Nicole:

Hey, friends, today’s chat is going to change your life. Now you already know I do not bring people on here. I don’t like to introduce them to you unless I know for a fact that they are one, helpful, two, generous with tons of integrity and three, honestly a really good friend of mine that I know through and through and when I tell you I’ve got just a Few women that are in my corner. But I’ve known for years and years and years that I have that in my life, my babies, the ins and outs, and today’s chat is actually with one of them. So the reason why I want you guys to meet Jadah is because she is well known in the industry as being a life changing, impactful person. And you hear that a lot about people, you hear that they have the ability to change your life or your business, like everyone’s sort of selling that online. But I can tell you through experience, you know, personally that she’s changed my life. And I want to let you know about the tools that you can use to have her help change yours. So I’m so excited to say that our chat today is not just me and you girl, it’s with my best girlfriend, Jadah Sellner. Jadah, thanks for being here.

Jadah:

I’m so happy to be here Nicole.

Nicole:

Of course, of course. So keeping it all the way real. Everyone kind of already knows you if they follow me on Instagram, because we have. We’re part of our squad, our group of four you know, girlfriend squad, you know, that travels the world together, support each other, all those good things. So let’s just take people back to moving forward. And I’ll let you tell the story of how we met because it’s actually different for us versus the rest of the squad.

Jadah:

Yes. So the original, it was a trio squad.

Nicole:

Right. It was never a trio, I invited you. You were part of it. Like you didn’t actually have a choice. Really? We like the squad is the four of us. But just Jadah wasn’’t there on the day that we initiated the process.

Jadah:

Yes. On the Big Island. So our first gathering was actually in Sausalito. Yes, California. Yes.

Nicole:

Which is interesting, because that was also a very big pivotal moment, a pivotal moment where you also showed up big for me, you know, which y’all we can talk about that. I’ll keep it all the way real, you know, but we’ll take it back to me for the first time was our squad met in Kona. And that was where we like signed our friendship contract. And y’all I have the rest of the squad on here because you need to hear what this is like. But you can keep up with our squad and pics on Instagram. They’re all there. It’s good, good stuff. But um, you know, Jen Kim, and Nikki Brown. Like we all met in Hawaii. And we were like, hey, you know, do you want to do life together? That’s the short story of it. Do you want to do life together? It’s too hard to do by ourselves. We work in you know, this wonky industry. We just want to help people. Can we actually be real and support each other through and through? Yeah, we all said yes. And we said but we need Jadah. Jadah, you will love her, Nicole. It’ll be fine. All that and then I met you in Sausalito.

Jadah:

Yes, yes. And I think we connected because we have our ancestry in Ghana. Yes, yes. And I think it’s just a really beautiful thing that we have built this friendship from a very intentional place. Because oftentimes, we’re waiting right for just something to organically happen. But our squad is intentional. It is effort.

Nicole:

Yes, it’s work.

Jadah:

It is time. It’s money, where we have to step away from our responsibilities. We’re all running our own businesses. Yes, we all have babies at different ages, marriages, stages, marriages, transitions, for babies, all the things. And there are many times when we will try to opt out.

Nicole:

Listen, okay, so first and foremost, this is the problem of having your friends in the room for a chat. It’s kind of like when you decide to bring a new boyfriend or someone close over home, and your parents are spilling all your business. I’m over here trying to have a little chat to others like, so I’m gonna this is if you guys have ever wondered what it’s like to work with Jadah, she is a straight shooter. She’s not gonna hold no punches, she will go right to the core of what you want to talk about what the issue is and make you face it full on.

So you right, it is we have to be intentional, and it is hard work. And we’ve had to say, you know, tough things, you know to each other and absorb it like that time and Sausalito you know, second time around, ya know, which I keep hinting at it while y’all just being candid. I was seeing someone who wasn’t the best fit for me. And my friends, you know, including Jadah, I have been on this journey since before the separation divorce transition, they knew it was coming. They were seeing signs of it. They were, you know, helping me with all of it. But you know, when I got back out in the world, and I started dating again, I was just it was, you know, there’s pee in the dating pool. It was not working out. And I called them, you know, and I said, Hey, I need help. I’m not okay. And they kind of and I didn’t even know what I needed. And you know, they booked a hotel and at a resort and just kind of whisked me away.

Jadah:

We did. Yeah, you did. And we dropped everything. we had things within our schedule. Yeah, moving things around. And I think that is true friendship. It’s messy. Right. But knowing when Yeah, and being able to know that this was a season to really be there for you. And also that we weren’t coddling you in this season because I think you were thinking..

Nicole:

I thought it was gonna get a little getaway like I needed to escape from the problem was what I was expecting, because just truth moment came out of my therapists office and my therapist literally looked at my fake face and said, You cannot go home after talking about sort of what I’ve gone through. You need to call your girl Friends, so from the parking lot in tears I sent into the group texts. I’m not okay. I don’t know what I need. I need help.

Jadah:

And can we say something the power of that of saying, I’m not okay.

Nicole:

I didn’t even know what was wrong, right? To be honest, I really didn’t.

Jadah:

But to have that vulnerability and trust. And that’s not easy. That comes from pouring in time, energy, showing up for each other consistently, even when it’s hard, even when our lives are full. They’re busy. All of those pieces. We needed that consistency.

Nicole:

Yes.

Jadah:

And also just time.

Nicole:

I couldn’t have done that a year into our friendship, but it was a whole lot easier to do five years. Yeah, friendship, because I knew, based on the history we’ve built in the things we’ve gone through, you know, that it didn’t matter what I showed up like, or if I even knew what I needed, that it was safe for me to say it out loud in the room to even be heard and held. Right. And so in that moment, you guys whisked me away and said, Hey, girl, we need to go, you know, we need to see you in person to see what what is going on.

Jadah:

Well, we did eat well.

Nicole:

Well, we always do. We did shop, we always do that too.

Jadah:

And then we got you really it was like a squad intensive. It was your life, your relationships. Also, how does all of these decisions that you were making impact your business? Yes, your brand, right? Because you know, Nikki Elledge Brown is always talking about like the highlight reel. Yes, right, R E E L and then there’s the highlight reel of like, R E A L, right. And there are seasons when that needs to be sacred behind the scenes, and being able to pour into your life in that season when things were hard. And it wasn’t meant to be shared publicly.

Nicole:

So good. And that was a huge part of that time was I was just struggling because I was trying to like he’ll cope and still show up. And one of the things you did so well in that time was you said, Girl, one, this person you’re dating and the way that and the way that you’re showing up is not the way, you were like, it’s I understand that things may be good for you in certain capacities. But this little thing you’re doing which y’all it was a long commute is basically she was like you put in a little too much effort.

Jadah:

I like that you said it was basically it because you know.

Nicole:

There was some other things. But that wasn’t that was the part that stood out to me where you were like, You cannot do this thing anymore. You know, it’s not reasonable. And I was like, but what if he’s the one you know, and you were like, Girl, he’s not the one he’s not the one because this plus this this this? Yeah, but this right here tells me he’s not the one and I was like, but I’m there is no the one and I just like why can’t I find somebody? Like I was just struggling? Yeah. And, and you guys literally like held me, but also gave me exactly what I needed. Yeah.

Jadah:

And I think it’s interesting, because your therapist was like, Go lean on your girlfriend.

Nicole:

She did.

Jadah:

And you did.

Nicole:

And I had them. Thank you. Yes, I had them y’all.

Jadah:

And then we ping ponged you right back and like, Oh, and here’s where you need to let your therapist in even deeper. And I talked about that right of having a support squad where it’s not just your friends who are doing business and life and work and just building something meaningful in the world. But also being able to have your mentors and your advisors and your therapist, your life coach. Your partner, your spouse, can’t be all the things, can’t be your business strategist.

Nicole:

You don’t even want it. You don’t even want it. Like think about the people that you know. So so we’re getting into the good. So let’s talk about that. Because in order for me to have what I needed, God knew I was going to get divorced. God knew what was ahead of me, right. I didn’t know, you know, no one ever does, you know. And so since I didn’t know that, I’m so grateful that God also knew, hey, let’s start this relationship with these women because you’re going to need them to get through this season, seven years later. So there was an intentionality that happened there for the beginning, like you were mentioning. So let’s talk a little bit about this. Now if y’all don’t know Jadah has written this incredible book. And I do not you know me, I do not plug things I do not love. I’m obsessed with popcorn, a hulking bag, and this book, okay.

And this book is called She Builds and it is the thing that everyone is trying to talk about now soft life and all these things that they barely understand that Jadah has been living and teaching and breathing and championing since day one, the book is available on Amazon. It’s called She Builds Jadah Sellner. Get it, read it, live it, but Jadah, we’re talking about this. We talk about the squat. Yeah, that it’s not just one person and that these people also matter because part of why your marriage may not be working as you’re trying to use them as members of your squad. Yeah, it shouldn’t be so tell us more about a real squat that helps support success.

Jadah:

Yeah, so really looking at it from a holistic perspective. I have these three buckets where we have our peers, our colleagues, right that’s where we come in your friends, but more than friends. Not just we’re just gonna go get spa days which we do!

Nicole:

We do that but that’s not all of it. It’s so easy to say surface without even realize people watch our stuff and they think, Oh, they go to fabulous places they shop and they eat, right? But it’s like no like in the OFF time when you’re not watching that real you know, we are crying. We are yelling. We are talking about the hard stuff. We’re laughing, we’re laughing so much.

Jadah:

We laugh, listen to music, dance. So business strategy, even strategy, the first time that we met in Sausalito, I was talking about this book. Yes, you went to No, this was the name of the book, I didn’t know. You know, it was just really being able to unpack my story and business strategies that I’ve shared with my clients over these years. So I think that piece is important. But it’s who are your parallel playmates, right, that you are doing, not just life, not just surface friendship, but actually deep, integrated whole living. And I think that’s where we were just tapping into making money. We’re making meaning in our lives and our relationships, we talk about body, we talk about all that.

Nicole:

We do talk about everything. It’s interesting, because I don’t know if many of us realize and you talk about this in your book, which is this is what part of what makes your book so great, because this is what you do well in our squad. So people have looked at us and said, I wish I wasn’t a squatter. I wish I had like you can at least get Jadah in your in your life, you know, because it’s what you do for us. You call out that that support system is needed in areas you never think it’s needed? Like, what are you doing? Like? What, how many times have you tell me what are you doing to physically support yourself? And I’m like, what do you mean, you’re like, Have you sat in a tub? Have you had some hot tea? Have you like there are things your body can utilize to support you in your next chapter. And literally, we don’t even think of it.

Jadah:

Right? We talked about recording the audio book, I’m like, Are you using some spray taking care of being a performer and those pieces? So you break it down.

Nicole:

So please keep telling us about the buckets.

Jadah:

Yes, yeah. So we have the peers, you know, those, that’s us, right, being able to do life, to do work all of those pieces together and really champion each other. And then we have our mentors and advisors. Because also, we can advise, yep. But we’re not all the way in the weeds of our businesses. You need people that can strategize, that can get lift underneath the hood, look at the p&l, look at all those pieces. And if you’re expecting your girlfriend’s to just do that for you, that’s not what they’re holding space for.

Nicole:

And they may not be qualified, let’s just say that. Just because you have a girlfriend who loves you dearly does not mean she should be helping you with your accounting and also, sometimes the tough stuff that needs to be said you don’t want that in that relationship.

Jadah:

Right. So and also what I think is beautiful, because we have such a smart squad. It’s like we can invest for each other to show on that mentor and advisor hat but we truly value that expertise and am I putting that hat on, then we’re going to invest from that perspective.

Nicole:

And it’s distinct. I think one thing that we do really well is like when we’re working it’s workout. You know, like, I can’t tell you how many times Jen camera said, Hey, girl, I’m gonna tell you something. This has nothing to do at work, but no, you don’t. And I’m like, you know, but it’s, it’s very clear and distinct. Because we love each other enough and understand, like, we cut them checks, we pay them full paying on time, because I want your full mentor hat.

Jadah:

Yes, you know, and that and also, when you’re in a build up or starting phase, you can have mentors from afar. So listening to a podcast, reading books, that’s a great way to get started. But if you’re wanting to deepen, and really grow and expand, if you’re in a season of growth, you need a mentor and advisor to help you in that season of expansion and really leveling up.

Nicole:

So that’s good. Before we get to the last bucket. You know, in case anyone’s already thinking this strategy, you offer mentorship because people always ask me like, Nicole, do you offer one on one? I do, but it’s very case by case and I don’t always have a limited, it’s so limited. I know, Jadah, you know still is very hard to get a hold like a hold up. But you do have specific windows and spaces where people can get the guidance that I get to benefit from over a croissant. You know what I mean? In Montreal. Where can people get some of that before we get into this final bucket.

Jadah:

Yeah. So going to JadahSellner.com. Jadah like Prada.

Nicole:

With an H.

Jadah:

Yes, that’s right.

Nicole:

Yes. J A D A H Sellner S E L L N E R.com.

Jadah:

Yes.

Nicole:

Okay. Perfect.

Jadah:

Yes. So I do offer mentorship and I love it. Like I love going, I have clients that I’ve been working for for five plus years.

Nicole:

Yes! Because I’ve also met your clients. And there is a first of all your clients like one of them that I absolutely love Mary cherry. She’s based here in LA, she has an art studio, Mary and a coffee shop. You’ve taken Mary through many chapters of evolution, and she is not just better than where she was because obviously she did the work. She showed up. She utilizes the tools, but I have seen a true friendship that naturally happens, because there’s the love and care and compassion, which you talked about in the book. You know, it’s it’s got to be from both, right?

Jadah:

So and I want to say something about that too. You know, I say there’s no unique messages, only unique messengers. And what I think is so beautiful is that we all do some form of coaching, consulting, mentorship, it’s limited. But that I can trust my clients to also be coached and consulted by you. I don’t know everything. Oh, for sure. And I love that like Mary’s able to do some consulting with you.

Nicole:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Like I work with Mary in certain about but there’s also I will never be a Jadah you know, they mean and so it’s nice because I can go in and apply a different eye. So, you know, it’s kind of like putting the way I always think about you know, this all ties into your support squad and needing those different eyes on their life. If Mary were to put sand in front of me with an outfit on right, Jadah may be looking based on her expertise on accessories, what sort of belt or hat or whatever. I never look at accessories, literally, it’s not my ministry. It’s not something I think of. But I may be looking at things like fit and tailoring because I’m like, it doesn’t seem to fit right or this seems too big. And you know, if you knew Jen, you know, Jen is colorful and bright and loves a pattern. She may be looking at that, you know, and this is why it may seem like it’s just one outfit, right? And they all do styling, but having those different people in the room is what makes you look uniquely like you and show up your best. Yeah. And I think that’s just so impactful. I love that you talk about that in your book. What is this final bucket outside of first you said your parallel peers, your parallel playmates, right? Then you’ve got your mentors who are really giving you that strategic advice that may be around up leveling in a business or whatever specific goal capacity. What is this other bucket?

Jadah:

So this is being able to have a safe space to be seen and heard. So it’s having your life coach, therapist, someone who can hold that emotional space for you.

Nicole:

Okay, I just want to hold on that because I know right now, I’m not kidding. We’ve got mamas, we’ve got, you know, 20 Somethings, you know, who are sitting there saying to themselves… One, where am I even going to find a parallel playmate? Like, where am I going to find a friend? Yeah, who would even understand? Yes, yeah. Because that’s so hard to find, too. Yeah, I can find the mentor thing. That’s actually the easiest, let me buy the book. Let me you know, send the email, whatever, Jadah has already said, Jadah sellner.com, you can find the mentor. Right? You know, but this last category. I know right? Now, some who will feel it in the pit of their stomach that they know they need this, but it feels unattainable. Yeah, tell us how to get emotional space that we all deserve.

Jadah:

Yeah. So I think especially as women of color, the accessibility right really thinking about or that it hasn’t been normalized to have therapeutic support.

Nicole:

It hasn’t been normalized to have issues. Yeah, let alone to seek out the resources to get home or to have have some safe space to express your emotions.

Jadah:

And oftentimes, you know, if we’re talking in the context of growing a business, we have the strategy, we have the coach, and yet, we are still spinning. And we’re just like, on this same level. And we’re wondering why the breakthrough, it’s an emotional block. So if you are facing resistance, procrastination, you’re avoiding things. I talk about this in the book of the cycle of fear, forcing, exhaustion, avoidance, rigidity.

Nicole:

So Jadah, I didn’t bring you here to tell my business, I didn’t bring you here to be attacked. So can you just repeat that for everyone else? Because I refuse to believe it applies to me.

Jadah:

So yes. So we are in the cycle of fear. So we’re in this season of forcing, we’re pushing we’re exerting effort. And when we do that, then we get exhausted.

Nicole:

So in the context of let’s just use hypothetically for everyone listening, a marriage. Okay, so right.

Jadah:

Forcing, right. And really trying to make it work. Yes, this is that it’s gonna be this, it’s, this is the problem, I will fix it. That’s tiring. And so then you lead to exhaustion.

Nicole:

So you just lay out in depression, you don’t even try you stop leaders as you’re done. Like, you show up less than your best and you just kind of let things what are the boundary, right, I’m just done right and showing up less.

Jadah:

Now you’re in avoidance.

Nicole:

Yeah. So then it’s like, you know what, honestly, I don’t even care if this thing works, hide under the cover. It doesn’t matter. I’ll just hide myself in my business. I’ll just do something. Again, not talking about myself.

Jadah:

Can we say that for a minute though. Hiding in our business, how we can use overwork to disguise to not really face what the root of something.

Nicole:

Some people might struggle with it when they can deal with it. And some people might become multimillionaires, with TV shows on USA Network, depending on how they want to show up in the cycle, right? Hypothetically, hypothetically. I’m gonna hear about this later, me and Jadah are going to launch into this like, let’s talk about that cycle. Yeah. Okay. So avoidance, and then what’s that final stage?

Jadah:

Rigidity. So getting stuck and repeating this, like, I had a plan. I had a commitment. I had a commitment and

Nicole:

People know it’s been 12 years. Yes. I’ve been in this business forever. Yes. Even though I don’t like it, even though it stresses me out. Even though I quit every other day, even though I’m not trying hard enough, you know, because I’m not interested. I said I was going to do this business. So I’m going to stay in this business and then I will just keep doing the same thing over and over.

Jadah:

Yeah, because we’re trying to be in integrity with ourselves. But we’re then out of alignment with our souls.

Nicole:

Pause on that, write it down, make it a note, put it on a post it ask yourself, Am I in, in integrity with myself, but out of alignment with my soul? WHO! You can be both, right? And you’re going to have, it’s a paradox that’s going to lead to distress.

Jadah:

Right. And, and that also circles us back to the squad to see when you’re in that pattern of that cycle of fear. If you’re in that space, sometimes you can’t read the label from inside the jar, right that so if you can’t see it, but you’re just constantly repeating the loop. Okay, back to forcing, back to exhaustion, back to avoidance, back to rigidity, and you’re just in the loop. This is why we have the collective burnout. This is why we are in a cycle of fear, we’re stuck, but we don’t feel stuck because we’re moving through these different things.

Nicole:

You can build a whole million dollar business and how multimillion dollar millionaire let me not speak negativity over my life, a multimillion dollar business, you know and have a bankrupt life. You know, so you’re sitting here saying your business is great, but your life, your soul, your morals, your happiness is just at zero. Yes, it is in debt. Yeah. So what’s great about chapter four of this book is you talk about some of the places people can start right to really move out of this because I think a lot of us may even feel like especially as successful women, right? You know, go getters who absorb content like this all the time are like, I know what I need.

But again, what you what’s different about Jadah and the way it is when you work with her when you go to her events when you read her book is she is never one. And you guys know how I am. She is never one to talk conceptually and not give you practical steps to start seeing that change right away. I’m not kidding. I went to Sausalito. I was there for 24 hours, I showed up like there is a problem. I don’t even know what it is. In 24 hours from Jadah I got the problem. And I got a first step yes, that I immediately utilized, I didn’t understand all the pieces. But the first step, when I tell you it echoed in my head every single moment to the point where I couldn’t even physically get into my vehicle to engage in the behavior that would not move me forward.

Because she was it was echoing in my head, this first step that would get me out of that cycle. And it not only got me out of the cycle, it got me healed to a place where I was able to welcome in someone who didn’t serve the cycle and apply the lesson of how this doesn’t look like the cycle before. So I know this is different, right? And that was huge. So in terms of practicality, yes. Outside of your first step being y’all grabbing She Builds by Jadah Sellner on Amazon, you should already have this in your cart. Okay, you can click buy it. Now if you’re a doer, you can click your full checkout later if you got other things you want to add. Right. But She Builds Jadah Sellner. Outside of that being the first step. What is something people could do right now? Because we love value upfront. Yeah, that can get them out of the cycle.

Jadah:

Something that I say is 10 seconds of bravery. So connecting to that first step.

Nicole:

I’ve heard this before. It’s like whenever you say it, I get chills because it works. But it’s scary. Yeah, not gonna lie.

Jadah:

But you have the big picture of where you’re wanting to go or how to get out of it. But it’s too much. It’s too many steps. So it is really coming down to what is that next? Right Action? You know, gen chem talks about this, you talk about this, of being able to take that imperfect action step. And it only takes 10 seconds of bravery. And so really thinking about in the context of the support squad, are you needing more community friendship right now that you don’t want to do this alone? You don’t want to feel alone on this journey?

Or are you needing more emotional support? Because you’re facing the resistance? The procrastination the avoidance? Or are you actually like, I’m feeling whole. I’m feeling grounded in my body.

Nicole:

We don’t acknowledge that enough. Sometimes you good. Yeah. And ain’t nothing wrong. It may be the people around you or making you think but nothing’s wrong. Yeah. That’s real, too. Yes. Yeah.

Jadah:

And so if it’s like, friendship is good. Is it the mentor or the advisor? Do I need the strategy? Like I’m just stuck, you know? So really thinking about in those three buckets? Which one do you need the most support right now? And really taking that 10 seconds of bravery to make the ask. Oh, so if it’s a friend, your girl crushing on. Send the message.

Nicole:

Y’all did that to me years ago and that 10 seconds of bravery has led to a lifetime of love, you know, so yes.

Jadah:

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Nicole:

So I know that we’re talking about the support squad and and you know, getting help, but what about the messaging or receiving elsewhere? Because while we’re trying to do the good work that’s in here in She Builds, we’re also getting messaging about hustle more grind more, do more like how am I supposed to hit my buckets? You know, if if I’m being told that I need to haul them, do it myself and be a superhero?

Jadah:

Yes. Well, the big thing is hustle culture isn’t working for women. It’s also not working for anyone.

Nicole:

So it’s not that we’re broken and not capable, right?

Jadah:

But we’re getting these messages that we’re not doing enough. We’re not making enough, right? We’re that not enough. And so it’s tapping into our worthiness. And I want people to know that they are worth it, that they are lovable. And the antidote to burnout is anti-hustle.

Nicole:

That’s such an interesting concept. Because you get burnt out by doing a lot of work, right? But then you start doing work to figure out how to fix your burnout.

Jadah:

Right. And so that’s a cost. That’s an expense.

Sometimes I have felt too tired to heal myself. And you’re telling me that the answer is sometimes just to stop?

Jadah:

Yes.

Nicole:

And that there’s permission granted to do that?

Jadah:

Yes, permission to be a slow cooker.

Nicole:

Walk me through this. Because this is a concept from the book that I’ve never heard it put this way. But it makes especially to us Mama’s and as real balancers out there. It makes sense. So walk me through this cooker.

Jadah:

Right. Because we have, we have slow cookers. And we also have pressure cookers. And pressure cookers are very complicated. Yes. There’s a lot of buttons.

Nicole:

I have an Instapot that I haven’t touched. I wanted to make yogurt girl. It’s never happening, right?

Jadah:

What are we gonna do? There’s the burn notice, all these things. It’s very complicated, but you get a meal a lot quicker.

Nicole: That’s true.

Jadah:

So there’s, it’s this complication. And I’m not judging a pressure cooker.

Nicole:

Because instapot is amazing, has changed people’s lives. Yeah, so mistake, part of why I subscribed to that life was because I was like, Well, I would love to get the meal that I want and half the time. Tell me Yeah, and make it half the time, right? Yeah, I get that.

Jadah:

And the beauty of a slow cooker is there’s two options. Four hours, eight hours, walk away, let things simmer, allow things to be slow. And at the end of the day, you still have a healthy, nourishing meal.

Nicole:

I love that. So you’re basically telling me one, I’m hearing this, y’all understand my brain is firing on all cylinders now. You’re telling me that I can choose to have both appliances in my house? Because sometimes life is a pressure. Yeah, man, you know, why do you get from the out quick and fast that works? And I may have the energy or space to understand the details and the button. Yes, that is healthy. But I also am allowed to choose to slow cook my meals one if that’s also who I am. Yes, there are some people who are only slow cooker people being told they have to be a pressure cooker in order to be successful. And that ain’t even true.

Jadah:

It’s not.

Nicole:

Oh, the freedom, yeah, hearing that. So the solution to the burnout to the stress to the grind that we’re being sold is actually the anti hustle.

Jadah:

Yes. Anti hustle.

Nicole:

That is fire. And that’s in She Builds?

Jadah:

Yes.

Nicole:

I like you, understand, I read it page by page. When I tell you the you extract from books, so you can read this book four or five times. And actually, if you haven’t read it yet, you can go to she builds.com/audible And you can start listening right after this this chat. But I’m telling you right now, when I read it for the first time, I was extracting what I needed in that moment, which is why you have to read and listen to things twice.

Jadah:

You do have to reread.

Nicole:

Because in the moment I was like, I need to pour more into my emotional support because that was the moment I was absolutely I need to go back and extract more from that because that is and this is what’s so great about Jadah if y’all don’t know, it’s not just telling me what I need in the moment. You’re also telling me Hey, girl, how can we not get back here?

Jadah:

Right. And hustle is a season. It’s not a lifestyle. So we can’t sustain ourselves our businesses are relationships, constantly being in that push mode.

Nicole:

Can I tell you that is the opposite like you’re saying aunty hustle of what we are being sold success is we are being told that it is waking up at 4am for 12 years, people rarely talk about what is your what is your secret to success? Do you know that I have not like eaten a single carb for 14 years. That’s how.

Jadah:

Or I don’t watch shows. I don’t watch TV ever.

Nicole:

I never, I only consume and read books all the time. And it’s like no, you need to play and eat your carbs. You need to rest like, have joy. Yes. Eat cheese. Yeah, like listen.

Jadah:

Make the snack plate.

Nicole:

Make the snack plate. Some days these kids don’t eat fish sticks and it doesn’t mean I’m not out here on my grind. Reese’s Peanut Butter Cup on there. I receive it because I wanted chocolate Y’all this right here is the magic. I’m telling you like it’s I literally I I’m not gonna lie down I don’t have your audiobook version. I only have the book and I didn’t realize how much I was missing so I’m headed to shebuilds.com/audible So I can listen to this too because I’m just gonna fast forward to the cooker part because I need to hear that. Yes, that’s the piece I need to hear.

Nicole:

Oh, y’all. I gotta tell you obviously, you got to see a sneak peek into what it is like to have our girl squad chats, but even better in She Builds you get to have a squad member of your own in your home every single day, Jadah can you tell us more about where people can find you? What’s going on with your book? Like, how can we engage with I know you’ve had some events? You know, where online can we draw into community around She Builds and the work that you do? Just tell us more about that?

Jadah:

Yeah, I think for podcast listeners, you know, if you are listening to Audible, you can go to shebuilds.com/audible and that will take you right just download it. Listen to all the things because we’re busy. You have full lives. So I think that piece is really important. And all your favorite, including indie bookstores are available at shebuilds.com We hang out on the socials. So I’m at Jadah Sellner where you can find that and for the mentorship. JadahSellner.com.

Nicole:

Yes, love it. So y’all, I have one big ask of you. I want you to use your 10 seconds of bravery today to go to Shebuilds.com/audible and grab this book. Feel free to skip to chapter four. Yes, you know, I’m giving you permission. Yes, read about this word squad and understand what we’re talking about here because if you can get the tools you need now, you’ll get through the book, you’ll apply everything else and you’ll get to live a life you love. Jadah, thank you so much for loving me well. And thank you so much for taking that love that you have and giving it to everyone. You are just so incredible to me.

Jadah:

I love you to pieces.

Nicole:

Friends, I am so excited. You know that I don’t do the chat thing very often. But holy cannoli. My friend Sarah is here and she is your friend too. We are going to sit down. When I tell you this chat. If you know anything about Sarah, you know, we are the same people. We have the babies, we have the bodies. Okay. And we’ll talk more about that later. We all have bodies, but we have our bodies right? The ones that people love to talk about the ones that people have things to say about. We also have the families that are made up in all sorts of mishmash ways and are still filled with so much love. And above all else, Sarah just like me and just like you is out here doing her very, very best to make a difference in this world, share what she has learned and really pour back into you all the truth that you aren’t able to find right away on the internet. She is an example of that and this chat is easily my favorite one about starting over this entire season. Lean in. So, so good. Sarah, thank you so much for being here.

Sarah:

Oh, I am beyond it. We hadn’t even hit record yet. And I feel like I just poured my guts out on the table. And we just sat and admired them a little bit. And I’m just like, are we this? Are we the same person in two different lives?

Nicole:

How much we have in align.

Sarah:

We have a lot in alignment.

Nicole:

So I’m excited about this chat, because I just want to jump into it. Because if y’all don’t know, we were already going at it. And I was like, Okay, we just need to start because there’s so much to talk about. Now if you guys follow the birdspapaya podcast, and Instagram and all that you already know, Sarah, you talk about everything you put yourself out there?

Sarah:

I do. Yeah, I do it on purpose.

Nicole:

You do! I mean, someone’s got to, you know what I mean, and you talk about your body, you talk about your family, you talk about your past and your marriage. And you’d also talk about your present and the hardship and you know, also the good, a lot of light and a lot of good. So let’s just start off with how each of those areas is a place of starting over for you. So can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Sarah:

Yeah, so it’s so fascinating. I think I like so many people started on social media in the realm of it was all perfect. And everything was so beautiful, and so delightful. And everyone was so pretty, and their kids were so well dressed. And their homes were immaculate and their foods were to be admired.

Nicole:

And pancakes on the bed with balloons, or rain and pictures, sunlight, ring lights.

Sarah:

Yeah! And I think somewhere along the way, I really got lost in the message that these were just like aspirational images. It was like a TV show. It wasn’t necessarily real life, I really thought that that was what other people were doing. And I wasn’t having it. So through sort of like my journey on social media of really wanting to make it so I started 14 years ago.

Nicole:

Same, same.

Sarah:

Yeah. And I had a toddler and a baby. And I named my blog, the birds papaya after these two little girls and their nickname so as Gemma Bertie and Maya papaya. And that began this journey of me, basically trying to fit in, I’m trying to fit on social media trying to find my way through this world that just seemed so happy and so perfect and so amazing. And I think that there was, I loved it. I loved creating, I loved sharing my voice and all of that. But down the line, as things changed, and Instagram came about it no longer was about the perfect home and the perfect meal and the perfectly dressed kids, the cameras angled towards the person. And I was like 225 pounds. And I don’t say that negatively. That’s just a fact.

Nicole:

It’s just the number that it was just what it was.

Sarah:

And I had always grown up in a bigger body. I remember I’m in Canada, and there wasn’t clothing above a size 12 for anything, and my style used to help drive down to the States. To get clothes to fit me I was very used to like sort of that being like the Funny Girl, the funny friend, there’s an artist called Maddie zom. And she has a song called the funny fat friend, and I weep listening to it, because that was sort of like my journey. But to kind of bring us back to the Instagram thing. I just decided, you know what, like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna lose weight, I’m going to do this whole thing. And I didn’t recognize the differences in my own world in the sense that I was now three times postpartum so I was kind of done having kids.

Nicole:

Wow. Tell us a little bit about your age at this time. Yes, I think that that’s still really relevant in the starting over one of the things we share, and we align, and I want everyone here to know is we’re not, you know, spring chickens, you know, we’re seasoned chickens. But we’re also not, you know, we have a lot of life ahead of us. So a lot of like, he’s in a lot really early. Yeah.

Sarah:

So I was married at 19. I was married at 22. Okay, three babies by 25. And then the whole kind of crux of the Instagram body image, things started around 27-28. And I, by the time I was 30, I had lost 100 pounds, very publicly and with a lot of attention and with a lot of praise, and so much around it towards how accomplished I was, I felt like I was finally getting into that party that I just wanted so so badly to get into for all of those years.

Nicole:

And was your body also your business at this point? Yeah.

Sarah:

Yeah, you can’t separate those two things, because I had only gained a following based off of losing weight. So it actually fed into what would become the disordered eating, what would become the body of session, but also the reality that there was two things I was facing at once. One, the reason I was suddenly very controlling of my body and my weight was because my life was actually in shambles. And it was something that I could hold on. It took me a long time to like, recognize that, it was something I could control. I can control what I ate and what uh, how we moved in a world that was chaos.

Nicole:

And you were getting affirmation for it.

Sarah:

So I’m getting a lot of praise. Yeah, a lot of praise and a lot of validation from other people. But I’m also facing the reality that I actually have more anxiety about my body. And I have more like, I actually don’t love the way I look. And I think that I really, really thought that because I saw so many before and after pictures, and the girl was sad. And then she was happy. Why? I was almost like disappointed and sad that it wasn’t there. And I was becoming more recluse in my life. I was going out less, the whole purpose of this was like, I just want to be able to like, buy clothes and like, go live my life and

Nicole:

Because I suddenly have freedom if I hit these checkmarks and yeah, when I tell you, sir, I’m not even kidding. Same thing around money for me. It was I grew up really poor. And I was I was a bigger girl, too. I think I was 297 at my highest Yeah, and and I also lost 100 pounds but it just as a byproduct. But money was the thing for me over that same timeframe got married at 22 had nothing 24 dollars, you know, grew up sleeping on a couch like all of that, yeah, over that same timeframe to have the kids three, you know, and literally was like, Oh, if I hit this money goal, then I’ll be the happy after, ya know, and then what happens in life, which you know, and y’all listening have heard me say this. It’s amazing, because, you know, I’m a god girl. So like, one of the things that I believe in my belief system is that sometimes God, you know, will give you everything to show you that that is not everything. Yeah. And when you realize that you’re forced to move. So did you have a moment when you were like, Okay, well, I think I have all the things that are the checkmarks I have the house the family, the kids, the quote, unquote, marriage, you know, I have the body. I have the fan, the following people are everyone’s clapping for me, but what am I going to clap for my own damn self? What’s going on here?

Sarah:

Yeah, I felt like I checked off every, like you said, like, checked off every single box on what was supposed to make me happy. And the only things that I was feeling any sort of fulfillment in was like, potentially motherhood, like just the fact that like, I love my kids so much. But even within that realm, I was like, I was just struggling so much like, who am I? What am I? I feel like I checked every single box off, and I’m not happy. It was like, it was hard. And I think that there’s if I’m really going to be honest, I think that I also was very aware that the marriage wasn’t working, I was aware that I was going to leave, I didn’t know how to, I didn’t have anything in my name. I didn’t have I didn’t have a car, didn’t have a job. I was a stay at home mom for 10 years. So I’m like, how am I even going to do this? A lot of fear in the way. But again, I could control my body.

Nicole:

Can I ask? Just because we have a lot of people here. They’re in various stages of starting over. So we have people you know, my friends that are listening, some of them have already started over. Yeah, some are thinking and knowing that they need to start over. And some of them are in the process of starting over right now. And you know, both me and Sarah have lived that in many different ways body parenting families, you name it. And I would love to ask you and I’ll share some of my own because I you know, it’s a pretty vulnerable thing. But when it comes to starting over how did you know, in your marriage, after hitting all these marks, what were some of the things you were feeling that let you know you were unhappy? Were you crying in the market? Were you what did it feel like? Because I want people to know, because this some of them are sitting in it right now. And they don’t know. They’re thinking, No, it’s just one more pound? No, it’s just one more dollar. No, it’s just one more kid. But it’s like, no, I’m telling you right now, if you’re crying in the market, you’re in it, and you gotta get out.

Sarah:

There is a gut feeling that I think that when I say this, and anybody listening, who knows it, it’s something so deep within you that you know, is there and you just need to face it. So I knew that the weight loss wasn’t making me happy, I knew that this marriage was not working. And it came to a point that there was one day. And sort of, to my point earlier, like, I think the reason that I was so driven to lose weight is I also understood that I would be somewhat, quote unquote safer to exist in a smaller body outside the marriage than if I were in a larger one. Like, that’s a really big thing for me to like, unpack. It makes me emotional to think about, but I’m very aware of like, what was driving me. And the fact that I saw safety in a smaller body existing outside of a marriage if I was going to go out with no money and three kids and move in with mom and dad. But I think that I get asked this a lot people will always say like, how did you know? How did you know it was time?

Nicole:

I get that I get that question. Or oh, how do you know what time you have babies? How did you know it’s time to launch your business?

Sarah:

How did you or just how did you know that the marriage wasn’t working? I have yet to meet somebody who’s asked me that question who hasn’t eventually done the thing.

Nicole:

If you’re asking that question. That’s probably sign number one.

Sarah:

Yeah. And it’s hard. You have to let go of a lot of a lot of things like I grew up in a very, like Christian community, like where does divorce fit into my faith? Because I didn’t know where to put a lot of it. But I was thankfully had somewhere to go like my parents, but it did. I said the words I’d like a divorce and it was three years later that I stepped out the door.

Nicole:

Listen And y’all, I want you to know that when you’re ready, you’re ready. And understand that do not feel guilty if you say the words and it takes you three years, because that was when you are ready. And that is the right time. Like that’s so important. People forget that, like, I was so I separated. But we weren’t able to start the financial process until a few months later. And even then, divorce can take years, especially if you have like, you know, finances to really like work through. I can take years. And even in that process, just getting someone to sign a piece of paper during a divorce, if they don’t want to assign it and they’re not emotionally because you’re also not going to do that process at the same rate either. So just because you’re ready doesn’t mean your partner is ready. So there’s so much.

Sarah:

Yeah, there’s a lot in and I am going to read. Of course, I can’t find it right now. You know what, I’m not gonna read it, I’m gonna just gonna talk from the heart about it. When you’re in a path of change, you have been the one to wrestle with it and struggle with it and be that person going through it and everyone else is just going to be, I call it like sort of being in a car crash, the divorce part or the separation is the actual wreck. But nobody was in the car with you all the way through that drive. Yes. And all they’re doing is driving down the highway and rubbernecking at you and saying who caused this? Whose accident was this and who is at fault here? At the end of the day, they keep driving down the highway and you get out of the car and you get into a new one.

Nicole:

And you’re confused. And you’re a little scared about driving again and you’re nervous.

Sarah:

But I think I got so caught up in what other people were going to say and think about me and let me tell you. They said the worst, though that I was the happiest.

Nicole:

People say the worst. Oh, so let’s just talk and I have literally I think three episodes y’all if you didn’t hear. I actually had an entire episode a chat that we had about it called you’re too good for them. Yeah. And it’s because not in the sort of, oh, I’m better than you and you can say what you want. But in that is the number one thing people say whenever there’s divorce. Oh, you thought you were too good. Or you thought you you know,

Sarah:

Yeah try losing 100 pounds and then leaving a marriage, that’s all anyone’s going to say.

Nicole:

Right? Absolutely. I mean, people, oh my gosh, Nicole, you lost so much weight you went you got Hollywood. Some of the weight loss was sheer depression weight, I call it the divorce diet I could not eat. I was so sick and sad. You know, and people don’t even know that when you save things like that. You have no idea of the harm you could be causing? Because you don’t know if they left because there was abuse you’re unaware of that they will never talk about because they have children. Yeah. Or you don’t know if they left because there was a situation where there’s addiction or where there’s, you have no idea what’s going on. And it’s dangerous to be that cavalier.

Sarah:

I’ve never said my why. And that has caused a lot of people to speculate. And not only that, like some of the things that came out were character rip downs, right? And I actually just read a post by Jamila, Jamila. And she said that women are so powerful now that we can’t take away their opportunities. So we are, I don’t want to misquote her but essentially she was saying, we come for character. Yes. So when we can’t tell when we can’t take away anything else, we come for their character. And it’s women who do it to each other. And I think I’ve always remained. And I’ve had to really get through I heard somebody say this once where Marriage is a union of two humans and I’ve repeated this for myself, like humans are more valuable than unions like they are to humans. And until we acknowledge that a marriage is not more valuable than a person. We have to change the way like that we show up and we talk about divorce and we talk about people going through it. But what got me through that whole season was knowing somebody else. I remember another girl who had gotten divorced and everybody talks about it. They talked about what she wore, who she hung out with what was going on. We’re seeing it right now with Gisele Bündchen like everyone says she’s got her jujitsu trainer, like the woman separated. She’s actually allowed to do whatever she wants.

Nicole:

She also has a bunch of babies if y’all think any mama on this planet, yeah is worried about her jujitsu trainer during a divorce with her babies in mind. Absolutely not.

Sarah:

It’s just ridiculous. Of course, nobody’s tracking what Tom is doing.

Nicole:

Not at all because it couldn’t be Tom. Listen, this woman had a whole career and a whole business. She came out of Brazil. Okay, this is a woman who came to America and built a life for herself based on her own back. You know, it’s not this isn’t someone who grew up with some of the benefits of an American lifestyle. And yet people are forgetting that this woman who again, just like most women, has had to start over many times. She is famous and successful in her own right.

Sarah:

But I remember when I had a friend who had gone through divorce, and we all just everyone I was part of it. We all talked about her and everything. And I remembered that nobody had talked about her in quite a while and I just thought if I could just hold on, it’ll get better. Everyone will eventually stop talking about it. This won’t be this forever. So let everyone say what they’re going to say. It doesn’t make it my truth. It doesn’t make it what happened, it doesn’t make my steps wrong. And I sort of went into that, like Survivor Mode of you just keep moving forward. And it’s such a brilliant feeling when you go to this new place of like, okay, weight loss didn’t make me happy. I wasn’t quite there yet. But I remember sitting in my parents house not $1 to my name, now living at their house with my three kids. And there was a sense of peace that came over me when you I was like, I didn’t have nothing. Obviously, I had a lot, but I had nothing on the check marks anymore. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, I was like, but this is so happy. Like, I wish I understood.

Nicole:

It’s a freedom.

Sarah:

Yeah. So everything that we sort of equated to happiness was merely a projection of what other people and you know what maybe other people have had experiences. And there are millions of them, where people went down the checklist, and they found so much joy. But you can’t take that one person’s experience and make it the experience. And I’ve had to rewire the way that I talk about things. When we say like the one or the right choice, it is a one, a right choice.

Nicole:

I mean, I think you’re one of the things I want to call out. There are two things that just sent out from what you said, the first one is that we have an association of starting over as being a negative, yes, sometimes the peace comes when you realize that starting over is the best thing that has ever happened to you. I don’t know how many times I’ve said in because with women, they don’t realize that when you decide, or when you’re put in a position where you have to engage divorce, that you’re already accepting, you’re gonna have to leave everything behind. You’re all you have already said, odds are I could lose everything, or I could have nothing. Am I okay with me and my babies. And if you’re a person of faith for me, like God, like, can I do it with us? And if you accept that there is a peace from knowing that you’ve got nothing sometimes to start over. And that can be a very rewarding feeling. So for those you guys who are afraid of starting over, know that there is joy in starting over as well.

Sarah:

There is a lot of joy, and even like living whenever I say like living with my parents, I was in how what a humbling experience that was, I also have to remind people like that was actually some of the best days of my life. We had so much fun, like I was working multiple jobs, what an opportunity, like, it’s just the angle in which you view it right. And I remember my mom sort of said the same thing. She’s like, I would sort of like, come home a little bit later when she’s like, you have nobody to answer to except for your children and God.

And I was like, Okay, and so even even within like having to be 30. And moving back home and dating again. And all this stuff, my mom was sort of there, prompting and reminding me that in this restart, like one, I owed them nothing, it was an honor for them to support a blessing. Yeah. And I think that that was…

Nicole:

Mom was knowing that we would do the same for our kids, we would do this dream for our kids.

Sarah:

So true. And now I also like really working with or in Canada, we have an organization called mamas for mamas. And they do this, they kind of work within the community lines of like, we’re really only one situation away from needing support. And if we always remember that there’s somebody needing support, and that we can get support and having to pay for it with our dignity, like we are all so close to the line of like just needing to be the person that gets support.

And then we can come back and be the person that gives it. And that’s what I do now. Like I needed support for such a season of my life. And now I just really love reminding people like we don’t get to watch women get out of these situations or get into their start overs. If we’re also not there to like back them up to do it. It’s a collective thing. It’s a community thing. And we have to remove the shame of the checklist and the proper order of things, even with careers because yes, we grew up with parents that my dad’s still working in the same job he got at 19.

Nicole:

And that was the pride was, oh, I have my job as job. They’re gonna bury me in this building. You know what I mean? And frankly, we can even talk about that language in general, when people say, Oh, I’ve been married for 40 years. Oh, I’ve been at this job for 40 years. Oh, I’ve you know, had this home for 30 years. Oh, I this, you know, we’ve put so much weight around the stability of sameness, when they don’t realize how much strength is also in change. So I mean, that is you know, not to knock I mean there’s something to be said for having a marriage for 40 years.

Sarah:

I know! It can’t be the benchmark of success. I looked at my husband We got married in our mid 30s And I said we’re never gonna get like the 50th anniversary and chances are we’re never gonna get that.

Nicole:

I don’t know, I believe in Botox, I believe in miracles you know.

Sarah:

, in the heart Botox in the heart.

Nicole:

I hold that, I receive that for us. You know, like I just found love you know, for the first time and I’m 38 and I’m telling you right now, I’m holding true that we are going to get our 50, 100 years, you know what I mean?

Sarah:

I guess my point to him with like, we’re probably never gonna get like that big anniversary party in that like, but like, this is the greatest love.

Nicole:

And also when I tell you people don’t understand especially like love after divorce, which let’s just transition into right the starting over again, okay that understanding that I understand love on a level now that I don’t care if it cost me everything that I have and everything I will ever make to feel what I feel for five minutes. I truly feel and I say this, I wake up every day and I say this, if I were to die tomorrow, I’ve done it. I’ve done all of it. Like I truly have done. I know there’s more for me yet, I’m shocked at where it could go. But yeah, I felt love. I get it. I understand songs now. I understand the world in a different way. Like I believe and chase after different things. And it’s worth it.

Sarah:

It is worth it. And it’s very different. And I’ve also come into it with a very different. I caught flack for this the first time I said it, but I am in a marriage now where divorce is always an option.

Nicole:

Listen, so when people can we just talk about that for a minute, certain. People don’t realize that when you have been through a divorce already, I’m in a marriage where I’m not a marriage, I’m sorry, putting it out there Lord. Okay, my lips to your ears, Jesus, okay, but I’m in a relationship, right where, you know, we choose each other every day you choose. And we and we choose it every day. And that means that as long as we’re there, that means that we want to be there. And furthermore, if I only have this relationship for 10 years, that means that the next love is going to be even greater. And if that’s possible, I hope I get 10 years with that person, I am open to as many loves and lessons as God wants to send my way. I pray that this is the big one, and I’ll have it forever. But if this one goes out the door, the next one is going to be better. And if that’s the case, and I receive it, whatever God wants me, I want for me, you know.

Sarah:

Absolutely I am 100% in alignment, because there’s something to be said about being in a marriage where you felt like, if Divorce isn’t an option, and we have to work this out, then suddenly you’re like, you’re so trapped in something that is just getting more and more toxic for each other. Yes. And so removing yourself from that. And my husband was also divorced previously as well. And now we’ve had a lot of conversations, I feel, when you know, divorce is always an option. And you wake up every day and you choose marriage. Yes, you behave differently

Nicole:

You behave differently.

Sarah:

You love differently.

Nicole:

There’s a humility in the way that you are. I mean, I can tell you that I’ve been in this relationship now for a year, the growth that I’ve experienced in how I have had to I am I am better. I’m saying I almost pause, but I’m gonna say it out loud. I am better to this man than I was to my husband. Yeah. And it’s not that I wasn’t good to my husband. It’s not that I wasn’t a great wife to my husband. It’s that I am better to this man simply because, not only do I want to make sure I keep him but I also want to make sure I don’t lose myself. And that has changed everything in how I interact. Like we had a fight just two days ago, two days ago, two days ago,

Sarah:

Like isn’t it lovely to fight with somebody that fights to be there?

Nicole:

And fights to be there? Because one of the first things we said, what our fights look like is we’re not going to break up over this. But I need to tell you something that I need. Yeah, like, I’ve never argued that way with a partner. Because the intention is, the problem is in the room, you know, we’re talking about the problem. We’re not taught we’re not going at each other. Yeah. And that is healing. It teaches me how to interact, it shows my babies, what it’s supposed to be like, which means hopefully they won’t repeat what I’ve repeated, you know, and it’s just, it’s an amazing thing. Like, it’s growing me so much. And I’ve seen this in you and the way that you talk about your partner is that like, there is a you know, when people talk about authenticity on the internet, you know, real recognizes real. Yeah, I have been in the marriage before and I’ve looked at your thing when I was in my previous marriage, I was like, that can’t be real. Can’t be real. Because I didn’t have it. I was like, There’s no way. Well, now that I have what I have, I’m like, Ah, I see the little signs. Yeah, that makes sense.

Sarah:

And it’s so fascinating how much like to tie it back into the body conversation. I have to read my favorite. It’s pinned at the top of my account for a reason. But it says I’m 50 pounds heavier than when we met and I think about that sometimes when the doubt creeps in, when I feel unlovable for simply changing. And then I remember the journey we’ve been on, I remember that this change is actually a beautiful one. It’s the first dates, the second dates the 1000s of the more the travel the taste of it, the laughing till we’re sore. It’s cocktails on Friday, curling up on a Sunday, sickness, overworking, joy and healing. It’s having a baby together woven inside my body. It’s 50 pounds of what’s made our family so when I think about it, and the doubt creeps in, I asked myself, what would you rather have this life or be thin? And I smiled at him and I look at our life. It’s not even a question. I would do it all over again.

That’s the case. When we talk about healing, and we talk about starting over and we talk about, you start over but with everything you’ve brought, every lesson you’ve ever learned from every hardship, from every discomfort from every little bit of what you’ve gone through, you start over smarter, wiser, better. And with a whole perspective of “none of this is guaranteed.” Yeah, and every day I choose to be here and every day, and now I live, I don’t live like I don’t love the way I look at my body every day. But gosh, I show up and my marriage isn’t perfect by gosh, I’m here and I choose it. And when I talk about him, there’s something that like happens inside of me, I have this like, it’s almost the same way I feel about my children. Like I love him in a way that like I don’t want anything to ever hurt him. I love him so differently than what he does for me. Like I love him so much. And I love that we I just nothing, not that nothing ever made sense. And I think that it took being alone and figuring out what I wanted, but to find somebody to meet me for who I am and being able to show them that and that was chaotic at first that first year.

Nicole:

Oh girl. That’s the other thing that people don’t realize, when someone meets you in the valley, you sometimes you’re like, I don’t know if I’ll ever see the mountaintop again.

Sarah:

Oh yes I was messy. I was jealous. I was scared

Nicole:

Because it’s all the triggers, you know, even being loved well can be a trigger. People don’t realize, like when he loves me well, when is the other shoe just the other day, like we had our first like I said, our real fight like about something and I was like, Oh my word. Like this might be it, you know? And it’s like no, like it’s not it’s that we’re talking about it in a healthy way. And we’re practicing this skill set of having good conversation around issues like and the the way we were resolved, let me know, oh, if we can do this, we can do the next one, we can always keep coming back together by choice, you know, healing, you know, and even now, like, you know, you guys had your had a child together, I’m hoping to have more children as well. And when that happened, you know, talk about new triggers, you know, they mean new things because you had children in a previous relationship. Now you’re with a different partner. And you have to learn how to pair it with a different partner. Yeah, I don’t know about you. But one of the pains that I struggle with right now is that I am in a partnership that shows me how much I lacked before. And I’m trying not to beat myself up, or even mourn or grieve what I didn’t give myself in my previous relationship. Yeah, so seeing, you know, you’ve got the cutest little person, her personality is unreal, like sweetest, vibrant little baby and raising her with a partnership where you’re wholer, you know, you’re more put together and you have a partner who’s present like and what is that like in terms of teachers try not to think about it, how it was or be present, or what do you do?

Sarah:

So I found myself in the happiest place of my life when it came to everything that was going on was in a good place of my body. We had a great marriage. And now we’re pregnant with this baby and I fell into the worst depression. I’ve never been depressed before. And that was the first time so I was pregnant when I found depression and what I revealed in the therapy that I had to go through. I went I had basically there’s like, postnatal depression I had prenatal depression. So I went to a perinatal therapist, and we walked through the fact that I was also placing a lot of fear in my new experiences repeating old ones. A lot of them being I was a stay at home mom, who was like dinner was on the table at five o’clock. Same now I’m like a career person. I’m like, am I gonna have to give this all up? Is it all going to? Is everything bad gonna happen again? Like, is this going to be the end of my marriage.

Nicole:

When is the other shoe to drop? Like, I just learned one way to do this, right? Yes. Now I have to shake this up with things that I know caused additional conflict before. Am I going to lose this beautiful thing?

Sarah:

Or just losing myself? So I remember having so many conversations with Shane about it. And he just would ask me time and time again, like just don’t place old experiences on our new one. And I was and that was a lot for me because I’m a girl who didn’t even want to watch a movie with him if he went and saw it at a movie theater with a different listen, I was like, I don’t want to hear about it. I don’t want to see this movie. If you’ve seen it and you’ve held hands with him. I don’t want it and he goes you know who misses out on an opportunity when that happens? You do. I don’t. You do.

Nicole:

What is it like having a partner that you love and have to listen to? Because you know, they’re saying it out of love? Do you know how annoying that is? Like I know you love me and this is why you’re telling me but stop trying to stop it. I don’t want to hear this right now.

Sarah:

He’s so emotionally like ahead of the curve of me. But you know, it’s so funny this actually yesterday I found a screenshot of an argument. I don’t know why I screenshotted it, probably because I was catty and sending it to my girlfriends.

Nicole:

Evidence! I’m gonna keep this forever and we can talk about.

Sarah:

Yes. What I found an argument that the him and I had he we weren’t living together. We were just dating and he had gone out after a volleyball game and hadn’t texted me to tell me that he was doing that. And I was very upset about it. And I read these things. And I was almost embarrassed. I was so embarrassed. I was like, who is this person? Or and I also was like, but instead of instead of like staying in that shame cycle for a second, I was like, but look at you now like I would I would write did you go out afterwards, I hope you would the best time.

Nicole:

Because shame doesn’t serve you day. And I would have to extend ourselves grace, right? Like, he was in that moment was still learning how to be secure in the relationship. So learning how to be secure and self and being loved well, so it’s like, you know, looking back at that pass and saying to yourself, hey, this may be different. I may be repeating stuff. But it’s only because I’m relearning and I know better

Sarah:

And, you know, patient with me, I but he also wasn’t like so patient where he just like, let everything go. He was like, I like that you’re making me feel this. And I’m feeling like, I’m not being trusted. This is why I mean, and it was so funny, like reading back on these and like, oh, gosh, this man, really held it together.

Nicole:

He was really holding it together.

Sarah:

This is an irrational, human, wild beast. And you have just like, done your best with it. I was it’s so fascinating. Because we have such a calm natured relationship now. And we rarely fight. And when we do, I always, we always come back to this core of like, Thank God, we fight for this, though. God has days that we stick in it for each other, because we just care so deeply. Yeah. But yeah, it’s a really beautiful thing. And I think that something is really important about the whole, like, start over. And everything is like, when you start to talk about it, though, when you talk about it with your peers, a lot of times what people will say to you is, marriage is hard. And I want to remind everybody is when we say that, it’s like saying, it’s like working at Wendy’s and working in a corporate job and saying jobs are hard. Your jobs are hard for very different reasons.

Nicole:

Let’s not oversimplify.

Sarah:

You can not just blanket statement things about marriage, because it’s again, two humans in a union. Everything about that situation is very different than anything you’ve ever had. And every single time I tried to talk to people, and I tried to voice that things weren’t good. Everyone just said to me, Well, you know, marriage is hard.

Nicole:

Marriage is hard, they’ll say, Yeah, it’s hard or like, what did you expect? And I’m like, you know, if someone’s telling you that they’re being physically abused, like, that’s hard. If someone’s telling you that they’re being emotional, is that hard? Understand that like, I’m not minimizing either one. It’s, it’s so how are we going to sit here? And just oversimplify it to say, and the thing one of the things that a friend said to me that changed my life, it shouldn’t be that hard.

Sarah:

It shouldn’t be that hard. Or when you talk about marriage is hard. What are you saying? Because when I see marriages hard now, I’m talking about the trash, who’s taking out the trash this week. And that’s the most beautiful thing that I’ve ever experienced in my life is that all we’re fighting about, is that we’re not fighting but our character, we’re not fighting about big, bad, ugly things. Marriage isn’t hard for anything more than like these, that cohabiting with another again, two humans in a union, there’s going to be difficulty.

But when you start to like flex the muscle of like, I need to start talking about my, you know, my unhappiness here, I need to start talking about what’s next for me, you’re going to be met with resistance. Yes. Because you have also made them uncomfortable, of course. And when you make other people uncomfortable, they want to pacify that feeling for themselves as well. There were a lot of people that had to deal with the reality of my divorce as well.

Nicole:

Oh, my goodness. I mean, I’m getting divorced publicly. Yeah. And in that context, I mean, I’ve literally received messages of grief for my marriage, you know, and I appreciate people being able to see me in the moment and say, I’m really sorry that you were going through this or are going through this. But it’s another thing when people you know, I had messages that you know, are borderline inappropriate, where it’s kind of like, I can’t imagine not seeing guys together. Yeah, I’m so sad to hear about this. I’m almost in tears.

And it’s one of those things where I can appreciate and understand it’s not, you know, again, with divorce, you don’t always tell anyone, congratulations, because you don’t know what the context is, you know, but just like with weight loss.

Sarah:

Although that was my favorite thing that I received. Congratulation, I was like, oh, thank you.

Nicole: Absolutely.

Sarah:

I finally recognized the work.

Nicole

For sure. I will tell you people who know me and know more about the relationship or like, I’m proud of you, you know.

Sarah:

You wouldn’t say it, just wouldn’t say it. Just like with your body. You don’t say congratulations, because maybe I’m saying or maybe you don’t know what’s going on.

Nicole:

But it’s one of those things that I think if any of us are talking to someone who’s going through divorce or experiencing ourselves or are wondering sort of what will people think and what will people say the answer is they will say something, it will run the full gamut. You will overwhelmingly likely be more supported. And like you’ll find support in the right places you know like and I have a whole chat that we had about it where I was like all you need is one good friend, one good therapist and a little bit of faith. You know, and if you have all those things you’ll make it through, because the only way through it is through it. Yeah. And on the other side absolutely resides better. And during the process, you can have joy.

Sarah:

You can have so much joy.

Nicole:

And that is the recipe of starting over. And Sarah, like, you are always so candid. You’re always so honest and so vulnerable. I’m sure you hear that all the time, like you’ve been in the internet.

Sarah:

I don’t have any other choice anymore. When you work this hard to start over, I gotta cut the shit.

Nicole:

Absolutely. I’m like, take it as it is. This is all of me. You gone get it. Yeah. And part of it also is just, you know, it’s amazing because people think that the internet is about these curated images all the time, but they don’t recognize that the only way to really enjoy your life is to be candid and a little messy about it and show people what you’ve got. Because then you can actually enjoy it. There isn’t a happier state of being than truth.

Sarah:

That’s true.

Nicole:

And when you are in a marriage that is rooted in truth, even if it’s the messy truth, when you’re in a body that’s rooted in truth, even if it’s a messy truth, if you’re at a parenting that rooted in truth, even some messy truth, there is joy, no matter what. Yes, Sarah, tell us where we can eat up more of this lesson. Join the journey with you. You’re such a beautiful, beautiful writer, where we can read more of the inspiration we need and print it out and put it on post it. Where can we find you? How can we keep supporting and loving you?

Sarah:

So the BirdsPapaya on Instagram is mostly my wheelhouse and then I have the Papaya podcast as well. Where I’m gonna I’m gonna grill you on some very I don’t know where we’re going, but we’re gonna go there. Yeah, so you can find me those places. I live everything out and kind of real time, my stories is where most people are. So yeah, like, come find me. I love meeting new people. I spend half of every working day in my DMs and comments. Community is everything to me. So any new community members are just like, just the best and I’m always so anybody who’s willing to come along on an imperfect journey of going through change and coming out the other side is very, very welcomed.

Nicole:

Oh, y’all if you love me, if we’re a thing, I’m telling you Sarahs our people, go follow her. Stay in touch with her. We will all be better for it. Thank you so much for being here.

Sarah:

Thank you so much for having me.

Nicole:

Hey friends, so I don’t know if you can hear the smile s slash giggle in my voice, if you will. This is a very, incredibly special chat that we’re having. And I will say that, you know, it’s still clean and polite and all that stuff, but we will be talking about relationship things that are of the adult persuasion, and frankly, I have a guest that I have no idea what they’re gonna say. So it’s going to be exciting, it’s going to be fun, but just in case you got some tiny ears in the room, this may be a headphone chat.

So, friends, as you know, I have been on quite the journey over the past two years, particularly around starting over in a relationship. I was married for 12 years, and separated and began the divorce journey two years ago. And now I am hardly on the other side of it. Who knows if you ever really are, but I am in love. And now that love has returned, it has changed my life. And as you know, I’ve shared all about how I’ve been on the healing journey and how I met someone new and I’ve shared a little bit about who they are. And if you follow me around social media on Instagram at NicoleWalters, you had an opportunity to experience the big reveal, if you will, where I shared his name. And I am so excited because today I actually get to introduce you to him. And he’s joining us for our chat. So if you’re just following along, I am so excited for you to meet my misterfella, Alex.

Alex:

Hello.

Nicole:

Hi, Alex. I’m glad you’re here today. Hi. Is it weird for me to call you Alex on the thing?

Alex:

That’s my name.

Nicole:

But it’s just we always talked about how there’s a thing, you know, in relationships. You don’t call the person by their name name.

Alex:

I mean, it’s true, but we can’t be on here like, Baby this, baby that. .

Nicole:

No. Yeah, we can’t be unless we’re having a fight. BABE.

Alex:

Then it’s Alex.

Nicole:

Alex, okay, enough cuteness. Okay, so no, y’all, we are excited to chat with you. Because I had so much feedback and so many people in the DMs who are like, what? Plot twist! Who is this guy, and we have news to share. So before we get to the news, I wanted to start off by, you guys have heard my story of how we met, our first date, all the things, and I wanted to give you a chance to hear from him. So I’m going to interview this fella. I have no idea. Literally no idea what to say. He goes rogue. So,

Alex:

I’ll try to keep it. Keep it keep it, keep it together.

Nicole:

Your laughs make me uncomfortable. I know what I mean. I know don’t say I know that’s uncomfortable. I’m like deep. I’m like What is he about to say? So I’m going to interview him so that you guys can meet him and then we’re going to do a couple of cute questions. We’ll see how that goes. You know those cheesy things that people do but you know so you guys can learn a little bit more about how I’ve managed to land this fella. And then of course, we will tell you our big news. So the first thing, people always want to know how we met. And what’s interesting was when I started talking about you, and people were trying to kind of like figure out who you were on social media. I told them as one of those sort of many clues that they’d already met you. And plot twist of the year if you guys have been following along on the podcast, Alex was a guest earlier in the season.

Alex:

Yeah, I was on earlier in the season. And that was really fun.

Nicole:

It was really fun. And what you guys may not know was at that time we were already dating. That’s right into dating and produce right now. It’s like, all these things. So, um, so yeah, so we were already dating we, how many dates was it by then? It wasn’t a lot it was We’d only been together for three months, two months ish, something, something like that. Something like that. And so I would say it’s a couple of dates.

On our first day, I described in detail how I wasn’t sure when I first came in. I was like, I don’t know, if I’m feeling it. I didn’t even really feel like being on a date and I have like the best energy. And then I almost left in the middle of it. But whenever I tell you about that, you said that you didn’t feel that energy at all.

Alex:

Not at all. Not at all. Because when we were on a first date, I like the vibes were good. I mean, maybe just because you’re Nicole Walters, you’re just such a good speaker. And your energy is always so positive. You’re delightful. So on this side of things, I was like, this dates going great, like we’re in good conversation. There’s not a dead moment. Yeah.

Nicole:

Okay, so let’s go. Let’s go back to move forward. So I always told everyone that I wasn’t looking for anyone, like I went out in the dating pool. I was like, oh, there’s pee in the water. And then I came back and I was like, I’m not doing this. And then I kind of like started tiptoeing back in. And I mentioned that I was online, and I was kind of looking around. But nothing really committed, like date here, date there, but right. What about you? I don’t, I mean, we met online, right? Like, that was kind of our initial thing, but we didn’t spend a lot of time there. So what was it like for you? Were you online looking for someone?

Alex:

So um, yeah. I wasn’t really looking for someone per se. I mean, I was just, you know, trying to see what was out there again, you know.

Nicole:

What do you mean again?

Alex:

Well, I mean, I was in something. I was getting out of something that I was in for, I don’t know, year and a half ish. And then once I was out of that, then I was like, Okay, let me kind of read date or let me relook what’s out there and see so I got on originally got on Tinder.

Nicole:

Y’all should see right now. He looks like he is sweating bullets. Are you nervous?

Alex:

No, no, no. So originally, so originally, I got Tinder not Tinder. Yeah, originally got back on Tinder because I don’t know what to use for y’all. Well, if you don’t remember, I was on Tinder. I was with somebody for years. For about five years.

Nicole:

You’re a serial monogamist, love a relationship.

Alex:

I was with somebody for about five years and I met her on Tinder.

Nicole:

No, you didn’t. I didn’t know that. Yeah. Oh, I didn’t even know people use Tinder like that.

Alex:

Well, that was when it was new and cool.

Nicole:

I don’t know about that. Tinder to me is like the Walmart to the target. Like I can’t Tinder I can’t I feel like I feel like it’s for the young folk that are looking for a particular situation that I don’t have the flexibility for.

Alex:

That’s what it is now. It is now and I didn’t know like there’s nothing going on in Tinder.

Nicole:

And so Oh, really? It’s not I know. It’s not really on Tinder any. So I don’t know. But everything isn’t aren’t all the apps kind of like Tinder now they all work differently. Oh, I thought they were all like if they have swipe left or swipe right. That’s what Tinder is.

Alex:

No, they all work differently, which is why then I talked to my buddy and he said that he had success some success on Bumble and that he had met somebody he like, loves and is really into and stuff.

Nicole:

Is he still with that person?

Alex:

I think he is.

Nicole:

Oh, find out!

Alex:

And I was like, You know what, let me give Bumble a try. And Bumble works differently because the male cannot initiate the conversation. It’s the female that has to start it.

Alex:

That’s what I liked. It was like I really,

Nicole:

Oh you liked that!

Alex:

Oh, it made my job so much easier. Interesting. I never know how to start.

Nicole:

Oh, really? Awkward. You’re so extrovert. I’m surprised that you say that.

Alex:

Yeah it’s like what do you say?

Nicole:

That’s so funny. What’s weird about that is that I know that when I got onto Bumble, I liked having the conversation but the number one reaction I got from anyone that I like was like, oh, maybe I’ll say something to this person was, Oh, you didn’t just say like, Hi. Or what are you? Why D which means what are you doing? That’s what the youth say.

Alex:

It’s not It’s what you’re doing. Oh, it’s like what you’re doing.

Nicole:

I thought it was like, What are you doing? Yeah. See, that’s I mean to do it. I’m not that hip. So, but yeah, when you got my message, and you were like, she’s a catch.

Alex:

Immediately, yes. I saw your first, I was like, I want to marry that girl.

Nicole:

Aww. You’re like, no that’s not the move. Okay, so what happened?

Alex:

But, yeah, I got your message. And I clearly think you’re an extroverted person. You seem fun. Your pictures, you know.

Nicole:

What did I say? Guys? Let me see. Let me do you still have the app?

Alex:

Oh, my God. No, I do. Oh, did you know that?

Nicole:

I just didn’t delete it. Let me see if I even have it. I remember that our first message was that I reached out to and I just said something like, Hey, so I just moved here. And, you know, I’m loving living in LA. But, you know, just making friends are kind of crazy. And I see that we matched. So what are you into the standard? I think I said what are the standard questions people say like, where are you in the city? Because that can break or break a friendship.

Alex:

Yeah. And where’s your favorite taco? Where’s your favorite taco spot? When’s the last time that you had rain? Because you need it?

Nicole:

Right. Yeah, like typical California things. Like I’m a total nerd, but you responded to it?

Alex:

Yeah, I did. I did. Because I like banter. And I feel like we have good banter. And that’s, like, always a great thing. But it was like, right away. You know, it just felt immediate, that we had that. And that was really cool. And then fast forwarding, you know, we went on our first date.

Nicole:

Pretty quickly. I wouldn’t say that we spent a lot of time talking. And I think this is important for those you guys who are trying to wonder how dating goes like, we didn’t spend…

Alex:

Well, when you first met, especially because when you first sent me my message I had COVID.

Nicole:

Yeah. And I was I was not trying. I was like, I’m trying to do this, right.

Alex:

We matched and you were like, you trying to hang out. And then I was like, um, I’d love to, but like, I got COVID.

Nicole:

Yeah. And I was like, Okay.

Alex:

And then I was trying to like push conversations. I was like, I gotta push conversation through like the next 10 days through quarantine, so you have momentum by the time we see each other.

Nicole:

Because you don’t want me to fall off.

Alex:

I don’t want you to fall off. Oh, yeah, I wanted to try to keep it going. And so anyway, when we went on our first date, and we got sushi, and it was just kind of like a halfway point between where we were. And it just, it was just a really good date, I had good feelings about it. I know you clearly seem to have different thoughts.

Nicole:

So just to be clear to your face. It’s not that I might fit your face, like you know, like, to your face and in front of my friends and everything. It’s not that I didn’t like you. I just You were so different. I’ve said this, like all my girlfriends are saying now they heard me say this already. Like I already said that I wasn’t sure about an extrovert. You know what I mean? Like, I just wasn’t sure about someone who’s extroverted. I wasn’t sure about someone you were just so different from I been striking out because honestly, I was dating people who were like my ex, you know, like, people were introverted, people who were quiet people who were, you know, just had a different personality, you know, because I felt that that was what I needed.

But that didn’t really make sense. If, you know, a struck out there. Right. So when I you just seemed like a lot to me. And I was like, I think that the both of us would be too much.

Alex:

I am a lot, you’re not wrong.

Nicole:

That’s true, too. You know, and I just didn’t know if that would work. You know, I don’t know, but our a lot-ness matches in the right areas.

Alex:

Yeah, it does. So yeah, I mean, it was just like, good conversation. And it went really well. And then, I mean, after that date, then we spent the next three days.

Nicole:

Well, that will first date. I think. When we parted ways.

Alex:

We parted ways. And then you texted me on the way home.

Nicole:

Oh, oh, we’re saying? Oh, yeah.

Alex:

Oh, yeah. We’re saying Oh, my God, because it went cuz you texted me on the way home. You finally peaced out and then and then you text me on the way home. I was like, Oh, she liked me.

Nicole:

So what I said just so you guys all know because he’s making it seem like a thing. It was a thing. It was a thing, so we parted ways. And I’ll just be honest, like, like he gave me a kiss. And I was like, huh, like I felt like a little thing, I guess I don’t know. And when I was driving home, I was like, how weird is that? Like, just because…

Alex:

You said I didn’t expect that.

Nicole:

That’s what I texted you. I said, I didn’t expect that. Like it just caught me off guard and I didn’t expect it.

Alex:

And I felt the same thing. And it also caught me off guard, because I wasn’t really looking for you know, anything, either. I was like, let me go see what’s up with her. Yeah, you know. And then after that, it was the next three days. We talked on the phone for six hours.

Nicole:

It was literally it was that night like, I like we got back to the like, I think he checked to see if it got at home or something like that. We talked for hours. And I was like, yeah, and then we stayed up until probably like, 3am-4am. Yeah.

Alex:

The next two days. Same thing. Same thing. Yeah. And I was like, you know, it’s definitely may be different for you because you’re a good talker. But I’m a pretty decent talker, too. Like, you don’t mean it’s a rare thing when you can do have conversations go for six hours.

Nicole:

Yeah. Well, and it didn’t feel like that.

Alex:

It didn’t feel like that. And it was again, no dead space. It was just fun. It was just like all this thing. I was like, what is happening here?

Nicole:

Yeah. Okay, so what were you telling your friends while this was happening?

Alex:

Um, I was telling my friends while I was telling my roommate at the time. Yeah. Shout out Matt. What’s up, bro?

Nicole:

What happened?

Alex:

While I was telling him that I just like met this amazing girl. And it went so well. And I was like, I like it was like after the first day, or the second time we got off the phone. And I was just like, I’m gonna be with this girl. I was like, I’m gonna make sure you know, I’m gonna do everything I can. You’re like, I’m gonna be with this girl, I like her.

Nicole:

That’s very sweet. Y’all just let you know. So just a little side note, he had no idea who I was like.

Alex:

Oh, no clue. I remember having a conversation. messaging that was like, she said she did something in entertainment.

Nicole:

Yeah. Yeah, I was like, I’m kind of an entertainment. Like, I’m in the industry. You’re in the industry. That doesn’t mean anything in LA.

Alex:

Nothing. Yeah, I was like, Well, what part of the industry and I was like, I remember saying something cheesy, like, so cheesy. I was like, with a smile like that you should be on TV. And little bit and little did I know.

Nicole:

She’s like, Oh, I was like, I do that sometimes.

Alex:

I’m like, Who are you?

Nicole:

Yeah. And I was like, Well, you know, I work in finance. And I have like a, you know, business. I just kind of kind of left it at that.

Alex:

I mean, for weeks. Yeah.

Nicole:

I know, you were like, what’s your Instagram? And I was like, I don’t really do social.

Alex:

I didn’t even have her on Instagram. I had the couple pictures on Bumble.

Nicole:

Yeah, like, was that weird for you?

Alex:

It was weird. I mean, I was like, clearly you did something cool. I didn’t know what it was right.

Nicole:

You know what’s weird. It’s because one being in LA, you just want to be mindful. Because everyone also, the other issue I had with you was the fact that you’re in the industry. You know, like, I was like, I don’t know, if I want to be with someone who is a professional musician, and works in, you know, I mean, you work on movies, you work on albums, you know, and I just, you have to be so careful, you know, to make sure that people aren’t going to think because that you’re going to leverage your relationship. You know, like, I wanted someone who, I wasn’t looking for anything serious, you know, but I did want to make sure that I was with someone that I could have a good time with and feel safe. You know?

Alex:

Right. And well, that’s always been my thing. I mean, ever since high school, too, is that like, I don’t really care who you are. It’s like, if you’re cool, you’re cool. And if you’re not, and, you know, I’ve met plenty of connected people.

Nicole:

It’s such a non-thing for you. And just, absolutely, I just didn’t know. And also, you’re a local, so like you grew up here. So literally, you’re not affected by any of the things but all that and also you have your own career in your own right. I think that’s the other part too, is like, I didn’t realize that sometimes being with someone who is in your industry actually works really well. Like it seems it works really well for us.

Alex:

Yeah, because neither of us have conventional schedules. And so it’s like it says we don’t have a nine to five. It’s like we do get to spend. I mean, as busy as we are, we do get to spend an odd amount of time together.

Nicole:

That is true, like hours a day. Like I think more than most couples because it’s not like that nine to five situation.

Alex:

We’re still working doing our thing.

Nicole:

Yeah, but then again, the trade off is if you’re on tour, and I’m on a speaking gig like we could be apart for a week or two weeks or whatever else. I mean, I guess it’s kind of it probably evens out, honestly.

Alex:

I guess I guess.

Nicole:

Yeah, so fast forward. When did you know after how many dates, did you know, okay, I want her to be my girlfriend or we’re doing a thing for real. I mean, you said he knew on the first thingy.

Alex:

Well, I knew I knew I wanted to be like with you. You know, I was definitely in denial a little bit.

Nicole:

No not, denial?

Alex:

I don’t know what the word is like. I guess a little resistant.

Nicole:

Why were you resistant?

Alex:

Well, because I guess after my last thing, I was like, there was part of me where I was like, I really like this girl. I want to like be with her. And I want to see what happens here. And then there was the other side of me that was like, you know, I was in something not that long ago. And I was like, I want to be single for three years. Yeah. So just do my thing. Say do my thing and hustle and work really hard for sure. focused and you know, all that stuff. And but it just developed into what it developed into.

Nicole:

Well, let’s talk about that. So at what point are you like,

Alex:

Tell me more about that!

Nicole:

Stop acting like you know me So at what point were you like, okay, that’s me, my girlfriend?

Alex:

I forgot how long into when I asked you, I forgot to I don’t know, I think it might have been like a month?

Nicole:

Yeah, it was probably around then.

Alex:

I think we’d like dated like, pretty consistently for like a month. And then I asked you like that party.

Nicole: Yeah.

Alex:

Yeah, I was at a party and then just had a moment alone. Yeah, I officially asked you, pop that question.

Nicole:

Gosh, yeah, it wasn’t that question Yeah, okay. And when you asked me to be your girlfriend, were you thinking, just sort of okay, she’s just gonna be my girlfriend for a while, like or because I you know, for my friends who are listening, I didn’t grow up where you like, have my parents are African very traditional. You don’t have dating and you don’t do that. The person you bring home to meet your parents, that’d be the person you gonna marry, it’s like that.

So, I mean, I pretty much never dated anyone for longer than six months, maybe, you know, before it was either not a thing at all, or I married them. The only two boyfriends ever had one of them. Not with the other one I married right and stayed with her for 12 years, you know? So, for you, you know, like, when you ask someone to and this is just me. I’m just asking a general question. When you are asking someone to be your girlfriend, what were what was your intention behind that? Because it was so new. Like, I was still I think back to that time. There’s so much you still didn’t know.

Alex:

I’m sure. But like, I wouldn’t have asked you that unless I had intentions to like, be with you. Okay, and just you.

Nicole:

I appreciate your intention.

Alex:

That was my intention.

Nicole:

I appreciate your attention. Received.

Alex:

Received. Yes, good.

Nicole:

So fast forward. We’ve not been together for a year ish. And it’s been good. I’d like to think. Yeah, you can. Nodding guys. That pause was really long. He was nodding I swear. Oh, my gosh, but a lots happened to me. It’s been amazing.

Alex:

No, it’s been amazing. It has been an eventful year.

Nicole:

It has, so much has happened. I mean, I think that I guess I’ll ask pretty honestly, what’s it like dating someone who has an ex from divorce? You know what I mean? I’ve got that’s one element. What’s that like for you? Because there are a lot of devotees out there who are like, how do they find their young hot tenderoni?

Alex:

Is that what I am?

Nicole:

Yes tenderoni. Y’all, for the aunties out there, he doesn’t even understand that reference. Bless his heart. Go ahead.

Alex:

What’s that like? I mean, it definitely presents its difficulties.

Nicole:

Challenges, sure.

Alex:

It’s, it’s weird. It’s not hard on me. It’s hard on me because it’s hard on you. You know what I mean? And I hate seeing how the whole process and how it affects you. And in turn that affects me more than anything.

Nicole: Sure.

Alex:

You know what I mean? Like, I don’t really care as much that you’re going through a divorce. I mean, I remember when you told me about it. I was like, like, hey, yeah, you actually told me what was going. I was like, okay, yeah, you literally, like you could have just told me.

Nicole:

Yeah, because it was so complex. It was just, I mean, there’s even a level and I’ve talked about it on it of like acceptance that you have to go through yourself. And it’s hard to say because divorce, I think has such a feeling of rejection attached to it. And here I am, you know, I found somebody that I really want and that seems really want me and I’m coming off of something where I wasn’t wanted, you know, and so it’s really hard to say out loud, hey, by the way, like you’re taking something that someone cast off like, I hope you’re okay with that. You know what I mean? And so it was it was it’s hard to say that out loud and I do appreciate that you were so not just understanding about it, you’re pretty enthusiastic about like so I’m gonna be first in line then Right? That’s what’s happening right now. Like that’s the energy you’ve always treated me with like, Yay for me, you know, I don’t need you out there. I appreciate that. But, ya know, that was that was tough and it’s hard to hear that it’s hard for you, but…

Alex:

Yeah, when I see how the whole process affects you, you know, you get down or stressed or whatever it is,

Nicole:

Yeah, divorce is hard.

Alex:

You know, and I love you so much. So I don’t want to see you in pain or, you know, dealing with stuff.

Nicole:

I’m glad that you’re able to help with that. Yeah, thanks. And then, also, obviously, I’m a mom, and I have so many, you know, friends that are moms or, you know, have other attachments and things of that sort that they’re like, oh my gosh, no one’s gonna want me because of this. So what’s that like, for you? You know, Is that where you can be honest, you know, like, I know, we’ve talked about it, but you know, I think people need to hear what is it really like for you?

Alex:

Sure. Okay, so when you told me about how they came to be in your life, I mean, obviously, I was like, who are you? Like, you’re this amazing person, like all this stuff? Like who does that? You know, like, who does all that?

Nicole:

I am strange.

Alex:

Nobody does that So, but it was amazing. And so, being totally honest, on this side of things, you know, stepping into a situation? Yeah.

Nicole:

Like, did you ever think you would date someone who had children?

Alex:

Oh, God, absolutely not.

Nicole:

Had you ever? No?

Alex:

No, I always said that I wouldn’t.

Nicole:

So you outright were like, that’s not something I want.

Alex:

Right, it was just like, I do not want to date somebody with kids. I’m not ready to step into that role. Like, you know, like a stepdad roll like whatever it may be sure. I wasn’t really ready. But I think there was some comfort in the fact that they’re like, older.

Nicole:

Yeah, that’s true. It was easier to understand what you were coming into, because they were fully formed in a way, I guess, you know.

Alex:

Yes, they’re fully formed. A couple of them are out of the house.

Nicole:

That’s true. It’s not like, so when I say three kids, it’s true. Or you’re not walking into three kids. But I do want all my friends who are listening to understand that, I want you to know that my situation has its own levels of complexity. So if you’re one of you know, my friends who’s on here saying, Well, I have three kids under the age of six, who’s gonna take me. Somebody will take you as you are, because I have a very complex situation and bless it, Alex still takes it.

Alex:

And I have, I mean, I have friends who have married women with two previous kids or three, or like, whatever it may be, because they just love that person. So it’s totally possible, you know, different strokes for different folks, you know, whatever. But, um, for me, in this particular situation, it just did make it easier. That couple were out of the house. And then there’s Ally who Yeah, 11 and she’s so awesome.

Nicole:

She is.

Alex:

She’s the best, Ally is like the best. She’s so funny. And she’s smart. And she’s like witty and we can like talk trash.

Nicole:

Yeah, you guys have your own angle, and it’s really cool. And you’re good with her. You know, like for the for the people who followed me for some time and call themselves internet aunties. You know, and you are have been part of our extended family for so long. Just so you know, Alex is really good with her like you are, you are very, very good with drop offs and pickups and colds and flu and you’re so attentive.

Alex:

I mean, it has been a learning process because…

Nicole:

Oh talk about that.

Alex:

I mean, I’ve never Dad-ed before.

Nicole:

Yeah. sure, sure.

Alex:

So it is kind of stepping into that dad role.

Nicole:

There is no in between. I think that a lot of times people think that, oh, well, you know, I’ll hold all the weight or whatever. But the truth is, if this person is going to be in your life, you know, it’s just really difficult to have them there and pretend especially if you’re a single mom pretend like there isn’t some element of Hey, um, you know, I have to step out of the room, can you put dinner down for them? You know, like, there’s just no way to pretend like they’re not their babysitter.

Alex:

There just was definitely a moment where I realized that I was like, very in love with you. And I wanted to be with you regardless of you know, not regardless of what that came with. But I mean, whatever it came with you, like I welcomed all of it. You know if I could be with you, you know? So I was happy. I was happy to step into this role, especially because she’s such a cool kid. I mean, I lucked out. I mean, if I you know what I mean? Out of all the people dating someone with a kid, you know, I got to be with you, who’s like this amazing person. And then with Ali, who’s that super cool kid, she’s responsible. She doesn’t argue. She does all our homework. She goes to bed on time.

Nicole:

I mean, she’s better than either one of us was.

Alex:

Which I guess is sure, I guess kind of leads into the…

Nicole:

Oh, the news. Right, right. Right. Right. Well, before we get to the news, I love it. You gotta you gotta just keep it going. I love you so much. love so much. About love, right? I think another question that always comes up, because these are also based on questions that people always ask, like, they’re wanting to know, like, Well, what about with kids? And what about with this and all of that, you know,

Alex:

And it’s hard, but honestly, it’s, it’s been so good for me also, like, I mean, you know, being a musician, we have late nights, crazy schedules, whatever. I have never woken up so early, so consistently, when I was a week straight, and I woke up at 7am. Yeah, I was like, Who knew there was so much time in the day.

Nicole:

And you’re gonna use it all because that kid is coming home in a couple of hours.

Alex:

Oh, my God, when I got, I got so much done that week, and I’ve been in, you know, lately, I’ve just been so productive, so much more productive, because there’s just so much more time in the day, because I’m kind of, I mean, I’m forced to get up earlier, but now, but now I can’t even sleep in that late anymore. Because I’m like, I’m gonna lose out all this time. It’s just a different mentality of now I don’t have the availability of, let me do some work. And then I’ll take a break and watch an episode on Netflix or, you know, whatever, play a game on my phone while I take a break or something like, I don’t have time to do any of that anymore. And it’s so much better for me.

Nicole:

Sure. Kids change you!

Alex:

I mean, your days are now planned to the tee, you know, we sit down to do calendars all the time.

Nicole:

But it’s all based around sort of what’s going to help us all move forward, what’s good for the kid, what’s you know, I mean, she’s, it’s weird, it’s like, your kid is not the center of attention, but they are the priority, you know, so it’s like this sort of, you know, interesting dynamic that happens, and I just am really grateful that one, I even get to have your partnership, you know, because I will not lie, it is so much easier, you know, with a partner, especially if you have the right partner, or you have a good partner and a willing partner and someone who wants both of you. You know, I’m trying to not get teary about it, but you know, it’s just very meaningful. So that on the other side. What’s it like dating and this is like, another question, I get a lot, you know, what’s it like dating someone who makes so much more money than you? Because that’s also a big thing. You know, people ask all the time, they say, Nicole, I struggle to find a partner, because, you know, I make a million dollars, or I am always the higher earner, you know, and the thing I accepted a long time ago for me was, it’s very unlikely that I will meet a billionaire. Do you know what I mean? And I am a billionaire. I just, you know, haven’t collected all my money. You know, so if I know that this is where I’m headed, then I need to be really okay with recognizing that money is definitely not what matters here. And, I mean, you make great money, we always joke about how you’re only California poor, you know.

Alex:

There’s a difference between being LA broke, just broke, broke, broke, broke. Right, and the same money I make now I can live real comfortable somewhere else in the country.

Nicole:

Just about anywhere else in the country you could live a very nice life. But yeah, but all that being said, you know, I always knew that it was unlikely but I’m curious you know, and I think a lot of you know, my friends want to know, what’s that dynamic? Like, you know, being with someone that you know, you can still provide for a woman no matter what you know, a man is a man one way or another. But how do you feel about that dynamic? Is that weird for you? What do you think for other women?

Alex:

It wasn’t, it’s not that strange. I mean…

Nicole:

When did you even notice?

Alex:

When did I notice?

Nicole:

Yeah, because like I first of all, you know me, I eat cheese. you were shocked that I shopped at target you were like you shop at you get clothes at Target. I was like, oh do I?

Alex:

Little did I know your obsession with target.

Nicole:

It’s deep. It runs deep. I picked target over you any day, but…

Alex:

I wouldn’t blame you.

Nicole:

But that said, when you first came over to my place, which ladies just let you know was not on the first date, or the second date, or the third date don’t you cough. Don’t you try to make something it’s not. You will not make me Listen, I have older babies, and I have a standard for them. Also, y’all, I’m saved now. Next. So when you came to my place you were like, because it’s a beach house.

Alex:

Yeah. It’s very nice. I mean it’s nicer than any of my friends have. I mean, it’s nice. I remember I was like, what do you do?

Nicole

I smuggle. Ya know, so, um, but then how did you feel like, because a lot of women will say to me, they’re like, Nicole, I cannot believe you found someone because so many men are intimidated.

Alex:

Oh, yeah. No, I wasn’t. I mean, I don’t really care about that. I mean, for me, I was like, that’s amazing that you’ve worked hard, so hard. And you know, and you’ve had tis success. And that’s awesome, you know.

Nicole:

That’s something you’ve always said that work ethic is really important to you.

Alex:

Work ethic has always been super important to me. And I’ve always tried to align myself with people who have that work ethic, you know. So, I mean, I was super impressed with you. And I was like, I was like, wow, like, she’s amazing. But in terms of like, the dating process, yeah, with somebody who has more money than Yeah, how we handle it, how we handle it. I mean, the thing for me is that I don’t ask you for anything, anything. Like I never asked you for, for anything or to pay for anything. I’ll often pay for meals on paper, when we go out and do stuff. It’s like, I still make my own money. And I still work really hard to make my own money and you contribute, and I contribute, and I decide how to spend my own money when, you know, it’s not that she needs me to pay for a meal or movie tickets or a date or whatever it is. But you know, if I, you know, man’s gonna be a man, sometimes.

Nicole:

I appreciate that.

Alex:

I might today, I’m gonna treat my baby.

Nicole:

Like, a large popcorn? You spoil me. Okay, he’s got money. It’s true, though.

Alex:

But put that candy back, though, because that’s too much.

Nicole:

That’s fine. I think we could share a soda just to get the water. No, he’s really good to me. And I appreciate that. And honestly, ladies, like, you know, I’m gonna go ahead and issue a statement to both of us, right, or to both sides of it, right? One, you don’t need to accept a man who’s not willing to get off their butt, get a job, work, pay bills, and you know, show up and be a provider. And understand that being a provider doesn’t just look like cutting certain checks or, you know, buying you handbags or, you know, putting you on jets or things like that, you know, I’ve dated guys like that. And, you know, it’s short lived, you know what I mean? Because they start thinking that a handbag actually replaces compassion.

But what I can tell you, there are so many women who think that love is represented by material goods, or material experiences, or things that they’re able to show to their friends or their family or what have you. And I mean, honestly, you can’t see the forest for the trees because you’re missing what actually matters, and that someone who’s present and that cares, and that loves you, and that is committed and dedicated. And there when it’s hard, and they’re when it’s good and sees the best of you and that you cannot pay for.

So all that said, I know that we have some news that we want to share. But before we do, do you have anything that you think I want to ask a couple like rapid fire questions, kind of which this is typical on a podcast, I never ever do this, but I’m totally going to do it here because they’re funny in our situation.

Alex:

Okay.

Nicole:

So I’m just gonna ask you a couple of questions, random questions and see what the answer is because I know that this is what people want to know. First of all, do I have any weird habits that you discovered once we got together?

Alex:

There are two things actually. Wait two,what. Two things. All right. One way you put on deodorant. You don’t need to put on deodorant. onto your ribs all the way down to like your spread.

Nicole:

I do go through deodorant though I started realizing I think I go through it more than others. Now I coat myself thoroughly. I’m telling you, it is like ribcage to elbow. It’s literally what it looks like. I’m just trying to make sure I don’t ever have a situation. I lock and seal that entire pit area down, okay? With pride.

Alex:

And God, I love you. And you can decide whether to keep this or not. But I mean, you are so smart, and you’re so successful. And you’re all these amazing things. I love you. But Lord, you still can’t put on pants.

Nicole:

I cannot. That is something people don’t know. And I fall.

Alex:

And when I say fall, I mean, hit the ground every single time.

Nicole:

Every time you know how people say that saying, what is it? You gotta put your pants on one leg at a time.

Alex:

She skips that step.

Nicole:

You know what it is? I will I will I will honestly say here’s what happened. I take such a long time to get ready, right? Yeah, like I mean, I can get any kind of quick-ish. But like, you know, usually I’m procrastinating or working to the last minute. So I’m rushing to get out of the door. And because I’m rushing to get out of the door. I tried to do this thing, where I just jump into my pants.

Alex:

I love this justification.

Nicole:

I’m not. I’m explaining. Is this not true? Is this not true? Like, we’re like I’m rushing to get out the door. And I’m like, and you’re like, go go go, you know, we’re late. And then I’m like, I have to run I have to jump in them. And then I jump in them. And then I trip usually because I’ve tried to like run or I’m trying to walk and put them on. And every time I forget this is not, slow down. So yes, you’re right. I struggle to put on pants.

Alex:

So I think those might be the two big things.

Nicole:

Is there any major pet peeve that you have about my behavior? Anything that I do like that super annoying?

Alex:

Pet peeve? I don’t know if it’s a pet peeve. But I guess I guess there’s because you’re such you’re such a good communicator. And you’re, and you’re so good at getting it out of people with the whole. Tell me more about that. Sometimes I don’t want to tell you more about that.

Nicole:

Oh, sometimes you don’t want to talk feels.

Alex:

I don’t want to talk feels. I want to sit there and be moody. Or something.

Nicole:

I remember when you were like I love playing games on dates. And I was like, Oh, I love games too. Like I have this great game we should play.

Alex:

Oh yeah.

Nicole:

Oh what was the game?

Alex:

It was like this card game all about like this really heavy emotional baggage.

Nicole:

It was emotional questions. And I was like, isn’t this great? I’m learning so much about you. Like tell me a little bit about your childhood. When did you feel the least loved? Go?

Alex:

I know. Wow it’s so fun.

Nicole:

I know you were like, this is terrible. Let’s never do this again. And I was like, But aren’t we growing as people?

Alex:

We’re growing, great. Okay, we’re gonna play my game now.

Nicole:

It was like Nintendo.

Alex:

Set up my switch.

Nicole:

I know. You’re like let’s play Mario Brothers and it was terrible. Okay, and then, what is your favorite thing about my face?

Alex:

Are you gonna look at me like, okay. Favorite thing I like about your face. I can’t even pick, I think all of it.

Nicole: No boo.

Alex:

Alright, I’d have to say your eyes because you look like a real life anime. They’re upside down.

Nicole:

It’s so funny because it’s not what people usually say.

Alex:

Eyes and lips.

Nicole:

Oh, this is a children. I told you guys headphone alert.

Alex:

Sorry. I meant by lips, I meant your smile.

Nicole:

Y’all a mess. Okay, and then final question before we reveal our big news. Where do you see this whole thing going?

Alex:

Wow, put me on the spot, huh?

Nicole:

I mean, hey, that’s what everyone else wants to know, by everyone else. I mean, why would I bring you on my podcast with a mic in a studio, in front of my producer and not take advantage of this opportunity?

Alex:

That’s fair. That’s fair enough. Well, I already know where this is going. I knew two months in. I knew two months in and when we had a conversation over what we wanted in our future, you know, about like family and just like all this stuff. I mean, yeah, I’m gonna marry you. 100%. That’s my intention. That’s what’s going to happen. And it’s so weird because I mean, I’ve been with people for, I was in five year relationships to your relationships and stuff like that. And I never had that inclination to want to like, really, really get married and have kids and..

Nicole:

Oh, you want babies?

Alex:

Oh, yeah, I want babies. Oh, I want babies. Heads up.

Nicole:

Oh my gosh, oh, my gosh, you are the worst.

Alex:

But, um, but yeah. That’s my intention. And I knew that, probably like two months.

Nicole:

Oh my gosh, see that. And I can also tell you ladies, like, if you’re listening on that one, which that’s sweet. I love you all those things. I already knew that he was gonna say that. But ladies, I just wanna let you know that that intentionality I think a lot of people think that men don’t come like this anymore, or that they play a lot of games or that, you know, guys are only interested in swiping right or, you know, that sort of thing. And I just want to let you know, that interested men act interested. And that’s something that my friend Demetrio always used to say is that, like know, if a guy has the intention to be with you, he will treat you like that he will act like that. He will say it and it will show up in everything he does.

Alex:

And I think that now that you know I have you and I’m with you, I am working hard all the time to keep you.

Nicole:

Which is really sweet. Because you know I’m not going anywhere. Like have you seen what he looks like?

Alex:

But that shows up whether it’s you know, waking up in the morning.

Nicole:

Yeah. See now was just saying the surprise! Surprises y’all. We live together. Yeah, it’s not even real news. Interesting now it’s like, oh, it’s obvious. Now I know, the truth is not only do we live together, but you know, I think we both feel the same way that we’re hoping to see what happens in the future. Yeah, for sure.

Alex:

And, you know, like I was saying, so now I can actually say, is, like, you know, in terms of working hard to keep you shows up in terms of just waking up in time in the morning to take Ally to school, or like picking her up on time or giving you the space, you know, to do what you need to do professionally.

Nicole:

And you’re super good about that with work.

Alex:

So helping out where I can.

Nicole:

Yeah, I appreciate it. I also think that it shows up in the way that you work for your own career. And you’re always talking about how important it is to you to be the man that you’ll be in the future, that will make like your future kids proud and

Alex:

Oh yeah, cuz I don’t want to have kids and then you know, they grow up seeing me not really like doing much or just still, you know, hustling, I want them to see the fruits of my labor by the time they’re old enough to see it and appreciate it. So I want to work hard now to kind of like set that precedent like, I want to work hard now so I can be in the future. You know, provider a provider and you know and contribute more and I’m always working hard to so I can contribute more and do more for a family and all that.

Nicole:

Oh, I love you so much.

Alex:

I love you too.

Nicole:

So everyone I’m really beyond getting my face hurts from smiling so much and it’s just I’m beside myself. So you heard the whole story of getting back out there and dating you heard how it has its highs and its lows. You heard me say and I’m not naive about it at all. Life is crazy. I don’t know what the future is gonna bring. But what I do know is right now it is so so good. And a large part of it is because of this one. So thank you for being here.

Alex:

Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure.

Nicole:

Oh, is that your podcast voice see, do you see what I’ve done? You see what I’ve done, y’all. Thanks for tuning in. And I know so many of you always say that you’re praying for me and you’re praying for the girls and that you have a covering over all of us and I just want to let you know it’s working.