Nicole:

Hey, friends, I am beyond excited today. I swear I say that every episode but today’s really exciting because one, we’re not having this chat solo. I have brought in someone who I believe is going to give you transformative information. As you know, I have been through it, right? Between becoming a mom of three girls, building a business, going through a divorce, if there’s one thing that you’ve heard me say in my Fresh Start Manual in talking about pivots, it’s that there is so much value in understanding communication, building the right team and community around you and making sure that people in your world are supportive and collaborative.

If you have already pre ordered by book, Nothing is Missing, which is available now on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, and will be on shelves everywhere, October 10, can’t even believe it. You know that I’ve dealt with a million different transitions. And I’ve really been diving deep into what it looks like to have the right people around me, and how to leverage them and how to build an ongoing community. And I hear from so many of you that, you know, in parenting and motherhood and being a business owner, you can feel so alone. And that is why I tapped my good friend, Dr. Tamara Hamai, who is just revolutionary in her concepts and the fact that she’s put them into practice. Now you know how I feel about bringing people in front of you who are talking the talk, but have never walked the walk. And what’s brilliant is when it comes to you know, the boring stuff, the data and the analytics and numbers, she’s done it.

But when it comes to the get your hands dirty, put it into practice, can my concepts around building and alliances actually work? She’s done that too. So Tamara, thank you so much for being here.

Tamara:

Thanks for having me. I’m excited.

Nicole:
You’re excited? I’m excited. Because, you know, I’m always I don’t always have people here for chats, right. And the reason I don’t is because you know, one, I’m really particular about who I bring around my friends, you know, and two, you know, just in this season of my life, you know, leading up to what we’re talking about here, I care a lot about who was speaking into me.

And when we met and I heard about sort of where you started, where you worked, how you started formulating these ideas around the way people interact, and how that can help them reach their goals and what they need around them. I was like, oh, this is valuable. And I cannot believe people aren’t looking at it this way. So I know that sounds like a super teaser, y’all. First tell us a little bit about yourself, what do you do now? Who do you work with, and then we’ll go into how you got there.

Tamara:

Right now I run a company called Hamai Consulting, and we work with organizations to help them make a more sustainable impact in the world. Especially if they’re serving children and families. My background is in child development. And so that’s kind of my passion and direction. But really, we work with organizations that do everything from fiscal governance, to health, to lots of different things,

Nicole:

All the things and when I tell you this work that you do, I have a lot of friends who are who are listening that are educators that are moms, I mean, it is always at our heart whenever we know someone has committed themselves to the good work, right. But on top of that, everyone listening understands how difficult that work is. And right now I’m literally telling you, whether they are on their couch, in their car, in their kitchen, handling the babies, they are nodding their heads like listen, Nicole, okay, these people drive me crazy. And you’re I mean, you’ll be the first to say it you guys can’t see. But Dr. Tamaras over here literally nodding her head like girl. Like it’s so real, you know. And one of the biggest things they run into just transparently because you’ve been doing this a long time is the we’ve always done this this way. And we don’t want to change. And we already know you know how to do it just this obstinance with doing things that gets in the way of helping the kids.

So I want to ask you, did you run into that early on? Because you didn’t start off running your own business, you did this for a reason. So take us through that transition.

Tamara:

Yeah, I guess my my birth story also call in. I was working for LA county government. And I had landed my dream job. It was a community action researcher, which meant that I was working with community organizing groups throughout LA County to help them use research as a tool to create change in their communities.

Nicole:

So like not just making it up, but let’s take data that’s actually going to help the kids.

Tamara:

Yes, take the data to move the exit off the freeway like to make some others no asthma at the schools.

Nicole:
It’s just like really simple. Like the science is supporting the decision. It’s not just whatever the guy who got the job because his dad said, wants to spend the budget that way. Exactly. We love you. And we love that role.

Tamara:

So I was driving around the whole county, helping out these different community organizing groups. And one day, my boss called me into the office. And I mean, I did not work a few hours, I worked a lot in this role. So I was, you know, already pulling like 70-80 hour weeks, and my boss calls me in my office and says, I need you to drop everything you’re working on and work on this scorecard. It literally was just a report full of numbers about children.

Nicole:
So just let me stand in this minute moment with you for a minute because I think that anyone who’s ever worked in corporate or frankly, honestly, even if you’re a mom, you’re living your life, everything’s fine. The kids come home and say, I have a project and it’s due tomorrow. Now it’s one thing if it is relevant, makes sense, sensible work, we can understand or unexpected.

But in this situation, you have a full docket of work. And your boss came in and said, I don’t care. Do this instead.

Tamara:

Yeah. And to create something that was just going to be, it was actually going to be printed at that time. So a piece of paper that sat on someone’s bookshelf, not.

Nicole:
So there’s no purpose behind it, there was no, how did that make you feel? Because I think we’ve all been in that place. And it’d be really validating to hear how did that make you feel?

Tamara:

I mean, angry was the first thing.

Nicole:
Right, right. Right, right.

Tamara:

Because there was important work happening in the communities that I was going to not be able to work on. And when I said, Okay, how long are we talking here? This is a four to six week project, said, Okay, well, let me call, the organizers I’m working with, these are all relationships that I was using day to day for them do the work, and let them know that I’m just going to be having to step away for this period of time for this specific project. And make sure there isn’t anything they need from me before I step away. And my boss said, No, you cannot contact them.

Nicole:

So essentially, you are told to ghost your entire team, all your relationships, everyone you’d worked with before, just to pivot on a whim for something that let’s just be fair, likely wasn’t even as helpful as the work that you were doing.

Tamara:

Exactly. I mean, it’s hilarious to me in this moment that you get it instantly, right?

Nicole:
And I’m like, I don’t even do your job. And I know that ghosting is bad. Okay, like that is like the basic. So I think we all can relate to this right being pulled in a different direction for something that does not feel like it pertains to where we need to be, or is what we want to do. So what’s interesting is, and I’m hoping all of you are hearing that we all have these pivotal moments in our life, where in the moment, they might just make us angry, or in the moment, we’re kinda like, why is this happening? But they can be the turning point for everything. I had a moment like this before my divorce. I had a moment like this before I quit my job. I had a moment like this before I got my girls, you know, and my book talks about these moments. But I want to hear about what happened after this for you. Because you’re enraged. Tell me you flipped a table, through the scorecard in his face, and you marched out of there? Like I want to hear some drama. You’re classy sort, so… <laughs>

Tamara:

it wasn’t quite that dramatic. But I did break into tears. Oh, yeah. And this was only my second time ever crying at work.

Nicole:

People y’all don’t know. But Dr. Tamra is not like this. Like she’s a very, like put together like professional like, because you get a lot of mess thrown at you and your current work. I mean, literally, you’re a mess cleaner upper. That’s like what happens, they bring you in saying our organization is a disaster and we don’t work together. And we have a goal and you fix it. So the idea that someone pushed you to tears in the workplace which raise hand relate, relate, relate. It says a lot. So what did you do?

Tamara:

I quit. Actually think it was the next morning I came in before I knew the HR director came in early. And so I got in before everyone else and I quit to the HR director on the spot. And it really was a realization for me that, so while I had dedicated what my career up to that point, to what I thought were these organizations that were dedicated to children’s wellbeing dedicated to social welfare, that really, as people who choose social good, we’re lost. We don’t actually know or aren’t actually doing the things that are going to create the impact we seek in the world.

Nicole:
And there’s because we’re spending our time with bureaucracy, paperwork, power play, and it’s getting away from actually getting the work done. And so for you, this pivotal moment wasn’t just that I think this is a great call out that you’re making. It wasn’t just because they weren’t being nice and disrespectful to you, that was a byproduct of the bigger problem, which is if I continue to work here, I’m not doing the good that matters.

Tamara:

Exactly. That is not the way that we should be operating in the world. I knew it was against just my moral fiber. We got into this kind of work and I think a lot of people have an intent to have good in the world. And yeah, create a good impact in the world. But we’re not actually then living that out. Or we say that we are, I mean, a lot of these nonprofits, philanthropists, social entrepreneurs, right, are doing a lot of action. But are they truly yielding the change and impact are they actually showing up and serving in the way that they should be to have a sustainable impact over time?

Nicole:

Oh, this is so good. And it ties into where you are now. So you know, in this massive pivot moment, you created what needed to be a fresh start for yourself, because realistically, still got to earn income still have to you know, but you were kind of it was push or shove. It was I cannot continue to do this, because it is going against my core, girl, I relate, I talk about it in the book, I quit my job when I realized, I work in health care, and I’m not actually helping anyone be healthy, I gotta go, you know, so. So I get that. And it’s interesting, because I also think, you know, for the models listening for those of you are nurses, educators, social workers, people do not understand that when you’re in these types of massively service-driven roles. You didn’t choose them from the beginning to be rich. You chose them from the beginning to help and deserve.

So a lot of people are feeling that pull in that tug and I like that you’ve just distinguished for us that, you know, it’s not just because our boss was mean to us that day, if we’re feeling that tug, we may need to change. So let’s talk about change. Right, let’s talk about what that means. You took a lot of what you learned from this experience, when you started forming your consulting firm, which now has been around for gosh, how long have you been in this? 15 years?

Tamara:

Yeah, since three days after that quit.

Nicole:
Wow, wow.

Tamara:
So that was in 2008.

Nicole:

Oh, my gosh, okay, so. So you opened up, and you knew that you had to do something. But you also knew you didn’t really know what it looks so different now than it did then. So let’s talk about some of the ideas. Because where this is going, obviously, is I apply these ideas that my family, my business, or they really have helped me have the right people around me. So the core of your business that you do now and what you do when you’re supporting organizations, is really helping them understand each other, at least that’s how it seems to me, but you tell me more about it in your words.

Tamara:

Well, the first thing we do is help to bring together an alliance of people within their organization, or including people outside of the organization, to form a decision making body, people to actually think and generate together so that they can tackle together rather than alone, this concept or this challenge of becoming a more impactful organization.

Nicole:

So this is a big deal. Because you see this in business, I think that, you know, everyone does this, like with their girl squads, you know, it’s in business, it might be a mastermind in your group of girlfriends, it is that little sort of my girl squad that we travel with, I have those things, you know, in your family, it might be that I always go to this certain auntie and this grandmother. So you’re saying that you replicate what may occur, I guess naturally in the workplace.

Now, what are the components of what would be an alliance if we need to build one for ourselves? What are the core things?

Tamara:

So one of the things that actually we do, sort of inherently in our normal lives that we challenge to a certain degree, is normally we seek out people we’re comfortable with for support.

Nicole:

Oh, really? You mean we try to go to safe spaces when people are just gonna nod and say yes, you look pretty and oh, my gosh, you look thin today.

Tamara:
Exactly.

Nicole:

We don’t look for people who challenge us, by nature.

Tamara:
We also don’t know a lot of people who are different than us.

Nicole:

That’s actually a really great call out I, you know, transparently a lot of times when I look at people’s photos on social, I’m like, wow, you know, even though I’m your friend or I know that you may have like black friends or friends that are differently abled, or you even live in a neighborhood that is a very diverse neighborhood, I noticed that your wedding, everyone looked like you, you know, and a lot of times people don’t realize that. So that is such a good call out. Part of why we need to build this alliance, you know, in our lives in our businesses is because we need a diverse perspective.

Tamara:

In organizations usually decisions are made by people in positions of power, which means that only managers or only leaders are in these decision-making conversations. Where as we create alliances that have people in different roles with different power levels, different lived experiences, so we really encourage actually participants in services to be part of alliances, even though they don’t work for the organization, or we pay them for their time. Sure, but having a wide range of diverse experiences, diverse perspectives, that’s one of the critical pieces to actually building alliances.

Nicole:

It’s so good. So, I mean, because I’ve scary, I’m not gonna lie to you like the idea that I’m writing a book or I’m doing anything that is personal to me, I mean, it’s funny, because I’m about to say the thing that basically proves you right, which is, I don’t necessarily want to hear that it’s not great. I don’t want to necessarily hear like, I love the feedback for growth. But you know, it’s nerve racking to kind of put your thing in front of people and hear back. So you’re saying that by nature, people don’t.

Tamara:

They don’t. You don’t want just a naysayer, though, right? Like, the devil needs no advocate.

Nicole:
Yes, ain’t that the truth.

Tamara:

So when we are talking about challenge, it’s important that you’re bringing an alliance together, that is wanting to actually be supportive, even though they will challenge you. So it is safety and challenge at the same time. Otherwise, you’re going to be defensive, or you’re going to be shut down.

Nicole:

This is actually really valuable. Because, you know, obviously, I’m a mom of three. And we’ve been through a lot of transitions. And you know, my kids have a new step, you know, parent, and being in our home, one of the things that’s really big that we do is we make decisions kind of collectively. And that’s something that people always called out and said, this is unusual, that you know, because people ask me like, oh, well, what sports are is your is your daughter doing this year? And I’ll say, Oh, well, I don’t know. I have to ask her.

And they’re like, Oh, you’re not just picking like tennis, all the kids out here do tennis. Oh, you’re not just doing soccer. All the kids do soccer? And I’m like, what if she doesn’t want to? I have to ask her, you know, or, for instance, I have a book tour coming up, you know, and I’d love for her to come with me, you know, and as her mom, I definitely have the like, you mentioned power to say you are coming with me, but what if she doesn’t want to what if she wants to be home? What if she, you know, like, there, I realized there are a lot of decisions that we’re making but it’s easy for me because she’s part of those decisions.

You’re saying that and let me just kind of I’m trying to have a hypothetical, like in a family structure, applying your alliance model. I may ask, say like an older sibling of hers. What are your thoughts on her coming with me on this tour based on your experiences? Because there may be something you see that I don’t see.

Tamara:

Yeah, so you could ask. So the parent first sure my if there’s another caretaker or other adults in the household, talk to them. Other people who know that child, or are invested in the success of that child or the child themself, the older and even potentially younger sibling, depending on how young, if they can speak.

Nicole:
Yeah sure.

Tamara: 

Teachers, other experts. Also, there are times specifically when the decision requires some expertise.

Nicole:

Right, like picking a private school or therapy sessions or trying to rectify something that could be a problem like anxiety or okay.

Tamara:

So asking a therapist or asking a school counselor or something where you can get some sort of expert, objective information from an expert, but then filter it through values, experience, those lenses with these other people.

Nicole:
So using the same example, what are some of the potential outcomes? If I were to engage in this probably because it never would have occurred to me if I’m asking something of my middle daughter, you know, to say about my little one, how do you feel about the fact that Chrissy is staying in Atlanta, living at college? To me, it’s like, this is what’s happening, you know, like, and I say, this kind of, you know, putting myself out here as a mama, you know, this is what’s happening. My little ones 11, she’s fine. She’s with me, you know, but she may have thoughts, she might say, you know, what, I don’t like my sister being so far away.

And then I guess now I have perspective on what could have been a problem, I guess, like, tell me about what you’re finding when people start applying the Alliance method to you know, and they’re building alliances around their decision making.

Tamara:

So first we set what decision we’re trying to make.

Nicole:
Right? So should Chrissy stay in college? Are we okay with that? Should we move to California? Let’s say that’s the question.

Tamara:

Yes. So if that’s the decision you all want to make. Then you’ve formed this alliance. So you identify the people who are supportive of that goal, have important contributions to that goal, have different perspectives on that goal.

Nicole:
I hope y’all are writing this down. This is like, top tier stuff, like I really hope you read that and you’ll you’ll give us access your show notes, links, all that stuff, so that you can use and apply this in your business like team building is one of the hardest things to do. This is gold, so keep going. So anyone who’s supportive, we kind of get those people online and we’re clear about what the goal is.

Tamara:

Then we want to look at the context. So look at any data or research that might be relevant. So with going away to college research that might be relevant might be about I’m sure that there’s something about parents and separation from your children at that age.

Nicole:

Yeah, support systems, you know, picking her major, but even like logistics, right? Like, how much will it cost? Or, you know, does she have a boyfriend, or network there? What does that look like?

Tamara:

And there’s definitely research about the impact that transitions have on children. And those sorts of sets, you look at what research is there, what are the things that are important to pay attention to the things that we actually need to consider.

Nicole:

So that’s good, so it’s not going from our I mean, then it kind of takes it away from our gut, because as a mama, I’m like, tou go stay up underneath me, you don’t need to go anywhere. My data says you my baby stay in my house. But that may not be the best way to go I’m hearing. So if I look at research, it can give me sort of an outside perspective that might be better suited to sort of informing our decision. Ah, I’m using Alliance language. Okay, so great. Okay, so perfect. Then once we’ve collected that information, now what?

Tamara:

You review that information with the other people in your alliance.

Nicole:
So not by myself, so we’re all using the same info, okay.

Tamara:

And then I like to call it dreaming, where each person actually dreams of what the best possible future looks like.

Nicole:
So we dropped putting parameters around it, because it’s streaming. It’s like, what does this look like? So I’d be able to say like, for instance, my you know, Chrissy, because she’s 21, might say, Yeah, I think I want to say in Georgia, and the perfect scenarios we have in my own place, and maybe buying a house or whatever. And I can say, look, perfect situation would be that you lived in California, and that you were down the street and you bought a house here. And are we saying this, like you said safely, right, knowing that none of these things has to happen. But we’re just putting it out there.

Tamara:

Yeah. So we start with the unbridled dreams, okay. And I actually encourage people to tap into the creative modes. So whatever is their most comfortable creative expression. So whether it’s drawing or Lego or writing.

Nicole:
Oh, that’s brilliant.

Tamara:
So that it just comes out a little more deeply. Okay, and think about what does it taste like? What does it smell like? What do I say? What do I hear?

Nicole:
So having a little one, maybe draw a picture of what does the family look like, if Chris he’s at college or something like that? That’s really powerful. Because I think a lot of times when we hear about, I’m just being really transparent. When I hear about systems and processes that are fancy from doctors, I’m like, this is gonna be work yesterday, me and like, and I want to do these things. I feel like a good mom if I do these things, but I also want to make sure that they’re actually doable, particularly with the littles, you know, so this, that’s really, really helpful.

Tamara:

Yes, and then each person shares their expression, their dream with the rest of the people. So whether it’s a little mini presentation, you can have as a practice, or just a casual, like holding up whatever has been created and talking through what it’s showing. That’s how you get at, what does that blue squiggle mean?

Nicole:

So you want to foster conversation? Exactly. It’s not a sale, per se. It’s just more ah, like you said, a share. I love that. And then I guess I want to know, and I’m sure everyone’s thinking this, and this is hard to get to but how do you actually make the call? Like, it sounds like all of this sounds good and beautiful. But how do we make the decision?

Tamara:

So you start by looking at what’s in common across all your dreams, and choosing together what you’re actually going to implement. So how are you going to make it real?

Nicole:
That’s so good.

Tamara:

So if you haven’t a set of action steps that you have created to create just the pieces of your dreams that you have prioritized together. Then you have next steps and that guides whatever that decision is for that time. But no decision is final.

Nicole:

Yeah, no, that’s so good. It’s also really powerful to realize that, especially when you have a family that might have a tough time making decisions, you know, or that it’s a struggle. If we start from a place of looking for similarities, you’re not feeling like your ideas being put down, or you’re not feeling like you’re not being heard, because we’re starting from a place of pulling from, well, it sounds like I mean, heck, even for dinner, you know, it sounds like we all want to eat tonight, which is great. And it sounds like none of us wants Chinese food. Wonderful, you know, like, and it sounds like everyone’s open to, I mean, you said pasta, you said macaroni you said pizza, maybe Italian is the move. You know, like I really liked this idea that if we give everyone the floor to present their ideas, and we’re all invested in the outcome and we find similarities, then we like each other during this process. This is how you’re getting boardrooms to get along.

Tamara:

Yes. Sometimes you share things that you know are dreams, but you also know it’s not important to make real. So you can voice it and then let it go and be okay with whatever the priority ends up being.

Nicole:

And you still learn about each other. You know, I know I love to hear from my kids, like, if I’m hearing Oh yeah, well, one day I would love. So for instance, if Chrissy said, Yeah, I want to say in Atlanta, but she voices as a dream, but I would love to live in California, if I knew it was cost efficient or whatever, that’s something I can still hold and say, Wow, this could be a possibility to revisit later. So it is good to encourage them to dream big.

Tamara:

Yes. And the discussion oftentimes uncovers the why you actually think deeper. So when you talk about your dream, usually what comes up is not that you actually want her to live in California with you, right? It’s actually that type of emotional connection, you want to have.

Nicole:
100%.

Tamara:
Types of interactions and so then when you’re discussing as a group, you’re able to generate ways of generating that same type of connection in a different way.

Nicole:
That’s brilliant. So I will be totally transparent here and use myself as an example. When this was long before she had a boyfriend, because lord knows that made it easier for her to leave me. But before she had a boyfriend, when she said to me, I’m really nervous about, you know, being at school and being away from you. And I asked her why, you know, you’ll be fine, you know, you’ll live fine by yourself, you know, all of this. She said, Why don’t want us to not be as close as we are. And it never occurred to me, that that was even something, because we hang like, that is my girl, like, I love her so much. And we like each other too.

And so I was like, that’s not going to be an issue. You know, like, we can still have hangout time, we can still take solo trips, we’re going to hang out, we’ll just look different from the way it did before because you’re getting older. And I think that it was so difficult, but I think that that confirmation really helped you know, her and so that’s really valuable is that knowing that maybe there’s other stuff to uncover. I mean, you know, as obviously, you know, you’re a doctor and child development, there may be things that need uncovered. That’s so good.

Tamara:

Yeah, it’s usually the things that are unsaid that cause issues, especially when it comes to decisions, after the decision is made. So if you can bring to surface things that are going to be potential challenges that are going to be hard about decisions after they’re made, if people have already had a voice to start to bring those up, then it’s much more likely that you’re going to have plans to talk about and deal with those issues later.

Nicole:

Oh, brilliant.

Tamara:

So after you make the decision, really, the final step is to set the time of when you’re going to review whether that was, like how the decision is going.

Nicole:
Oh, that’s so good. That’s so good. That’s so good. When I tell you how often people think you make the decision, you’re done. I mean, you’ve got to run into that all the time all the time. And and reviewing is actually the final part of the process. And can you tell us more about why like, what am I looking for? What is the value of reviewing?

Tamara:

So if you know what success looks like, then you can look later to see if it was successful. But if you don’t think about what success of a decision looks like beforehand, then even if you did review later, you wouldn’t even know what you’re looking for.

Nicole:
That’s so good.

Tamara:

And if you make a decision, there’s going to be consequences. And if you have a time and you have the expectation that you’re going to get back together with your alliance, review where things are…

Nicole:
Oh wait a second, so you’re saying put this on the calendar!

Tamara:

Yes.

Nicole:
So so guilty, guilty, guilty. So you’re saying that, like I should end it like as part of the decision making process, while we’re still deciding, say, Okay, no matter what we’ve decided on this, we’ll come back in 90 days. So even though we’re doing we can all do this for at least a little amount of time knowing that we’re going to come back and talk about how it’s going and how it feels.

Tamara:
Yes.

Nicole:
That is like, I’m not kidding. That may be, I may even call this episode, the one mom tool, okay, that you are not doing that will transform your life because there’s something to be said for telling your kids. The decision is temporary. So we do an after school program for our little one. And she historically has not loved after school programs, but based on time, it’s good. I mean, these kids get out of school at like two o’clock. Mom is still working, you know what I mean? It’s the middle of the day. So you know, we found a program she likes well enough, but she still prefer to be home. And so I told her, You know what, you’re getting older. Let’s do this, at least until December. And in December, we will review this you know, but let’s not argue between now and December, because we decided this is what’s happening. And then in December, we’ll talk about how it’s going and maybe we’ll change it. It never occurred to me. I could do this anywhere. Like, we’re gonna do bedtime, but let’s do it till 7:30. And if you can do that consistently, then we’ll bump it to 7:45, listen. Dr. Tamara, you changed my life right now. Like I’m not kidding. Every mom right now is like wait a minute, hold on clutch, this is fire.

So last part of the decision making process is to review the decision and put time on the calendar for when you’re going to do it in advance.

Tamara:

Yes. Take a genuine look. In organizations we say about quarterly sometimes if things are really moving fast monthly, but most organizations, this quarterly is enough, to look at what’s happened since what’s going well, what’s not going as planned what’s emerged that we weren’t expecting so that you can either totally pivot, or you can shift course. And it’s about refining that decision and how it’s being implemented.

Nicole:

And getting ahead of the problems. I mean, like, honestly, if I’m doing that every 90 days, I noticed you didn’t say six months, you didn’t say a year. You know, I’m not letting it go so far. So I have a huge problem. This is brilliant. So I know there’s so many nuances. I know, there’s so many pieces here. I am intrigued. I cannot wait for all your stuff. Where can I learn more about building my own alliance, using these alliances strategies in my business and my family? I mean, heck, I see how I can use this with my man. This is good stuff. Where can we learn more?

Tamara:

How you could start by going to FormanAlliance.com.

Nicole:

Okay, and what will I find there? I find like all the stuff we talked about here, but I needed on a pronoun, because I you know, every family’s got decisions every day. And they can start using this to turn their family into an alliance and tap their resources around them. In addition to in our businesses, like, all that stuff, is there at formanalliance.com.

Tamara:

Yep, you’ll be able to download a guide that shows you who to have and who not to have in your alliance.

Nicole:

Ain’t that the truth? That’s also a thing. So y’all, I will have that in the show notes. Dr. Tamara Hamai, I thank you so much for being here for sharing this brilliant concept for giving me some real aha moments. And again, all your details will be in the show notes. We’re all going to follow you, keep up and build alliances of our own. Thank you so much.

Tamara:

Thank you.

Nicole:

Hey friends. I am so beyond excited to be here with you today. Now if you have already watched the beginning of this chat over on Instagram, if you haven’t, head over to at Nicole Walters. That’s what I am all around the internet. But if you head over to Instagram you will see that I started doing this chat live over there. So this is a very special conversation. Now I know you’re used to me coming to you in your car or while you are making dinner for the kiddos, you name it, we spend a little bit of this time together.

But this particular chat, I let you guys pick the topic, and I also recorded it live for you. So you could see how it goes. Because we typically don’t always do it like this. So here we are having the potential for a face-to-face if you want to see this one head over there. But of course, I’m so excited to chat with you today.

Now, in today’s chat, as picked and decided by y’all we are going to talk about a hot button issue. Whether you are an entrepreneur or a mother. Whether you are balancing your corporate career, or if you’re just a stay at home who has… I should remove the word just. If you are a stay at home master mama, you are wondering about balance. It is easily the thing that people ask me the most. Now, if you are coming to this chat for the first time, or you are recommended or we are meeting for the first time, you may be wondering, why would people ask you, Nicole about balance? You know, what is that all about? Well, I want you to know that if you’ve followed me for the past couple of years, you know that I’ve got a lot going on. And when I say a lot going on, I don’t just mean my issues, right? I got issues, okay? I’ve got a lot going on in my life, right? God is still working on me.

But when people say you have a lot going on, they mean that I am juggling a lot of career-driven balls, right? So I’ve got TV show deals that I’m working on, a book deal. And a book that’s actually out right now. It’s called Nothing is Missing. It is on shelves everywhere, you’re gonna hear little ads tucked in here. And they’re all about it. But it’s on shelves, and it’s going to be available October 10. So you can grab a copy anywhere books are sold, but I have a book deal. I do private coaching and masterminds.

Just today alone, I did podcast interviews and promotion and press. I did a live keynote, I interviewed for another episode, this incredible woman that I cannot wait for you to meet. And when I tell you, I do have a lot going on. I also have three kiddos. I’ve got an 11 year old who I worry won’t make it to 12 because she is driving me crazy with the preteen-ness. I also have a 21 year old which is a category in and of itself. And a 24 year old who I mean, plot twist spoiler alert, they never leave. So you can understand that, more than anyone, I definitely have stuff going on just like you.

Now, what does that mean? It means that I have to be very aware of where I’m going to be with my time. And that’s the first thing that I wanted to share now. I think that when it comes to balance we hear and we see people on social media and they seem to have it all together. Am I right? We get so frustrated when we are watching moms that seem to know how to serve their kids pancakes, and also you know, decorate their whole house and they’re also making millions of dollars while they’re doing it. And then they have these incredible marriages and we’re just like my god like, woman how are you doing all this? And you have abs?! Y’all I have one ab and I’ve had one abe easily since 2007. I don’t even know where the other five are located, right? And then these women are out here doing it all and with greatness now applause to them but the truth is truth bomb. They’re not. These women have glam teams. These women have and I say this as someone you know I live in LA. Okay, there is a behind the scenes glam squad. 

When I tell you there are women who go into birthing centers. And when they go into those birthing centers, they bring their glam squad. They deliver the baby, they hand the baby off, they get glammed up, they bring the baby back and they host the photoshoot. Truth, truth moment. So I’m just letting you know right now, don’t believe the hype.

The only reason you may feel out of balance is because the awareness around true balance is not real online. Sit in that for a second sister. You’re feeling like you’re the only person who’s living in chaos, when in reality, no one’s talking about their chaos except for me. Y’all know that I’m sitting in the backseat of the Target, eating a copious and an inappropriate amount of cheese while watching old episodes of friends. That’s who I am. That’s who I’ve been. Right?

So between the two of us we’re here thinking we’re going crazy but the truth is, so is everybody. Everyone is a hot mess in the morning, hashtag did not wake up like this. So what I want to tell you is awareness is a mess. But what I want to tell you about having balance in your own life is that it’s possible to have imperfect balance. So if the goal that you’re defining for yourself is, I will always spend an equal amount of time in each area, and all areas will be perfectly fruitful. That is not a reasonable goal. It just isn’t possible. And no one is doing that.

Let me be the friend who leans in and tells you this, if your goal is to be in all areas of your life, absolutely perfectly, flawlessly, and performing equally. And all those areas are incredibly fruitful, isa lie, sister! Okay? Breathe easy exhale, and no, you haven’t even failed and you aren’t failing. Because it’s not a thing. It’s not a thing.

And I talk about this a lot in my book, that you know, all the things you’ve seen from the outside me accomplishing these goals. So many of you first met me when I quit my job live online in front of 10,000 people, and, you know, left corporate America and branched into my own business. And since then you’ve seen me add all the income streams and add all the babies and do all these things. And I have to tell you that, you know, the truth is, I got really out of balance. Oh, I can feel the tears starting to well up. You know, I didn’t do any of these things with balance and I’ve never been someone who said that I wasn’t balanced. You know, my blood pressure was 173 over 153 when I knew that I had to change my life drastically and alter the way I was doing business. If that’s not a sign that you’re out of balance, I don’t know what is.

I managed to grow really, really well in certain areas. You know, my business was thriving, my professional life was thriving. My kids were thriving, and, and I felt good about how I was showing up in the world. But I knew there was more I could do in a different way. My marriage wasn’t doing great. But that wasn’t necessarily solely due to my professional things. It just kind of always had that as an overtone. But when I tell you, none of that had to do with perfect balance.

So here’s the plot twist, I’m going to tell you kind of spoiler alert, what it really is about. It’s about perfect presence.

I just want to shift your perspective, this language that you hear all the time around, aiming for perfect balance is not real. It’s not helpful. It’s not graceful. And it’s not an authentic goal to strive for, if you are someone who is trying to succeed professionally. Heck if you’re someone who is trying to just take care of your babies, and also drink your water, moisturize your face, you know and have a snack here and there.

If you’re aiming for perfect balance, you will miss the mark every time. What I would love to see you shift to is perfect presence. Now knowing that you will be imperfect, that’s real life. But if the goal is perfect presence, which I’ll explain to you in detail, you have something far more attainable, that you can actually aim for. So this is what perfect presence looks like. I always love to use this example. We’re all going to juggle a lot of balls in our life, right? We have to become masterful jugglers, but I want you to get really great at identifying which of these balls are made out of rubber. And which of these balls are made out of glass.

So here’s an example of how I’ve identified that in my life. Rubber balls are things like carpool pickup. If I pick up my little one or if the Misterfella, my guy Alex, picks up the little one. Not really something that’s a make or break in my relationship with my tiny, right? She’s not going to remember every single pickup over the course of hundreds of pickups during her schooling career, right? It’s a rubber ball. So if I miss one, I can bounce back from that. Are you picking up what I’m laying down?

But there are glass balls. Glass walls are also being juggled with the rubber ones. And glass balls look like things like did I make it to her for a school play? The week that she started middle school did I decide to travel on that date? Or did I decide to be home to make sure I was supporting her? So I’m going to use a real transparent moment, you know as someone who is solely responsible for my babies and is, you know, I’m grateful the Mistefella is here all the time and is supporting us but you know it’s just me. I’m the primary parent. And what that means is when she was going into sixth grade for the mamas out there listening and for the women who remember Middle School, it’s crazy. You think you kind of know what you’re going into, you have first day of school excitement. But there’s so much happening. There are bigger people in the school, lots of emotions, lots of feels. And that is exactly what occurred.

I knew she was going into something new and that my job as a mother was to make myself available to her. I didn’t know what I was preparing for, but I knew I needed to be present, just in case anything came up. So what did that look like in a business standpoint? It meant that when I was scheduling my book tour, which is happening from October 9 through October 18, that when they said to me, Nicole, when can we do this book tour, I said, look, the publication date has got to not be around her first week of school. Ideally, not around her first month of school. I would like to have a good solid six week to two month cushion around this time, because not being there to support her during the beginning of middle school means that I may drop a glass ball that will shatter the rest of her schooling career.

Now I know that can sound dramatic but I know my daughter, that contextualization, right putting into context, experiences she’s having at the forefront, keeps her in the game. She’s a new human to this planet and everything that she’s being introduced to is still new. So I really want to make sure that as she walks into her experiences in middle school, as she’s introduced to older kids talking about things she may not have heard before, as she gets new homework and more responsibility and more flexibility and more independence, that she has a mom that’s there on the day she needs to talk about it and the mom that’s there on the days that she may not think she needs to talk about it. But someone there is looking at her and saying a conversation needs to be had. And I am the person who does that. I am her mama. And so you better believe that that was a glass ball that I was juggling, and it was not worth shattering.

So right there, I just want you to take a moment and pause. How many of you, wow many times have you sat here and felt like everything you are juggling in life, that you’re trying to “balance” is a glass? All that Oh, my goodness, what if I drop it? What if it shatters? What will I do? These are all such serious things. And I’m the only one who can do it. I want to tell you’re still going to keep juggling, but you need to start realizing that certain things fall into different categories and you’re not going to be perfect every day. You will drop the ball. I just want you to keep your eye on what really matters. And that’s what perfect presence is.

So perfect presence is essentially look, I travel as a mom, I work really hard. Part of my brand is being on TV sets. When I’m filming a show I am working 15 hour days. You know, I meet with clients, I have speaking engagements. I’m really blessed and I’ve worked hard to have the career that I have. But my babies are always my priority. You can ask my littles, all three of them, right up to 24, on any given day, if I was on stage, with the fanciest of fancy people, if they called me I’d have to say, I’m really sorry, Beyonce, I gotta move. I gotta go, my baby’s calling. Best, sis. That would be the energy.

And I know that you’re the same way too and so perfect presents is that when I’ve identified where I need to be and what matters most in each season, because it often will change, right? It has changed just with three kids alone, where I need to be for my 24 year old in some seasons is different from where I need to be for my 21 year old. And same with my 11 year old. So where I need to be in each of these seasons is critically important to identify because when I am there, I am all in.

I aim for a perfection in my presence. I want my kids to feel like they are the full priority. Like they are critically important. Like I am all in and totally interested in everything that they have going on. Because one, that’s the truth. I love my babies and I want them to feel and know that because if I give them that, it can hold them through the weekend that I have to leave and go do a speaking gig. And so that’s what I aim for.

So here’s some simple ways that I maintain perfect presence. If I have to, you’ve never heard this one before, so you hear people say on the internet all the time, put down your phone, right? When you’re with your little, give them perfect presence, put down your phone, don’t look at your phone, leave it in another room, like you hear that all the time. Am I right? Well, I want to tell you that I have other kids, right? <laughs>

So when I’m with one of them, not having my phone could be an issue because my other kids may need me right? And I have people that I’m responsible for, you know, and for a long time, I had a father who was very ill with Parkinson’s. Keeping my phone near me is a real thing plus I work. And so I want you to know right now that perfection in that form for me looks like I’ve gotten really good at if I’m using my phone, and I’m with my kids, and I’m addressing something brief. I will say to them, just like this, Hey, cutie pie, what you’re saying to me is really important and I want you to have my full attention, can you hold that thought for a split second, while I just finished this, so that I can give you all of my attention because I don’t want to half hear what you’re saying. Because I want to be all in. And so what will happen is if and I try again, to not look at my phone, let’s understand that that’s the baseline, right? If perfection is I’m not looking at my phone at all, sure. But if something comes up, or if they catch me and walk into the room, in the middle of a text, I just articulate that they’re important to me, and that they are not more important than anything I’m doing on my phone.

And so I say all of this to you so that you can understand that. Look, there is imperfection built into any of these processes but perfect presence looks like attempting, having intentionality around letting your littles know that they matter to you and that they are something you’re focused on in that moment. So when I think of balance, knowing that the life that I live, the business that I run, and frankly, I just wanna be completely honest, you don’t have to be a business owner, to feel out of balance.

If you’re a mom, you know, I talked a moment ago about those seasons with your littles. You know, I’ve got one that will be 12 soon, you know, 21 and 24. They’re all going through their own version of stuff, particularly because they’re so far apart, that, you know, it’s work to keep up with them. It’s work to keep up with, it’s not easy. You know, so my 24 year old. Some of you may know this already, through some of these conversations, but if you don’t, and you read, Nothing is Missing, you’ll kind of hear the foundation of this, but she is in the middle of a recovery journey and right now, I believe she has about 170 days sober. And I am so so so so incredibly proud of her, because she puts her sobriety first. And she knows that we are all champions, you know, for her care, and self love and loving herself. And my 24 year old though, also knows that I’m never ever leaving. And if she calls Mama, I’m there.

And in various seasons during her sobriety journey, and in various seasons that you will read about, you know, in my book, I’ve had to be there for her in different ways. You know, some of parenting as a mother is knowing when to let go and let live, you know, watching them experience things, knowing that everything that you have put inside of them, they still have. So I was very much in balance and in flow with her growth, because that was how she needed me in that season.

The same thing applies with my 21 year old, as you read Nothing is Missing you’ll hear about some of the cancer journey, we went on with her she was diagnosed with stage four cancer. And thankfully, she’s completely fine. God is so so good. But we have the chemotherapy journey during that journey, oh my gosh, keeping imbalance with having two other children, you know, was very difficult and any parent that has a child that has, you know, super special, you know, needs or has different attention requirements, you know, understands that the guilt that you feel of not being able to sort of be with each child equivalently is tough, but, you know, sometimes certain kids need you more, differently and the balance is actually being there in that season. It wasn’t forever, but for that timeframe, saving Krissy’s life was me being in balance. There was nowhere else and nothing else I needed to do.

So I also want to extend that grace to you, you know, yes, sometimes we’re going to drop a ball. Let’s try to make sure that the rubber ones and knock glass, you know, yes, once in a while we’re going to be in situations where we’re called to work a little bit later than normal, or we have to answer the text message at the table. Let’s make sure our littles know that they’re still the priority when that happens. If we have to travel and be away, you know, set the expectations and the boundaries with their littles. I tell my littles all the time, especially my 12 year old, hey, Mom’s gonna be in a place where this is what the time zones are so I want you to know that even if you call me if I’m asleep, this is when I’m going to be able to get back to you and know that that’s what that means. It was a timezone thing, not a secondary priority thing and if it is urgent, I want you to know that these are the people you can contact and somebody will come to my room, knock on my hotel room, wake me up and I will get on that phone.

So I can tell you that in empowering my littles to understand that they are always the priority. It has allowed me to empower and bless myself with the grace to make mistakes. And I do, often. There have been seasons where I was so out of balance, that in that season, the priority was me. And that is something that we don’t hear very often. And we don’t encourage that moms ever take time to make themselves the priority. But when I tell you, as a mother, if you are in a season where you hopefully have a partner that understands, you know, hopefully are in a situation where you have that grace, if you need to take that week, even if it’s just a staycation at home girl, if you need to take time to heal, to get better, so that you can get back in there, that is the priority that is staying in balance. And that is some of the shift that I hope you can make in knowing that that is my truth. 

I have no hesitation about the time that I’ve had to take to make sure I restored myself considering how hard I work, and how deeply and thoroughly I have showed up for the people in my life and how I’ve supported and how I’ve built and also knowing that anything that we do, especially as moms, I mean, look, whenever we know that we’re going to be leaving town, what do we do? We stocked the fridge, we clean the house, we make sure things are there. For those of you who have the financial flexibility. We hire nannies and staff and after school programs, I mean, look at us, you know what I mean? Our babies are our priorities in a million ways. And all those things matter, right? Filling the fridge, hiring the nannies, all of that. But more than that, the part I want to add to you, which again, helps us make sure that we’re maintaining that healthy balance, quote, unquote, balance, right? Is making sure that we’re communicating that they’re the priority and when we are there, we’re aiming for perfect presence.

So friend, I want to let you know, first and foremost, I need you to grant yourself some grace, these constant conversations about remaining in balance about doing it all and doing it perfectly and still getting perfect fruit. Frankly, they don’t serve anyone because it is also no one’s reality.

Wherever you are right now, if you’re saying to yourself, I should have been there or I could have done that. Or this was a place where I could have done more. I want you to focus instead on where you are now and doing the best you can and know that as long as you’re intentional and your heart is with your babies and you’re communicating, you and all that you do is enough. Friend, remember nothing is missing.

Nicole:

Hey friend. So I want to have a different type of chat and I know that in the past couple weeks, we’ve been able to hear from the Puffin, and from some of my expert friends and chats with Misterfella. But I wanted to just be us this time, because what I’m going to talk to you about, it’s a little unorthodox, and I’m going to tell you about something I did recently, that just doesn’t make a lot of sense. But I know it was right and I have to be honest and tell you about it.

So if you’ve been keeping up with me on social and if you’ve been keeping up with, you know, all the happenings, then you know that I’ve got a new book coming out. And the book is called Nothing is Missing. It’s my memoir, it is the story of me growing up and having the parents that I’ve had African immigrants that wanted the best for me, and navigating through college, so much happened before we even met on social media many years ago.

And then it goes a little bit into, you know, that in-between time, building a business becoming a mom. And then it talks a lot about what it looked like to transition into different phases of life, to start over, to figure it all out and still not second guess who I am, and how I want to show up in the world. Spoiler alert, lots of second guessing happened. But I don’t want to talk to you about what’s in the book. Honestly, it’d be great if you grabbed a copy. It’s out October 10. But I want to talk to you about this book process.

So I had an episode a few back where I talked a little bit about turning down a big book deal that just wasn’t in alignment with me. But I want to talk to you about what it takes to get your book in the hands and expand your message. And frankly, for me give God the visibility he deserves. Because I wouldn’t be here without him.

So friend, I have this book and it took me four years to write it. It started off as a business book. And that business book was supposed to tell you how to get from A to B, how to build it in between, how to hit all the marks, how to check every box, and you know what? That book would have been an easy best seller because I know what I’m doing. And I got the proof to show it.

And even more, that book would have been a cakewalk to write because I know that stuff like the back of my hand. And guess what it takes no emotion for me to teach it. But if I’d written that book, it would have been a disservice to all of you. Because that business book would have been the steps to build a life and generate the revenue to support it that I didn’t even want.

With everything that I’ve been facing over the past few years, there is one thing that I’ve come to with all certainty and trust me, with divorce with moving, with reconstructing your business in a different way. You better believe there’s a lot of confusion and a lot of wondering if this is the right path. And there is one thing that remained really clear, I knew that no matter what I wanted to proceed forward with the most truth, the most clarity and in a way that is most in integrity, with how I wanted to show up and serve in the world.

And that’s why when it came time for me to pitch my book, it wasn’t about business. It was about the why, behind the what. I can teach you all day what to do but we have to be clear on why we are doing it. And that’s what the past couple of years have been. In dealing with sickness and restarting, I kept asking myself, why am I here? And I had to go back to move forward.

So when I pitched this book, when I pitched the proposal for the concept and shared some of the stories with publishers, I was terrified because I knew it wasn’t what they expected. And I also knew that I’d never shown up in the world like this before. But when I put this book out there, you could imagine my surprise when over 26 different publishers showed up and raised their hand and said oh, we want this. You could also imagine my surprise when the one that I said yes to gave me one of the biggest book deals in 2021.

Friend, it was the first time that I received affirmation that I was enough. My story, my hardships, my triumphs, the things that I’ve overcome. That was enough. They didn’t want a business book. They wanted the truth.

That first portion was the hard part, getting someone to buy in and support and to show up. But the second portion, writing it, almost broke me. Because at the same time that I’m going and unpacking the trauma, the challenges, the difficulties from childhood until now, and trying to simultaneously extract the lessons, the outcomes, the purpose behind so much pain, I had to live. I had to heal. I had to build.

I gotta tell you, it’s a miracle that I’m here. And you’ll understand more when you read the book. But that this is all just the background, I want to tell you about something that happened after the book was done. So when your book is done, you’ve got to get it into people’s hands. And it is no small feat to have big goals, like becoming a New York Times best seller. Now I want to tell you right out of the gate, the title would feel good, it’d be an affirmation that you can show up as you are, and reach the highest of heights. But I also want you to know that being a New York Times bestseller for me, isn’t just about me. It’s about us.

It’s about the world knowing that you can get places without compromising who you are. That it doesn’t take being some superstar celebrity, or sacrificing being a mom every day and throwing in your own load of laundry. And that you don’t need to be a bajillionaire, or have climbed Mt. Everest, that regular people have worthy and valuable experiences that can make an impact and change lives. And our stories deserve to be told.

I want us to get up there. Because I know that God is no respecter of persons and if he can do it for me, he can do it for you. But what’s become very clear for me is that writing the book wasn’t the challenge that God wanted me to face. The challenge, the lesson that I have got to learn, the attribute that I’ve got to gain, is I need to learn how to ask for help.

And I know that doing this boldly and publicly, and to the community and friends that I love is also going to be a lesson for you. Because when we cross that threshold, and we share in that title, we know that it was us that got us there. Friend, and there’s only a couple more weeks until this book comes out. It comes out on October 10. I have until October 15 to sell 20,000 books and have made great progress and it wasn’t by myself. I’ve asked you to pre-order. I’ve said hey, if there’s any way you can donate or share or support and you’ve shown up.

But it was the other day when I realized here I am asking boldly but how can I give greatly? Now, if you have followed me for a while, you know that I teach business and I do it well and you also know probably about my hugely popular signature program 1K1Day Academy. Now this program is in its 21st cycle of students. Also this program has been around for almost 10 years. It is transformative. It typically costs $1,000 to be part of it and you get to work with me live side by side for six to eight weeks. And I’m really there, you can ask anyone, this program is legendary.

But I’ve also heard over the years that so many of you haven’t been able to participate because it was just a little too much. And if there’s anyone who understands how deserving we are of a fresh start, have a chance to commit to our dreams without sacrificing all we have, of a chance to start over after feeling like we’re losing ourselves. Of a chance to just show up in the way that we want to, without feeling that we’ve given the last that we’ve got. I get it. I know, I’m not the only one who’s been beat up over the past few years. I know I’m not the only one with a dream, a belief, a knowingness, a calling that’s nagging at you.

Friend, I know that there’s something on your heart that you want to build. And I want to be there to build it with you. And so where I am asking greatly is friend, I want you to have this book in your hands. And I want you to learn why what we build matters. But where I’m asking you to give greatly is to show up in 1k1day Academy. If you haven’t heard, if you go to 1k1day.com, I am now giving away my signature $1,000 program for the purchase of one book. Not $1 of that book goes in my pocket. If you go into your local bookstore and you purchase that book and send me a picture of the receipt, that is your admission ticket. That is your ticket and your price for a fresh start. $30 gets you in. I will work with you side by side for the next two months. And we will start over 2024 with the start that we all deserve. Fresh.

Friend, I want you to know that one of the lessons here is what it takes to ask. This past week I had an ask session, if you will, where I invited a lot of you from social media and from just the years that we’ve been hanging out together to meet and chat online. And it was in that session that I told you about what I was doing here with 1K1Day and I have to let you know, I came to the idea to do this a few weeks ago. And I had to get it approved. I had to talk to my team, I had to talk to my accountant because I mean, this is absurd. I’m literally making $0 and asking you to just get a book, right? Like I’m literally saying none of this matters. I know you have someplace you want to start, I know this book will help you. Please get the book and help yourself.

And when this came to me, I can tell you, it’s that same feeling of having a great idea that you aren’t quite sure how it’s going to materialize or manifest into realness. But you know, it’s the right thing to do. When I had my ask session, my webinar this past week, I had my whole formal Fancy Pants deck that I was going to present. It had all the details, I was going to walk you through my story and I was going to explain the course. And then I was going to tell you about this incredible and rare opportunity. But I got on there and I started chatting with all of you. I mean, we had like 1,000 of you just hanging out with me. And I think we had another 1,000 that didn’t get in; it was just wild how you guys showed up.

And when I tell you it was the best time. I mean, the community we were loving, we were supportive. We were laughing. I mean, if you’re not coming to the nothing is missing tour which by the way, the tickets are available now at NothingisMissingBook.com I can’t imagine the energy that I felt on that webinar in person. So I can’t wait to see you and I hope we get to have a hug. But on that night we were there chatting and I have to tell you and this is what I was hinting at at the top of this chat. I knew I was supposed to follow the rules. I knew that there was a formula that was in place. I knew that my team was watching and I also knew that I have a responsibility to be great example to all of you when I’m trying to build my business and serve big.

But I also knew that I was amongst friends. I also knew that these were the internet aunties that supported me, and sent me DMs while I was going through the hardest of times with messages like, Nicole, I don’t know what you’re going through, but I’m praying for you. Nicole, I don’t know what’s happened but I see your heart and I see your soul and I’m excited for your turnaround. Stay in it.

I knew that these were the internet aunties that helped me raise my babies and cover us in prayer. And even in knowing all of that I was terrified, terrified to throw the plan out of the window and tell you what my intention was. Now I know that the idea of getting into 1k1day at no cost, just the cost of a book that you get to keep is outrageous. Who does that? It does not make sense, mathematically, timewise, I mean, I’m working on a TV show. But when I tell you, it’s the right thing to do. And I know this, without a shadow of a doubt, this is what I’m supposed to do. And that was all I had to fuel my big ask.

I want to pause here. Because I know so many of you can relate to this emotion. How many of you can take in just this moment, whether you’re in the car, or in the grocery store, on a walk, or just listening in the background, and say to yourself, I know that there’s something even if I can’t put my finger on it, that without a shadow of a doubt, I am supposed to do. And I know that I need to take the next step to get closer to that thing. But I’m scared. And I’m unsure of the outcome. But I still know that this feeling is not going to get quiet if I don’t do it. And it’s the right thing to do.

Friend, that emotion you’re in right now, that was me. I was standing in a room, a virtual room, of my very best that it’s seen me at some of my very worst. And yet, I was terrified to articulate the one thing I knew I needed. I am not going to sell 20,000 copies of this book. I’m not going to put it in 20,000 people’s hands if I don’t ask my friends to help. If I can have them say are you willing to grab this as a gift? Do you know a local church or woman’s group that would like a few copies of this? Is there a way that we can sponsor a local adoption agency or foster network? Or do you just want to grab one for yourself? And in exchange, I want to teach you how to build that thing. I want to give you the tools. I want to answer your questions and get you a little closer to the thing that’s pulling at you.

Friend, all I had to do was ask. Have you ever heard the saying closed mouths don’t get fed? Yeah. Nicole, big old mouth Walters was terrified. But you know what I did? I did something I haven’t done in a very long time. It was the beginning of my fresh start. I thought my fresh start started with writing this book but in reality, it started with me being willing to put this book in the people’s hands by asking big.

And friend I have to tell you, when I look back on it, I don’t know a single fresh start that didn’t happen that way, with me asking big, getting into the room, jumping into something new when it didn’t all the way seemed clear. But I knew it was right. Every time it’s worked out. It’s because I’ve boldly gone into a new frontier that I didn’t think would pan out but I knew it was exactly where I was supposed to be. And coupled with that, it’s always worked because I had you with me. My community, my people, I’ve never had to do it alone. Thank you.

So friend, this is it. I’m gonna give you this very same ask that I gave to everyone who showed up for this chat. I want to ask you to do this with me together to let me pour into you to help you build that thing to trust me with your fresh start. But it does not come without a commitment fee. I want you to get this book and I want you to actually read it, I want you to highlight and take notes. I want us to work this thing together. And I want us to build it right. And of course, I’m going to show up for you. We’re going to work side by side together. Go to 1K1Day.com. You can grab a copy of this book, keep in mind you were trying to do this with local bookstores because they need it. Bookstores deserve the support because they’re local businesses just like us, they’re regular people.

And we have the opportunity now to put every dollar into their family’s bank account. You grab a copy of Nothing is Missing by Nicole Walters, at a local bookstore online. I love Kindred Stories out of Houston, Texas, and East City Bookshop out of Washington DC or Anderson’s Bookstore in Chicago or Romans Bookstore in Pasadena, California, or 44th and Third in Atlanta, Georgia. All of these bookstores are local, they’re small, and they have an online presence. And every single dollar supports them and the community.

When you grab a copy of this book, head over to 1K1Day.com, click submit your validation. And tell me a little bit about yourself, your name, your email address, and give me a copy of that confirmation. Why? So I can put it on my wall and believe this thing is real, because I can’t even believe it’s happening now. And that’s it.

You got the tool to understand why all this matters but you have the community and the friend who’s going to help make it real. I gotta tell you, it’s taken a lot for me to boldly ask like this. But I also know I can’t do it alone. And I know that to be true because I’ve never had to. And for that I’m so deeply grateful. This relationship is so meaningful and we get to take it one step further with this book. When you discover that nothing is missing, it’ll change your life. I gotta tell you, now that we’re in community together, everything is better.

Nicole:

Hey, friends. So one of our very favorite chat that we have ever had here was when me and the Misterfella hung out with my dear best good friend, Dr. Morgan. Now, if you miss that chat, go back and listen to it. She is brilliant. She is the foremost relationship expert, especially for us young ins, and young and meaning over 30s. You know, but, you know, not quite married for 55 years, you know, and she is so so good at teaching you about attachment style, about why we are the way we are when it comes to our partnerships. And above all else, she dissected the heck out of me and Alex’s relationship. So that’s a great episode, you have got to listen to it. But because we loved having her here so much, I brought her back because I’ve got something really personal that I kind of want to unpack and it’s something I’ve been working on in therapy. But I had a lot of really powerful insights and I felt like having Dr. Morgan who I love here today to talk with you about it will really help some of you to have breakthroughs also.

So that being said, my dear, dear Dr. Morgan, I’m so glad you’re here.

Dr. Morgan:

Nicole, thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited.

Nicole:
So y’all don’t know this. But I love this lady like it’s literally I don’t know if you can hear my voice. I love this woman. Morgan, you are brilliant. You’re kind, you’re smart. You’re so good at this relationship stuff that like I literally want to have a separate podcast series like just us, like talking just this stuff.

Dr. Morgan:

Let’s go!

Nicole:
I know what’s great is people can catch a lot of your goodness on your podcast, Let’s get vulnerable.

Dr. Morgan:

Yes, very good.

Nicole:

Y’all like when I tell you, if you like the way that I chat transparently about kind of hot mess today probably shouldn’t have said that. This is you know, this is a different way I could do it. You’re gonna find out why I am those things on her podcast. She will literally break it down. She’s an official, professional real life doctor.

Dr. Morgan:

Yes. Thank you so much for that intro and I am so happy to be here with you. I was telling you I read your book on the plane. I feel so privileged that I was able to get a copy.

Nicole:
I just wanted you to know what you’re getting into literally, why y’all you have no idea like Dr. Morgan’s like a friend for real so it’s like, I am so nervous when he’s spoken to people’s hands. But I also know I can trust you because you understand.

Dr. Morgan:

Yes, I do. And I was on the plane sobbing as I’m reading your book. There are so many parts that I feel like I needed to hear. And I know that anyone that reads it is going to feel that way. Yeah, the person next was like, are you okay? I’m just having some healing moments as I was reading your book, Nicole. I am so excited to get out there. Seriously

Nicole:
Thank you so much. I appreciate you, y’all if you haven’t heard about the book, it’s called Nothing is Missing. And it is on shelves everywhere, October 10. But it is available for pre-sale now. And obviously my best good one was able to get an advanced copy because she’s amazing and great. And honestly, I’m trying to have my friends read it so that I Don’t chicken out in this whole process. I think my friends look at me being like, No, it’s okay girl, like you can read like that sentence makes sense.

Dr. Morgan:
It’s beautifully written. I think everyone needs this book. I know, I saw so many parts of myself and people are gonna see themselves in it. And it’s so real. It’s so honest. I read it so quickly. I couldn’t put it down.

Nicole:
Oh my gosh, people say it’s unputdownable. It is not even a real word. But that makes me feel so good. It is hard to read sometimes. So like get through even if it’s like, you know, good for you. It can be hard to be a page turner. But yeah, some of the like, I always like to say it’s a mess, but it’s not messy. So it’s a good read.

Dr. Morgan:

It’s such a good read. And I got to the end and I was like okay, I want to know about Alex, I want to know about the love story. Like where’s the rest? I’m already ready for the next one.

Nicole:
Yes, yes. Yes, there’s definitely a lot of goodness to come. So I’m so so glad that you enjoyed it. And thank you for that affirmation, you’re the greatest. Well, I think what’s great about you being here is part of what I want to talk about, I’ve never talked about on the podcast before.

And you are the perfect person for me to one, feel safe right, in talking about these things with and to know that you’re able to contextualize and give practical results. This is like your whole jam is like, you’re not just a type to be like, well, this is what a narcissist is, or this is what you’re like. And here’s how it shows up and here’s what you need to do. Like you’re really, really great about this.

So I want to talk about how people pick their partners, and how that relates to your parents. Because when I tell you the first thing that came to my mind when I came out of divorce was my picker is broken. I have not been able to pick the right partner. And I can’t trust myself to do so. So I just need to be single forever. So the idea that I’m with someone who’s great. And when I tell you I don’t even feel, God picked him for me because I still don’t know if my picker is right girl like I really don’t know. But I want to talk about that. You’ve read my book, you know, I talked about my childhood. You know, my father now, having read the book.

Can you tell me more about how these things relate? Do we really end up marrying our fathers and becoming our mothers?

Dr. Morgan:

Hmm, I’m already getting emotional. I haven’t even answered. Because, okay, Nicole, you wrote in the book, this sentence, and this is what got me to break down on the plane. You said, I was traumatized by my father. I was also loved by Him.

Nicole:

Yep.

Dr Morgan:

And understanding the nuance of that, that as a child, that’s what your brain wired for love. Love equals this, right? So you have those blueprints that are created about this is what a relationship is, this is what love is. And it’s not like you consciously can go change it. It’s no, it’s hardwired. Like your brain says, this is what love is. And that shapes every decision you make in your dating life.

Nicole:
Wow. And that’s bananas. Because it sounds like and you can confirm or deny. You aren’t choosing to be hardwired this way. Is it just like your body sort of taking in visuals of whatever, and then building an image of love? And like what type of visuals are you taking in? If that’s how it works?

Dr. Morgan:

Yes, I know, you’re a metaphor person.

Nicole:
I’m like what’s the example, Girl.

Dr. Morgan:
Yeah, here’s the metaphor: your brain has a file cabinet. Okay, that has relationships, right? And it’s taking all the data from your experiences and filing them away in this file cabinet. This is what a relationship is. Most of us go throughout our lives, never questioning what’s in there. And when we’re healing, the goal is that we empty that file cabinet out. Look at all of it.

Nicole:
No no, sounds terrible. No, thank you, right?

Dr. Morgan:

It’s so much work. And we decide like, Hey, this is what serves me. This is what I need to add. But yeah, it’s completely unconscious. I want to talk about a term with you that applies here, which is called repetition compulsion.

Nicole:
Oh, pause. I love these, y’all if you weren’t thinking to write some of this stuff down. I tell you, when I find out new terms, it unlocks. It doesn’t mean I solve it right away. But it gives me a reason to not feel guilty or pressured or ashamed because I realize there’s something outside of myself which means this is a thing.

So I love terms, repetition compulsion. So this relates to how we choose our partners later in life based on what we saw growing up. Definition, how it shows up need to know

Dr. Morgan:

Yeah, absolutely. So you are repeating the pattern that you had the blueprint, if you will, of what a relationship is and it’s a compulsion, meaning it’s not conscious, you’re doing this unconsciously. And here’s the thing that people don’t realize is we have this unconscious wish that this time, it would be different. That if this time I choose this partner in my adult life, and they’re emotionally unavailable, but if this time I can get them to love me, that’s going to make up for everything I experienced as a child.

Nicole:

Oh, that is weighty, weighty, weighty, weighty. So to try to put this into like real world context. And honestly, I’ll use myself because you know, that’s the thing I do here. So if I grew up with a father who always was transactional with their affection. So if you do this thing, then you’ll get this. If you get the great grades, I’ll give you a hug. I love you, when I see you succeed, I dislike you when I don’t, then, but success is defined by me or whatever. Then when I get older, and I’m seeking a male partner or a partner in whatever context, and I meet them, if they say, Oh, you cook dinner, here’s a hug. Oh, you didn’t cook dinner? You’re useless. I won’t see that as being a bad response. Instead, my brain will say, oh, that’s what I’m used to. That’s still and maybe even worse, I’ll call it love.

Dr. Morgan:

Yes, absolutely. Yes.

Nicole:
And not know that that’s not okay. And if anything, I’ll look for that. Because that is what’s appropriate to that.

Dr. Morgan:

Oh, and this is the big one. So you have a relationship homeostasis, comfort zone, with relationships.

Nicole:
Kind of like when you know how the doctor say, when you lose weight, you have like a happy weight, or you know, where you want to stay in their cycle? Yeah, your setpoint. So we have that in relationships also.

Dr. Morgan:

Yeah And it’s not even conscious, it’s biological. It’s your belief systems. It’s what you know, to be true about relationships.

Nicole:
So I want to speak to that. Because I, you know, and I try not to talk to my girls too much. But we’ll talk we’ll get into that later. Because a lot of why this came to mind is I have to be very conscious of my decision relationship-wise, because I’ve got three girls in those formative years where they’re picking their partner. So it matters a lot to me, but you’re telling me that unknowingly, I may choose chaos, because chaos is what’s familiar to me.

Dr. Morgan:
Absolutely.

Nicole:
Even though we do know when things hurt, and we do know when they’re painful. And we do know when they’re uncomfortable. I may still say no, I like like for me and my relationship. I’m a busybody. That’s what I grew up seeing. My mom always was on the move. She was always doing something in terms of caring for, preparing, like I will do everything in the household. That is a household I replicated for myself to my own medical, physical, mental detriment.

But that is what a relationship was. And that was me in homeostasis, that’s like me trying to be normal.

Dr. Morgan:

Yes. It’s your relationship, comfort zone. That’s what a relationship is. Even if I don’t know that I’m doing it. Yeah, we’re gonna do it unconsciously, until we heal until we change.

Nicole:
So let’s get to that part. Because this is already, like a lot on the spirit girl. So you’re telling me that I am unconsciously going to seek out partners that are similar to relationships where I was hurt as a child to try to fix it as I’m older?

Dr. Morgan:
Yeah.

Nicole:
And then I’m also going to try to pick the norm, which may not be a good norm, because that is what I’m used to. So if those are two things are going to exist, how do I know now, when I’m with Alex, that it’s different? Like, how do I get out of this? If I don’t even know I’m doing it.

Dr. Morgan:

The wonderful thing is that this can change.

Nicole:
<exhales> We all need to hear that, right? Everyone needs to hear that!

Dr. Morgan:
Exhale! Exhale! I think for some people, and I’ll speak for myself, it took a really traumatic experience for me to realize, okay, this has to change. And I know once you get to that place, and then you’re willing to have the awareness and you’re willing to do the work on yourself, when you change, you attract different people.

Nicole:

Right, so so I guess like not getting cart before the horse? How do I even identify that I’m in a partnership like that? Because I have, and not that I become a relationship expert. But listen, you get one failed marriage under your belt or one really bad breakup, especially when you go through the long season of healing, and I tell you, I have spent like a college education, a mortgage, in therapy. So it’s like, having done all of that, I look at some people’s relationships. And I’m like, there’s no possible way you think this is healthy. Like there’s no possible way this seems normal, like you don’t see it, but there’s something here not okay.

So how do they know that they can get out of it? How do they know that they shouldn’t just keep trying or that they could change or whatever, and that they’re not just in one of these terms?

Dr. Morgan:

Yeah, I think I mean, it takes both individuals realizing it, like both people have to realize, okay, my norm, even though it’s my norm, it’s not healthy. It’s not adding value to my life. It’s not sustainable and secure.

Nicole:

So let’s get practical. How does that show up? Is it like, oh, we fight every week, or we can’t make decisions, or I want to buy a new house, and he’s very okay living here, like, you know, how are people going to see this in their life, that they may have things that aren’t healthy?

Dr. Morgan:

I think one of the easiest ways to know this is if the relationship is draining energy from you. If it feels like a job, if it’s taking your energy, and it’s not adding to you, it’s not adding value, that’s one of the easiest ways to know.

Nicole:
Oh, that’s so good. That’s so good. Because we talked about this over lunch, I told you, me and Dr. Morgan are real friends, I like to surround myself with therapists. So we talked about this over lunch. And I think that a lot of people get confused with relationships, because people always say, marriage is work, you know, and it’s not going to be easy. Like we hear these things, and they’re true statements.

But it’s the type of work. So we sat over lunch, you can have your corporate job, and you can have your entrepreneurial job, you know, and both of them our work, but boy, do they feel different? And is that what you mean, when you’re saying with marriage that like, it’s work, but what does it feel like energetically?

Dr. Morgan:
Yes. What does it feel like? Yeah. And I do think if you feel like, wow, I keep trying to express myself, I keep trying to change things and nothing’s working, like you’re trying to show up, and then nothing’s changing. Right? You’re probably repeating old patterns. And yeah, it should, it should feel like work but work, that’s easy, I say.

Nicole:
I say worthy work.

Dr. Morgan:
Worthy work! Yeah!

Nicole:

Like when I tell you like, coming out of divorce, and having, you know, starting a new relationship, my relationship before it felt like a lot of work, but it didn’t feel forward moving. That’s the language, even though it was hitting marks, you know, like I was progressing in my career, and like, my kids were thriving, and all of that, you know, those are things I think the world kind of measures it with. But I didn’t feel like I was growing in my relationship at all. We weren’t becoming closer, we were not bonding more, we were not, you know, more intimate or making decisions for our future together.

I did not get visions of being in a rocking chair, you know, next to this person forever traveling the world, like it wasn’t growing. Whereas now I have, my relationship is a lot of work. But man, is it for it’s like the meaningful, worthy work that says, we’ll be where we want to be later.

Dr. Morgan:

Yeah. Where you’re getting that return on investment.

Nicole:
Right, I love a ROI.

Dr. Morgan:

I know <laughs> Where you’re showing up and you’re going, Yes, this is so worth it. We’re growing together, we’re building something together. We’re a team, this is a partnership. I always tell people, you want to feel like you are co-creating secure attachment.

Nicole:
Ooh, talk about secure attachment. We talked about this in the last episode, but it’s always relevant. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Dr. Morgan:

So both people have to want to create a relationship that’s stable, that’s consistent, that feels like a coming home, a safe place. And when you’re doing that, together, you know that you have to be attuned to your partner, and you have to ask them, What do you need to make this feel secure for you?

Nicole:
That’s so good.

Dr. Morgan:

You have to be curious, be attuned to your partner. And that’s always evolving. So insecure attachment, it’s this genuine curiosity of I care, you know, I want to know, what do you need for this to feel good to you.

Nicole:
So let’s talk about the converse of that. Right. So I can’t tell you how many you know, I can mostly speak to women, obviously, in that side of the relationship. But, you know, a lot of women will say, like, I can’t remember the last time my husband asked me what I needed. You know, there are a lot of women who can’t who won’t say that, like, I can truly say I’m in a relationship right now, where I literally am asked daily, by my partner, is there anything you need? Is there anything I can do differently? And I also offer that to him.

Dr. Morgan:
Yes.

Nicole:
That is because we are intentional about that, because of what we’ve had before. However, I had been in relationships before where that was never a question. And even if I offered what I needed, that wasn’t necessarily returned. A lot of women just think that’s how, quote unquote men are. You know, can you tell us a little bit about that thought process? One, is that true, you know, and two, is that just repeating what we’ve learned, is that repetition?

Dr. Morgan:

Yeah. Wow. I think men are so hungry for emotional connection, for support. And I think even though maybe we’ve labeled them that way, or society has said like, oh, you know, you can’t express your emotions or it’s been invalidating towards men, men and women, we all want the same thing. We want that emotional safety, that connection, right? It just hasn’t felt safe for them.

Nicole:
For sure.

Dr. Morgan:

So it’s all about just as you said of you expect him to say hey, how can I support you? How can I be there for you? We also have to reciprocate that. We have to tune in as well. It has to go both ways. And I do know this because I know we want to talk about parenting as well, yes.

That if I was a child, as a little boy will will say you had a parent that when you cried, they said Don’t cry, right? Like, think about the message that that that sends…

Nicole:
Like your feelings are valid.

Dr. Morgan:

Yeah. So then what happens? You shut down, right? You shut down. And I do feel, I wonder if you feel this way. But in our society, there’s a lot of men that are really like waking up to their emotions.

Nicole:
Oh for sure. I mean, I’m with a guy who’s like, I, he’s told me the other day, and I’m sure he wouldn’t mind me sharing this, that he realized that his family didn’t say I love you enough, and that his friends didn’t say I love you enough. And he was like, and I love these people, and I don’t care. So he started saying, I love you to all of his friends. So he’ll get off the phone and say ok I love you, man. You know, and all of them say I love you back. And you can tell there’s a change in the energy when you see it, you know, and it’s a really beautiful thing. And it’s really meaningful, because, you know, we’re not hurt by more, I love you’s, you know?

Dr. Morgan:

No, I mean, and, and there has to be people who are willing to be brave and break the mold and do the healing, yes, be comfortable to sit in the emotions. And it just comes down to if we didn’t have that as kids, we didn’t have that safe space. And we never learned how to feel our emotions for ourselves, who’s going to ever learn how to be the safe parent for ourselves, right? So if I can’t be that way for me, how can I be that way for you? In a partnership, I’m not connected to my emotions so how can I even connect to yours? Right? So that’s why so much of great partnership is about the individual as well.

Nicole:

That’s so good. So I mean, so if there are women out there who are saying, well, my guy just doesn’t talk about his feelings, you know, or, you know, he never asked me what I need, or he never, you know, or even if he did, he’s like, I don’t know, and just kind of brushes it off. We shouldn’t just settle with accepting that to be the case, because likely that is showing either something they’ve learned or something, it’s not that men are just hardwired to not be like that.

Dr. Morgan:

Right? I think that’s our society.

Nicole:
Society. That’s so good. That’s so good. Well, then, let’s go back to where it comes from, right? Parenting. So, you know, one of the things that I have, you know, kind of talked about maybe tiptoed around a bit. But, you know, part of the transition, you know, from my previous relationship to my current one, you know, a big factor that I’m learning and realizing now is how important it is that my three girls witness me being loved well.

And when I tell you, I thought for the longest time that what mattered was me telling my girls, this is what a good man is. And this is what you want to look for in a partner. And this is what’s a relationship. But I didn’t realize, like you said, these little mini messages that they can pick up, you know, from watching you. And I’ve shared before, there was a situation that occurred in my current relationship with my little one, where we were getting onto the freeway, and she said to me, just unprompted, mom, I can tell you really like Alex, because you and Alex are very smoochy, smoochy and you and dad worked very smoochy smoochy, you know, and that her saying like affection. And you know all of that. She’s only 11.

And I was like yeah, it was like you know the language what I’ve shared with her in terms of divorce as well, you know, me and her dad spoke a different language. And, you know, we were really good friends. But you’re right, you know, me and Alex seem to understand each other a little bit better. And so yes, we’re very smoochy, smoochy. And that’s how he is. And you know, and it’s great that I’m able to find someone who’s like that, and what do you think about it?

And we had a little conversation about it, but I just didn’t even know that she was taking that in because she’s saying it out loud now at 11. But at what age do kids really start knowing that your parents maybe aren’t affectionate? Or when can they start picking that up?

Dr. Morgan:

Honestly, from birth.

Nicole:
Oh, every single every single mama right now who’s like when was last time I hugged my man? What was that? Send me hug me. What was it when we kissed in front of them? Like, every single one of us just cringed.

Dr. Morgan:
So it’s so felt.

Nicole:

Gosh, it’s true. It’s an energy in the household. That’s true felt so everything from now is it just physical touches? Is that what they’re picking up? Like, you know, Alex talks about walking by his dad kind of like patting his mom on the bum or, you know, always holding the door for her and things like that. And he does all those things for me. He talks about watching them fall asleep on the couch together. And you know, all of these things he witnessed growing up and frankly, like, I don’t know if I ever said this and I love his parents like they are just the dearest of people and his dad still does this stuff like they are in their mid 70s. And they are still like this. It’s like a little weird, a little gross and very sweet.

Dr. Morgan:
I love it!

Nicole: 

It’s like I mean, like, you know, you’re watching these to like flirt, almost, you know, and I’m like, Oh my gosh, I’m with a guy who has seen this. So you’re telling me that kids can pick up that energy.

Dr. Morgan:

Oh yeah. when they’re really young, they they pick up on everything. Sure, sure, whatever you take a deep breath, but it’s everything. Like how you handle conflict too.

Nicole:
As a couple. Yeah.

Dr. Morgan:

How you handle it. I remember I was four years old and I still which is crazy, right. But I remember my parents getting in a blowout argument. They remember my mom leaving the house and driving off into the night. Ooh, what do you think that did for my fear of abandonment? She didn’t come back for days. So even as a child what did I learn about conflict? Don’t do conflict?

Nicole:
Don’t do conflict…

Dr. Morgan:
Don’t do conflict or someone will leave.

Nicole:

Yeah. Which is also crazy. Because, you know, as adults, so many of us, like, depending on what we grew up with, might think that that was a great response. Right? Like, instead of because, you know, from an adult healthy perspective, we’re like, oh, she needed space. She asserted a boundary, she, you know, or whatever, you know, and it’s crazy, because kids don’t have the ability to process on that level. Right?

Dr. Morgan:
Yes.

Nicole:

Like, they don’t know, some of the nuances there. They just see presence and no presence, right?

Dr. Morgan:

Yes. Oh, my gosh, and this was one of the things I loved about reading your book, Nicole, where you talk about with your girls, you would always tell them, I’m here. And I’m never leaving.

Nicole:
I’m never leaving.

Dr. Morgan:

And I just think how crucial that is for kids, because they don’t know it. Right? Especially when you come from a chaotic upbringing. You don’t just internally know it, it needs to be expressed.

Nicole:
Over and over. And I still say it to them. I mean, it’s amazing how each of them, I can see, you know, I don’t talk about this question in the book, but I’ll talk about it with you, because you’ll understand, you know, I’ve got an 11 year old, a 21 year old and 24 year old now. And I’ve been their mom for 10 years. And I can see 10 years, 10 years of telling them in birthday cards, in person, every day, with the words I love you that I’m never leaving. And they each believe it on a different level. Which is, you know, their siblings, you know, but my 24 year old is still working on believing it. She knows it in her mind, but she doesn’t know it in her heart.

My 21 year old knows it in her heart and mind and is out in the world and fully functioning and, but still has moments where she has to touch base, you know, where she’s like, still there? Still there? So it’s like, more secure. Yeah. Where she’s like, I still have to reach out to make sure you’re there. And I know you’re gonna be there, but I just need to check still. Yeah. And my little one, I mean, I literally could leave her for four years. And she’ll be like, my mom was coming back because she does not leave, like what do you she can’t breathe without me. You’re crazy. Like, you know, like, that’s her energy. Yeah, is mom would never leave. And that is baffling that anyone would think that. But I’ve had her since three.

Dr. Morgan:

Yeah. This all makes sense from the attachments.

Nicole:
So tell me about that, that factors into our relationships down the line, right?

Dr. Morgan:

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you think about to have secure attachment, we need a secure base. We need that parent that’s attuned that’s going to be there. If we’ve had a bad day…

Nicole:
Does it need to be both or can it be one?

Dr. Morgan:

Hey, to develop secure attachment you just need one person.

Nicole:
Heyy. That’s a beautiful thing to hear. Because, you know, especially going through divorce, you worry, you’re like, oh my gosh, you know.

Dr. Morgan:

For me, it was my Aunt Peggy. I lived with her from age 12.

Nicole:
OH! It doesn’t even have to be a parent parent.

Dr. Morgan:
No, it’s just if you have that person. I mean, I lived with her, you know, she basically adopted me, but it’s like, if you have that one person that is demonstrating secure attachment. And then the earlier the better.

Nicole:
Yeah.

Dr. Morgan:
Right. And then you can internalize it.

Nicole:

So at least have a baseline. You know what it looks like?

Dr. Morgan:
Yeah, some people maybe had a teacher that was like this for them. Right? Like, it can come from different sources. But yeah, it’s great if it’s a parental figure.

Nicole:
That’s incredible. I will say that transparently. I don’t. I’m not kidding. I don’t think I have ever spoken about this to anyone besides like, Alex. So I went to boarding school. And in boarding school, we lived in dorm style homes of about 12 students with what they called House parents. And so there was a married couple, and they tried to run them sort of family style, you know, so family meals, things of that sort. And having grown up with parents and you know, people read about this in the book, you know, I go into detail about it, chaotic relationship, you know, like it was, you know, I did not have a good parental marital example. And it was interesting because I had the benefit of living, during ages I’d say 12 until 17-18, with other parents, you know, and, and they are I won’t say their name just for their own privacy because I did not plan on talking about this, but my other dorm parents, they are like other parents to me, and what was interesting, I’d love to hear your take on this.

I picked the wrong relationships for the longest time. And part of it was I was sort of I don’t know how to explain about blindly just going to relationships. I never thought what do I want in a partner? What do I need? And what do I already know? It wasn’t until I went through the divorce process. And I said, you know, if I get back out to the world, what relationships are in my bank that I can call from to say, I want one like this. And they were my dorm parents, they’re still married to this day. They are some of the most incredible humans I’ve ever met in my life. And the way they treat each other with so much love and respect and I know that their marriage wasn’t easy, like, I know that they had hardship. And they faced everything from sickness to health to difficult children, and they just it is the definition of a partnership to me. And I never thought about it. I’m not kidding, knew these people. I was married for 12 years and never thought about their union as one that I wanted until a little bit before I met Alex. And they were in my bank of people.

So is that like, can you pull from anything? Does a TV show count, like, I don’t know, you know what I mean?

Dr. Morgan:

I love that we’re talking about this, because I work with clients around this all the time. And they’ll come to me and they’ll say, I don’t have any secure attachment models.

Nicole:
Yes. Everyone’s a mess girl. Yeah, you know?

Dr. Morgan:

Yeah. And I’ll say all but there are some just think about it, you know, for you as your dorm parent. Yeah. I always say yes, it can come from the, you know, whoever, the Obamas! There’s…

Nicole:

So is that, like, is it healthy to use fictional characters? Or is it pretend?

Dr. Morgan:

When I have people I have them create a vision of this is what securely attached relationship looks like? These are the standards, right? We got to get clear on what are the standards, I have them pull from different sources. But you never want to, like just try to get all your sources from one place. You want to develop it, but you can be creative. You can get it from different places. Absolutely.

Nicole:
Yeah. So that’s interesting to me. So you’re telling me that, because I worry about if you pick something fictional, especially in the age of reality, yeah, you don’t want to hold up…

Dr. Morgan:
Yeah you don’t really know right?

Nicole:
That you don’t really know what’s going on. And things are edited. Plus, also, the Kardashians are relationship out there. Are they necessarily the example of the one that you want? You know, or can you just pull pieces?

Dr. Morgan:
Just pull the pieces that you know, create secure attachment, just pull the pieces that feel good to you. And you have to think about okay, if my brain has never done secure attachment before, I have to build a map for it, I have to build a model for it. Right.

Nicole:
It’s like building a business. 

Dr. Morgan:
You have to intentionally build it. Yeah. So before you met Alex, you’re going back to your dorm parents, that was part of your brain saying, Okay, we got to rewire some things here. This has to look different this time. So let me build a different model.

Nicole:

So what you’re saying is I can extract from what I’ve seen, pull those pieces, and then create a model that works for me. But yeah, again, parental models are what works.

Dr. Morgan:

Yes.

Nicole:

And we have, we can’t skip this work. Basically, if there’s any point in time, where we want to have a relationship that is really thriving, whether it’s the one that we’re in or entering a new one, we’ve got to do the independent work to prepare by going back. And then in order to move forward.

Dr. Morgan:

Yes, pull out the filing cabinet, the relationships filing out and dump it out, you got to see what’s in there.

Nicole:
Ughhhhh. I don’t wanna.

Dr. Morgan:
<laughs> you’ve got to!

Nicole:
Oh, my gosh, I have to tell you, I am so grateful you’re in my life. I’m so grateful that my friends get to know you here because you are easily, I don’t even want to say the next big thing, because we’re already out here. And your podcast is like top rated and it’s so good. And it’s filled with goodies. But like, I just think that the way that you apply relationship theory and clinical science, and just make it so approachable and practical is just so real. And you know how I am about like, I mean, you got in my car and I was like, Girl, would you like a car? Twizzler like, I haven’t claimed that like everything. Like I just need the realness. I don’t need the perfection, you know?

Dr. Morgan:
Amen.

Nicole:
And I appreciate the grace that you offer to because you’re like, yeah, it’s gonna take you a while to work through it because you’re kind of a mess girl, but guess what, you could do it.

Dr. Morgan:

Oh my gosh, I’m just so honored to get to know you, Nicole. And I mean, I love love, love you and your story, and I just know how important it is.

Nicole:
Uh, thank you.

Dr. Morgan:

You know, I think back to my early 20s when I just thought that okay, nothing in my life is gonna work out. I’m a complete mess. I’m not enough, things are so badly wrong with me. Like, you know, I needed Nicole at that time.

Nicole:
Aw. And you’re here now to help people Morgan, you are doing this great work and you are such a gift. And I’m just grateful that we’re both on the side of team Love and team Healthy Love and team sure love, like, and people can work with you too. So I’ve got a bunch of friends here who are like, I’m never dating again, Nicole, your relationship gives me hope but for you, not for me.

But you actually have things to and I gotta give you a shout out here like because your stuff actually works. You work with people to help them find love and prepare themselves. Tell us more about that just real quick.

Dr. Morgan:

Yeah, I developed an eight week framework that takes people from whatever attachment style they currently have into secure attachment.

Nicole:

Amazing. So if you’re the girl who’s frantically like why would he text me back? It must be because he hated me. I’m overthinking all of it. And then you’re wrecking everything. You can make it so that I don’t freak out when I don’t get texted back.

Dr. Morgan:

Yes.

Nicole:
Oh. Buy it for all your daughter’s get them ready. Get them in the world, honestly, like it’s a gift for the kids. I mean, you get your 24 year old in that before they have to do it.

Dr. Morgan:
Yes, yes Nicole, you know, I know we talked about this. A lot of people I work with, they wouldn’t do it for themselves. But they have little kids and they come to me and they say Dr. Morgan, I need to be able to be in a healthy relationship because my daughters need to see a good example.

Nicole:
And our sons! Because yeah, you get to create the types of guys that I get to date later. The good. Yeah, my baby girls, your internet aunties. They’re going to need husbands someday too. So please raise them up for us.

Dr. Morgan:

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And I love love the work I do. It’s so meaningful. I mean I”m geting all these wedding invites, babies.

Nicole:
I support that, if nothing but for the cake. Okay, I support it. So all that being said, Where can people find out about you? Where can people sign up for your course? And of course, listen to your podcast.

Dr. Morgan:

Yeah, the best place is on Instagram at Dr. Morgan coaching. And then I have links in my bio about the Empowered Secure Love Program, the week program. And then yeah, everything’s on the podcast as well. The let’s get vulnerable podcast.

Nicole:

So good. It’ll be in the show notes. All the details. Are there y’all. I don’t bring people on here too often. I definitely don’t like promote or share, especially if it’s clinical. Dr. Morgan is the real deal. It’s actually good. And guess what? You deserve that good. Love to so thank you, Dr. Morgan for being here with us, you are a gem.

Dr. Morgan:

Thank you for having me. And I want to just shout you out again. Can I please order her book. this is seriously life changing. And it was honestly healing for me in so many ways to read this book.

Nicole:
Do y’all see how she is? Do you see how she is? Please, please follow and I’m having you back like this has got to be a regular thing. Like, I just there’s so much healing. So promise me you’ll come back.

Dr. Morgan:

I will. Absolutely.

Nicole:
Ok I’ll see you then.

Dr. Morgan:

Thanks Nicole.