Nicole:

Friends, so you know how I feel when I find something I love and I’m obsessed with and I lose my mind – whether it is popcorn or fudge or the latest, best, most effective health thing. And right now, you’ve heard me talking about my fertility journey. You’ve heard me talking about getting my health right, especially in this new chapter of my life. And a huge part of that has been exploring supplementation. Lord knows I can’t live off of Capri Suns and Cheetos. And I’ve got to figure out how to get my goodness and my body so that I am safe and well taken care of. And I met the most incredible woman. I mean, you know how I am, I’m a god girl, God does things very specifically. Nothing is by accident. Her name is Lana Jackson. If you have not heard of Lana Jackson, look her up, google her, follow her on Insta. She is inspirational, she’s incredible, and she’s also the CEO and founder of Brown Wellness. Now, Brown Wellness is the only that I’ve discovered, brown, BIPOC-specific functional wellness supplement brand. Now, I know that’s a mouthful, but I’m telling you, this is something you need, and there’s no better person who can talk about it than Lana herself.

And I’m so excited because she is here with us to sit, to chat, to help us learn. Y’all, if you are dealing with things in your life and you need a little extra boost, Lana is going to tell us how to get it. Lana, thank you so much for being here.

Lana:

Thank you, Nicole. I’m so excited to be here with you.

Nicole:

Oh, my gosh, I’m so excited that you’re here. You have no idea. I had to keep it together, just doing my intro because I was like, I can’t bring all that energy right out the gate. You got to calm down and say the words, Nicole. So I’m so glad you’re here. Brown Wellness is everything I’ve been looking for in this journey.

I mean, I’ve experimented with using so many different types of supplements. And being honest, a lot of them work great. I’m not disappointed in what I’ve tried, but I really am in a chapter of my life where I do, one, want to support black-owned businesses wherever and whenever possible. But I also want to make sure that I’m able to use products that I think, when my daughter opens up the cabinet, she sees herself centered.

So can you tell me a little bit more about your journey and why you even felt there was a need in a $47 billion supplement industry to carve out a little piece specifically for the BIPOC experience. Tell me what we don’t know.

Lana:

Yeah, well, it’s a long story. I will start by saying that my wellness journey really began really young for me. So at 13 years old, I was diagnosed with Crohn’s disease.

Nicole:

Wow! That must have been really a struggle at 13. I can’t imagine. My eleven year old can barely get out of the house and tire her shoes. I can’t even imagine.

Lana:

And it was weird because I still remember that moment when I’m in the doctor’s office with my mom and I’m talking to the specialist and he looks me dead in the eye and he’s just like, I want you to understand you have a chronic medical condition. This is something that you’re going to need to manage the rest of your life. Do you understand?

Nicole:

At 13. No, you don’t understand. I barely understand why I have boobs now. I don’t understand anything. No, I don’t know how to manage a diagnosis like this. That must have been terrifying and overwhelming and I can’t even imagine.

Lana:

But actually it kind of wasn’t because in my small brain, I was just like, okay, so are we going to Dairy Queen after this? Yeah, but I couldn’t fully grasp it. But at the same time, I’ve always been like a sensitive child. Like, I’m an intuitive person. And so I was kind of like, I see the gravity of this moment, but my world wasn’t big enough to comprehend what that was going to mean. I know when an adult is talking to me and telling me something serious, and I hear that and I’m wondering about, okay, what’s the next thing? You just can’t comprehend.

Nicole:

Of course. You’re not thinking, oh, I have Crohn’s disease. How’s that going to affect? Will I eat wedding cake at my wedding? Will I go on vacation and eat freely with my friends? Will I be able to be comfortable enough to go to work? A 13 year old is not thinking about those things. Of course, of course. So I think that is probably worth giving. Context is one of the things we really connected on, was being first generation. So for me, that’s always meant that when I would deal with any type of health or sickness or whatever, my parents, they understood the value of conventional medicine, particularly being in the US. But they didn’t necessarily lean on it. They were very quick to say, well, try a tea, or I even think culturally, as black people, we’ve learned, grab some ginger ale, or, I don’t know, take a hot shower, try some Epsom salt.

And there is so much merit to that as we’ve gotten older, because we do tell our kids, have ginger ale and crackers, and it really does work. But how did your parents deal with that diagnosis? I mean, did they think, let’s keep getting you tested. What did you do? What were the next steps?

Lana:

I think that it was really a journey that my mom and I went on. And both of my parents are divorced now. They got divorced when I was in college. But their marriage, both of them are immigrants, and their marriage was always really difficult. And I think that my dad was not really as involved and really hands-on. It was really my mom. Even to this day, the way that I navigate my wellness is because of my mother.

Nicole:

That says so much.

Lana:

Yeah. And so obviously, both of my parents are Caribbean. They’re Ghinese. They’re from Guyana. And so, yeah, there’s this wealth of wisdom about wellness and about medicine that you take with you as an immigrant when you come into another country. And it’s so fascinating to me because I think that my mom had a good grasp and understanding of traditional medicine. But at the same time, when I think about the diaspora and black people, whether it’s Africa or the Caribbean, medicine is actually something that happens every day. In the west, we’re like I don’t feel well, what can I take to do something?

Nicole:

That’s so good.

Lana:

But typically within the African diaspora, I know for myself with my parents, they would always give me this bitter tea. Like, we would have bitter tea to clean out…

Nicole:

Like detox.

Lana:

To detox. Sometimes we would have it before a meal, and of course, I would take it and pour it in the corner of the carpet.

Nicole:

Who wouldn’t? Now that is universal. None of us want to take the stuff from our parents, whether it’s hiding the peas under our mashed potatoes or pouring out the bitter tea, none of us are trying to do it. I get it.

Lana:

And I was the strong-willed child, so I really wasn’t going to do it. Yes, but there’s wisdom in that, right? Because bitters help to break down food for digestion, and also the herbs that are in, that are cleansing your liver, they’re getting into your bloodstream. So there were things like that that my mom would give us, but I don’t think that she made the connection between those things being advantageous for gut health.

Nicole:

Even from a medicinal standpoint. We don’t know why we’re doing it, but we know we’ve always done it so good. And you know what’s interesting about that? So many of my crew here, we are all very much like the old school type, or we kind of come from a traditional background. But a lot of us also, we come from different cultural backgrounds. And these are some of the things that I think really draw us closer together, because we realize that there’s so many similarities in, oh, if you’re sick our parents will try sort of this list of things that are actually very natural, very organic, plant-based before they really grab even the ibuprofen.

In Italy, I just learned it’s common to have an espresso after meals because they found that the coffee aids in digestion. Also, the little bit of caffeine stimulant keeps you from getting that soporific effect where you start getting you want to take itis, you don’t get the itis, which lends itself to moving and walking and things of that sort. And it’s just amazing how we have not integrated or carried so many of these things. Unless it comes from your cultural background.

Lana:

Yeah, because I think especially if your parents are immigrants, you kind of get disassimilated, right? From where you come from, especially if you’re like a third culture kid. It’s like your parents are from somewhere else. Now they’re living someplace else, and you’re living where they’re living, but you don’t identify with that place either. So it’s just kind of like there really wasn’t a lot of dialogue around this for like, years. It’s only now we really fully understand the first generation experience.

Nicole:

Which is amazing considering that this is a $47 billion industry. So that means that and I think all of us, especially my friends listening, all of a sudden it feels like supplements or some version of supplement or everybody has a supplement. I mean, we see companies like Gwyneth Paltrow with Goop, Jessica Alba with Honest Co. All these companies are dipping into the supplemental realm, even companies that didn’t start that way.

You’ll have companies that started with athletic wear that are now offering supplementation, energy drinks, weight management tools, things of that sort. So what I noticed, and I think a lot of my friends on here, even those who are not BIPOC, are noticing is when you walk down these shelves, you don’t really see brown people heavily featured. It’s starting to change a little bit, but it’s not the norm. You’re the expert. Why is that?

Lana:

I mean, I think a big part of that is just appropriation, because a lot of the things that these supplement brands and companies are using come from black and brown communities.

Nicole:

Let’s pause on that one. So that is the truest of the true statements. And it’s funny because I never thought of it as appropriation, which I know can be a sensitive word for some, and it can feel triggering. But there’s a word I’d like to add to it, inadvertent appropriation. I think there is appropriation where it is deliberate, it is intentional, it is absolutely like appropriation tinged with colonization. Right. But then there’s an inadvertent where it’s like, I didn’t even realize my mom took this from her Chinese nanny who always did this for her, and I thought it was our family’s thing. And so here I am calling it my ancient family recipe, when in reality, this harks back to Eastern medicine. That is not derivative of my culture.

Lana:

Right.

Nicole:

So you’re right when you say that a lot of these medicinal things and herbs and treatments are in origin from Eastern and African cultures.

Lana:

Yes, the other side of the world.

Nicole:

Wow.

Lana:

And I want to say, too, because I think that’s a valid point, sometimes it is an invert in it. And I’m not even trying to imply that they’re doing it intentionally.

Nicole:

I think sometimes it is intentional. We’re not taking that away either. Some people are doing it very much on purpose to take that money.

Lana:

They are, but I also want to say that when I think about wellness, it’s a rainbow. And even as I’ve grown in my wellness journey, there are so many things that as a person of faith who loves God, I rejoice in seeing just the diversity of what this culture has understood now about the human body. They’ve grasped something like, I get acupuncture really regularly now.

Nicole:

Right.

Lana:

And working with my acupuncturists and really understanding Chinese medicine, like, wow, Chinese people have really grasped something about the way energy works in our body and praise God for them. And before I came here, I was in Santa Monica at Surya getting some Arabetic wellness treatments because Indian people have grasped something about the way our bodies work and digestion works and hormones work. So I say that to say…

Nicole:

There’s a beautiful medley.

Lana:

Yes medley, and sometimes we’re not intentionally trying to steal things from people but there are other things that other cultures have that we can benefit from. I think my thing was in this journey that I’ve been on with my wellness, I just didn’t see myself. I didn’t see something that reflected my experience. And the wild thing about that was I was diagnosed, like I mentioned, with Crohn’s at 13 years old. I’m 36, so it’s been two decades.

And for me, it’s kind of just like I have been through so much, and I never anticipated in my entire life that I would be without this condition because when that doctor told me that, though I was young, I’m doing my manifestation work, I’m visioning my future, and I’m seeing like, okay, I make time to go get my medicine. I have a nurse.

Nicole:

You’re taking care, you’re taking steps. And that’s got to be the hardest. And I think a lot of people there’s so much unspoken chronic pain that people don’t talk about because they just think it’s theirs to carry. And I think only now we’re starting to hear about people saying, look, I don’t have anything that’s terminal. I just have something that’s chronic. And it’s just what I’ve lived with. And I didn’t even realize I should talk about it to find out if there are solutions. And now we’re learning more. So your Crohn’s, is it still something chronic or how are you using Browne wellness? How does that work?

Lana:

Yeah, so what happened was when we went into the pandemic, so this is like 2019. I was experiencing the disease was somewhat under control. I’d been on a biologic drug for years. It’s a drug that they use for rheumatoid arthritis. It just basically helps to turn off that inflammatory response in the gut. And so I had a nurse named Sarah.

Nicole:

But did you have lifestyle things you also had to change, supplement it with that.

Lana:

At that time? No, I was taking my medicine. I was eating really good. I’ve always had to eat really good. I don’t drink a lot of alcohol.

Nicole:

I mean, but that is lifestyle. This is what I mean when I say you become so used to having to live a certain way, you don’t realize that, no, there are people who go out and on a wedding night, be able to have a couple of drinks and you’re like, no, I have to go in there with the awareness of on the menu. This is what I will choose, and this is how I will restrict, in addition to my medication.

Lana:

Yeah, because when you see the outcome of when you don’t, then you learn. And I grew up in hospitals. Like, doctors were my friends, nurses were my friends. I never really had a lot of friends in school because I wasn’t there half of the time.

Nicole:

Oh, my gosh.

Lana:

And so I learned how to read my labs. I felt like a doctor by the time I was in my 20s.

Nicole:

Sure, but you had to take this ownership over your care. And I think that that also speaks to some of the black female experience and the BIPOC experience, where historically we’ve had to deal with increased maternal mortality rates. We’ve had to deal with not being as seen and heard whenever we are in the conventional and traditional medical realm. And not obviously, like I always say, not everyone is the same, not every single scenario. But there is a systemic issue that does exist within the black experience where we have dealt and as studies and data has supported with a struggle of being heard in relation to our care.

So taking that ownership one, obviously is because a lot of these chronic diagnoses, I think everyone can relate to, It feels like if we’re dealing with something, we have to figure it out ourselves. And part of it is being brown.

Lana:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was the thing with how I watched my mom navigate my illness. Like, her being in the doctor’s office and the way she would push for questions, the way that she would just the energy she led with.

Nicole:

You’re not gonna play about my baby, that’s me all day.

Lana:

And it wasn’t even like she was even aggressive. It was just this expectation that we expect the best care. It never occurred to her and maybe because she’s an immigrant, but it never occurred to her that the color of her skin meant something different. Right. And so I absorbed all of that. And I go to bat when I go to I mean, I’m not argumentative, but when I come to the doctor, I see that relationship as peer to peer. And some people can’t accept that. And then I fire them and I find another doctor.

Nicole:

Do you all hear that right now? When I go in to see my doctor, I see that relationship as peer to peer. So your doctor is a part of your team.

Lana:

Yes.

Nicole:

Your doctor is not someone who is a hired vendor. They are not someone who is there to facilitate an answer. They are there as part of your team to work towards a solution.

Lana:

This is a collaboration because this is my body. And so anything that you decide, I have to live with. I’ve never understood the gaslighting that I have experienced, that I’ve watched my family experience. My younger sister has autism, we now know. I have gone to bat. I have talked to so many people to get her what she needs. In my opinion, it’s like I expect collaboration and the minute that I sense that that’s not there or you’re offended by my knowledge about my body, I’m out of there.

Nicole:

This is so empowering. I think it doesn’t matter what shade you are, we, especially as women, have got to take ownership over what happens to our body, how our body is treated, and feel comfortable being vocal about what we need. And I love that you are behind Browne Wellness in this capacity because you’re the type of voice that we need.

We need someone who has not only had to experience it, but has also seen success with it. So where did you end up going with your journey, with your health care? Did you have to supplement it? Did you just stick with the meds you were taking? Because I know 2020 was rough for all of us, girl.

Lana:

It was. But it was a big reset in a lot of ways which I’m grateful for. So we went into the pandemic. I started experiencing just a lot of really difficult gut issues and I was like, why am I having all of these issues when I’m taking my medicine? I’m doing what I’ve always done, what’s changing and something’s changing in the microbiome of my gut. And so I leaned out of working with my specialist because they weren’t listening to me.

Nicole:

There we go.

Lana:

I fired two gastroenterologists I was working with and I was like, you know what, I’m going to find a Naturopathic doctor because I think there’s something else happening here and they don’t want to look at the whole picture. And I’m desperate to.

Nicole:

Right. And at least to find out! And so I having friends who gone to Hopkins, and a lot of my friends are conventional medicine doctors. But I will tell you all day, there is nothing wrong with looking into everything and above all else, at least finding out, like, if it’s not this, then why not? I always tell my kids all the time and I think a lot of us relate to this, especially as parents, with my youngest daughter, when she’s sick, I’m not going to just run and give her meds if I don’t have to. Maybe some peppermint tea will work first.

And that’s because there is scientific data that any doctor will support that’ll say, mint helps soothe your belly, so why wouldn’t we try that before jumping to meds? And I think that that is one of the shifts that I’ve seen in Browne Wellness is it really is about daily wellness and how that is actually the ultimate form of preventive medicine. It’s just really focusing on staying well and being well. So in that journey, you landed on more natural methods. Now, you weren’t using these before, you were just taking conventional.

Lana:

That’s right. I was just taking my prescription.

Nicole:

Wow. What happened? Did you try both?

Lana:

Well, I was still taking my regular medicine because I had to do that to keep the disease kind of quiet. But you can have the disease be quiet and still have, like, IBS symptoms, which is what I was experiencing.

Nicole:

And you’re just living with it.

Lana:

You’re just living with it. And it wasn’t until the pandemic that I had the time to be like, okay, what’s happening here?

Nicole:

And you probably felt it more because Lord knows, and I think all the busy mamas that are on here, we’ve got, like, college kids, and some of my friends here are single women just driven for their goals. When you’re busy and buzzing, it’s so easy to just not even feel what your body’s feeling. And one of the things that we’ve shared is that during the pandemic, for me, it was, oh, my goodness, my blood pressure is crazy, and I’m technically resting, right? That’s my resting blood pressure. What’s happening? Like, I haven’t been on a plane in months, and my blood pressure is this high. What’s going on?

And just really getting my numbers and realizing, okay, if this is me and my most stay still state, then what does that mean about my body’s basic equilibrium? And then what does that mean if I tip the scale into stress? What does that mean if I have a baby? And it really begged the question of how can I be as healthy as I can be standing still so that I can definitely function when I’m running? Right, so you discovered oh, my gosh, in staying still for the first time and having the time, my body’s being weird.

Lana:

Yeah, my gut was acting really weird. So I found a naturopathic doctor. I was working with them virtually. I think I went through maybe three, four Naturopathic doctors.

Nicole:

Wow.

Lana:

They were all white. It was just hard to find someone who looked like me. And I eventually landed on somebody who is wonderful, my Naturopathic health coach, Nancy, who is a white woman, but loves me so well and is so patient and is so thorough. And what I realized was that I had a couple of things happening. I mean, there was, like, bacteria in my gut. I had, like, candida, all these different things. And so she and I worked together to put together a protocol to start treating some of these things with supplements. It was supplements and my mindfulness about how I was going to take them, use them, pairing them, just the whole rainbow of wellness. Because a lot of it, too, was me regulating my nervous system to accept some.

Nicole:

Ain’t that it girl.

Lana:

I mean, you can take a bunch of stuff, but if your nervous system is completely out of control and your nerves are shot, your body isn’t really going to respond to all things.

Nicole:

That’s right.

Lana:

So there is a component of it that is somatic and mindful that does go along with taking supplements.

Nicolee:

Right.

Lana:

And functional medicine. Functional wellness, is really about, like what you were saying before. It’s like we’re looking at the whole picture to figure out what is it that is happening? Is it we tested for this. Okay, it’s not that. Let’s look at this. What about this history that your mom had on your maternal grandmother’s side?

Nicole:

Right.

Lana:

It’s really looking at the whole picture and figuring out what do we need to get your body to function better?

Nicole:

I love that concept because it’s kind of like this is and this is, of course, the classic Nicole Walters translation of it. It’s like going to the restaurant and thinking, I’m not going to order the dish on there. I’m going to say, you know what? I feel like a side of broccoli. And I feel like this appetizer. And I also want the fries. It’s all food. We’re all at the menu. You don’t necessarily have to have the meal, that side, and that because that’s what’s prescribed to you. Maybe I can look at the whole menu and take the pieces that I know are going to make me feel full. And that’s actually been part of my lifestyle, like healthy wellness changes, is I’ll go in and I’ll say, well, maybe I just need protein.

Like, we went out to dinner last night and I was like, can I just get like, a side of steak? Because I was like, I feel like I need a little bit more protein and iron, and I love that. How many greens did I have today? Well, what type of greens do I need? I would like to have some Brussels sprouts because I want something kind of cruciferous, but I also want some spinach because I want to add to my protein. Just really looking at and saying, what do I need? And feeding myself accordingly.

Lana:

And I love that because my soul just went off because it’s the mindful part of it. Did I have any water today?

Nicole:

That’s right.

Lana:

Like, maybe instead of getting the diet cook, let me just have a glass of water. Did I eat any greens? Or if you’re on your cycle, I find, like, my body is like, man, we need a burger.

Nicole:

Yes. Very real!

Lana:

It’s the iron and responding to that because food is medicine. Food can be medicine.

Nicole:

And I love that because that’s also cultural. Coming from Ghana, West Africa, and having West African parents, that’s such a huge part of our diet in general. If you’re sending culturally, like if the men are going out into the fields to get palm to make palm oil or a palm wine, you’re not going to feed them the same way that you’re going to feed someone who may be staying home and in town. You’re going to feed them in a way that’s going to make sure that they feel lots of carbohydrates. It’s a different diet than the typical fresh fish and pepper sauces and things of that sort because they need to be sustained for the task.

And I think a lot of times some of our eating is either based on how we feel in the moment emotionally, which not a bad thing, there’s space for that. We’re not judging eating habits. Sometimes a girl needs some ice cream, but also not really thinking about, hey, I’m a mom and I’m busy and I’m going all day. What can I do?

And realistically, I can’t always be great about it. Or realistically, food isn’t always available. There are days where I am actually just grabbing my kids goldfish crackers because it was the quick thing and it’s not nothing. But supplements have truly changed my life in standing in that gap so that I’m not lacking come midday, if I’m feeling sluggish, you actually have a product that I love, love, love. You all hear me love and I’ll link it below. It’ll be like all the details around Browne Wellness, how to get started, how to figure out what to use. My favorite products this is not sponsored y’all, I just love them, will be in the show notes below.

So the product that I love midday, if I have not had my coffee, not done what I needed to do, I know I’ve got meetings, I know that I have got to get through the evening. You have a product that is a game changer. Can you tell us more about it and how that is part of sort of the black women take care of themselves?

Lana:

Absolutely, 100%. So we have a supplement. It’s a gummy, and it’s our mushroom complex. And it has ten different energy-boosting, brain-boosting mushrooms in it. In particular, my three favorite, which are lion’s mane, reishi and chaga. And lion’s mane in particular is one of my favorites because Lion’s Mane is a nootropic, it allows our brain to work better. So this gummy is something that you take when you’re like, I have a big day, I have to retain a lot of information. I need to maintain a certain level of energy so that I can get through and kind of just be in flow state. Just be in flow.

Nicole:

Sure.

Lana:

And not the kind of energy that’s jittery like when you drink a diet Coke or cup of coffee.

Nicole:

That’s right.

Lana:

But a gentle sustaining energy that’s also benefiting your brain. Right.

Nicole:

And tapers off, too. So it’s not like by the end of the night, I’m like, oh, I can’t sleep, or anything like that.

Lana:

Yeah, no, because then you’re like, got to take someone to go to sleep.

Nicole:

Now melatonin time, which is fine. You don’t always want to be in the bounce back and forth situation.

Lana:

That and I think in particular with women and black women, because we’re just doing so much. It’s not just that we need to be energized, we also need our brain to function well. You’re trying to remember if your daughter had her doctor’s appointment today, if you turned in that thing for work. And then also, wait, I got to drop by the storm, pick up all these extra stuff. I mean, it’s just ongoing. And so being in flow and being able to be energized, but also be cognitively like clear.

Nicole:

Absolutely.

Lana:

And that’s where mushrooms come in.

Nicole:

Well, and so I want to actually talk about mushrooms. And for the mamas out here, everyone, I don’t know about you all, I’m in LA right now. There’s been so much talk about mushrooms, and I am an old person. I’ll be the first one to say it. When I heard mushrooms, I was like, I’m not messing with them drugs. You’re going to have me out here seeing colors. That’s not for me. I’m not of this. But then I’m also now hearing that people are like, oh, no, I’m using mushroom to treat, like, depression or PTSD.

And I will be very clear, I have not done tons of research. I recommend anyone listening to do their own research talk to their doctors, because obviously, if you have a mushroom allergy, it may not be for you. But I’m learning, one, that it doesn’t taste like mushrooms. That’s a starter. And then two, there are actual a variety. Like you said, there are ten different types.

Lana:

I mean, there’s lots of different types.

Nicole:

But in this alone, and I never would have even guessed. So tell me a little bit about what you know about and what you’ve studied and this mushroom, because you also have like, a mushroom coffee. So tell us more about all of that.

Lana:

Yeah, I would say so. I don’t do drugs either.

Nicole:

Right, but yet you do mushrooms, you know what I mean?

Lana:

And I’m not knocking anyone who has that lifestyle.

Nicole:

It’s just more of a I don’t know this stuff, you know what I mean? And I personally just don’t engage because, frankly, I am not equipped. Anyone who’s ever met me knows Nicole is not one for the world of substances. She is not capable. I can’t hang yall my own life, and that is about the extent of it. I have a Diet Coke and I will fall out. It’s just me.

But that said, so you’ve got mushrooms in. I think you have a mushroom collagen supplement, a mushroom coffee, and then obviously this amazing, like, midday, early morning focus boost mushroom product. So we can do mushrooms but not be doing mushrooms?

Lana:

Well. It’s kind of like, what is your intention for what you’re doing? Because I think people there are people who use certain substances recreationally, sure. And that’s their lifestyle, but I think a lot of us just want to feel better. And so my journey with mushrooms actually began at the beginning of the new year in December. I decided to do a plant mushroom journey with my healer, and I used Silosibin mushrooms. And basically I did that to just process through some things that I was holding in my body. Right. Because we do hold on to trauma in our bodies.

And having managed a chronic illness for two decades, there was a lot. Right. And my power comes from my gut, like my intuition. You can ask my family, I’m never wrong about whatever it is, nine out of ten times. I know, but it’s also the source of my pain. Right? You hold things also in your gut. And so my intention for the mushroom, my intention for that journey was to process and release some of these wounds, right. That some of these things that I’ve been holding on to so that I can be the best version of me, I can be here to do the work.

Nicole:

That’s a totally different mushroom also, right?

Lana:

Yes. So that’s a psychedelic mushroom.

Nicole:

And you do that in a guided experience with an intentional choice. That’s not something so none of us mamas can accidentally stumble into those types of mushrooms. Because what you’re talking about selling within Browne Wellness and on shelves is different. It’s different from that. And I think that call out is hugely powerful because that’s some of the misinformation that’s out there. When we’re seeing mushrooms show up on shelves, we’re like, oh, well, everyone’s doing these journeys. And that is a very specific sort of prescription for a specific outcome.

Lana:

Exactly. It’s a very, very, very intentional thing. It’s something I’ve prepared, like, weeks to do.

Nicole:

That is totally different. We’re not signing up for that without knowing we’re signing up for that. Tell us about the mushrooms then, that are in Browne Wellness, because it sounds like we can get a lot of the benefits of the world of mushrooms without necessarily taking the journey that we may not be seeking to have.

Lana:

Yes. And I think that people should understand there are two different, like I would say, major two different categories of mushrooms. There are mushrooms that have psychedelic effects and there are mushrooms that have other wellness benefits. And with Browne Wellness, it’s those kinds of mushrooms. Things that help give us energy, things that help our brains to work better, things that allow us to have better performance when we’re working out or post workout.

Nicole:

Without the psychedelic effects. We’re not going to see colors, we’re not going to talk to care bears.

Lana:

And these things come from the ground. Like, these are things that God made.

Nicole:

So they’re in our salads, they’re in our sandwiches or in our cheesesteaks, and we eat these mushrooms. Yeah.

Lana:

And there are a lot of people who are in the mushroom community. They’ve done a lot of Netflix documentaries about, Michael Poland has one about how to change your mind, but that’s about psychedelics.

Nicole: 

Got it. And that’s what we hear the most about. I think one of the things that I love about sort of this conversation we’re having, particularly as brown women, is culturally. I think that something that comes up a lot in the BIPOC community is our use of drugs and how we making sure we’re not abusing them and things like that. And so it’s exciting because I’ve always been someone who’s like, I’m not touching anything, that sort of thing.

And now I’m learning, oh, there’s different categories for different purposes. And some of that languaging isn’t ours and it’s actually been put there to keep us absolutely from engaging in things that can help us.

Lana:

I’m so glad you said that, because I think the policing of black and brown bodies and the way that that has occurred in the United States, and even abroad in some places, has made us want to distance ourselves from things that actually come from within our communities, that help us to heal our bodies and turning us onto Western medicine.

And that has its own financial benefits, right, when we think about the pharmaceutical companies and all of these things. So there’s a lot at play there, like sociopolitically, absolutely. But I think it’s important for us to understand these things come from the ground, right? And we’re all learning more about plant life and things are becoming more plant-based, whether it’s our diet or the supplements.

Nicole:

Oh everywhere! I mean, when KFC came out with plant based nuggets, I was like, okay, so the world is changing, the world has changed, the world has changed and we got to catch up. And what’s interesting is, again, I think a lot of times when these things get that high visibility, they do come from white faces. Frankly, I think just, we share the same heart and we’re just glad people know, you know what I mean?

It’s good that people are learning that there are alternatives or that there are supplements to conventional medicine. I just want people healthy, happy and whole. However, it’s also beneficial to know that you have space within that because you see yourself in it. And there’s something to be said for being able to walk down an aisle, see a brown face that makes me stop and look at the product again and say, oh, there’s a brown face on this. Is this for me? And now I’m thinking, are supplements for me? It’s just a line of thinking that occurs naturally when you see yourself reflected in a product.

So Browne wellness is obviously driven towards the BIPOC community. Granted, there’s supplements, anyone can use supplements, and there’ll be benefits to you, but it is around the BIPOC community. And we actually really could benefit from supplementation because we deal with things like heart disease and we deal with high blood pressure more than any other race. And vitamin D deficiency is more than any other race. I recently got prescribed a vitamin D, prescription level vitamin D. I think it’s D three to take just because it was that deficient. And my doctor told me no supplementation would really have helped you not get here. It’s just very interesting to know that truly supplementation may be something that as brown people and BIPOC people, it’s not optional.

Lana:

No, it’s not optional. And I think in particular for us, but also for everyone in general, because our soil is really depleted. That’s like a whole other conversation.

Nicole:

And our diets, it’s a conversation.

Lana:

So it’s like you really can’t live postmodern life without supplementation because we really aren’t getting as much of it from our food as we used to. And as black and brown people with specific life stressors and our own epigenetics that we are trying to deal with, we really do need to be supplementing. And I think it’s important and in my starting this company is to center us, if not to just encourage us more, to reach in and say, what is it that I need to add to my life, to my wellness landscape, to improve the way my body is functioning?

And I’m now more inclined to do that because I see myself, because one of the most important things I have not yet said is working with a Naturopathic doctor, I healed my body of crohn’s. So today, as of today, I actually don’t have crohn’s.

Nicole:

That’s incredible.

Lana:

And when I had that conversation with my doctor Allan, and he was just like, well, let’s run this test, but I don’t think you need this medicine. I mean, the world stopped.

Nicole:

I’m sure you were like, that is not what I thought you would say out of your mouth.

Lana:

I was like, what is he even saying?

Nicole:

How long were you without serious symptoms on your new regimen before they were, before you were like, let’s see what’s going on here.

Lana:

Well, I didn’t have an active flare, I hadn’t had an active flare up since like 2010. Great, so like 9, 10. And then in terms of working with the Naturopathic doctor, the gut issues resided around 2021. Wow. And so by the time I’m talking to him now, I was talking to him at the beginning of the year and he was like, no, I don’t think you really need this, but let’s do a test to be sure.

Nicole:

Of course, good science, I understand.

Lana:

Let’s confirm. Yeah, but I mean, he didn’t understand it, but he didn’t know the depths of what I had been supplementing with.

Nicole:

Of course, of course.

Lana:

What I had been doing to enhance the way my body is working.

Nicole:

See, and I think that that is the messaging and all of it because again, I am a fan of conventional medicine. I think that there is a place, especially having had a daughter who’s gone through chemotherapy. I never want to be the place that is saying all of this or all of that. What I always seek to do when embracing and sharing new perspectives is letting people know, look into your options. Be empowered to make decisions around your own health. Don’t exclude things that may be unfamiliar because you may find that if anything, if you can come off of two meds and you’re taking four, that is a blessing.

If you can be in a situation where you can take a slower dose of the same med, that is a blessing. If you’re able to find that you can go longer and have more energy during the day or less side effects from your meds, that is a blessing. And a lot of that comes from exploring your own medicine, as you’ve shown us.

Lana:

Absolutely. Because I think I was prepared, like, I was really mentally, emotionally prepared to live with this disease, but it wasn’t enough for me to just not have a flare. I wanted to feel good all the way around.

Nicole:

Which makes sense.

Lana:

I wanted a high functioning body. And so it was like I was willing to take my medicine. Because we’re not saying throw the baby out with the bathroom.

Nicole:

Absolutely.

Lana:

But I was also willing to work and look into other things. And it just so happened that in looking into something else, it meant that I don’t need this anymore.

Nicole:

Amazing. So what does this mean about your quality of life since you’ve started engaging in taking Browne Wellness tools and engaging in learning more about different options? What have you seen? What have you experienced?

Lana:

Like personally…

Nicole:

What you all don’t know is that Lana has a very prominent government position. She also works in media and she also has this incredible company that is growing every single day, literally real time. People are headed over there, they’re following, like, go to Browne Wellness on Instagram. All the details again in the show notes. But I mean, she is doing 500 things. This woman is a mogul. So that said, you’re alive, you’re walking around, and when I tell you, you can feel the peaceful energy in her. Which is why I’m like mushrooms, what? You know what I mean. I’m like coffee what? Tell me, so how has your life shifted? How do you feel?

Lana:

I am the most me I’ve ever been.

Nicole:

If that isn’t a full statement, it’s the truth, though, because people are so quick to say, like, I’m the one who’s always like, I feel peaceful, I feel joy. Isn’t saying that I am me enough?

Lana:

Yeah. It’s changed my whole life. Like, it’s opened up my whole world, like the world of wellness. And just being able to change my mind and to create the life that I know wants me, that I deserve.

Nicole:

That’s so good.

Lana:

And it’s hard to manifest and create things when you don’t feel good in your body.

Nicole:

That is a fact.

Lana:

You can’t. And so it’s like feeling good in my body well has allowed me to now give birth to all of these things.

Nicole:

That’s good and show up completely and see it come to fruition.

Lana:

That’s what embodiment is. We have to put our body into the things that we want to do. But that body we put in has to be a body that feels supported. It has to be a body that’s well, and it’s like wellness is a journey. It’s not like I’m like, oh, everything is amazing.

Nicole:

There’ll be highs and lows. Stress might make something flare up that we got to tone down or whatever. But let’s go into it the best we are the best we can because.

Lana:

Our bodies are always talking to us. And now I’m just really engaged in the conversation. And so my quality of life is better. I mean, I don’t have my days, but my quality of life from when I was in my 20s or even as a child to now, night and day, most me I’ve ever been.

Nicole:

On that note, Lana, you are so incredible, so inspiring. Not only do I enjoy following your journey on Instagram, Lana Jackson is on Instagram. You can follow her there. But also, I am so proud and excited and engaged with Browne Wellness and the opportunity that we all have to live better, happier, more complete lives. So what’s next for Browne Wellness? Where can we find you? Where can we get product? What is available? How do we start our healthy journeys? Where can we learn more?

Lana:

You can learn more by going to Brownewellness.com. You can follow us on Instagram and at BrowneWellness. And I think in terms of what’s coming for us, so many things. We are building a community. The most important thing, I think, is for Brown women to have a place to go to just get advice about it may not be, like, medical information, but you’re like, how do I leverage the supplement? Is it something I open up and put in a smoothie? Is this something that I should take at a certain time of day? Who knows a great doula around here. I think we need a repository. The way that I look to certain other brands that I really admire and respect, like, and it’s a place that you can go and get some reliable advice. And so we’re building that. We’re creating community. We’re planning a wellness retreat that centers us and our…

Nicole:

Oh I love that.

Lana:

Our experiences in wellness where you’ll be able to learn about the newest wellness things that are coming out so that we get access to that stuff first and we get that information from the experts.

Nicole:

So, so good. Y’all follow Browne Wellness. That’s BrowneWellness.com. And stay tuned because Lana Jackson’s here doing big things. I am so grateful that you were here today, that we’re able to have this chat. Thank you so much for being here.

Lana:

Thank you, Nicole. I appreciate you.

Nicole:

Hey friends, it has been a crazy, busy week. If you have been following over on Instagram, you know that I just released my book and it is now available for purchase anywhere that major books are sold Amazon, Barnes and Noble you name it, nothing is missing by Nicole Walters is available for sale. Now, that is the big news of my life in this moment. However, the thing that you may have seen was that I actually, I can feel the emotion of the moment it was just it’s such a crazy impactful thing. But if you watch I actually captured video of me opening up my book and holding the very first copy for the very first time.

Now, to tell you a little bit of backstory of how this moment occurred. It was totally unexpected and I wish I could say it was naturally an automatically a beautiful moment. Like that’s how social work makes you want to think you know, something happened. There’s a little voiceover who it was beautiful. You know my life that is not it. So I was having one of the worst days I’ve had in a really long time.

I woke up and I just recently started a routine with Alex. Alex wakes up every morning and goes to the gym, he actually has a pretty rock solid morning routine. He wakes up, drops the baby off, goes to the gym and then does a protein shake and comes back and hits the studio. I mean, like he’s pretty structured. I’m the girl who loves to sleep in if it is before 11 o’clock, I am already feeling musty and dusty and not wanting to be bothered. But he is just up and at it.

So one of the things that I started recently was going to the gym with him. And I know so many of us say we want to have a great morning routine, or we want to be the type of person who’s able to like get up and get going. And I want you to know that I’m not one of those people. It’s like, the way to be successful is to have this rock solid morning. I’m sure it’s great for the people were able to do it. Listen, when you’re a mom, even if you have a great routine, things can go haywire unexpectedly. So grace, grace, grace, right?

But the reason I started going to the gym with him in the morning was because I really hadn’t I’ve talked about this in a previous episode, I really just wanted to start spending more time with him and my 11 year old, you know, I just wanted to not miss out on some of those morning chats and, you know, get a couple of extra minutes in the morning before the day starts in the car. And I realized that if I joined him in his morning routine, I’d get almost an extra hour between him and my little one, you know, if I just rode along with them to the gym and rode along with them in the car. And frankly, if I take that ride to the gym, then maybe I’ll do something when I get there.

So I kind of released all expectations. When I get to the gym of doing anything, it’s just get on the treadmill and walk. And so what that has led to self to is now I’m an early riser, who’s waking up and going to the gym, I’m walking between two and a half to five miles every single day. And these walks at the gym are slow. Okay, slow, I don’t care how fast to get there just got to get there, you know, and I’m taking my time. And we’re doing about two hours in the gym every morning. So I say all this to say that this was one of those mornings where not only is that not what I wanted to do, but I also woke up feeling just generally like poop.

I woke up with that type of feeling where you’re not just questioning how you feel? Or is it a bad day, but one of those days where you’re doing the overarching questioning, where you’re like, Am I good at what I do? Like, is my business even worth it? Am I showing up as a mom? Am I effective in this world? And especially if you are a creative or an entrepreneur or someone who does the work of creating and putting beautiful things into the world, you probably can relate to what I’m talking about, you probably know exactly the feeling I’m having. It’s that we work in spurts, right.

So we have seasons where we feel really, really effective, where we feel like we are crushing it, where creatively we are putting out our best content and our best work and we’re making beautiful things. And those seasons often seem to coincide with big wins. Maybe we landed a stage or new retailer or we got more sales or something that feels like it is validating and encouraging the work that we do and I guess felt like I was kind of in a slump. I mean, even though I had finally put out into this world, this book that I had created, you know I was feeling kind of in a slump around other areas of my business.

I offer consulting services through my company, Inherit Learning Company for everyday entrepreneurs and I love it. I get to work with people one to one, but I also have a course product, 1K1Day that helps smaller entrepreneurs get started and I help people there too. But I gotta tell you, so much of my time has not been on the consulting side, it has really been built around working on Nicole Walters, being a mom, recovering from divorce, and just putting my efforts in to building the direction of the life that I know that I’m building for the future and more on that later.

But creatively, that means that the place that really pays the bills, I’m not seeing the same type of traction and wins that I’m used to. Let me explain what that means because I think this will be really enlightening for you. So I am so used to over the past 10 years of building this world class, you know, very popular and well spoken about consulting firm hearing wins there. You know, like, oh, my gosh, Nicole, you were featured in Forbes, who are picked, as you know, one of the top 1000 entrepreneurs in the United States or oh my gosh, Nicole, you were, you know, selected for this partnership with this company.

And I was just so used to being someone who was seeing regular traction validation accolades, you know, and growth around this consulting firm that I frankly, have not had that recently. And you may be saying yourself, well, you know, Nicole, what does that mean? Like, how is the business doing? The business is fine, the business still makes money, it’s just not getting that traction, because frankly, I’m not working at doing the press and putting in my effort there. Because I’m building out the Nicole Walters brand, because that is the brand for a lifetime, more to come on that.

So all that being said, I was feeling icky, as if I wasn’t doing well, because I wasn’t seeing rewards and success. And I wasn’t feeling the progress, I suppose would be the best word in areas that were familiar to me. So lesson number one y’all, that came to me as I was walking on this treadmill, you know, leading up to this moment where I held my book for the first time. I realized in that moment, and I was walking, and I was doing some of my devotionals that a lot of us and I’m not the only one friend will beat ourselves up about not feeling growth in a particular area. Because we’re still operating our bodies and our minds on our old trajectory.

You are not failing if you are pursuing a new path in life. But if you’re continuously checking yourself and saying, Man, I don’t feel like I’m making the progress, man, I don’t feel like I’m seeing the numbers. Well, is it that you’re not making the progress or are you actually headed on the right path towards the thing you’re actually supposed to be doing? And not seeing progress during your old life? So here’s what that meant for me.

I haven’t seen progress towards my old goals. And my old goals before were, you know, how many private jet flights can I take? And are there more buildings that I can buy? Are there more investments? And, you know, did I get that big house? Did I get that big car, you know, what’s my family doing? You know, my body still seems to be hardwired, which makes sense. Look, I’m only a couple years out of my previous life of marriage, and, you know, kids and that formal sort of structure of tradition. And I’m a couple years out, I can tell that my body is still hard wired to move that way. Even though I’ve worked really hard to to recognize and embrace and show gratitude and be thankful and fully immersed and present and my new life, which is one where there’s ease, and there’s joy, and there is a complexity and the things I get to do every day. And it’s fulfilling, and it’s wonderful. And I’m present with my children, and my now fiance, and you know, doing all these incredible things, but it’s just so different.

It’s so different from what my body’s been doing for over a decade, that at times, I find myself getting down and feeling grief and feeling beat up, because I’m still remembering the trajectory I used to be on and measuring myself against it. So I want to let you know that if you have had these days where you feel kind of slumped, recognize that whether it’s the pandemic and where you were, or you know, being a toddler mom, and now you’re dealing with kids who go off to school every day, or being someone who was in college. I mean, this is a really real thing when you’re in college, and you’re saying to yourself, well, I have this class, and I have these essays, and I have this final and now you’re just clocking in at the office. So you don’t really have that measurement of a report card to see how you’re doing. So you’re like, how am I doing? You know, like what is going on with my life? I want to let you know that just make sure you’re not measuring your today on yesterday’s trajectory, because that can completely transform how you feel. And that was something that occurred to me while I was walking on this treadmill.

So I get off the treadmill and I’m on my ride back with Alex and I’m explaining this to him where I’m saying, gosh, I didn’t realize that so much of my grief has really been measured in in thinking about my past, you know, and not that there isn’t room to hold space for that mourning. But you know, it’s really important that I am measuring myself on today. And so how am I doing today? And, of course, with his sweet self, he looks at me and he says, Well, you’re doing great, you’re doing great. You’re showing up as a mom, you’re showing up as a fiance, you’re showing up as a business owner, you’re supporting your friends, you know, you’re doing great things, you know, you should feel that way, because that’s what you’re doing. And even better, your future is bright.

And when he said, your future is bright, I have to tell you, and I think some of you may feel this, too, when people give you compliments, or tell you’re doing well or that they’re proud of you particularly around new ventures. And I really, when I say this, I really hope you hear me, whenever you’re doing new ventures, and you know where you’re supposed to go, like, you know what your destination looks like, some of us have these things that have been put inside of us that we know, in a way that is undeniable, where we’re going to be. It does not matter if you are currently working in a cube or if you are currently making a sandwich and cutting the crust off. If you know you are supposed to be a singer on the stage or you know, you are supposed to be an author on a shelf. It’s this thing inside of you that you cannot explain and does not align with where you are presently. But you know, is undeniable.

And even if you’re making that incremental progress towards it, in those moments, even when someone tells you you’re doing great at that incremental progress, you want to look at them and say, Actually, no. You don’t understand I am going to have Grammys. So right now I’m over here cutting sandwiches off of a grilled cheese. And it does not feel like great sir. Like that is the realness of it. And I have to tell you, that is how I felt when I was talking to him. I was kind of like, I appreciate that you’re telling me that my future is bright, and that I’m making progress towards being an author. But the truth is, right now I’m just getting a bagel from Hanks to consume my weight and carbohydrates after this gym sesh. And I really don’t feel so great. And he’s like, I’m telling you, you pay attention. You know, God is sending signs, like the work you’re doing is valid. And you may not feel like you’re making that progress towards that new trajectory. One because you have one foot in your old trajectory but you also may not feel like you’re making that progress, because you haven’t seen and held and experienced manifestations of the work you’re doing now.

And so many of us are accustomed to feeling and touching and experiencing the reality of where we want to go before validating that that reality can actually happen. And it’s just humankind, right, you know, like I can describe an orange to you all day but until you have the real world application of touching an orange, it doesn’t feel as real. That’s like the definition of faith, right? And what sucks about life and work is we have to work on faith, we have to show up in those incremental moments as if we’re already touching the thing we want. But you know, we pray for God to send us little signs along the way, something we can touch, feel, experience, something that feels real to us, to keep us going. So that that way we can we can feel like it’s really going to happen. Because as much as we know that the end is only in our brain. So I’m saying this to him, and I’m saying or he’s saying all this stuff to me. And I’m saying like, you know, okay, I get it, I get it. Because believe it or not y’all is as motivating as I can be as easy as it is to see for other people. Like sometimes I need to push myself, that’s why your partner matters and the people around you matters. But we get home. And I tell them like, look, there’s changes I’m going to make, I’m still showing up in a way in my previous company, and I want to adjust that. And I still think I could show up more here. And I’m gonna pass this and he’s like, Yeah, that’s a good idea to lean into this and do a little more of this. And all that planning is making me feel good, right? About pushing myself towards that goal that I know this, Nicole Walters, the author, Nicole Walters, you know, showing up in this capacity in the world. And I was like, Oh, this feels good. But man, can I just get one tangible thing? No, like, this all feels good. But I just need I just want to know that this makes sense. Because it’s scary. It’s really scary to pursue a path that you only know the destination in your mind and in your heart when you get there. And I just want to get one little road sign that says this path makes sense.

If you saw over on Instagram, if you watch this video, if you haven’t, I’ll have it linked below. But I walked up to my door and I saw this shiny package, you know, this metallic purple, you know, envelope purpley blue envelope, and it was leaned up against my door and it was weird because mail doesn’t come at that hour. And you know, I walk over and then I double back. I don’t actually pick up the packet, I double back, to just walk with Alex back from our driveway. And we walk up and we see it. I pick it up and he’s standing right there kind of fumbling with the keys to open the door and I look at this package. And this part’s not in the video, because we just didn’t know what was happening at that moment. And I look at it and then I look in the corner. And I see that it came from New York City. And I’m like, What on earth is it? Now to be clear, I get sent stuff all the time, by brands, by companies, by friends. Like, I’m really fortunate to get mail when I was. Maybe it’s a manifestation of my youth when I was younger, I was like, I never get mail. Now I get lots of it. And I love to get it too.

I love getting cool new things to try and fun products. And I love working with companies because, you know, as an investor, as someone who is a mom, I just love touching and feeling and finding my favorite things to share with people. And you guys know that here, I only share my favorite. So I wasn’t knew that I had a package leading up on this door. But I look at it. And I see it’s from New York. And something overwhelmed me. You know, as a Christian, I’ll call it the Holy Spirit, you know, but whatever you believe you will understand this feeling. I imagine as someone who hasn’t given birth before, that it’s a lot like looking at your baby for the first time, this thing that you’ve cooked for years and years and years. Or at least that’s what it feels like in, you know, childbirth, and pregnancy.

But this thing that I’d written for years, I was holding physically, for the first time through this package, I can feel it. Y’all, I burst into tears right there on my doorstep. And I say, oh my god, I was like, and Alex looks at me. And he’s like, searching my face to see if I was okay. Like, you know, that thing where people you can see them her scanning the corners of your face. And he’s looking at me, and I’m looking back at him. And all I could eke out are the words. It’s my book. It’s my book. And he looks at me and he’s like, Oh, my God, baby. We gotta get inside.

So like, he opens the door we go in. And I’m like, disoriented, y’all like I’m like, like fumbling over the kitchen island. And he’s like, looking in there to try to find like, some scissors, I could open this thing. And I like go over and grab them. And he’s like, Oh, my God, oh, my God. And all I know is the next thing is he has the phone in my face. You know, I don’t even notice because I’m just like, I gotta get this thing off. And I have to touch it. Like, I have to hold it, you know? And I open it up. And I take it out. And y’all know, even our chats here. I don’t record, they’re not scripted. You know what I mean? Like, this is major. I don’t ever lack the words, right? Like, you could ask my mom, I tell you Daughter, you can talk you can talk and talk and talk your whole life. And I will I hope you they pay you for talking someday. Because if so, you will be millionaire. Well, Mom, it worked out, right? Like I can talk.

When I tell you I was at a loss for words, when you watch this video, choked up, wracked with emotion, completely and utterly at loss. And it was because I was holding the very manifestation of years of work. And beyond that, it was that very tiny little verification that maybe I was headed in the right direction. And I hope that when you watch this video when you see it, that one of the things that occurs to you one of the things that you see when you watch this is that in those incremental moments, when you know it’s coming, and you are struggling to believe it, it may not feel easy when you have clarity.

And I say this because a lot of people are asking me after watching this video, they’ll say how good did that feel Nicole, like how, like I’m so proud of you how amazing is it because they know like if you’ve been following along or if you’ve been listening here, you know, what I’ve been through over this past couple seasons. And a lot of you relate to what I’m talking about, because you know what it is to start over. And you know what it is to build from scratch and you know what it is to struggle in balance and fall out of balance and try to fall in love and manage. It’s a lot. And writing a book sharing the stories is so difficult. In the moment being a mom is full time, dealing with a child in recovery is full time, managing a divorce is full time, having a business and being an author. All these things are full time jobs and to juggle them all has been a task. And to actually feel like I’ve done one thing right to completion is like, unbelievable. But what I can tell you is that everyone says to me, Nicole, it must feel so good to know that this all like came together.

And that’s the thing I want to let you know about the finish line. Because so many of us get so frustrated when pursuing our purpose in the interim, that we think when we get to the finish line, it’s going to feel like all of the things people are asking me and here’s the truth about it. In that moment, what I actually felt was total and complete clarity that what I am doing is the right work that I am headed in the right direction that I am doing work that matters, that, especially as a Christian, right, because I talked about my faith here, and my belief system that I was operating in God’s will, that I was doing what was aligned with the calling of utilizing my gift on this earth towards His purpose.

I felt that without any unwavering question, that I am absolutely using my gift well, and right. Now, here’s something no one knows. And that I’ve never said anywhere before, but I think is really important that I share honestly, because it’s only come to me over the past couple, this is hard couple of days. But this is the first time I felt that. And that feeling, that awareness is embarrassing if you will, and maybe a little scary. Because I have built a business over the past 12 years, thinking I was operating in my purpose. Now I want to be clear, I don’t feel like I was doing anything wrong. But there was a difficulty and a weight that came along with what I’ve built over the past many years to this point. And I talk about it in the book and it’ll make sense when you read the book. Because I go through each of those steps, the behind the scenes stuff you never saw. But there was a serious difficulty during that time. It felt like force, it felt like work. And it was still rewarding work, right? Because I was still working towards something that was getting me the house, the car, the family, the health, the goals, and it still accomplished clearly what God needed it to do in my life.

But I can tell you there is a difference in working with the intentionality of God’s Will versus your own. It’s still hard but it’s right. And it’s still unclear. But you know, you’ll get there, it’s still going to be something that at times you may question, but you will still find a way to do what you need to do when you arrive. And when you arrive. It’s clear. In that moment, when I arrived, it was clear. I don’t know what is going to happen with this book. I’ve spoken to you about it online. If you are part of my email list of my community, I have the link below for that. You know, I have separate conversations with you there. But we talk about this, I talk about how I pray that this will get into as many hands as possible, because the behind the scenes stories, coupled with what you’ve seen in the front of this is going to be transformative, because you will realize that there are intentional steps and an intentional call over your life. But I don’t know how that’s going to happen. I mean, I am talking to anyone who I will talk to. I have been blown away by the support from you and from the community. I mean, some of y’all have literally purchased five books and sent the link to like 20 friends, you know, like I’ve been getting people reaching out saying, come be part of my book club, come to my church, we’ll buy 20 copies. I mean, just incredible things. I’m doing them all, you know, because this is the most important work that I’m supposed to do in this season.

God did not deliver me from some of the suffering I’ve experienced, for me to take that story with me, it’s to help deliver people who are still standing in that suffering. But what I can tell you is this work still feels hard, but it feels clear. And a lot of times we think that if we have clarity, we’re going to have ease and that is not the case. And a lot of times we think that even if we’re doing work that is meaningful, sometimes it’s too hard. I gotta tell you, I was in a marriage that looked very good but it was a lot of work. And it was a lot of work because it wasn’t the right marriage. And it doesn’t mean that you know, people say marriage isn’t easy. That’s true, but it shouldn’t be that hard. And that’s what this season feels like. That’s what that moment felt like when I held this book. I knew without a single moment’s doubt that I was doing the right work in the right place, and that everything I was doing was honoring my gift in the best way.

But do I know how it’s all going to come together? Nope. Do I know what’s going to happen in October when this book is on every single shelf? Nope. Do I feel zero fear or concern or worry? Nope. When I get on this mic or get on stage or do interviews or when I act in my gift or discuss this? Do I suddenly feel completely at ease? Absolutely not. And I say that so that you can understand that if that is any aspect of what you’re feeling, Will I actually see my gift come to fruition? Will I actually get where I’m supposed to be? I want you to know that the fact that you still feel fear about the outcome or about the process or during the process that is normal. But what you should feel is clear.

You should feel clear that what you’re doing is honoring your gift in the best ways and I want to tell you friend, I am clear and I want to let you know that if that is what you feel, then friend, that is enough and that is worth showing up every single day because whatever the destination is, you will get there.

Nicole:

Hey friends. So this chat is actually going to be super fun because if you’ve been keeping up with me on Instagram or on Facebook, honestly anywhere on the internet, or if you get my weekly newsletter, y’all know that I have finally, finally been able to share the details around my upcoming memoir, it’s called Nothing is Missing, which plot twist, surprise, if you’ve been following along here, that is not a shocker to you but it’s called Nothing is Sissing. And it is a memoir about living boldly and transforming your life. And it really does take you on a journey, not just through some of the things that we’ve discussed here, but also a journey through my childhood to explain how I got here and some of the patterns that were repeated and the lessons that I learned from them.

And one of the things that I think is so unique and so special, and so exciting about this book, and the sharing of it all, is that so many memoirs are essentially people just telling you what they’ve done, here’s who I am, here’s where I’m from, here’s what I’ve done, and here’s how it manifested in my life. But you all know who I am, it’s easy enough for me to just tell this story, it’s a lot harder, but way more valuable for me to go into the lessons around what has happened. And that’s part of why this book took me four years to bring to the table because I was living some of those lessons real time.

And I had to get to a place where I was comfortable sharing the stories around them. And for some of the lessons, I had to wait a little bit to see how things manifested and turned out including around this divorce and falling in love again, and building a business and struggling with, you know, my weight and my personal worth and all of these things. And it’s not good enough for me to just tell you what happened, it only becomes valuable if you can take these lessons, pull and extract them from the book and put them into your own life. So I did it. And I say that with a lot of pride. Because one writing a book is so stinking hard, you have to still be able to keep up your daily life. But you also need to be able to look back at your past and not go too deep, right? Because emotional work, you know, you have to be able to look at it and vividly describe some of your most painful moments in ways that can allow people to safely experience them so they don’t have to experience it themselves in their own life.

And I mean, it was truly quite a task but I’m very grateful. And now I’m officially in the season of getting this book out to you. So the book will officially be on shelves in October, I can say the actual date, I have such a habit of just saying the general timeframe! The book will be on shelves October 10, 2023. However, you can pick up your copy right now anywhere major books are sold.

So at Barnes and Noble, you can grab it on Amazon, there is an audio book that will be read by me because who else can do my mom’s accent and all of that is available now in the world. It is called Nothing is Missing by Nicole Walters. And you know, we’re aiming to make it a New York Times bestseller, which means grab a copy for you, grab a copy for a friend, purchase at your local bookstore and small business owners, because that counts for double points in New York Times versus purchasing on Amazon. But anything you do is supportive. Just reach out to me and let me know I’m so grateful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I appreciate your support along this journey.

Now, in sharing the book news, I also thought now it’d be a great time to also tell you a little bit about how this book came to be. Now the reason why I share this story is this isn’t for those of you who solely just want to become authors. I know some of you right now are like well, I’m not interested in writing a book or is this you know about me? I want to talk to you actually about belief. And this is really important because this story is going to make your jaws drop. I quit my job, gosh, it’s been almost 10 years ago now. And when I quit my job it was to start my own consulting firm Inherit Learning Company, still in existence, a multimillion dollar company and doing very well. And we’ve managed to help 10s of 1000s of people through our courses, our books, and private coaching and event experiences. However, what was never on that list for me, was writing a book. I did not want to write a book. I did not fancy myself an author. And it was not something that was high on my list as my means of sharing my story.

Let me tell you why. Some of you guys may relate to this. I know some of you are like no, writing a book is my greatest dream. I get it. The reason why it wasn’t on my list was because it looked too hard. And it is but it’s worthy work, but it looked too hard. I was like, I don’t need to do all this, but I have the gift of gab, you know, I will just go live, I will do content. That way, I’ll have a TV show, these are the things I will do, I do not need to write a book in order to share my story effectively.

Well, you can say what you want to say about what you think and how you will show up in this world, but God will make sure that you will do exactly what he wants to do. And so that being said, it became very clear to me after I really was diving into motherhood, and you know, after experiencing… I visited my parents in Ghana, West Africa, and I realized, you know, something that for some reason, I guess I’d forgotten or it had missed me but books are really special, because they can do something that your phone can’t do. They can go places where there isn’t electricity, they can be read and handed and passed on. They can be loved and nurtured and you can review things over and over again, you can read them with a flashlight in the dark, you can carry them into quiet corners, they are so unique in their ability to transcend your circumstances, and level the playing field around knowledge.

And knowing this and seeing and realizing that there are people and children and women and girls who may never get to watch my TV shows or never get to, you know, subscribe to following me on the internet, but a book, a book can meet them where they are. And there is a humility that comes with recognizing that if you’re truly called to do certain work, that it is really important to recognize that you’ve got to have the humility to to meet people where they are, wherever that may be, even if that’s someplace that you typically wouldn’t go or typically didn’t see yourself going.

And, you know, I could go on all day about this and Christianity and how, you know, so many people say, Oh, well, we aren’t supposed to go there, that space is not for us. But the truth is, how can you serve and shine God’s light if you’re not willing to go certain places? I know some of y’all nodding right now, like, Nicole, we’re not ready for that conversation. But it’s the truth, right? So all that being said, you know, when the call and the feeling of oh my gosh, I have to write this book, just to make sure I have something legacy-wise, that lasts longer than me. And that goes places I cannot go. Then I was like, aw man, how am I going to do this. And this was very early on, I’m telling you 8-10 years ago, and so I’m out there, I’m putting my story out there and social, I have not wavered in that, and I’m getting some great traction. But what’s also happening is that I’m starting to have people reach out to me, production teams, and I’m having publishers and agents and you know, lots of people saying, hey, what exactly is it that you’re doing? And you know, have you thought about this? Or how can we support you in this way?

And so within a short order, I had a publisher say, Hey, we’re based in Washington, DC, this is where the story is gonna get hairy. So if you’re leaning in, and there’s no spicy language, or anything like that, but you know, just pay attention to this one. So a publisher in Washington, DC reaches out to me and says, Hey, Nicole, we would love to talk to you about publishing a book. And this is probably the most serious and honest of all of the reach outs I’ve had, I mean, I had a couple of people reach out about, I’ll support you in self publishing, or I had some people say, I could be like a book coach and help you write a book and all these things. And you know, all of them, I was kind of like, I don’t really know, if I have time for that, or, you know, I’m kind of looking for something a little bit more formal. You know, and I didn’t really give it much stock, but this, this was a publisher who was based in a major, they had a major office presence in Washington, DC, and I was familiar with them, not terribly so, but you know, familiar with them. And they wanted me to come into an office and you know, me coming from corporate anytime you can be clean and present clean. I’m here for it. So I remember and some of you may faintly remember this, because I think I talked about it on social, but it didn’t, it may not have stood out as a big deal. But boy, full circle, 10 years later, is it. I went into this meeting, I remember getting dressed and getting pressed and doing all the things I needed to do.

And I remember sitting down in this meeting, and I’d done some research on the company, and I knew that they’d publish a lot of books from some pretty big names. But I also was a little bit shaken by some of the names that they’d published more on this later. So I go into this meeting, and they’re all very, very kind. You know, Nicole, we love that you’re here. And, you know, we think you’re great. We’ve been following some of your messaging online. And we were wondering whether or not you were thinking about publishing a book and what would that be about and you know, just kind of this sort of conversation. Let us tell you a little bit more about the company and what we do and the type of authors and all that.

So the walls are lined with books that are written by authors who are all well educated, some have a background in academia, media, you know, and are respected in their fields by those that watch and pursue their content. However, I would say that their lifestyles, some of their value systems, some of their morals, are not in alignment with what I would like to advance in this world, or what I would like to see my children grow up with in this world.

And it’s not uniformly I mean, obviously, no two people are exactly alike. But there was definitely a leaning here that I did not feel was in alignment with, you know, who I am. Now it made me examine a couple of things, because the first thing being Hmm, what on earth made them think that I’d be a person that shows like, who did they think I was? And so I started asking some questions related to that. And I realized that they actually hadn’t really consumed too much of my content, but they had an idea of who I was, or who they thought I was. And that was what they were seeking to develop around content related to this book.

So in so many words, they were seeking to have me write a book that they could use and leverage for their own personal value purposes. And basically use and leverage my face, my brand, my, my gifting, frankly, in order to fit in a gap that was currently within the fold of their brand. And now, that’s the thing, I’m not even knocking the hustle, that is a total thing, it’s a total category. And for some people who are seeking fame at any cost, and people who are seeking popularity and the support of an engine and a machine behind them at any cost, it makes a lot of sense. It is a good move. And it makes a lot of sense for them, if they are willing to do it. 

However, I am very okay with receiving what I should have in God’s time and not man’s time. And I’m definitely not willing to compromise myself or lead my name to platforms, where at least especially not knowingly, where I feel like the cost is my legacy. You know, it’s just not worth it to me. There’s no amount of money on this planet, I’d rather be broke. And people reveal themselves in those meetings. So you know, if you listen closely, you know, you will pick up whether or not something is truly for you. So I sat down in that meeting and, you know, I said to them, and I always say this, in almost all of my meetings, I’d be happy to look at a contract. 

Now, I know that considering all the things I just said right now, why would you even want to see a contract from these people in a call, you’re looking around in these walls, what’s going on? Well, tiny business lesson, you always want to see contracts, because it helps, you know, kind of what are they offering people? What is the structure of the contract? What are the deals that they tend to have? I got it for information. It’s really important to me that if you let me into that boardroom, I’m going to gather whatever information I can get, not just for myself, but for my clients.

Also, it’s very beneficial to understand what people think your going rate is. I’ve been underestimated my whole life. People are regularly shocked by the way that I show up and what I accomplish, because they never saw me coming. And that’s perfectly fine because I don’t need people to estimate me correctly in order for me to get where I need to go. But it’s always very helpful to know, okay, based on the impression of what they knew of my brand, what is it that they thought they were working with, because then it allows me to kind of position myself accordingly.

So that said, that contract does arrive after we leave the meeting, and I get all the questions answered. I’m like, Oh, thank you so much for having me and I appreciate you. I’m still gracious because good manners are good manners. And I get back and I get this contract, maybe about a week or two later, and I read it and gosh, I haven’t looked at it in years. I should look at it again, just to see for comparison purposes. This contract is, gosh, I don’t want to say laughable, you know, but because I understand how they positioned it at the time, based on what they saw, and here’s the lesson, not based on where I was going.

When I tell you right now, where you are in your life, it is very possible that you are receiving things that are beneath the calling that you have in your life. You may be in a position right now where when you show up at work, where you are getting the check you’re getting, when you drive the car you have, where you have the opportunities that are showing up, it is almost irritating to your spirit, because you know that that work is beneath the calling that you have over your life.

And I have to tell you that doing that work is not beneath you because sometimes that is the place you are in. But understand that it should not make you question the calling over your life. And you should still act in that same fashion. Act for where you’re going and not for where you are. And that was something that I had on my spirit right away, when I got that contract that contract. I will never forget to this day, my very first book deal contract that I ever received, 10 years ago was for $10,000. It was for $10,000.

Now, let me explain what that means in context. So $10,000 is not a little bit of money to sneeze at. It is you know, I mean, it was a lot more money back in the day, and it was even more money 10 years ago, but $10,000 is, you know, in the book world offensive, is the best way I can describe it. Essentially, what they were saying was, we don’t believe or we’re not sure, if you will sell $10,000 worth of books.

So this is a contract, we’re going to give you as your advance, right, this is what we’re going to give you to write this book. And then whatever you sell above and beyond that $10,000, when we essentially make our money back, you’ll get a percentage of it, we’ll go halfys on it. Now for some authors, there, they love those sorts of deals where they’re able to say, sure, you know, I’ll take a little bit lower advanced, because then we’ll go splitsies because I think I can sell a lot of books and you know, I’ll make more money on the back end. That can make a lot of sense but even then $10,000 is just like, tell me that you think I can’t sell $10,000 when like I can make $10,000 in 10 minutes, is offensive, at the time I was, you know.

And also, you’re telling me that a book that I would write about my life or my business or my story or what have you that my time to in order to write and produce and to market and to promote this book was worth $10,000. Because I would have to do all of those things before I would start getting paid on the back end. And it was not lost on me, based on the value systems and the morals and the work and the type of people that publish there and the people that my book would have been next to and the way those people have shown up in the world, it did not surprise me that that was what they thought of the young black African woman who walked in that room on that day. That did not surprise me.

What surprised me was that they actually thought that I would take it, or that I maybe thought that up myself or that I would be impressed or that I didn’t know better. And it’s part of why it’s such a mission and such an important thing in the work that I do with the clients that I work with. And the people that show up in my fold to be very transparent about money. Sometimes people are offended, or they feel weird about it, you know, when I talk about money and they’re surprised at how confident I am in it. And I’ll say it and I’ve said it often, you know money is an earthly tool to do heavenly good. And you’ll hear me say quite passionately that I talk about these things transparently, because you’re not going to play me or the people behind me and our gifts. Like that’s all I care about. Like you must be paid accordingly so that that way you’re able to advance what you do. Promoting a book is expensive, marketing a book is expensive, and people and creatives around you should be paid properly.

So you’re telling me that I should tell everyone else that they should accept a fraction of what they’re worth to be attached to my project, simply because I wasn’t insistent on being paid properly? Absolutely not. It’s offensive. Furthermore, I know who I am and the quality of what I put out. And this applies to you too, friend. You know, by nature of the fact that we’re even in the same circle, you know, that we hang out here together, I know your character. If someone books you or asks you to show up, whether it is helping plan a baby shower or cook a meal for a potluck, or showing up and doing you know a project or work or an assignment. We don’t do it halfway. We have one level: excellence, we’re going to do our best and if for some reason we fall short and someone says something to us, we’re going to work until it’s right.

So if we already know that we’re going to show up in our complete itself then why should I get a whole complete paycheck for that? Y’all know how I am detour to the on the money part. But that said, I got that contract and I was like, I know. I know good and well that they did not think that this was acceptable, you’ve got to be kidding me. But here’s the thing that I did that I hope that you can learn from too. I didn’t argue with them. I didn’t argue with them. I didn’t negotiate. And I’m a big negotiator, it was so low, that negotiation wasn’t appropriate, because the sheer amount of money that I anticipated would have still been beneath what I deserved, if I worked my way up. So I told them, thank you so much for the opportunity, but I think just isn’t the right time. I’d like to wait. And maybe I’ll circle back to you.

That was 10 years ago.

So much happened in the next six years, five-six years after that time, when I decided to really get back into the book world again. A lot of life happened. A lot of business things happen, a lot of breakthroughs, a lot of success, a lot of hardships. And during that time frame, you know, I started really taking notes. And I said to myself, you know what, I’m going to work so, so hard, so so hard to make sure that when I write this book that I’m ready, that I’m ready to share completely, and that I know what I’m going to write.

And so I got an agent, did the TV show, did the whole process, and we took my book back out, we said hey, Nicole’s got a book, you know, and, and this one, this one’s even better. There’s so much more. It’s such a richer story and you want to talk about transparency, you’ve never seen anything like this. My agent and my team, when they read the proposal for this book, Nothing is Missing, they were floored because they said they have never seen anyone be so vulnerable and open and detailed, particularly with the many layers of trauma that I’ve been through, in addition to being so candid about the redemption and the restoration and the lessons from it.

I’m okay with blowing up my whole life. There are things you’re going to read in that book that you never would have guessed that I’ve been through. And that will be absolutely, just you will be floored, you will be not just awestruck that I’m still here. But you will never believe that I was carrying those things with me to get to this state. And I share it all because I think it’s required in order for us to continue this journey. And needless to say, I sent that proposal out and 26 publishers showed up. All of them saying yes, we’re interested. And one particular publisher, the largest publisher in the world said, we would like to offer you an incredibly large deal. Over 10 times the first deal I ever received, in order for you to take this off the table. Meaning we don’t want everyone else to bid. We don’t want to fight for this anymore. We want it.

I tell you this to say, it’s so easy sometimes for us to become dejected and to put our dream on the table because it didn’t pan out the way we wanted it to. It’s so easy for us to have that knowing within us that we are destined and worthy of the seven figure plus deal that never happens in the market. There’s only a handful of those that happen every single year. And I think the one that was very close to what I received was given to a Supreme Court justice. 

When you know what you are worth, even when you aren’t in that season where other people can see it, it can be so frustrating to continue doing the work. It can be so frustrating to continue showing up, particularly if you’re receiving disrespect while you’re doing it. Because people are disrespecting what they see, not what they know. And I have to tell you, friend, I am so grateful that I waited, that I paid attention intuitively to the many signs that were there. One, that people who are gonna give me what they think I’m worth and they look up here and make decisions behind a lifestyle that is not in alignment with mine, are people that I shouldn’t take very seriously to begin with. That offer had no good written all over it and that was evident when I looked at the shelves in that boardroom where we were discussing the offer to begin with.

What I’ve learned, now that I’m on this end of the book process, where it’s out of my spirit into the world, deals have been written and we are starting a really incredible chapter where we get to now finally talk about what’s needed to be said, and dive into how to apply what’s here, is that sometimes, in certain seasons, you’ve got to say no to what’s in front of you, so you can get and receive and apply and utilize and leverage what you actually deserve. And we often get caught up in saying, oh, say no, the power of No, not everything is for you. But we don’t realize that knowing what to say no to is also important. And it isn’t just about the check or the number. Sometimes it’s about walking into that room and seeing that, look, I know what my name is worth. I don’t care what you say my bank account says, I know what my name is worth. And I am not going to lend it to this organization to use as they will. I refuse.

Your shelves do not deserve to have my name on them. I get sick to my stomach to think that if I had said yes, my name would be next to some of the authors they have. And now I have so much pride in knowing that I had a publishing experience that was not like, some people have very difficult ones. My publisher has been incredible. My editing team has been incredible. My agent, incredible. My manager, incredible when I tell you that the world, God, everything is conspiring to make sure that this story was delivered, told, received and paid for, the way it should be.

And all because I waited.

It is so difficult in the seasons of waiting. When you are the only person who knows what’s to come, and you’ve got nothing to prove it. Nothing in front of you nothing that shows like, look, I swear I’m that person. You know, there’s a story of Jim Carrey, the famous comedian, writing a check to himself for a million dollars when he didn’t have $1 to his name, and telling people he was going to cash that one day and people thought it was just another joke. Well, he cashed that check and then some. Sometimes it’s really hard when you’re the only person who sees all that you’re going to be but God sees you too. And it doesn’t excuse you from acting and behaving and deciding within that belief system. And that includes with, you know, right now I’m doing the book tour, and I’m working on, you know, tightening up my health. Part of tightening up my health is because, you know, I’m doing this book tour, but I’m also planning on growing my family.

So because I’m planning on growing my family, it also means that I have to be, I want to be the healthiest self I can be. And I want to make sure I’m very fit. And I want to make sure my numbers are all right. And thankfully, I had a doctor’s appointment yesterday, everything’s looking great. And, you know, but I’m getting ready, because I’m living in a state of expectancy. 

And when I tell you, it’s crazy, if you were to ask me, you know, my assistant, she talks about this all the time, she’ll ask me things like, Hey, we’re packing up your office, you know, what do we do with these things? And I’m like, we’ll save them in the box for stuff of the Smithsonian. And she’s like, Oh, that’s crazy what is with your weirdly inflated sense of self? And you know, and it’s not that I have, like, I am insecure, I am awkward. I have all the feels. I am nerdy and strange and all that. But what I also believe is how my god is set up, right? There is a calling of my life, and it is undeniable.

I know for a fact that I’m going to leave a legacy. Why? Y’all because my life is hard. It is weird. It is strange. It makes no sense. The stuff that happens to me is unlike any other I am living a movie. So there are times where I look at my own life and I’m like, I would like off this ride. It is crazy, right? There are things you’re like Book Two, okay, I’m telling you get book one, just so that you can understand Book Two, it is that crazy. But what I can tell you is that part of my manifesting and creating some of the crazy, is in therapy you know, the choices I make, right? I gotta you know, stop repeating certain patterns, but also, because I live in a state of expectancy.

I know where I am going because I am determined, without fail to act and believe and behave behind it. And so, friend, this is what I want to tell you today. Where, where have you been denying your calling? Where have you been saying to yourself that you are making decisions for where you are right now and not where you want to go? Where have you been positioning yourself to prevent God from giving you what you need because you aren’t being a good steward of the blessings that you have? What No’s do you need to issue today because frankly, if you say yes to it, it’s actually beneath where you’re supposed to be. I really want you to examine your choices today, not just for the hardship, not just for the difficulty, not just for the stress of the moment that you’re in, but also saying to yourself, where will this position me to receive everything that I know I am going to receive so I can show up the way I’m supposed to show up.

And I want you to do this. And I’m not kidding, don’t just take it as some Oh, Nicole’s just having this casual conversation with me and it’s not that important. I want you to do this because I am telling you, our kids are watching. I am telling you, your legacy is waiting. I am telling you that none of these things are going to happen if you don’t actively step into your life and make it so. I also want to let you know that the thing that I am learning more than ever before, is that the minute that I started to show up, the blessings abound. I cannot keep the goodness away, because I am determined to make sure it happens and to receive it all. And friend, you are so deeply deserving too. So go out and get it.

Nicole:

Hey, friend. Now, there’s this phrase that is used often in my house. And I wonder if you have a version of this in your own life. And the phrase is, “there’s a face, on your face.”

And it’s something that we say to each other, Alex actually started this one, whenever someone is clearly in a mood, like in some sort of funk, or some sort of something, but maybe not expressing or openly communicating. There is a face on your face.

And this is sad, because it basically is saying, hey, look, I’m acknowledging and seeing how you feel, and I’m opening up the door for you to talk to me about it, share about it, because I want to know. And it’s great because I have a partner who makes sure that all the ladies in the household are seen, especially when we have faces on our face.

And it’s great because I often in this season, you know, have a face on my face, just you know, having dealt with divorce having to be responsible for all of the finances, you know, for my babies and caring for them. It’s a lot, you know, so I mean, I can wake up and just be in a mood, or I can get an email and you know, be kinda like what the heck or you know, like crazy things can happen.

And so it’s incredible, because no matter what, I won’t stay in my funk for long, or I won’t be allowed to just not explore it, because I’ve got someone with me who will help support me. But what I wanted to talk about was the sort of misconception that I think a lot of us have, whether we’re in partnerships or not in partnerships, that our partner is going to be responsible for helping us change or grow or be more successful in respective seasons.

And the reason I want to talk about this is twofold. One, if you’re not in a partnership, I have heard from, Alex has a good number of single friends, I don’t know if y’all have noticed, but I feel like guys are staying single longer. But Alex has a good number of single friends. And they’re talking all the time about how they want a woman who’s like independent, right, and not independent, just in the financial way or self care, like their ability to care for themselves way, but independent in terms of being purposeful, and chasing their own goals and having their own skill sets and being driven and ambitious, and, you know, being really motivated to go do things. 

And I’ve asked some of them, you know, like, why, you know, why do you want to be with someone like that? And their answer was always, you know, because I want to make sure I have someone who’s on me too, you know, like, I want to be a power couple, I want to be someone who’s like going for it together. So pin in that thought, hold that right. Because my girlfriends says the same thing. They want a guy who’s got it all together, who is motivated, who is able to be a go-getter, who is driven, ambitious, and hitting their marks, you know, and that’s wonderful. And as a female, I can understand that a little bit more. Because I want that and seek that as well, especially in my partnership.

And I’ve also experienced all sides of that in the various partnerships I’ve had, where I know what it’s like to be with someone who lacks motivation, isn’t driven and, you know, doesn’t act purposefully and, you know, is very satisfied with mediocrity. And I know what it’s like to be with someone who is super driven and almost too much so you know, and you know, almost to the point of being selfish. And I also know what it’s like to be in a partnership with someone who is, you know, very balanced in their drive and generous and thoughtful and considerate and so I really know the full range.

So I understand why each of us says that. Now, what I’m realizing, you know, as I’ve explored sort of these varying relationships, and partly because I was listening to a sermon recently by TD Jakes, you know, about what it looks like to go through various seasons, that are usually started with some version of loss but then, you know, we end up having to work and grow and get strong in between those versions as we lead towards the thing that we’re you know, being transformed for. Is that, I think, and again, you can tell them exploring this thought, but feel free to you know, hit me up on Instagram and tell me if I’m wrong, y’all, you can you can shout at me if you think I’m wrong, I have no problem getting to my DMs.

But what I’ve noticed is that there is so much conversation in our society, about an expectation for our partner to carry some level of help or support or motivation or partnership with us in accomplishing our goals. So many of us are seeking out as a primary attribute in our partner, someone who will help us get where we want to be. And what I’m learning and I don’t know if it’s just because I’m getting older or if it’s the specific seasons that I’ve been in, is that yes, you absolutely, 100% need to be with someone who has a lifestyle and a being and a sense of self that is supportive and in alignment with the goals you want to have.

Let me clarify, if you have a goal to be a weightlifter fitness guru who counts their macros and only eats boiled chicken and rice, it probably isn’t to your benefit to be with a pastry chef. Right? You know, on a core level, if you have very specific goals, you definitely want to be with someone who is in alignment with those goals and even better, and this is something that I think is, you know, only trauma can induce, you know, and only good therapy and prayer can get you out of, and I say that from personal experience, you know, but you definitely don’t want a partner who’s going to pull you down from those goals. If that pastry chef is baking cakes every day, you know that that doesn’t help at all, you know, it’s one thing for them to work at the bakery. And the two of you be unaligned, you know, and it’s another for them to work from home, you know, and have you be their primary taste tester. Okay, you know what, exactly what I mean by that.

But what I’m realizing is that, and I say this, because it’s a realization for me, too. I mean, I’m not kidding today I was on the treadmill listening to TD Jakes. And I realized when he said, I think one of the phrases he said was something about, you’re going to need to recognize that even though you’re not alone, because God is with you. Because y’all know I’m a God girl, I’m a believer. But even though God is with you, some of these things you’re meant to do alone.

Now, I get criticism, you know, on the internet, and, you know, I’m aware of it, you know, people thinking that I got into my relationship too soon, or just people being sad about my divorce or, you know, curious about how I have a new partner. And granted, I’m years into, you know, my relationship being over with my ex. And honestly, even though we were married, if you really go back and count, it was over for longer than I thought, and I’m actually years into my partnership with Alex.

But what’s interesting is that prior to really engaging in my partnership, I had a season of singleness, a season of aloneness, a season of really trying to figure out what I liked, and where I stood, and who I was, and what I needed and what I did need, as well as teaching myself and reteaching myself, how to live by myself. What does it look like to not be solely dedicated to a partnership? And what does it look like to balance out where you put your efforts and your times between your children and yourself and your business?

And, and I did it badly, you know, I did it badly, because for over a decade, I truly did live for the people in my household. And, you know, when that well of fuel was empty, you know, I started having health problems. And if you go back and listen to episode one and two, and I think three of this season, of season three, of the podcast, you’ll hear, you know, some of the health outcomes and marital outcomes and relationship outcomes that kind of happened, you know, after a decade of sort of giving of oneself without really thinking about, you know, what about balance and what I needed, and just not realistic.

But once I finally entered a partnership, and I’m going to be so transparent about this, because I think that I’d be lying entirely if I didn’t, and then it’s just not even fair to you or to myself. But when I first got into my partnership, I really think I relied on Alex for more than I should have. And it’s not because I wasn’t okay being alone. But it was mostly because I was just so happy to have partnership, in the beginning. And happiness meaning I loved him, like oh, and I love him. You know, I mean, when I tell you, the goodness of this man, he’s such a good person, like just independent of this relationship. He is like, for every good thing I’ve done in this world, God has put together a man and given that all back to me. I mean, every good thing, like from letting someone cut in on the freeway to handing out $1 to an unhoused person. Like every single bit of that has been returned to me and this man and my children like I am truly blessed.

But I definitely was just grateful for companionship, I didn’t realize that. Yes, I was comfortable being alone, but I really did not enjoy being lonely. And so when I met him in partnership, there was so much joy from being able to have someone to just sit on a couch with, you know, because I’m a homebody and I love being a wife, you know, and I love the care, you know, of I’m just naturally maternal in so many ways.

And that’s something that can, you know, readily be taken advantage of in the wrong relationship. I’m very blessed to be in the right one, but because I have this incredible relationship with him. I was so excited to not be lonely, even though I was okay being alone. And so it was great, because I also started benefiting from things that come with partnership where if I was having a rough day, I had this person who would pick me up. If I was having a day where I need a little bit of motivation, he surely would, you know, come with a little bit of that fire. And I did the same for him and do the same for him but it was just really nice to know that, you know, if we wanted a gym day, we could go together. If we wanted to meal prep, we were meal prepping together.

I mean, it was this thing that I was exploring that I never had in my life. I have never had anyone who would go at it with me and I talked about this in my book, coming this fall, and that if you do a little digging, you can find online now. But I talked about this in my book. Growing up, I had parents who would mock me for my weight, and chastise me for being overweight and heavy. And I don’t say these things with the same anger, I know that some people can relate to this, because you maybe you grew up culturally, where your parents knew that they were doing this where it was deeply harmful, it does not excuse that it wasn’t okay.

But in my parents culture, I mean, literally, that’s just how they talk. Like, it’s just like, oh, yeah, getting fat, you know, like, it’s not even meant to be harmful. It’s more like a statement of fact, but they aren’t aware that you know, in different cultures and different backgrounds, that it actually has a different impact. So, you know, I had parents who would, you know, mock me for my weight, but then, you know, as I would take strides to try to work on it, you know, and I say this, like, as a young girl, you know, like, 15, 16, as I’ve been trying to work out or whatever, or watch my diet, they would, then like order a pizza. Just like, do these little things, you know, and I talk about in the book, the root cause of that, and the outcome. And, you know, just awakening to the awareness of what it looks like to have someone in your life that is, in an underhanded way, undercutting your efforts.

The way I described in my book is, you know, you spend every morning, knitting a blanket, only to wake up and find out that someone has unraveled it, you know, while you sleep. When you wake up to that and you wake up to how you replicate those patterns and all of your relationships, dating, friendship, marriages, you know, that you are with people who are unraveling your your work, you realize, you know, that you’ve got major change to make.

But having always had people like that in my life, it was so refreshing. And delightful, it is so refreshing and delightful to have someone who is truly committed to seeing me at my best, whatever that may be. And, and also is aware that, because of my nature, and who I am, me at my best is us at our best. And it’s just a real blessing. And I never knew it was possible. And it was so exciting. When I first got into it these first couple of months, between you know, the the love, the lust, the newness, the, you know, all of that, you know, to also have this thing that I just didn’t even know what it was, you know, but it was just a level of support I’ve never seen before. 

But after the years, you know, after time has passed, you know, and you start getting used to having that type of support, the thing that I want to talk to you about and that I hope that you understand, and what I’m learning now is that there are some times that you need to embrace aloneness within your relationship. And this is a trip for me, when I tell you my brain is like, I’ve been chewing on this today. And it came up because last night Alex got back from a late gig that he was working at and when he got home, you know, one of the things I’ve noticed with him as he always needs a couple of minutes to unwind. And part of that is because as a musician, you know, some of his work is just producer work. So he’s in the studio. So when he gets home, he’s ready to engage, because he’s been, you know, working, kind of staring at a screen, but when he is performing on a stage in front of 10s of 1000s of people or, you know, working out a private performance, you know, and it’s loud and noisy, when he gets home he wants to zone out as he describes it, you know, he’s like, I just need a minute to zone out.

He needs his aloneness in order to recharge to be his best self again. And that happened yesterday, what sucked was it was a disconnect, because I was excited for him to come home and ready to engage with him. And he was ready to chill out. And so we had to, like talk about that, you know, so that way, you know, I just found something else to do while he did that, and then we kind of came back. But that being said, I think I’m in a place right now, where I have very specific goals that I want to attain. I want my book to be a wild success. Now, the way that I define that is not based on money, and it’s not based on books sold. I want people to read it. And I want them when they come up to me to be able to say this sentence was helpful, or this gave me freedom. Or I never knew this about myself, but it caused me to explore this thing and I learned this. This made me a better parent, this made me a better person. And, and in order for that to happen, I’ve got to engage in the process of getting my books into hand, but encouraging the turning of pages in a whole new way.

And I’m working on that, but it makes me scared. You know. And I also know that right now in the chapter I’m in, I need to generate revenue. And generating revenue, doesn’t mean that I don’t already have systems in place, I make a ton of money, but I also spend a ton of money, particularly because of the sort of post-divorce crazy world, you know, where you are the breadwinner for everyone, I’ve literally closed down one life, reestablish another one.

And then I also have growing kids, I mean, I’ve got a 24 year old who is in recovery and not 100% supporting herself. I have a 21 year old who’s in college and doing excellently, but needs help in this sort of launching chapter. And I’ve got an 11 year old who, you know, is shifting from some of those childlike expenses to the type of expenses where it supports her development. You know, she’s got to discover what sport she likes, and what music she likes because it’s all going to lead to a greater purpose.

She’s in this sort of developmental phase in her life that I know is going to dictate her future. And I don’t want to skimp on any expense. And I think a lot of you can relate to this, it isn’t a lack situation, it’s wanting to create an environment of abundance, you know, for my babies, and when you know you’re doing it yourself, I always have been doing it myself, but when you know that you’re doing yourself and the needs are shifting, I just really want to be ready for that, you know, so I’ve just recognized that there are all these places that are requiring me to give a surge of energy and a surge of fire to it because I want to grow. And I realized that for the past couple months, I’ve been looking to my partner to help me there.

I’ve been looking to my partner to support me in some ways, and I don’t mean, support me financially, or to cheer me on per se. But I guess I always looked at it as a we’re going for it together thing because that was always the dream because it was something that was so missing from my past, you know that “oh my gosh, if I just got this partner, if I just got someone like this, or with these attributes, you know, I’m really going to take off.” Well, you know, friends, I have it, I have that, I have that and more. Alex is a dreamboat. I mean there are things manifested in him that I didn’t even know to pray for. God went above and beyond.

And yet, I know for a fact that there is growth that I need to make alone in order to even benefit from the bonus blessing of partnership. And that is the thing that I want to offer you an exploration with this chat. Are there things you need to do alone, to make sure that you could even really benefit from the blessing of the partnership you have or the partnership you want? And I don’t mean in the cheesy way where it’s like girl, get yourself ready so that when your husband comes you’re ready to be a wife, I don’t even mean that.

I mean, if the thing that you need to get better at is managing your time. I don’t mean like get your body right. You know, managing your time. You know, like waking up with more intentionality. For me, it’s figuring out with clarity what do I want this next chapter of my life to look like? Like real clarity because I’ve been so fixated and downright nervous and scared about the conversations that we are going to have once this book is in your hand. I’m not kidding, y’all. 

We are going to be having some tough talks, because I’m talking about things in this book that you did not know about. Pregnancy loss, decisions around my girls, relationships with their mother, you know, I’m talking about things I don’t go into my marriage too, too much in this book. But I think sometimes there’s a lot said by what’s not said, you know, that I’m going to have to answer for, you know, in our conversations where you’re going to say, Nicole, why did you do this? Why didn’t you do this? Why did you allow this, you know, and in preparing myself for these conversations and being fixated on the outcome, you know, of them, knowing that, I’m gonna have them with you all. I’m going to have them here, I’m gonna have them in person, I’m going to have them in our book signings, I mean, we’re going to have these chats because they’re required for all of us to collectively move forward.

There’s a reason why God gives some of us suffering, and it’s so that we can help deliver others from it and I’m not as prepared for that as I’d like to be. But the preparation for that moment, is not going to be done in collaboration with my partner. The preparation for that does not exist outside of self. The preparation for the next big thing starts with me. And it starts with you.

If you want to have that big business, if you want to embrace entrepreneurship, if you want to kick those extra pounds, if you want to get that promotion, if you want to become a better mom, if you want to become a better wife, if you want to become a better Christian, if you want to be a better friend, those things don’t exactly exist, the answers to that aren’t necessarily external. You may want to look and say, hey, you know, what content do I need to be consuming?

One of the phrases that I often tell my clients, when I meet with them one to one is going back to basics. We will often, whenever we feel like we’ve got this big, outlandish new thing that we need to do, come up with these crazy overwhelming, you know, possibilities on how to get it done. We will say, well, I really need to set up this funnel, or I need to get this mentorship or I really need to apply for this thing. And we kind of make the things so big that we never do the dang thing. Because it’s out there, right? Well, if I can just book this many stages, or, you know, what I really need to do is I need to be doing this thing like two to three times a week.

Well listen, when I tell you in order for you to get where you are today, right, which may be you know, a mom with a couple babies or have your home or the job you have or moving to a new city or the new partnership or heck for me, you know, a divorce and, you know, a second marriage with you know, babies and you know, all of that for me to get to where I am, you know, or where I want to be, that direction, I had to do things already to make these sorts of big changes.

And when I tell you, sometimes it’s going back to basics. What did I used to do before that I am not doing now that got me where I needed to go because there was a season where you were alone in that doing and sometimes returning to that same mindset of being alone in the doing without sacrificing your dedication to your partnership, or your desire for one, is going to be the thing that actually propels you forward.

So I say all of this, let you know, if you find yourself resenting this season of solitude, if you find yourself reaching for your partner, rather than reaching within, or you feel like there’s something missing, that’s keeping you from actually getting to where you want to be, I want to let you know that if you look inside, you’ll notice that nothing is missing. If you look inside, and you realize that maybe there’s a couple things that you can learn or grow from or do that will help you actually accomplish where you want to go and you focus on that. Because that’s what I’m doing. You know, I’m focusing on my dedication, I’m focusing on my discipline, you know, I’m focusing on hitting those basic tasks in a consistent way. Content creation, email, sending out pitches, phone calls, lunches, meetings, relationship building, the things that I know, not only nurture my business and my life and my family, but also nurture my soul. I feel good when I do them and I feel good when I engage with people this way.

Ultimately the growth that I receive will benefit my partnership, my family and in turn the world. And so I want you to know that as you watch every single step that I’m taking friend, and as I share this journey with you, I want you to know that I invite you to do it with me. And know that while we may be doing this part together, the independent work we’re doing alone is really going to make us better in the long run. So friend, the book is coming. I’m scared. The changes are being made. I’m scared. But I want you to know it’s worthy work.

And as we show up every single day, not looking to our left, not looking to our right because no one’s coming to save us, I want you to know that nothing is missing.

Nicole:

Hey friends, so I have been chatting with you about starting over and about new relationships and parenting and all sorts of crazy things that are happening in my life.

But I wanted to talk to you about sort of a day to day thing that I’m dealing with and this actually came up this morning. I have really been working hard on what building my next chapter looks like and motivating myself. And I know this is something that we’re all working on because honestly, it’s one of the number one thing is that slides into my DMs.

Everyone is always asking me, Nicole, how do I get my old fire back? Nicole, how do I find my motivation? Or, you know, life has happened and I feel derailed? How do I get back to where I need to be? And what’s interesting is that, oftentimes I’m asked this because people look at me and they say, Nicole, you always have so much going on. You’re working hard, you’re managing the kids, you’ve built this business, you are on TV, you’re on stages, you’re doing all these things.

And I just want to let you know that even with all those things going on, it’s almost like the more driven you are, the more accomplished you are, the more you are saying to yourself, I’m not doing enough. And this may not apply to everyone. I know there are lots of people out there who have grown or matured or in some special brand of therapy that has them saying no, this isn’t me, right? Like I’m good. I know, I understand my balance. I give myself grace, like trust, I follow those people on social media that are constantly like, No, I understand soft life, and I have my meditative series. I’m not those people, my baseline is anxious, okay, and I am constantly working on it.

But the truth is, I’m always giving myself a hard time about excellence, which is why you hear me talk so much about grace, half of the chats that we have here are for me, there’s so that I can listen back and say, girl, remember the time you gave that wise advice to your friends about chilling out and granting grace, take it for yourself.

So I wanted to talk to you about that. I get triggered by social media. And I think you do too. Where you see something that is posted. And it’ll either be a friend who’s like doing really, really well. And I’m blessed to have the type of friends that win Emmys and Grammys and Oscars, and it’s all really incredible to have these types of people in my life. But boy, is it triggering when you are cleaning up poop and diapers and when you are grocery shopping. And when you’re cleaning melted crayon out of the dryer, that was me yesterday. You know, sometimes you just look at your life, and you’re just kind of like, Am I doing all the things that I’m supposed to be doing? Because it really feels like, you know, my peers who are in the same age range, or we started in the same place or just doing such different things.

And, you know, I woke up this morning and I said to myself, well, one thing I do know, and I hope you know this about yourself too, is that nothing is missing. Right? We all have the ability somewhere inside of us to do the things that we are called to do and what we are called to do may not be like for me, I have the ability inside myself to you know, become a very impactful, worldwide global, awesome person, right? Like, I know I’ve got that in me. But I don’t necessarily have it in me to be a ballerina dancer, but that’s okay, because I was not called to do that. Okay, these thighs say that all day.

Okay, so so we all have what’s in us to be to do what we’re called to do. And I woke up this morning, and I’m not kidding. The first thing I said to myself was Nicole, you have been so stressed about all the things and this is real and I’m going to keep it super candid. With a divorce, like they’re expensive, you know, and I’m trying not to get too emotional here but like they’re costly, you know, the expenses of meaning and I’m the breadwinner and always have been and the cost of maintaining two homes and two lives and you know, taking care of your kids 100% by yourself. And that includes not just the day to day for your children, like your meals and their food and things like that, but paying for things like child care and summer camps and clothing on their backs.

And in a divorce situation, you know, you’re also maintaining your old life if you’re the breadwinner. So, you know, I am the only person who contributes to taking care of multiple people, and it’s stressful and I worry sometimes if it’s all going to be enough, and in my lowest self, you know, in the moments where I am the least strong and the least reflective of, you know, my best thinking, I worry that it just won’t be enough, you know, I worry that I’m not going to get to the next place, or I’m worried that I am going to keep chasing, and then I will lack, you know, in some way, shape or form.

But in my best self, you know, the person who woke up this morning, thankfully, you know, I really ask myself, am I doing everything I can to maximize what I do have? Because there’s so much I’m not in control of. And that’s what I wanted to say to you today. And that’s where I really wanted us to connect today.

Instead of focusing on maybe not having that Grammy or you know, not getting that new house or whatever big milestone, having that kid, whatever big milestone it feels like your friend or the person you admire, or you know, whoever your peer is has hit. Have you thought about asking yourself, What have you done today, in a small, tiny moment  to really get yourself to where you want to be. And I don’t mean this in a big goal setting way. I’m talking about getting even more micro about it. And before we can always talk about and I talked about this in my keynote speech before we can talk about the tiny things that we need to do to get to where we want to be. I want to talk about something that I had to explore this morning. In a really intentional way. I was laying in bed and I want to tell you about my morning routine. So I’m really blessed to have a partner in Alex my Misterfella, if you don’t know who he is, you can actually listen to I think two episodes ago, we did a live couples therapy. But I talked about him throughout the season. He’s actually been on our few episodes. And in our morning routine, when I tell you this guy is like super stepdad, he is all in. He is amazing.

So he wakes up, and he handles school drop off, and I have the option every morning to sleep in. So her wake up hill, the baby gets herself up, I call her the baby because she’s forever my baby but she is definitely almost 12. So she wakes up, kind of does her morning routine, gets herself going, and then is ready to go to school. And so he’ll go ahead and drop her off at school and then he’ll go swing by the gym, get in a good workout. Usually he’ll be gone for about 90 minutes and then come back. And then we’ll either have breakfast together or, you know, start our respective days.

Now the reason why our routine looks like this is because I love a sleep in. And if there’s anything that anyone knows about me it is that if I can sleep in until 11 o’clock, I will. I love a sleep in. I can stay up until maybe like 10, 11, but I just I love sleeping. It’s just like, I love to wake up naturally, you know, when I’ve fully felt like I’ve gotten my entire rest. And what’s great is I have a partner who’s very supportive of that. But the truth is, I really woke up this morning, you know, when I heard him get up and kind of do his thing. And I’ll be even more transparent about everything that happened this morning.

He set an alarm, you know, to wake up at our usual time to get the baby up, and get her to school. And then he looked at his alarm, and he added an extra three minutes. And I looked at it and I was like, you know, three minutes because like I woke up when he woke up but not all the way because I was like I’m just gonna keep sleeping. And he added an extra three minutes and I kind of looked at him and he looks at me and he smiles. And then he holds me you know, and I realized he added an extra three minutes just to cuddle, just to cuddle for a few minutes because he was going to leave me there and then he was going to go about his day so it was like kind of you know, we’re up and I’m just gonna get in a couple more hugs before I go.

And it was super sweet you know, it’s one of its I’m really blessed to have a million of those moments you know throughout my day with him where I’m so grateful to have a partner who is so intentional about time with me but after you know that three minute alarm went off and he got up and you know started putting on his gym clothes and you know went out and I heard him saying to you know ally Hey kid, you ready for the day? This is going to be your best week. You know, like what do you have for breakfast like I hear all this you know happening. I’m laying in the bed. And I want to be clear it wasn’t guilt and I want all you mamas out there and you know, anyone out there who hears your partner kind of going off on their day, maybe they’re an early riser, maybe they’re a go getter, you know, and you are laying there and taking your moment, I do not want you to feel guilty about that, even, especially if you’re listening to this while taking your moment, you know, but I do want to let you know where I was today.

I’ve done this for months, for months, you know, he’s been the point person in the morning with helping, you know, with Ally and I often will have late nights working. So that’s very kind of him. 

But today, I just felt like, I don’t want to waste any time. And the way that I can explain that to you, and I hope you can understand is that I don’t want to go to the gym with him. Right? Like he is like, hardcore work or out or he’s like, you know, his whole family has been fit. Like, it’s our whole thing. And I just, it’s just not my ministry, I like going to the gym. No, that’s still a lie. That whole sentence doesn’t make sense. I understand the merits of working out, right. And I appreciate getting my fitness in in different ways. I’m an activity girl, you know, not a gym girl. But the thing that struck me that morning when I was laying there, when he put those extra three minutes on the clock, just to get three more minutes with me, was what would I be willing to do to just get a few more minutes with my family? And what excuses am I making that are not reasons, but are actual excuses, that are keeping me away from getting in all the time that I have because life is fleeting?

And it was in that moment that I said, you know, where can I fit in more time? After spending a decade in a relationship that was one where it felt highly functional, but it didn’t feel fruitful. And a relationship where it definitely felt like a partnership. Where it was about getting things done as much as possible, you know, and it only really wasn’t working its best when the partnership was deeply out of sync, you know, and the weight did not feel evenly distributed. But now I’m in this thing where I’m with someone where I want to see them all the time. And I have this kid who’s growing up in my home. And for those of you who’ve seen glimpses of Ally on Instagram, she’s just this incredible girl, like I can tell that I’m in this really sweet window before she starts hating me, you know, called teenager, you know, and I, I just don’t want to waste any time.

And I know that we use the word waste, and sometimes that adds pressure and guilt, you know, and removes grace. But when I say waste, I mean, how much effort does it really take me to just get up when everyone else is already up to just get in a little of that extra time. And what does that mean in the tiny way for a small thing I can do towards the things I can control to make me better and make my life better. And it was then that I got up and you know, I kind of dug through in the dark with my eyes have closed and I grabbed out some gym clothes, and I put them on and I said to myself, you know what, every day that he goes to the gym, I’m gonna go with him and not because we’re going to work out together trust, we will not be working out together, I will be walking on my treadmill listening to my sermons, my podcasts, and you know, my content, that’s what I will be doing. Walking as slowly as I want to on that treadmill, you know, just because I’m there, you know.

But what I really want is I want the drive to school with him and my baby. And even if that’s only 10 minutes, that’s what I want, you know, and that I want that drive to the gym with him, you know, and even if that’s only 10 minutes, you know, I want that. And the thing that occurred to me was that at the end of that week, I’m getting an extra hour of time with my baby, I’m getting an extra hour you know, with Alex, I’m getting an extra I think two if you consider the round trip and over the month that’s almost an extra half day. And over the years, you know, that’s gonna be weeks. And I just couldn’t imagine looking back at this time and not saying to myself that I was grateful for that.

And so where this translates into everything that I’m trying to do right now is that I do feel a lot of fear, you know, about the future. I get fearful about whether or not my book is going to be really successful. I poured my heart into writing this book that is coming out in October. And it’ll be available for pre-sale very soon. If you do some digging, you probably can find it now, you know, but in this book, I’m revealing things about myself, and about my family, and about our journey that I’ve never discussed anywhere. And I’m very aware that, you know, people write reviews on Amazon, and they can be scathing, you know, and I’m aware that people can absolutely love what you do, and never pick up a copy of your book.

And I’m more worried about people not actually reading the book than just buying it, you know, because I’ve spent four years meticulously looking back at every moment, every journey, every step that I’ve taken, and trying to extract the lessons in the hardship, so that other people don’t have to do it. And I think that if you listen to our chats here, and you’ve ever watched my content before, and you’ve ever said to yourself, gosh, we have a lot of similarities or, you know, man, Nicole’s really like me here, I want you to understand that I love that we have similarities in the way we eat cheese and shop at Target, you know, but I don’t want us to have similarities and our pain and our hardship, if I’ve gone through it, you don’t have to. And that’s what this book is about. But in writing all this, it’s so vulnerable. And I put myself out there and it’s scary.

It’s really, really scary. And when I get scared, and maybe you’re like this, too, when I get fearful, I make excuses. And those excuses are things like I’m tired, and I deserve to sleep in and I need to stay in bed. And you know, it’s okay, because I deserve help. And you know, someone should take care of these things. And I want to let you know that in the languaging, and you’ve heard me talk about it, like you deserve this break, and you deserve the ease and you deserve all of that. But I really want you to examine if the reason why you’re taking these breaks and taking this time if it’s an excuse, or a reason. And I mean, I’m telling you this comes up all the time people ask me all the time about this Nicolle, like, how do I know if I’m making an excuse to not do the work? Or how do I know if it’s with good reason. And I want to tell you the primary difference that I’ve learned and how it applies to my life. When you’re making an excuse, you’re just stating the problem, you’re stating your involvement, you might even be stating like what you’re doing wrong and doing that really transparently. But you’re not stating any action item to fix it. A reason is, hey, this thing has occurred. But it’s usually followed with, this is what I did to repair it to fix it or to make sure it didn’t occur again. And I really want to eliminate excuses, you know, I really want to eliminate saying to myself, it’s okay for me to miss out on time, or to miss out on money, you know, or to miss out on an opportunity or to miss out on growth.

Because I’m just too scared, or I’m too tired, or I’m too lazy, or I’m too distracted. I just want to have reasons. And so there was a reason for why I used to sleep all the time but you know, the reason just isn’t good enough. And there’s an excuse for why I’m scared to not put out my book and I’m worried about what people will say and I’m nervous about the outcome. I can’t tell you like the fear the way that I lose sleep over how scared I am about the response to this book, only because it’s just it truly is so deeply vulnerable. There’s things in there, I have never told a soul. My editor and the few people who have had the opportunity to read it, my sister and people close to me, have just been blown away by one, what I’ve managed to build and what I’ve done, you know, with my family and myself, despite some of the things I’ve had to carry, but two, just like chat with you all here, you know just how important it is to be transparent about some of these things. So that when we’re trying to make decisions ourselves, we’re also being inspired and making decisions by listening to the people that we should be listening to.

And it’s scary to think that maybe after reading this book, you may think I’m not someone you should listen to anymore. Because I enjoy our relationship, but that’s not a good reason. It’s a heck of an excuse. And so I’m putting out the book anyways, or I’ve written and put out the book, you know, and it’ll be in your hands and it’ll be something you read and you know, I’m going to be committing everything I can. There’s something really special about the book writing process where you put all this effort at the forefront and it’s very different from social media where everything’s kind of instantaneous, right? You do a post and within seconds you can find out if people like it or if they have thoughts on it or if they think it’s funny. Same thing with a text message, you put out your thoughts, you wait for a response to even get those three lovely dots that let you know one is on the way.

But when you’re writing a book, you will spend years of your life being the most vulnerable and raw and at times reckless. When I tell you, I’ve gone back and edited so many times, because there are just things there where I’m like, you know, in the season I was in that languaging felt appropriate. But you know, now that I’ve evolved, that’s not what needs to come out. And you do all of this on the forefront, not knowing what the outcome will be. And then the time comes where the outcome shows up, and it’s great or it’s nothing, you know, or it’s completely not what you expect, or it’s exactly what you expect, but maybe you aren’t ready for.

I mean, you truly just do not know what is going to happen. And I wish I could say that it was more formulaic. You know, there are some things and there are some ways that people do make it pretty formulaic where it’s like, oh, well, if you write this thing, then you’ll get this. But I didn’t write an easy book, I could have written a business book that would have said, first do this and make your money this and do this. But everybody does that, you know, and I’m not too scared to tell the truth. That’s a lie. That’s a lie. I am terrified about telling the truth. That is the truth.

But I’m not too scared to do it afraid. And that’s because I really want to eliminate excuses for my life. And so friend, when I woke up today, and I heard my family kind of moving forward and doing things and going through this routine, I realized that it was something I wanted to be a part of, and that there weren’t enough, you know, excuses, you know, or reasons why I shouldn’t be and if the one thing that I know that I want to capture in this season of my life, which you know, it’d be nice to be a New York Times bestseller, and it’d be nice to exceed my financial goals and really build an inheritance and a legacy for my kids. Because hey, nobody else coming to save them but Mama, you know, and really started a chapter with my partner, you know, Alex, with more babies, and, you know, just doing all these incredible things. I gotta be prepared to tackle in a daily, momentary even, actionable way, the decisions that will propel me forward.

And so I say to your friend, even though we’ve talked about goals, we talked about the big picture, and we talk about grace. Maybe it’s just looking at the next right thing. So like today, you know, I woke up this morning, and I went to the gym, I feel good about that. And Alex was like, oh, you know, this is great. So for a start, I can’t wait for tomorrow. And I was like, you know, I don’t know about tomorrow. Like, I don’t know, I don’t know what tomorrow is gonna give. But what I can say is I feel good about right now. And then I said, you know, I’m always late to record my podcast, let me try to get in earlier. So I was like, I’m going to leave earlier, that’s what I’m going to do. And then I was like, I need to put in some good time in my office. So that’s what I’m going to do this afternoon, I’m going to put in some good time, and I have some targeted things and emails that I want to get out then. And so I’m going to do that too.

You know, and if I can make the most of every moment of today, imperfectly, you know, because as I’m sure you’ll know Mama, the kid will throw up or you’ll end up going to switch overload and discovering orange crayon in the dryer. If anyone knows how to get orange crayon out of the dryer, please send me a DM. But you’ll just like you know, things will happen. But I just figure if I am making the most of each moment along the way, at least until something crazy happens, doesn’t that mean that I’ve made the most of the day and ultimately my life and that’s what I’m trying to do?

You know, so things are still gonna come up and things are still gonna get in the way, I’m still going to get distracted and I’m still going to miss the mark. Some days are going to feel harder than they should, you know and other days are going to feel like wild successes, but it’s my hope that you’ll see me and hopefully you’ll join me just getting better moment by moment. And we can celebrate each other’s wins. So when you know that book comes out and you see it you understand how I’m really feeling inside, more so than people who don’t listen to our chats here. Because it’s us you know, you’ll know that this girl is nervous.

But you know that I’m still doing it, and that you can still do it. And so friend, let’s keep after it. Let’s take this day on, let’s take this moment on. If you had a rough one, and you’re listening to this in the car right now waiting to go into the house, get into the house, just take on the moment. If you’re listening to this on your walk, or your workout, and you’re saying to yourself, I’m wiped, and I don’t know if I can do it. Let’s just get through this moment. If you’re listening to this in transit on the way to work, and you’re saying yourself, I want that promotion, I want to commit to my job, I’d rather just be at home. Let’s just get through today, let’s just get through this moment. Because life is made up of a lot of these and if we really focus on making each one the best that we can, then we are going to live the best life that we can.

Isn’t that what it’s all about? I’m glad that we get to chat like this. And I appreciate how much you let me speak into your life. And I’m excited for what the future holds even though I’m scared about it at times. And I’m thankful that you give me the grace to share all of that with you. So feel free to pop into my DMs over at Instagram, or even on Facebook or on Twitter and just let me know what are you working on? Or what have you discovered?

Because as I take this journey, and I find that I’m having a lot of success in focusing on the moment, I’m really interested to hear how it’s working for you because maybe there’s something to learn. Life’s always going to give us another excuse, another reason, another distraction and it’s all in how we show up. So I’m excited to show up with you.

Nicole:

Hey, friends, I am so excited because you know that I only bring the best of the best here when we’re gonna have a group chat. And today, I have Jennifer Justice with us. And I want to let you know that this isn’t a teeny tiny chat. This is a big one, we are going to cover everything about inclusion, diversity, women getting paid what they’re worth and what they deserve. We’re going to chat what it means to turn your purpose into a product, and how everyone has something to offer. And more than anything, they should get paid for it. So Jennifer is the perfect person. Jennifer, thank you so much for being here today.

Jennifer:

Thank you for having me. I’m excited. This is great.

Nicole:

Oh, yeah. So I can brag on you all day. But I love to have you tell us a little bit about the Justice Department. The fact that you’ve been an entertainment attorney, and you still are technically you know, for however long. I think 17 years was the last quote that I saw. But I mean, it’s just incredible. So tell us a little bit about your career and how you got into it.

Jennifer:

Yes, so Well, thank you. Thank you again, for having me. I am Yes, I own a company called the Justice Department. I founded it about, you know, four years ago. Of course, I had to use my last name because it’s too good to be true. It is my actual last name. But Justice Department was founded, and I’ll give you a little bit of background and why yes, I did spend 17 years as Jay Z’s personal entertainment attorney, and then his EVP doing all strategy and business development.

So he turned his hobbies into businesses. I was part of his small team that helped him do that. I also worked on his music, stuff, etc. And then I did that for a lot of our artists that were on the Roc Nation roster as well. And, you know, during my time, as, you know, working just with him, and actually even before when I was representing a lot of different artists, including him, and you know, Beyonce, and you know, a ton of different amazing artists that would turn their kind of, you know, main business of music into something else. I was also representing a lot of women in the music industry and men doing their employment agreements.

And very early on in my career, I did a deal for a guy and he was immediately offered an entry level. And for like an agreement, executive entry level, got immediately over $130,000. And then I did a deal for the senior director in the same group, which is a revenue generating group, she was offered 90,000 and…

Nicole:
Yikes.

Jennifer:
What? What is going on here? Oh, okay. And we have this knowledge, and why are we not saying anything about it? Small Business and, and you know, a lot of different people. So, that started me on my quest and passion for gender equality. And it was like, This is crazy. We’re 50% of the population and you feel like we can treat us like this. Why are we okay, getting treated like that? You know, right. So, you know, the whole time I’m working for Jay and helping him build his businesses and working on other, you know, Roc nation roster, artists never build out their businesses, Rihanna, and Shakira, to Haim and Sandy gold. And, you know, just was amazing and great. I learned a lot. We did everything in a non-traditional way. We got funding in non-traditional ways. We weren’t getting like VC money.

Nicole:
Yeah. Well, it’s non-traditional, because that’s at the forefront of it. I mean, now, every celebrity has a skincare, a mommy product or something. But I mean, truly, they’re the pioneers. I mean, they’re the first ones to do it big and they’re the reasons why a lot of other people are getting into it now.

Jennifer:

Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, Jay, in particular, his philosophy was like, why would somebody else get paid on stuff that I’m promoting?

Nicole:

That’s right. That’s right.

Jennifer:

And, and that’s where we also knew that like having authenticity as a part of whatever that product was, was so important, because can’t really do it unless you really believe in it, right? And yes, it really happened and really taken off. It’s because there was like a true authenticity behind it. And the other thing was, it wasn’t like an it was actually looked as like being kind of a sellout.

Nicole:

For sure. I mean, people were like, I thought you were a rapper, and here you are opening up, I think the first things were restaurants. There was alcohol and liquor collaborations, so on and so forth. And everyone thought it was crazy. But now Rihanna sells underwear and we can’t get her to sing. So it all works out in the end. I wanted to circle back though, to this visibility you had around contracts.

So the clients that I work with, you know, I think the very nature of consulting is one where you’ve seen so many different options, that you’re able to be the person that people can go to because they don’t know what they don’t know. But you know, Jennifer Justice knows and what she knows is that, you know, this person is getting paid this amount, this contract close with this deal and these terms. So I want to ask you just right out of the gate, what was one of the most outlandish disparities that you’ve ever seen outside of that? 130 to 90,000? I mean, do you see big, big differences in like the deal length of times? Like, where are you seeing it the most in gender equality, is it mostly around pay?

Jennifer:
It’s mostly money.

Nicole:

Wow.

Jennifer:
It’s mostly money. And so you know, that was a director, senior director level, by the time I got to like C suite, we’re talking hundreds and 1000s of dollars, and then that’s over, like,

Nicole:

So it continues even into the higher echelons like you’re seeing the same disparity?

Jennifer:
By far, by far.

Nicole:
Wow, wow.

Jennifer:

I just did a CNBC article and, you know, talking about all of the different reasons that I get as well.

Nicole:
Oh, I’d love to hear some of those. Because, you know, as women who’ve always been very insistent on, the thing that’s tough to know is that I’ve always insisted on getting paid and getting paid well. I’ve still found out that I’m getting paid 20,000-25,000 less than the person next to me like and, and I’m fighting for it. So I want to know, what are some of the reasons because for me, they’re all BS. Like, there’s not a single good one.

Jennifer:

There’s, well, there’s no, there’s no good one. It’s like, it’s like your work is your work, but it’s everything from you know, well, her husband gets paid a lot. She doesn’t need it. And this guy runs, you know, is the head of the household and he needs the money more. That is none of your business don’t stolen. Yeah, I can’t bring personal into work. But you can?

Nicole:
Right! Right? Well, that’s a crazy one, too, because more and more women are the breadwinners for their family. I’ve been the sole breadwinner for my family, the entire duration of my previous marriage, you know, and so, you know, not only did I need that money, but you know, it was very assumptive. You know, it’s very assumptive to even think that a husband is contributing in the same way, which is baffling. Also with student loans, Girl, please. Everybody needs every penny.

Jennifer:

I had all of those two. Yes. And so you know, other ones, including “Well, you know, she’s a little too bossy, her tone” you know, all the things.

Nicole:

Wow. So we’re gonna just dock her pay right up front, right, because a woman who knows what she wants is instantly bossy, or aggressive, or pushy or mean.

Jennifer:

Bossy, and emotional have never been said about men that’s called Oh, yeah. passionate and…

Nicole:

Driven. And yes, in addition, yes, absolutely. So knowing that you’ve seen this, and knowing that this is something that’s come up, I mean, right now we have more kids than ever. I’m a mom to three adopted girls. And so I’m an older Mom, I’ve got a 24 year old and a 21 year old and they are full on Gen Z, getting into the world and growing up, you know, still upset about pay inequality. You know, this generation cares about the issues more than ever before, which I love, I love to see, but they’re also approaching it differently.

You know, they’re saying, well pay inequality is trash. I’m just not going into corporate. I want to build my own brand. And then when I asked them, well, what does that mean to you? And they’re like, Well, I’m just gonna do content, and you know, and be charismatic, and I’ll get paid for it.

So as someone who has their hands in developing some of the top brands working with the top creatives and amazing both influencers, authors, right, I mean, Justice Department runs the gamut. Can you tell us a little bit about what makes for a solid, well-paid female led brand?

Jennifer:

Well, I mean, there’s a lot of work a lot of content in the front, I mean, because you have to think about it, it’s, you have to come up with the mission and the vision first and foremost, like, speaking to, like you can become like, if you become something overnight, it can be taken away just as quickly as it is there. I mean, especially when you’re relying on other mediums and platforms for that, you know, there was a time when people would like certain YouTube stars, they changed the algorithm, and they were desolate the next day. Or people who have relied solely on an Instagram from a D to C, and then somebody claims copyright. And if you claim it three times, they just take your stuff down and try to get a person at Meta, Facebook, whatever you want to call it. That doesn’t exist.

Nicole:
That’s right. That’s right.

Jennifer:

And you’re talking like all of your sales are from there. Yeah. Like it’s cannot you cannot rely on third party platforms. What if tick tock does get, you know, decommissioned in the United States?

Nicole:

What is so good you are preaching right now. So I say this to my clients all the time, but I always joke that if you don’t want to hear it from Mama, maybe we’ll hear from Auntie okay, we’re both you’re telling you right now that social media is not the thing you should be relying on. Yes, it’s a great perk. It’s a nice shortcut to be able to have but we don’t own social. You should be getting your people onto a newsletter.

You should be making sure that you have ownership over those relationships where you can use and leverage them and come up with some creative ways to sell so a lot of the clients that I work with, I always joke that Kylie Jenner didn’t come up with her lip kits, she had to reach out to someone to do it for her because she doesn’t understand warehousing and contracts and chemistry and you know, all these different pieces, she really is just the face of the brand.

But unfortunately, a lot of people think that being the face of the brand is the product. So where are some of the areas that Justice Department touches to help some of these, you know, brands actually create something to be sold?

Jennifer:

Well, it’s kind of like a building, you know what I mean? It’s like, you know, you can’t just be the window, like, you need the concrete and everything else in it. Right? Right. A lot of people go straight to social media around, they think, Okay, I’m gonna build this company, and I’m just gonna go straight to social media and talk about it. But if you don’t have the right entity setup. You know, what I mean? Is an LLC, an S corp, where is it being a right bank account? You know, and then all of a sudden, people are like, Okay, I want 100,000 of them.

Nicole:
<laughs> Right. Right.

Jennifer:
What are you going do? The next day, you’re gonna turn off your social media and be like, Haha, that was a joke. Because where are you getting the money to fund the 100,000 widgets? You know? Right? The dollar, right? Where are you getting that? Right? And then let’s say, you know, you want to be, you know, a personality influence or whatever that is. All right, you get hired, okay, who’s doing all the stuff? That’s right, organizing it?

Nicole:
Who’s doing the logistics?

Jennifer:
Who is organizing your travel? Where you have to be, what you’re going to look like? Who’s shooting it?

Nicole:

That’s right, there’s so much that goes into it now. It’s not like it was before in order to be competitive. Now, I don’t want to discourage anyone, because I do know that people still have big hopes and big dreams. But I think what you know, is an amazing thing to extract from this trap so far is the fact that, look, you do need teams, and you need help. And we should be tapping into our resources of the people who’ve been there before us in order to grow.

So one of the things I want to ask you is, for people who are more established or have been building brands, how do you people decide, you know, the big wigs like your Jay Z’s or Beyonce, the massive? Yeah, how do they decide what product alignment they want to do? Because like you said, being authentic is important. And I know for a fact that literally, if Blistex could get Beyonce to sponsor their chapstick, because both names start with a B, they would. Right? So how does a Beyonce or Jay Z decide what their next product is?

Jennifer:

Well, you know, I mean, look, I can’t, I can’t speak for that right now.

Nicole:

Well, how do you advise it?

Jennifer:

Thinking about it from a perspective of talent, right? You’re like, Okay, what, what’s the kind of brand? What are the things that are authentic to me? This is what I tell all the talent that I worked at, what are what’s authentic to you, you know, and the categories, right? And then like, what in that category? You know, maybe it’s like, we see a lot of people do alcohol. Using the example of like George Clooney, you know, that that’s authentic to him to do tequila. If he’s drinking tequila, he seems like a tequila kind of guy.

Nicole:

Absolutely.

Jennifer:

And it’s like, yes, for him to then do that. Like, what kinds of things would you do for it too? And then what and then, you know, then you have to look at the deal, like, there are deals too bad to accept.

Nicole:

Oh, I love that. Can we just pause and hold on that? In the season of everyone wanting to say yes to all the things I mean, people will be on reality TV, just because they think they’ll get five minutes of fame. From a seasoned attorney who’s done this, for the top of the top, you are saying that sometimes we should say no.

Jennifer:

Yeah, definitely. What are you going to get out of it, you have to really think about that. And then let’s not forget all the work behind it, you know, because if you’re starting, you already have a line of business, that’s why you’re getting this kind of access to start another line of business. So now getting a second company.

Nicole:
That’s good.

Jennifer:
You’ll have to perform for the second company, because the actual company is coming to you because they think that you can move the needle. There is pressure on you to actually move the needle. Because what if it doesn’t move the needle, you think that they’re going to be quiet about that?

Nicole:
No, not at all.

Jennifer:
Right, your reputation will be ruined. So you’re going to want to make sure that you can provide what they need, right? Because you want it to succeed. You also want to make sure that the company is supported in a way from their executive staff to who gives them money. You can’t just do the shiny new toy right of course you’re gonna have a company you got to make sure you got to do your diligence on them.

Nicole:
Yep.

Jennifer:

To make sure that you’re going to make more money by taking equity and providing your services than if you just did a straight sponsorship endorsement deal.

Nicole:
So good, so good. And that is I think that that is such a multi-layered lesson right because on the forefront it’s just smart about your brand deal construction, but on the other side, what you’re saying is look as a woman oftentimes we feel like we got to take what we get. And we have to stop doing that, because we have to decide if they’re worth working with us. That’s what I’m hearing right now, that’s a little bit of justice realness right there. Just like, you know, do you like the deal? And does it make sense for you? And are they worthy of having your brand attached to them?

Jennifer:

Yeah, exactly. You have to look at it both ways, you know. And, you know, like I said, there are deals that are just too bad to accept.

Nicole:
Oh, I love that. I love thinking of it that way. And then the other side of it is, when you are deciding about these deals, I feel like things kind of fall into two buckets. And correct me if I’m wrong, because you’ve seen so many deals. It seems like now there’s either the, do you want to do a collaboration or sponsor an existing product? Or do you want to come out with your own? Do you think that there’s a certain timeline where that makes sense? Because a lot of new entrepreneurs are trying to be innovative and come up with something brand new. But you know, does it just make more sense for them to try to pitch these relationships? Or is it a little bit of both? What would you advise for people trying to start out fresh?

Jennifer:
It’s a little bit of both. I mean, actually, it comes to beauty. You know, what people don’t understand is there’s a bunch of products out there, which are the exact same thing.

Nicole:
Oh, yeah, they’re made by like four companies.

Jennifer:

And there’s a different label on it and a different kind of upcharge. That’s right. And here’s what it is, you know, you know, they have all of these labs that work on all of these different formulations and then they take the formulation and then they put their look on it.

Nicole:

Yeah, they make it a different color. It’s white labeled, you know, and we’ve talked about that before on the podcast. White labeling is something that is actually very public knowledge if you go to a Trader Joe’s, you know, all of those products are labeled Trader Joe’s, but they’re all made from facilities like you know, one of the most popular well known versions is Stacy pita chips. You know, the Trader Joe’s pita chips are Stacy’s brand, but they’re white labeled for sale in the store. So, so it’s good to know that it may actually make sense to do some of these collaborations even though you know, Jay-Z says cut out the middleman. You know, if you’re starting out there may be an opportunity there to leverage what’s already existing and save yourself some of the headache and the manufacturing and the back end.

Jennifer:

And the R&D. It’s a time timing thing to you know, it’s like when Jennifer Garner um, you know, is promoting that brand Once Upon a Farm. Yes, everyone thought that she actually came up and graded it that exists, right? She bought it.

Nicole:

Hmm, clever.

Jennifer:

Or invested in it. I don’t know exactly if she bought it. It existed, it was a product right? And she was interested in it, liked it. And instead of trying to build her own to compete with it, it’s like might as well take that on, make it her own, right? And then move it forward.

Nicole:

Right. Oprah is notorious for that. She did not invent Weight Watchers, y’all plot twist spoiler alert that wasn’t her. But she is a main investor. She’s also a main investor in True Food farms. And she’s actually built a brand off of I guess, the original influencing, right, you know, just kind of saying, Hey, I love this product so much that I put my money behind it. And you should too. And yeah, and there’s an opportunity to do that as well. So I love all of these tips. You know, I’m taking notes for myself, because I’m over here, like, skincare line, should I wish I keep doing my own should I see about aligning, like, this is all really great stuff.

So um, but I wanted to talk a little bit about being female led, because we’re both you know, female business owners, and you work with so many, you know, female brands, but even though you’ve had a chance to touch lots of different ones. Can you tell us a little bit more about your decision with that, because knowing that women are paid less knowing that means that realistically, your contract deals competitively could be less, you know, what made you say this is where you wanted to hang your hat and support women when you decided to go solo?

Jennifer:

It was more that it’s like I was making money for men by day trying to overthrow the patriarchy at night. And I needed to change that dynamic. And I knew, you know, back to like my example of a house it’s like you don’t put the windows in first, you have to pour the concrete and you have to build a foundation. I knew that a lot of women were coming from creative angles and solving for places that, you know, we all have whitespace and needs, which is great. But you have to start with that dynamic. Like you have to start with a foundation.

And so because I was one of the only women in the room and the business side of things, I knew I was there, there were very few other women in there. So how did they all have a business background and start companies? They needed somebody like me to help them understand even things like you could come from a finance background, but have you ever hired lawyers before? Do you even know? So many people are so confused by what lawyers do they think you know…

Nicole:

Or that there’s different ones. A contract attorney is different from an environmental law attorney.

Jennifer:

A trademark attorney, which is what every single business needs, that’s right, you know, you need a trademark attorney, you can’t just hire anybody to do it, like you’re paying somebody on your dime to learn how to do trademarks. And they have to be experienced. It’s a very nuanced area of law. And so I help them, you know, figure out all the things that they don’t know, they didn’t know that they needed, right. And so for me, it was really just getting the information out there to women, and negotiating on their behalf. So they didn’t feel like imposters. Like I was for them. Because that’s the other thing that a lot of women don’t understand. If you’re at an executive level, you do not have to negotiate your own deal, you should never be negotiating your own deal.

Nicole:

Oh so good. Jennifer, I’m going to tell a truth moment right now that aligns with this, and is going to blow everyone’s mind. So when I first started, because I came from corporate I was in the C suite, I’d seen the things I’d seen. I started off my business, and I had a manager that I created an email for and named Daniel. And Daniel was not a real person. I knew that if I had to negotiate my own contracts, even though I didn’t have the bandwidth or the capacity or the revenue to hire a team or an agent or manager or anything that I would get less. So I actually and I also knew that I would get better deals if Daniel, a man who was an overcoat negotiating for me rather than myself. So in some of my very first brand deals that I acquired, I actually was negotiating them myself as Daniel, truth moment truth moment.

Jennifer:

It’s so true. Daniel is a necessity.

Nicole:
That’s right.

Jennifer:

It’s really hard to negotiate for yourself. When I first got offered the job of Roc nation, Jay goes, who am I going to have an attorney? And I was like, Who am I going to have? And he was like, we hire an attorney. And it was like, there’s a little clue shit, like a little saying, like, anybody who represents themselves has a fool for a client. That’s right now. And so I negotiate the deals, and I’m like, don’t even negotiate the salary. Let me do it. 

Nicole:
That’s right.

Jennifer:

Because, you know, having that person like, push for you. You won’t even want to be in the room. Trust me, right? They’re not going and you know, people get nervous. And women in particular get nervous. I just had a you know, I host my own podcast, you know, taking care of Lady business. Yes, you’re gonna have to be on.

Nicole:
Yes. We’ve got things to talk about!

Jennifer:

Yes, the last one I talked about, you can be kind, but you don’t have to be nice and in negotiation. Giving up being kind is not you know, being, you know, rude and mean and demeaning. Right? And it’s like, no, you’re not nice in a negotiation, it gets you nowhere. So hire somebody who has spent their entire life learning how to negotiate, it’s second nature to me, for you.

Nicole:
This is brilliant. I mean, I know that as someone who’s still a bulldog with my negotiations, I still for the big things, honestly, like my divorce, my lease for my office building. I mean, anything I’ve done that is major. My TV show deals like I’ve tapped, properly trained and qualified people one, because just like Jennifer’s saying, here they have seen and they know what you don’t know, including the tactics that will be used to try to get you less.

And then aside from that, I’m going to be really realistic, emotions and not emotions in the women have too many emotions and can check them emotions. Like, I get pissed. I don’t like when people are going to underpay me. And that does not serve, you know, a negotiation either. If I feel like people are playing games with my coins, I should not be in the room, it’s better for someone who can come in there and say, I know where we’re gonna end up. And I’m not even going to get worked up and I’m going to keep it going. And that’s part of what you’re able to do for people right, Jennifer is you’re able to come in there level headed and know what the goal is.

Jennifer:

Well, what I love that you just said is like, you know, getting women to that point where they get pissed about not getting enough instead of like, I’ll just take it I’ll just take now and I give everybody like this lesson and example. It’s like, I am a single mom to two kids. They’re 10 year old twins. Like I would kill somebody over them. Oh, yes. hard pack them. Obviously. You know what I mean? It’s like you know what you do? You know, think about that when somebody is trying to underpay you, which means they’re also trying to underpay what you love the most. It could be a dog, it can be yourself. But you know what I mean? Whatever it is, there they are, that’s who they’re disrespecting. Because every minute you get underpaid and take time away. You know from your taking time away from them. Yeah, and it’s disrespecting them so. So why are we allowing it? You know?

Nicole:
Yes, I mean, this right here. One of my common phrases I say is I don’t do free. I’ll do free for churches for charity and for children and even the church pay is a plumber. Okay? So it’s like one of those things. And the reason I say that is simply because, you know, again, as a single mom also, you know, I absolutely am not okay with the idea of even with my time, my actual time, like, I’m not going to sit down with someone who’s going to put time on my calendar, talk my ear off for an hour, but then not commit to either action or my legacy or funds or something because I could be with my kids or I could be sitting on my butt eating chips and catching up on Law and Order SVU. I got things to do.

Jennifer:

And envisioning your growth to better other women who you are going to hire.

Nicole:

That’s right.

Jennifer:
Daniel excluded.

Nicole:
Daniel excluded, right! Listen, y’all feel free to take that little tip, but eventually you will need to mature to real attorneys, real agents, real everyone, but I’m not kidding. It really worked. It really worked, though, which was crazy. I can’t tell you how many times Daniel would reach a stalemate. You know, you guys can see my air quotes a stalemate and say, You know what, I’m going to escalate this to Nicole. Tap her in, we’ll see where we can go with the next range. And you know, and that would get me more money. I mean, and believe it or not, you’re hearing two people here, you know, I’ve done it in the corporate consulting side, you know, Jennifer has touched everything legal, all these brand deals, we’re all saying, Look, you’re likely underpaid, you deserve to get paid more and it’s not going to happen without you asking for it, or getting someone in there who will. Like that is just the facts of it. So now I want to talk about running your own business. So you just you know, jumped ship to full time entrepreneurship four years ago, and you run a team of women also, and one of the things that really been a priority for you is inclusion and diversity and equity, has always been.

So tell us a little bit more about that, and what it’s been like to, you know, start a business with that mind?

Jennifer:
Well, you know, you have to constantly get out of that place where you’re like, trying to just save money to save, you know, and like, I had an instance where even, you know, somebody coming to me, that requested more money than another one. And I just had to give the second one more money without telling them because I’m like, I’m not going to pay you more, because you asked and they didn’t.

Nicole:

Yes. Oh, that is huge.

Jennifer:
It’s a conversation that’s happening constantly, even when I’m representing, you know, women etc, you know, against their companies or whatever. Yeah, you know, we just find that women don’t ask. But you have that information and you do nothing about it. Like, should you instead be giving these contracts to the women or people who don’t ask and say, Please give this to your attorney to negotiate on your behalf?

Nicole:

Yes, this is so good. I mean, it’s also one of the ways when we talk about fighting the patriarchy that we can do that for each other. You know, I hire vendors all the time. And whenever I get a contract deal in from a vendor, and I’m negotiating it on behalf of my agency, where they’re like, Hey, pick your for for your vendors that you want for your glam squad, or pick your vendors that you want for, you know, your on-site catering or what have you. If I have a choice, and I get to hire, you know, marginalized communities or women, I’m going to, first and foremost. And then second, if one vendor sends me a quote, and the quote comes in less than another vendor, I have absolutely gone back and said, Hey, you have underbid yourself by $500. Come back and at least so that that way, at least I’m submitting the same number in for all parties so that when we get to work again, we’re starting where you should be, and I can tell you, every single one of them has always come back and said, Thank you so much for that and made adjustments across the board with their other clients.

And you know, what’s funny about this for y’all who are listening, and Jennifer, I know isn’t even gonna blink at this. These companies don’t flinch. They pay the amount. Like here we are all worked up and they pay it. It’s crazy.

Jennifer:

Yeah. That’s what it’s all about. It’s like helping them understand their worth and then negotiating on their behalf so they can actually see what happens in real time. You know, I’ve done deals where I’ve made you know, my clients four times the amount of money they were making before and wow, you know, and they were already making a lot of money and they were like, oh, no, it just feels like it’s gonna suck at this new place. And like of course it’s going to suck.

Nicole:
Get paid girl!

Jennifer:

It is going to suck, but you can do it with a lot more money and freaking out about that side of it, you know?

Nicole:
That’s right. When the money is there. I think that that is always the shocker is sometimes people are just baffled by how much money is moving around within these corporations and the funds are there. The funds are absolutely there and frankly, they can pay some guy less if they have to. There’s no reason why they can’t pay me more, especially if I’m coming in with more credentials, more experience, more capability, like run me my money and cut my check. I love that.

Jennifer:
And I love overall, like, you know, the overall whole tenor and everything reason why we started this is as you know, to have this network of women and to like, so it’s advice for women by women, you know, I’ve had many men say like, well, what’s wrong with me giving advice? And I just go, okay, like, let’s say that a gay man comes to you and asks for advice in business in a way that has feels a little, there’s a little personal tension to it. Would you give him advice? No. Okay, then why are you giving it to women? Right. 50% of the population. Our brains are, you know, are different, like, we process stuff differently, we process risk differently.

Read all the statistics we;re paid at most 80% of men, at most, you know, and it goes down, you know, to like, 30 to 35% for Native American women. You know, 2% of venture funding. Hey, none of the rules apply to us that apply to you. That’s right. You’re giving me advice about name your price? No, I’m going to be called bossy.

Nicole:

Absolutely.

Jennifer:

Speak your mind. Now I’m going to be called emotional. That’s right. Yeah. You know, so. So hearing advice for women, by women and hiring women, and hiring the women at that, that actually control the companies. Okay? Don’t hire the woman that’s in the loft. I mean, no offense to this woman.

Nicole:

Sure, sure.

Jennifer:
If the law firm that’s owned by all dudes just right, right.

Nicole:
Right, no one wants to be the token, I can tell you people act like women don’t know that. Or like black women aren’t aware. If I am being brought into an environment. That is not it doesn’t matter if I’m the only one, that is not what makes me the token. What makes me the token is when I’m the only one I’m underpaid. I’m not given work that’s respected. I’m not heard. I don’t have a voice. I’m not given resources. Those are the things that tell me very clearly that I’m here for visibility purposes. And that’s it. And that’s unacceptable.

Jennifer:

Well, and on top of that, they don’t really care.

Nicole:
That’s right. That’s right.

Jennifer:
That’s the thing on top of it, it’s like they think that they want a different audience? I’m fine with the audience they have, of course, why are they going to change it? You know, whenever somebody’s in that situation, I’m like, Look, go in that situation because you need the money, you need the job, get as much as you can. But then really get as much as you can get all the access, get all the contacts, go on all the calls, do all that work for the next year, with your foot out the door, looking at all the other places you can go that actually want you and want to hear your viewpoint and understand the dinosaurs become extinct. Because that way of thinking is just going away.

Nicole:
Oh, that’s good.

Jennifer:
You know, your kids are Gen Z. Mine are alpha. They talk about this stuff at 10!

Nicole:
Absolutely.

Jennifer:

Granted, I’m their mother.

Nicole:

No, it’s still true, though. I mean, I’ve got you know, granted, I’m their mother, but I’ve got kids also that are like, what’s our real plan? You know, and their real plan is not some plan that was given to them, you know, by the patriarchy or by, you know, society or by, you know, people who don’t look like them. Their plan is what do I want to do? And how do I want to show up and, and I’m gonna get paid for it. So I think you’re completely dead on and, and it’s just so interesting, because I think an overarching theme that I’m hearing here is strategy and intentionality. That if you are going into negotiations, have a frickin plan, you know, if you are going into a job that you know, you’re gonna hate, getting paid well, maybe part of your plan to get the heck out, you know, and, and I love hearing that if you don’t have a plan, or if you don’t have a strategy, listen, Justice Department, Nicole Walters, we’re here screaming, get one we want to help you, you know, you don’t have to make it up. And there’s nothing wrong with you for not knowing how to do it. You know?

Jennifer:

That’s the other thing too. “I’m sorry, I don’t know any of this.” And like, why would you know this?

Nicole:
Yes. You’re not supposed to!

Jennifer:
That’s why you hire people. That’s the cycle. That’s right, right. You hire the experts to do it. You should know it. Just like I’m not never going to learn how to use Excel.

Nicole:
Right? Why do you need to? There are people who do it. And also how many of us as women have been in meetings, where guys have gone on and on and on about stuff they did not know. And these are guys who are paid more, who have more visibility, more recognition, talk to the press all these things. And you’re like, they don’t even know how to turn on the light switch here. And yeah, here they are confidently, confidently making plans, writing deals, issuing rules, and they don’t even know what they’re doing. So it’s like, look, we know what we’re doing and we should speak up about it.

Jennifer:
Yeah, absolutely.

Nicole:
Love it. I love it. So I always love to ask whenever I have the opportunity to talk to anyone who’s had a real touch point on many different areas of the industry, especially over the past 15 years because frankly, you know, I don’t know if you think of it this way, but I always do. I mean, you’re one of the first sort of influencer Digital Entertainment lawyers, you know, I mean, people have always written sponsorship deals, you know, and things like that. But truly getting into this space where women are entrepreneurs online for the first time, I mean, there really are only a handful of attorneys that know what these contracts look like, because and I say that with experience, it is hard to find them. Because so many, you know, it’s just a lot of people sort of parlaying into this field, you know, but they haven’t seen the breadth of deals that you have. So I want to know, what are your projections for the future? I mean, do you see more people just creating their, it’s gotten easier to create your own products, people can source your own supply chains, everything, you know, where do you see things going? Are people going to keep building their own? Is it going to be innovation? Are we going to go back to basics, and people are just gonna open up bakeries. Now, again, as I’m seeing a lot of celebrities do, you know, they’re opening up bakeries and farms and ranches? You know, not liquor lines and nightclubs. And you know, things like that, luxury clothing line. So, what do you think is next? What are you hearing from your clients? What are you seeing happen?

Jennifer:

I mean, I do you do see a lot of clutter, right? You know, I mean, not sure I can do this right now. That’s right, money is lined up to do be, you know, an owner of a company. It takes a lot of time, a lot of work. And not all of them are successful no matter what, even if you’re authentically aligned. Yeah. Because what is your audience really care want to see, you know, from you. So I think there’s going to be a lot more consolidation. You know, what, I think that in particular in the female founder space, there should be a lot more merging of interests, consolidation, joint venturing, etc, for like mindedness. And, you know, because one plus one equals three in those scenarios, right, right.

And getting to the point where you can sell, there’s an exit quicker, you know, putting more money into female economy. And then I feel like the work that we’ve been doing, you know, in trying to build a matriarchy, and then the Alpha, Gen Z’s are going to meet in the middle. And yes, so be a bigger mid to large capital economy than it has been, you know, because the situation we’re in is really half the patriarchy and half as us you know, it’s feeding into it, you know, because we don’t have to, we don’t have to make those choices.

Nicole:

100% Absolutely. No, I love this. I love the idea of, you know, our generation being the one that is handing down everything to these Z’s and alphas and then they’re just gonna take it and run with it. We’re gonna hand them the money, they’re gonna take their fire, we’re gonna topple it all. I love the sound of it and I’m here for it. Yes. Well, I’m here stroking the flames while you’re setting the fires. Let’s burn it all down and see great things happen.

Jennier:
Love it. I love it.

Nicole:
Thank you so much. So where Jennifer, I know you have so much going on, you’re accepting clients at the Justice Department. Can you tell us how can people get in touch with you? What do you have next? And where can people learn more about all the things that you have to share?

Jennifer:

Well, the other Justice Department people did not buy the domain on GoDaddy and www.TheJusticeDept.com. So that is one way to find me and my website or services. I host a podcast called taken care of Lady business. It’s available on all the places Apple, Stitcher, Spotify, etc. and on Instagram, we’re at TheJustice.Dept. And I’m at JenniferJusticeL. And we’re on Tik Tok Taking Care of Lady Business. We’re in all the places because you know we’re not like just relying on one social media.

Nicole:

That’s right. That’s right. I love it. And of course, if you want to reach out, definitely reach out to Jennifer and her team. Because you don’t have to go at this alone. We’re stronger together. Thank you so much for being here, Jennifer.

Jennifer:

Thank you.