes.

Nicole Walters: Wow.

Kitty Brundtner: And, more than cancer, more than cars, like, the problem with, with saying you don’t get involved is if it were any other product that killed kids at this rate, we’d pull it from the shelves,

Nicole Walters: Oh my gosh, baby formula? I mean, we have recalls just in case. We’re like, hey, we found out that we had two cans of something that did something weird, and so we pulled every item from the shelf. You cannot have it anymore.

Kitty Brundtner: But the same weapon is used, being purchased legally, in all of these mass shootings. And we’re like, well, it’s not the time to talk about it. It is. It’s a product. The Second Amendment is sound, but it is not unlimited. And that’s the whole point here, is we believe in the right to bear arms.

Nicole Walters: basically talking about moderation. You know, which is, is, it’s really interesting because, I mean, the more that I have been involved in this conversation, it just is, y’all, it’s in such keeping with everything we talk about, about grace, about recognizing that we’re imperfect, about doing our best with what we’ve got.

Nicole Walters: This is not about showing up and being superheroes. This is not about perfect solutions. This is literally saying, look, I am not going to instantly become a gluten free, vegan, you know, wheatgrass shot drinking. two a day workout person if I’m eating donuts every day, but your girl can eat a salad because it is one step in one direction.

Nicole Walters: And I really appreciate that, you know, and you guys know I’m always trying to elevate voices and find people that allow us to create change with grace. And that really sounds like what you’re trying to do here is just a graceful solution that can make a difference.

Kitty Brundtner: Yeah.

Kitty Brundtner: And, and it’s, again, it’s a low hanging fruit. Like we already had it. This isn’t new. And I think that’s the best thing is

Nicole Walters: And actually what’s interesting is we already had it and anyone listening right now, you know, unless you are, you know, 12, you know, like you pretty much grew up and benefited from a time where this existed. That is real.

Kitty Brundtner: the thing. I think about my high school career and I never did a lockdown drill. We did tornado

Nicole Walters: drill. I didn’t even know what a lockdown drill

Kitty Brundtner: Right. You can’t prevent tornadoes. So we did tornado drills. But now we’ve got this generation that is coined generation lockdown and what they know to be normal is drills to hide. we have easy access to weapons. That’s just why. Yes, we have mental health issues. So does the rest of the country, or the world. The rest of the world hasn’t cured mental illness. there’s something, right, again, this is logic.

Nicole Walters: all humans. So

Kitty Brundtner: is the problem. It’s not all guns, I understand, but can we limit the access to the ones that create the most damage that you actually cannot use in hunting because you cannot eat the animal that you shoot with an AR 15 if it explodes?

Nicole Walters: That makes so much I mean, honestly, it’s like, man, we wish they didn’t even exist at all, so that we wouldn’t even have this conversation. Because you can still have a whole war and not have, you know, assault weapons. But, yeah, all the

Kitty Brundtner: yeah, I think when you think about like the, the benefits and stuff, I think that’s another really interesting point real quick is when we go to the Hill and we meet with these offices, oftentimes you’re meeting with their staffers that manage these

Nicole Walters: sure.

Kitty Brundtner: And what we’ve noticed is we’re meeting with a lot of these graduates of the Generation Lockdown.

Kitty Brundtner: And so, And so even in, in Republican offices, right, these are people saying, well, yeah, this makes

Nicole Walters: Mm hmm.

Kitty Brundtner: to explain it as a theoretical, like they’ve lived it.

Nicole Walters: I hate to say it, but y’all, Gen Z has babies now. I remember for me as a millennial, I was like, oh, Gen Z’s the young ones? No, no, no. Gen Alpha’s driving. Gen Z has babies. We are the olds. Okay? So now that we are officially the olds, we’ve got this, this Gen Z generation that literally does not, they were born in 2002, so they weren’t in school.

Nicole Walters: Mm hmm. when this ban was in effect. So they only know drills. They only know school shootings. And what’s amazing is we can create a world. And this is what you’re building. And I applaud you for every single day, Kitty, a world where our grandchildren. are able to go to school and not have lockdown drills.

Kitty Brundtner: Totally. Totally. And the thing is like, I wish it was just schools, you know,

Nicole Walters: anywhere. Yeah,

Kitty Brundtner: it’s just when you look at this, like concerts, I haven’t been to a movie

Nicole Walters: movie theater. You know, things like that. And I

Kitty Brundtner: recently a bowling alley.

Nicole Walters: bowling alley. I mean, and I, I posted recently on a trip, uh, that whenever I go and stay in my hotel room, I bring like some sort of extra secure lock for my door. Um, it’s just something I do. I travel a lot and, you know, it’s just being mindful, even if, because, I mean, heck, I’ve had people come in to the wrong room, you know, or it’s been, or housekeeping coming in early.

Nicole Walters: So I was showing kind of how I jury reg a hanger in order to kind of double lock my doors. And what was interesting, and I will never forget this, and I wanted to tell you and all of you that are listening, I had a teacher comment. And a teacher said, Hey, I just want you to know that, uh, we had someone come in who, uh, taught us that if you have one of those doors that has the sort of, uh, bendy hinge at the top, you can actually just use like a tie or a belt and just tie it around that, and that’ll actually keep the door jammed a lot better than a hanger.

Nicole Walters: And, you know, I’m a teacher and they taught us that for our classroom. And here I was, because I don’t have lockdown drills, having what was quote unquote a normal interactive conversation where she was offering an enhancement on how to barricade a door. And this is a teacher who teaches kindergarten, and she learned this about her classroom.

Nicole Walters: And my response to that, there are lots of, you know, people who respond to the comment, they’re like, oh, thank you, or that’s good, or that’s interesting. And my response to that, and where I want to leave all of us here today was, I’m really sorry. that you know that information. And I’m grateful that you shared it with me today, but I really hope that there’s a world where you will never need that.

Nicole Walters: And you will never have to reteach that because that is not what our teachers should be

Kitty Brundtner: No. They didn’t sign up for this.

Nicole Walters: And Kitty, I’m so grateful and thankful to you for being here today teaching us and getting to Capitol Hill and teaching them. And I cannot wait until you are so entirely unemployed from this profession and staying home every single day.

Nicole Walters: and I just want to say thanks for my grandchildren in advance. because they’re going to be safe and they’re going to grow and they’re going to thrive. So I appreciate and I see you in all you do and I’m here to support you in any way possible. And I know everyone here is going to follow and do all the things.

Kitty Brundtner: Thank you. You’re the best.

Nicole Walters: You’re the best. And y’all, um, you know, you can definitely follow, you can donate because, you know, time, treasure, all matters. but all the details will be below in the show notes because participation is required.

 

In this episode, Kitty and I chat about:

• The singular issue that March Fourth is advocating for,
• The history of the assault weapon ban,
• Why Kitty felt called to fight for this issue,
• How you can help this American crisis, and
• How March Fourth is calling for change with grace

Resources and links mentioned in this episode:

• Follow and support March Fourth HERE!
• Let’s connect over on Instagram and Facebook!
• Grab my New York Times Bestselling memoir, Nothing is Missing, HERE!
• Book a 20 min call to see if working together is the right next step for you!
• There is something becoming socially acceptable that we need to talk about, friend! Listen here or watch here
• I love reading your reviews of the show! You can share your thoughts on Apple here!

More about The Nicole Walters Podcast:

If you’re looking for the strategies and encouragement to pursue a life of purpose, this is the podcast for you! Week after week Nicole Walters will have you laughing hysterically while frantically taking notes as she shares her own personal stories and answers your DMs about life, business, and everything in between.

As a self-made multimillionaire and founder of the digital education firm, Inherit Learning Company, Nicole Walters is the “tell-it-like-it-is” best friend that you can’t wait to hang out with next.

When Nicole shows up, she shows OUT, so tune in each week for a laugh, a best friend chat, plus the strategies and encouragement you need to confidently live a life of purpose.

Follow Nicole on IG @NicoleWalters and visit inheritlearningcompany.com today and click the button to join our betterment community. Your membership gives you access to a world of people and tools focused on helping you build the life you want.