Nicole:
Hey, everyone. I am so excited because today we’re having a very, very special chat. We have a friend here with us on the Nicole Walters podcast, Miss Nishelle Turner. Nishelle, thank you so much for being here today.

Nishelle:
Thanks for having me, Nicole. I appreciate the offer.

Nicole:
Oh, my gosh, it’s incredible. We have so much stuff to talk about. And y’all, you know, Nishelle Turner trust. You have seen her you have heard her. You have you have walked into rooms where she’s been in the background, and you may not have realized it now. Nishelle, she has tried and true in the game. She is the current co-host of Entertainment Tonight. And like us, she is a real woman every day with accolades and a lot of work to get where she is. So, Nishelle, can you tell us a little bit more about your role at Entertainment Tonight for anyone who hasn’t put two and two together yet?

Nishelle:
Well, the funny thing was I thought you were about to say she’s a real woman with ass, like this fine.

Nicole:
No accolades! Okay. Accolades. Okay. Assets. Okay. Absolutely. So, okay, so, um, just, you know, for people to understand a little bit about your role, I mean, people assume what coasting is, but based on the conversation we’re about to have here today, I really want to get clear on the definition of what you do every single day.

Nishelle:

So yeah, so, so being the co host, or the host of Entertainment Tonight is, you know, you see the person where when you first turn on the TV, and you see that versus a welcome to Entertainment Tonight, and, you know, this is what we’re starting with and the ins and outs of all the pieces and kind of the people that you see throughout the show, myself and Kevin Frazier. That’s what you know, the host of the show does. When I first came to Entertainment Tonight, I came from CNN, which I actually didn’t fully come from CNN because I still work at CNN, but I came from CNN and I came here to be a correspondent and I hosted the weekend edition of Entertainment Tonight so I would do like I feel pieces. I’d be more so doing like red carpet stuff and whatnot. Every day for ET when I first came in that I would host the weekend show and now I am in the studio more so every single day because I host the show I still do other you know field shoots and things like that. But like tomorrow is a crazy packed day I’ll be hosting the show and then going out interviewing George Clooney and Julia Roberts doing the podcast that I have. And then going from there and doing another interview with Chuck Lorre from the big bank. Yes, love and so it’s like one of those it’s crazy day. Yeah. We have Yeah, yes. Definitely happened. So it’s just a little more responsibility if I’m being honest. Yeah. And paycheck. Yes.

Nicole:
Nothing wrong with that. Listen, we got like a coin. You’ve seen the prices of milk these days. This economy is crazy.

Nishelle:
Okay, so first of all, I walked in to get and I didn’t really drink soda. But I walked in to get like some diet ginger ale, and it was $8.

Nicole:
It makes no sense. I went in I remember the days and I my age myself. Here were eggs were like $1 or like 89 cents. You know, for 12 I went in and I’m not kidding. They’re like, you know, the good eggs, the ones where they like sing to the chickens and ask them nicely for their eggs. Those ones were like, we’d be like $7 like 679 And I was like, how much is a whole chicken? Just give me I feel like a whole chicken that’s alive. That lays eggs cooked me more than $15 Just give me the chicken. It’s just great. These fries are good. So we are all collectively excited for our friends coins. Hooray.

Nishelle:
Hooray. I’m a proud capitalist.

Nicole:
Listen, you got to do what you gotta do. You’re working and you’re making that money. So, um, but all that said, I What I’d love to dive into is there are so many people out there who would love to do what you do. And or at least love to do what they think you do, which I get this all the time, right? People are always like, Oh, but Nicole, how can I end up on stage? How can I end up? You know, with a book deal? How can I end up with a TV show? Nicole? How do you know? Because this is my passion. And it’s like, first and foremost. I am not about limiting anyone’s possibilities. Lord knows. I don’t think any of us if we had ever said what we wanted to be when we grew up would have nailed it. Exactly. Because things have evolved so quickly. You know, and I mean, none of us could even said podcast, you know a couple years ago because it wasn’t a thing. So all that said in relation to you, right? Tell me a little bit more about what you do off camera because a lot of people think that being a host is just the shine time. It’s hair and makeup. It’s getting up there. It’s talking. If you’re lucky, a teleprompter, you look good. You leave. And they forget how much happens, meetings and calls and paperwork. So tell us a little bit more about that stuff.

Nishelle:
Right. Yeah. I mean, people do think that and I will say first and foremost that hair makeup time is my least favorite time. Listen, same same. You know, I love my glam team. But I don’t really love what they do. Because I feel like they’re I have 15 Other things that I could be doing. Yes, in the day.

Nicole:
Kim Kardashian has a body double getting, she literally has someone with her measurement. She has some with her measurement who tries on her clothes for her because she just has not tried to do it. I get it. Well, no, I will. Neither of us we don’t have it yet. I’m trying to you know, go she’s growing people on a farm in Indonesia to try on her clothes. Okay, I don’t know what she’s doing. I’m just saying. But hair and makeup is not that everyone thinks it’s great. It really isn’t.

Nishelle:
No, I don’t enjoy it. I really don’t. And listen, I’m not, you know, Pooh poohing what they do. It’s a privilege. It’s a privilege. It’s a skill, what they do, like, It’s wild. How good they are. Yes, I don’t enjoy.

Nicole:
We don’t enjoy sitting still. That’s the truth.

Nishelle:
No, I don’t. Um, but you know, when I, my day starts usually at 7am. And that’s when we have our first meeting of the day, we have a morning meeting where we go over, you know, what we’re going to do on the show that day, what we think should be in the show, we talk about what, you know, stories are happening, what things we have, what ideas we have, and that’s at 7am.

Nicole:
And your morning probably starts at like four then probably. I love that you say your day starts at seven. I’m like You mean you are at work at seven. Your first meeting is at seven. Right?

Nishelle:

Exactly, exactly. And so we do that. And you know, we’re all expected. But my day does start much earlier than that, because I get up and the first thing I do when I get up is I read the trades, I remove all the trees, I treat this this job like it’s a beat. You know, like, if you’re at CNN and you are a political reporter, or anywhere and you’re a sports reporter, or if you’re you know, if you are a hard news reporter when you get up the first thing you need to know is what the hell was going on.

Nicole:
What happened while you were sleeping.

Nishelle:
Absolutely. And so I get up and I read the trades I not only read, you know, I not only look at like, you know, internet sites or whatever, I also read the business trades I read it I read The Hollywood Reporter I read those because there’s a lot going on. So I read all of those. And then I also go over are the note that sent out from us at night like what we’re trying to accomplish overnight. And then the note that goes out first thing in the morning of you know what we’re trying to do. So when you go into that seven o’clock meeting, you are kind of armed with a lot of different things.

Nicole:
And informed. So I think that’s something a lot of people and I’m hoping for, not just the mamas out there the you know, everyday folk who are saying this to their passion. But if your teenagers are listening, and they’re like, oh, all I need is a YouTube channel. All I need is a podcast. No, this is what it looks like. There’s actually some research.

Nishelle:
There are some of those people out there who are in this business. Oh, for sure. It does give me It irritates me a little bit. I will say both Kevin and myself. Are journalists. Absolutely. With a degrees world. Yes, yeah, we both come from the news world. You know, Kevin started out. As a photographer, I started out as a one man band, where I, you know, I shot and edited and wrote and did all my stuff. You know, myself, I would get up, I was an assignment editor, I go out and report. I’d come back and anchor the news and, and write it all myself, you know, and when you first start out, and you’re in very small markets, you knew all of that. Yep. So like, that’s the world we come from. So that’s what we know. Yeah.

Nicole:
I want to just take a moment there to honor that. Because I think that this is one of the things I talk to my kids about all the time. I absolutely love that we live in an age now where you know, with the right stroke of luck and the right piece of content, your life can change. I benefited from that in many ways. But it also doesn’t mean you can’t skip steps. I’m also corporate trained, you know, and there’s a reason why I can do what I do. And I also do research and I practice and I have a coach and I work hard so I can get better every single day on stage. And it’s so interesting, because I do think that one of the challenging parts is that people feel like, they wonder I should say whenever I get clients, they wonder why they run into some of the issues they run into. And it’s because they don’t have the knowledge that is formulated in those early days from doing all of the jobs. It’s the truth.

Nishelle:
I tell people all the time you know, don’t make the mistake. I am celebrating this year 25 years in this business. Wow. You know can still crack Yeah, look, I may not look like you but I’m 47 years old. Oh wow. I didn’t come you know, I’ve been an Entertainment Tonight going on nine years, but I came here when I was, you know, I think it’s 39 years old. Oh my gosh, you know, so this isn’t, you know, I didn’t just jump into this thing. Just get something overnight business for a very long time.

Nicole:
And you didn’t start that Entertainment Tonight?

Nishelle:
Yeah, I didn’t no, I started in Evansville, Indiana.

Nicole:
Which I love to tell people because, I mean, honestly, like, you know, I’ve got a 20 year old and a 23 year old. And both of them, you know, one actually was going the accounting route, you know, but they all started with that, well, I want to have a blog, or I want to have an Instagram page. And I was like, you know, I want to let you know that that’s not starting at the bottom anymore. You know, like people think starting with zero followers, the bottoms Oh, no, honey, starting with nobody knowing you anywhere in an office where you are heading out coffee is the bottom. I mean, like, you’re missing those days, you know, or like you’re saying, learning you’re editing, because you’re having to do the editing, you know, this is, these are the steps you can’t miss. But it almost seems like people want to focus really hard on being the image, they want to be on camera, and I’ll just hire out the job. So the other thing is, well,

Nishelle:
No, it’s true. It’s true. It’s true, because so, you know, kind of getting back to the day after you have the morning meeting, and then I usually do after that get, you know, hair and makeup. And then I come back and I’m prepping for the show. So I’m writing going over all the scripts, I’m writing, I’m, you know, adding, I’m on the phone with producer saying, you know, I don’t know, but this what do you think about this has the sound where you think like so, you know, it’s not just you get up and you say stuff. And then what you know, you go and you do the show. And then you come back to your office after you do the show. And you’d have to track the show. Everything with the show. And then after that you usually have shoots and things. And so my day, you know, when I’m going I was saying to you, I’m going tomorrow to interview George Clooney and Julia Roberts. And so people like that’s amazing. But the prep time for that oh is simple. You have to go watch that movie, then you go. So that’s the two hours of prep time and then you go and you’re researching everything that’s going on with them. You’re formulating questions, you’re helping in that realm. And so your prep time for an eight minute interview is usually about five or six hours.

Nicole:
Yeah, oh, can we just pause and hold on that? That is it’s a whole church moment. Because, you know, I have one of these issues where it’s like, I’ll say it all day. And sometimes it needs to hear from it. They don’t need to hear from me, you I want to hear from Mama, you didn’t hear from it, because that’s who you want to listen to. It’s not just me, okay? It’s the fact that anything that takes 10 minutes can take you 10 hours of prep for me to do a 45 minute keynote and get paid five figures. I spend hundreds of hours of practice in the studio in order to get that good. And I just so much is missing now. And frankly, I have people who are doing this work. They’re in the season that you’re in right now where maybe they haven’t landed the gig that they’re going to be at for a while where they’re eventually going to become the co-host, but they’re saying to themselves, I feel like I’m working really hard. And everyone around me is getting there quicker. Like, am I doing the wrong?

Nishelle:
I think we all feel that way. I think I think we definitely all feel that way in one way, shape, or form. I know I felt that way. And I you know, I talked to people a lot, you know, even people here in the building with me that say, you know, I wish it was as simple as letting your work speak for yourself. In this day and age. It’s tough for that not to happen. In my case, you know, that has happened for me, but it hasn’t happened overnight. And one thing I do want to say too, I mean, I have people ask me all the time about you know, how did you get where you are? And I want to do that and what not. Well, first and foremost, I did not get into this business to do entertainment. Right? I did not want to write was not wasn’t a goal of mine. My dream was never to be it Entertainment Tonight. I got into this business because I love telling stories. And you know, I’m a journalist at my core, and I’m inquisitive. And I like asking questions. And I like getting answers. I mean, when they say that we are the gatekeepers to society and truth seekers that is very, very true. And if that is not innately you, then you’re gonna get burnt out of this business quickly. Because it’s not about the glamour, it’s not about the red carpet. It’s not about all of that. It’s getting answers to questions.

Nicole:
Yes. And that’s, that’s so valid. I mean, when I think we’ve all noticed that since 2016. Just you know, before you didn’t even I don’t want to say you didn’t know journalists unless you were like I grew up in DC. So like, I was a journalism poli sci geek. I knew who journalists were because, frankly, they had a profile in DC as well. But now the world knows who they are because they’ve you know, really elevated in that way, but it’s amazing because like you said, as gatekeepers you have to take your work seriously because it can be unforgiving. It’s like teachers, you know, here you are raising someone’s kids eight hours a day, and people are still like, oh, you know, we don’t like this or we don’t like that. I mean, you’ve got their whole baby for 8 hours. You know, so I really can appreciate, you know, and hoping that You know, you all who are listening that you’re saying to yourselves, you know, the work that I’m doing is worthy, the work that I’m doing is meaningful, because it will take you where you need to go. But you’ve got to stick with it.

Nishelle:
Yeah, because you know, they’re very long hours and short days, and you sacrifice a lot in this business, a lot more than people would think. You know, and I came into this business I, I grew up in a household with a mama who loved baseball. Baseball was the first love, right. So I grew up, you know, being a huge Cardinals fan and seeing lots of games at Busch Stadium. And so there’s this term in baseball, that’s called the five tool player, right. And that’s the player that can do anything. That’s the player that can run, hit, bat, you know, do whatever went, you know, everything. And the player who can play every position, multiple positions on the field. There’s a cardinal growing up, his name was Jose Oquendo. And most people didn’t pay much attention to him. But he was my favorite player, because I saw him play every single position on the field, even pitch one game. So he was always my favorite player. And I always thought, I’m going to pattern my career after the five tool player in baseball. So I’m going to be the person that, you know, is standing at the end of the day that has let learns everything that knows everything. So I’m the last one fired, because I also grew up seeing a mother that strong listen, you know, in a single parent household, and I said, I’m going to be the one at the end of the day, there’s still standing that when they are turning the lights off, they say, Nishelle, do you know how to turn the lights on? Right? Yes, that’s right. No. So I always I came into this scene, I was always going to work from a place of Yes. And I was just going to figure it out. So I was never going to like just shut the door to something that I didn’t know or understand or hadn’t planned for. I was going to be open. And that’s how I got to Entertainment Tonight. Because I came into this business as a hard news journalist. In my head I thought I was going to be a foreign correspondent. I wanted to be Christiane Amanpour. She was like the gold standard. And she still is still is yeah, she’s exceptional. She’s the mecca for me. But that’s what I thought.

And then I was a news anchor for 12 years. And then, you know, I got the opportunity. I was doing local morning news here in Los Angeles. And I got a phone call from the president of Fox Sports at the time, who said, Hey, come over and meet with me. I’m like, for what? Just come meet from but yes, right. Right. And so I went and he was like, you know, we I like, what do you think about starting to kind of do some, some sidelines some games for us some sideline, and I’m like, for what? For who? For what? And he was like for us for Fox NFL Sunday. And I’m like, but I don’t cover sports. And he said, Yeah, but you know how to tell stories. That’s what I want. So I thought, huh, and I thought, okay, I love football. Try it. So let me do this. Yep. But I will say two. And once again, a learning lesson. Being a football fan is not the same thing as covering the sport. It’s work. So I had, I had to work. I didn’t, I was like, Okay, I need to know the Tampa 2 defense. I need to know extra dough. Right? That’s right. I don’t know anything about this. I just like watching the game, right? So I had to do a whole other like, basically a crash course in football, because I didn’t know it.

Nicole:

Well, you didn’t know that technical way. You know, anytime you want to be good at something, we have to be willing to do the clinical technical work. And what I love calling out here that I’m hoping everyone’s hearing is, in the show, one of the things that’s amazing about you Nischelle is that you don’t see a problem and confront it and see it as a barrier. You see the problem, you’re like, Where can I solution my way out of here? That’s right.

Nischelle:
Exactly. And that’s, that’s really the only way to be if you’re going to be successful in any way, shape, or form. Yeah, just financially, or, you know, like, commercially or whatever. Like, if you’re going to be successful just a functional adult. Yes, absolutely. You have to work from that space. And so, you know, I did that. And then I did that for five years. And then I started doing college basketball and Major League Baseball and, and that was like a really interesting, life changing situation for me, because I left news. I left local news at Fox for a different reason. I was working in an environment where my spirit wasn’t settled and working with people that didn’t see me.

Nicole:
That is a conversation. That’s a whole nother conversation.

Nischelle:
But the moral to that story is you better believe you better bet on yourself all the time. And it’s not an easy thing to do to really bet on yourself.

Nicole:
So I do want to just dive on that a little bit because you know, one of the themes of my of this season, season three I’m going Nicole Walters podcast is starting over. So I kicked off the season sharing with everyone that I was going through divorce. So you know, I’m in my mid 30s I have three kids, you know, and never in a million years but I think after 12 years of marriage, I’d be starting over and I You know, but when you talk about starting over, you know, with a divorce, it’s one of the ultimate ways of betting on yourself, because you’re saying, I’m gonna take everything I’ve done before. And I’m going to bet that it’s going to be better, even though I may be comfortable here or this may be familiar or what have you. So, I mean, talking about where you were where you said, just your spirit wasn’t settled, because a lot of people look for an answer, especially when they hear about divorce. What was the reason? Why did it happen? Maybe it wasn’t, maybe my spirit wasn’t settled. Maybe that’s a thing. But when you felt that, what did it take? Where were you just in that moment, where you said, it’s not settled, I don’t know where I’m going. But I know it ain’t here.

Nischelle:
Right. And I had, my spirit wasn’t settled. But it was for concrete reasons as well. I knew all the all the pieces that I write, I knew what I need to do in it. And I’m real comfortable talking about the situation. I’ve talked about it before, and I’m very resolute on who I am. And why did you know I tell them, I actually just had a conversation with my boss at the time. Not the big boss, who I read, who is the reason why I left but the person under him and we were just talking about this. I had seen him in almost 20 Wow, years. And since I left there, actually, it’s about 12, 14, 15 years. I hadn’t seen him. But I had the opportunity when I came to LA, very young, Star Jones was leaving The View. I remember just so happened that I believe. I’m not even completely sure how it happened. But the story that I was told was that Rosie O’Donnell was in LA and she was watching local television and saw me doing local television here in Los Angeles, and said to Bill Getty at the time, we need to reach out to that girl.

Nicole:
That makes sense. I could I can see it. Like already, it all makes sense to me.

Nischelle:
So they did and I didn’t have like a tape and it was just really random. And I’m like, oh, and so Bill Getty said he was the name Bill Getty he was the executive producer of The View at the time. And he said put yourself on tape we want to see on tape. So I literally asked my photographer Tony Butina, Oh, my gosh, morning after we finished doing a story I said, can you just take me somewhere and like put me put me on tape. I need to do this. And he’s like, I was like, you can’t tell anybody. Can we just so we went to some park somewhere. And he just set up the camera. And I just talked. Sure. So we sent it to them. And they came back to me. They said we really like you. We’re narrowing this down to like five or six people that we want to try out. You know, I want to go through a bit of an interview process with us and then with Barbara, and then she’ll decide, Barbara Walters. Yes, yes, she’ll decide if she wants you to come sit down at the table, mix it up with the ladies, right. At that day in time, there was no bigger job for some in television.

Nicole:
Well, I mean, listen, I’m sitting here, like you. Because I mean, honestly, especially with the view cast at that time not knocking the current cast, but it’s evolved, you know, that cast, every single one of them had proper and thorough accolades. Like there were no influencers, there was no rotating seat, there was no sometime newbies. It was truly I mean, we’re talking Barbara Walters, no relation, you know. I mean, it’s a big deal.

Nischelle:
Especially for a woman and a woman of color. And I was I wasn’t, you know, I think I was 2829 years old. 30 years. And it was, you know, and, you know, the things she liked about me, I was single, I have a very definitive point of view about things that people may not, you know, know. And so, you know, Barbara liked me and sheets, they said, We want you to come mix it up with the ladies at the table. So I’m freaking out, like, of course, like it’s a test. Let’s see what happens, right? And I’m a reporter on a local morning show in Los Angeles. So we go my agent, and I go to my bosses and say, Hey, there’s this opportunity, just want me to come sit at the table and that boss at the time said, No.

Nicole:

I don’t believe you and I said, stop it. Stop it. No, this is baffling to me also because, one you know, I’m a big I’m a god girl, what is for you is for you can’t nobody block your blessings. So whatever it is, is gonna come your way. However, it’s also baffling because one of the thing I’ve learned, especially living in LA is it’s always good for you when people soar. A lot of people try to have an attitude that like, oh, well, I don’t want someone to get this opportunity. But no, no, no, no, no, please, if you want to become Gayle King, and be Oprah’s best friend, and I helped you, this is to my advantage.

Nischelle:
And yeah, and I worked on a show that like was all about like, you know, news and entertainment and celebrity and all those things. And I was like, I wasn’t even the host of the show. I was a reporter she’s like, so I can understand and if I was the face of the show that network, and you had a problem with that, but I’m a reporter.

Nicole:
And also this is LA. Everybody’s moving.

Nischelle:
Right. And I said to I get the business side of it, but but we’re also not in the dream crushing business. So for me that moment, I was like, Oh, I see who you are, right? This feels personal. And when we went back, because the view came back again. They were like, Barbara wants you at that table. We’re coming back again. And so we went back to them again, and they said no, again.

Nicole:
Wow. And who says no to Barbara Walters. I also feel like if Barbara says, you just do it, like, Do you know what I mean? Like, it’s just kind of, I wouldn’t even want to make Barbara upset. Do you know what I mean?

Nischelle:
Well, the view came back a third time. Oh, see? And they said, they said no. And they said we feel like they’re tampering and so…

Nicole:
Not litigation? Yes. And they don’t owe me why am I hype right now? I’m like, first and foremost, you don’t own me a second of all, what you’re not going to do is try to tell me where I’m gonna go. Like, you’re like, like, this has happened like 10 years ago. You can calm down?

Nischelle: Like 2006.

Nicole:
No, I am actively mad right now.

Nischelle:

Oh, no, I could, really believe you me. So my agent and I decided to go and sit in front of the general managers like really try to reason with, right. And so when we went into that meeting, the first thing he said to me was that this is what like I just went I had to pause because I still get mad thinking about this, because it was such, but it was also such clarity. Sure. So I really now in hindsight, I thank God for that moment, because that was my seeing myself, knowing my self worth moment and figuring out who I am. Wow. And so the first thing he said to me was, you should be grateful for what we give you.

Nicole:
Oh, please. Okay. Okay. Listen, give me? Earned.

Nischelle:
So I said, make no mistake about it. I am rooted in gratitude. But you better believe that I earned everything I have. I said that very thing to him. That’s right. And we walked out of there. Yes, that moment. I told my agent, I will not resign here. When my contract is up. I’m gone. I’m out. Absolutely. And I meant it. I left.

Nicole:
Absolutely. I’m saying I’m like, round of applause round of applause.

Nischelle:
Like, yes, because it was a year later when my contract was up. And I left.

Nicole:
Oh, knowing to show up every day knowing that they think they own you on that energy level. Listen, you better

Nischelle:
I didn’t have a plan. I didn’t have a new job. I knew I needed to walk away. And then the economy crashed in 2008.

Nicole:
Sure did. Recession number one.

Nischelle:
I didn’t find like a steady job for almost three years.

Nicole:
You listen, let’s just be clear. You are not the type to ever be broke. You might not have had a steady job. But I know you had food. No, no, you were working.

Nischelle:

Yeah, it was a tough it. Listen, this is where I say when you bet on yourself. You really have to believe in betting yourself. Right? I went from a job in local news making a couple $100,000 a year, which was very good at that. Yeah, for sure. To go into a seasonal job where I made about $25,000. And so that was like, you know, I was betting on my talent. And then we went into a recession. People weren’t hiring. Yeah, no matter how talented you were, people were not hiring. And I remember and this is a bit of my testimony. I remember going to my agent it was you know, it was like about two years and some change in and I had like gone through savings and whatnot. And I said, Listen, I am not ashamed to work in any capacity. I’m going to target next week to apply. I’ve got bills, and I’m going to pay my bills. And she said, I hear you. And she said, but I’m not giving up on you. I said, Listen, I’m just telling you, yes, I’m going to do this. And the next month, I got a call from CNN, to come by their entertainment correspondent and that’s where I got into entertainment because I had no, I didn’t have any like sights on being anything. That opportunity at the view came about. I had another opportunity after that where Oprah when she had launched the Own network right away. She was going to do a talk show and I actually got picked for that talk show to be Wow, they were gonna pay me more money than I’d ever seen in my life. Sure. And then two weeks before we started to film they decided not to do it because that’s how it goes. Well, because at that time Gail was still on her network and Gail had like her talk show slash radio show and then they had just brought Rosie back and oh, you Yeah, yeah. And so Oprah stepped in at the last minute and said, I can’t have three talk shows.

Nicole:
But that’s LA stuff. That’s what I mean. It’s just like you think you have it in hand, and then it shifts and it just says it’s not real until it’s on air. And even then, well, it’s not really renewed.

Nischelle:
You know, and I said to her, Okay, you were my boss for 2.6 seconds, but we’re gonna cross our paths someday and we have a lot of ways. But yeah, so I, you know, I went to CNN because they said, Hey, we want to come here and cover entertainment. And I, you know, I always thought, you know, for me, CNN is the gold standard of news. And because I’m a journalist, I said, Okay, well, the opportunity is to go work at CNN. So that’s what I’m gonna do. I need a job. And I need a job.

Nicole:
Listen, also that though, like, you know, what’s funny is I think that are what’s insightful about all this conversation is the fact that you’re referencing the just bullet points that are transferable humility, knowing your worth gratitude, and, frankly, you know, having faith, you know, I mean, you’re saying, Look, I wasn’t, this isn’t a hustle and a hustle, you know, but, but a strategic without works is dead. That’s right. That’s right. But it was a strategic hustle, too, because you weren’t going to hustle backwards at a place that did not respect you, you know, they didn’t let you go. You could have stayed, you could have said, this is a burden hand, what could have been there to this day. Absolutely. And said, you’re like, No, you know, this is not the place to apply my effort behind something that won’t be fruitful for me. So it’s just so inspiring, partly for

me, just because I’m in that season very much where I’m like, I thought I’d done all the things where I had done all the things, you know, and you know, towards a certain goal, but now I’m like, Well, what, what, you know, what’s next, you know, and what does that look like and saying strategic nos, and very strategic yeses, you know, and knowing that things are changing in the economy, and being aware that, at least for me, when I left my marriage, and when I started transitioning out of aspects of my business saying to myself, are you ready to fully surrender? You know, are you ready to say, if it doesn’t look the way it was gonna look? Are you willing to do the work to accept whatever is to come next? You know.

Nischelle:
Oh and I have a story about surrender.

Nicole:
Well let’s close on that. Because I think that that’s really valid, because, you know, it’s something between starting over people number one question I get about divorce is, Nicole, how did you find the courage to be on your own? How did you find the courage to say I won’t go back when your life was so you know, apparently cushy and comfortable in those things? And I always tell them, Look, I had to know that I’m good enough if I stay, and I’m good enough if I go, and that my worth is not changing, dependent on where I stand. So what does that mean about what I want my future to look like? So I had to surrender validation, what people would say about me, how it play out, the results, the money, the material goods, I’d be willing to say, I’ll have none of that. But I still have myself and I have my God and my babies. So that’s gonna be enough, it’s gonna have to be enough. And that’s where I remind myself every day saying it out loud, so I can hear it too. So that being said, please tell me your story of how surrender paid out because Lord knows, I need that fuel on my spirit.

Nischelle:
Well, yeah, no, it’s a great story. And it’s very, very true. So I had been here at Entertainment Tonight for several years. And I was the weekend host and correspondent and the main host of our show, Nancy O’Dell, yes, was leaving. And so she was leaving. And of course, then you think, who’s going to be the next host or whatever, and I thought, and, you know, believed to my core that I deserved that job, and that it should be me. And, you know, I made it known to the bosses, and it was, you know, we’re going to try people out, you know, how they say, or whatever. And so, you know, they went through bringing people in, you know, and whatnot. And of course, I, again, believing in myself and knowing who I am, you know, I put myself up against anybody. And I still say, you know, I’m, I’m the best person here for this job. But it became apparent after a long period of time that that wasn’t going to happen in a couple of years. And it was like, maybe we’re just gonna have Kevin do the show himself and whatnot. And to say, I was disappointed, an understatement. I was, I was very disappointed by it. And so, you know, I went through a period of mourning it, because I still thought, I know that I am made for this. Like, I know that and there had never been another black woman to host the show. Yeah. You know, and it’s 40 plus years of existence, but we’re in season 42 now, but at the time, it was, you

know, 40 years of the show. And I said, Listen, I know that this is for me, I know it is, but if they don’t see it, okay.

And I really had to mourn it. I had to sit with it. And I remember watching an interview that Oprah had done and she was talking about when she auditioned for the color purple, and she knew it was for her. But she didn’t get it. And so she said she remembered like, she was walking around a track and she just started crying. And she was listening to CeCe Winans, I surrender. And she really, like had that moment where she just let it go for real. She let it go. And she said, like, the next day, Steven Spielberg called, oh, my gosh, the offer for it. And so I said to myself, Nischelle, you really got to you’ve got to find a way to let this go. And so I did, I cried about it. I hurt over it. I went through all of that. And, and then I came to a point where I said, you are like, look at you. Yes, you came from a pig farm in rural Missouri and look at you. Baby, you’re overcoming. Yes, you’re doing and if they don’t see it, that is okay.

Nicole:
It doesn’t change it.

Nischelle:
And it doesn’t make them assholes for not seeing it. Right, right just makes them not them. No, yeah, just right. It just makes it them not seeing. So you got to figure out what you’re going to do here and you got to figure out what happiness looks like if it ain’t this. Yes. So, you know, I really did and I said, Okay, I’m gonna let this go. If I can’t build my castle over here, I’m gonna build it over here. Yeah, figure out some other stuff. Right? So I ended up like really just being good with it. I signed a new deal here at Entertainment Tonight. Decided I was just gonna go forward. I ended up getting another show that I was a producer on that I am a producer on here at CBS. It’s a renovation show secret celebrity renovation. So being able to to have this show greenlit and be the host of the show and produce the show. I said, alright, well, this is what I’m gonna do. And I tell you, it just freed me in a way where I just, I think even started being more of myself. Yeah. And several months later, I was standing on the street in Philadelphia with Eve shooting my renovation show, eating a Philly cheesesteak and I got a call from my agent and they said, we just got off the phone with the CBS executives. And they want to make you the host of Entertainment Tonight. When I tell you like I literally I had let that go. I was not thinking about it. I wasn’t dwelling on it. I had moved on.

Nicole:
What’s yours is yours.

Nischelle:
I was happy and good. Then they came correct with it. Yes. They didn’t skimp on it.

Nicole:
Delayed but not denied. How can I tell you? You took me to church, you took me to church right there. I literally am sitting here like trying to fight back tears because it’s so, when I tell you, I mean, especially, I think that we have some similarities and people you guys know, know me, you’ve heard me like, where it’s like, I feel like sometimes I’m like, I can work myself. I will work myself into this, I will will myself into what I deserve. But when you get to a certain age, you know, like I’m approaching 40 You know, my biblical age is 25 You know, that’s the age God wants for me and then I receive however approaching 40. And I will say that like I’m learning that sometimes the way forward is actually not resistance. It’s not pushing you know, it’s actually saying okay, surrender.

Nischelle:
Yeah, you will yourself but actually sometimes the way forward is wanting this launching yourself. Right because it is true. You know, what’s for you is for you. And my mother’s always says to me, God only has three answers. Yes, not yet, and I’ve got something better for you. And that has proven true in my life over and over and over again.

Nicole:
I don’t think there’s anything left. I mean, y’all can I just say follow her everywhere. All over social look, I’m gonna be following her in real life you’re gonna see me standing behind you at Starbucks like you got anything else for me Nischelle. Can I please just touch the hem of your Emmys?

Nischelle:
Yes to be a black woman in this business and for all of this starting to happen like it all started to happen around 46 is saying something in itself right now. It really right. I’m not supposed to be here. And so the fact that I am it says something about yums Yeah, it says something about Will it says something about work. It says a lot about faith. You know, and listen, I’ve been I’m not trying to step on a soapbox and prophesize to anybody.

Nicole:
We received that here. Get on your box!

Nischelle:
I come from praying people Yeah. No, I’ve been prayed through something, listen. And so I, you know, yeah, I don’t believe in coincidences, I believe that our steps are already ordered. And I believe that they happen how they’re supposed to happen. Absolutely. So I know 25 years in this business, I am supposed to be right here.

Nicole:
Oh, I am excited, and so glad that our paths have crossed. If for nothing else about this conversation to share and to let everyone hear you know, that the things you’re going through today will serve them tomorrow, you know, and it’s all in how you want to show up and internalize it. And I mean, just hearing that, you know, God does answer you know, and the answers are always to our benefit. Always. This is amazing. The new season starts soon of Entertainment Tonight? We get to see you more.

Nischelle:
Well. We’re in it. We’re in it. We’re in it. Yeah, we started. The new season started on September the fourteenth. So just couple of weeks. Yes, we’re about a month in right now to new season. And we’ve been having so much fun. I mean, Kevin is, you know, the best partner because he’s my friend outside of this. Yeah. So, you know, we’re family outside of this. So being together, people always like, are you guys really like that? He just told me that today. He just came back from a trip doing something. He’s like, people think we travel together. We stay together, of course.

Nicole:
Because of that, because that’s how it works. I find it I love it. But I’m excited because I get to watch it now. And everyone who’s gonna watch it, y’all. This is our cousin. We need to watch her. We need to be like, listen, our cousin Nischelle is on the TV. This is the energy we need to have right now. Because it’s a big deal.

Nischelle:
I’m almost 50. So I think I’m officially an auntie. My little cousin who’s awesome. Oh, my God, baby, my little cousin. Julian, who is nine now, said to me the other day, because he calls me TT. And even though he’s my cousin. But he said to me, I said juice, I can’t juice juice. Why you call me TT? And he said, Well, you know, I call you that because you’re more likely not because cousins aren’t old.

Nicole:
No, no, no, I can’t be it doesn’t have to be. Well listen, I mean, you are the good Sis, you are you we are peers in age. Okay? This is this demo right here. So no, we are going to be watching and celebrating you. And I think every time I turn you on, it’s gonna be so exciting to not just see your great reporting and the information and all the fun entertainment stuff, but also to see that this is a materialization of everything God has ever wanted for you. And I also know that whatever we’re watching is just the beginning. So we are very excited about that.

Nischelle:
It is, knowing now like you know, leaving sports and thinking I was leaving that but now coming back to the space doing a podcast with Shaquille O’Neal and Adams every week, I still get to dip my toe in that and they’re so crazy. Like I have a laugh fest. Those goofballs and you know then doing this Entertainment Tonight, having my other show on CBS secret celebrity renovations, still working at CNN like all of it is good. It’s that five tool player now converging into one.

Nicole:
Yes and you deserve you deserve you deserve. Thank you so much for taking this time out to inspire. Thanks for having me. Oh my gosh, to celebrate, to lift us up to share everything that I know I needed to hear today in this moment. You have no idea. It was right on time. We are cheering you on and just excited to see what comes next. Thank you so much for being here.

Nischelle:

Thank you so much Nicole.

Nicole:
Hey, friend. So I am always saying that I’m super excited to chat with you from week to week, but I’m not gonna lie, this week’s chat is literally in the place of an emotional hangover. Have you ever heard of those? It’s where you have like big emotional moments, and you share a ton about yourself or you’re really vulnerable, you’re really transparent. And just like, in the aftermath, you’re like, sheesh, like, I put it all out there. And even if I’m okay, and I survived it, I’m feeling the feels. And that’s definitely where I am because if you follow me over on Instagram, at Nicole Walters, you know, that I have been sharing and detailing this transitional phase of life for the past, gosh, I want to say like six months or so, and I’ve been talking about it, but not in specificity. You know, not about divorce, you know, for two years now. But really, at the early stages, if you kind of go all the way back on Instagram, I was really mostly talking about, you know, learning more about myself and discovering more about my worth, and finding ways to deepen my relationship with me and my girls, and, you know, just battling my health concerns, like all that stuff.

And now, I just have finally reached a place where I’m able to speak about things. Because I understand them better, you know, and hopefully, I’m able to share them in a way that’s applicable to everyone’s life. And a part of that also is that I’ve started seeing someone, ah! <laughs> I’ve been talking about what it was like to date. And I mentioned in previous chats that we’ve had that, you know, I’ve found someone to kind of stand still with for a while. And, and it’s really exciting because, oh, gosh, I’m over here I literally am teetering between, you can hear me smiling, but I’m also a little teary because I’m really happy, you know, which is one side of it. But it’s also soo different. I’m not gonna lie to y’all. If the kids are around, and this is gonna be this is everything I always say is always kid friendly. You know, there’s not gonna be anything icky that you know, if they hear it. They’re like, what’s going on? But, you know, this is kind of a girls chat. You know this one, but y’all I grabbed the ginger ale. I’m like, like, I’m so stinking in love with this guy. And it feels so weird to say out loud, because I am a whole grown adult. At my big age, what am I doing out here fallen in love? I’m grown. I am grown. I’m so so you fall in love with like, my favorite biscuit spot? You know what I mean? Like, what am I even doing, but it’s true. And I’m at a place where I feel comfortable admitting it. I have been in this partnership now for close to a year. So you know, I definitely can tell my girlfriends about it, you know, and Guy fellows who are listening, you know.

But I just want you to know some of the things that I’m, I’ve learned and being in this partnership, and we’ve talked about how to date, we’ve talked about what it’s like getting out there. We’ve talked about healing from the hurt. And you’ve heard from me and my friends and my experts about it. But I do want to let you know kind of what the other side can look like. And to be candid and transparent, I also recognized before I dive into any of this, that I could be just being giddy and I could be single next year. That could happen. I recognize that I could be absolutely wrong about all of this or approaching it the wrong way. I don’t try to ever feel like I am right or flawless or that I know all the things about everything. What I’m trying to do is help you keep trying. I just want you guys to see that I’m not quitting, that I’m getting out there and that I’m doing it scared and confused and nervous. And then I’m just hoping for the best every single day. And then I’m also finding joy in the process and it’s my hope that in sharing all of this that you’re able to see that you can do these things get out there and survive and even if you take bumps and bruises you can keep going. And in relation to dating and meeting someone new that I’m standing still with for awhile.

I really want you to know that you’re wanted. Like you are wanted as you are, friend. The imperfect you, the you that’s learning, the you that’s growing. You are wanted with your kids right now and with your weight the way it is is with your skin and with your style and with your income or lack thereof girl, with your debt, with your struggles, with your goals that you have and with your dreams and with your hopes if you are in a place right now, where you do not feel wanted, I need you to know that there is a place that exists out there for you where you are deeply wanted, as you are.

And friend as you’ve been with me, over the past few years, I’ve been riding this roller coaster of heartbreak, and loss, and recovery and redemption, I want you to know that you have shown me Jesus in my inbox. You guys have been his hands and feet. You have been sending me messages all during this time, saying, I don’t know why but God put it on my heart to pray for you and your girls. I want to let you know every single one of those messages was right on time. Because never did I think I was going to start over. I will say it here and say 10,000 times over from the mountaintops. I loved being a wife. I loved it. I mean I truly am a family person. I am a giver. I enjoy like the household, the act of being a wife, being supportive, having a partnership. I loved it. I love being a mom I love making and keeping house I like proverbs 31 that is me all day, like I’m here for I will mend. I will do all the things. I also was not perfect as a wife. I was stubborn, I was angry at times, I could be difficult. I was not communicative. When I was truly upset, I worked a lot. And I barely knew my own boundaries to affirm them when they needed to be affirmed y’all. I was not perfect. I know that. But I also know I tried my best. I really did. I did therapy, I grew. I mean, I got married at 22. Y’all think about think about who you were at 22. You know, over those 12 plus years, 14 years I was in the relationship I grew a lot. And there is still part of me, even in all the joy that I have today. Even in all the smiles and giddiness, you can hear my voice that at times wants to trade it all in for the vision of family I once had. The vision of it. People ask me all the time do you miss where you are before? Do you miss your previous marriage? I miss what I thought it was, the fantasy, not the reality. Because illusions never beat the real thing.

And I also want you to understand that so many people say but you seem so happy. You guys seem so great. Listen, you can have a happy family and an unhappy marriage. It is possible for both of those things to reside in the same place. The same way that grief and grace can reside in the same place the same way that faith and fear can reside in the same place. A marriage is not a continuous line, there are highs and there are lows. It’s when you start feeling like you reside in the valley and can’t even see the mountaintop that you know deep changes need to exist. And I want to let you know that again, because illusions never beat the real thing, I am so excited that I have that now.

I want you to know that it is possible to find something in a season that is real. And this guy that I’m with oh, he’s a hard worker. He is a hard worker. He’s kind. He’s generous and funny. He’s gentle and romantic. He holds me accountable, tenderly, telling me difficult truths, and he encourages me to grow. And those are all the things that I think bullet pointed we’re all like, yeah, yeah, yeah, Hallmark, right. But I also want you to know that there are things that the almost 40 year old self of me recognizes that I need in a partnership that I did not know when I was 22. He’s emotionally and mentally healthy. He is humble. And he comes from an incredible family.

When I tell you, I sat down on one of our first few dates and I was like so how was your childhood? You know, because childhood trauma is a factor and I do not receive it. Okay? What are your thoughts around therapy? You know what, Amy? These are real things. His family is so gracious and so kind. They are loving and compassionate people. And when I see the space that they give both of their kids to grow and independently be who they are with support. Their love is the definition of unconditional. I literally, when I see his parents, I want to give them thanks all the time for creating such an incredible man. Like, I may have the last guy on the market, who had a terrific childhood, not perfect, nobody’s perfect, but a childhood where he never questioned the love and consistency of his parents I am to be what his parents were to him all day. That’s how amazing his family is. It’s evident because he takes care with my heart. And he also creates space for me to rest. Y’all, he gives me flowers, two bouquets every week. One for the past, all the times I should have gotten them, and one from him now because I deserve them in the present. He loves me. And he also loves all three of our girls, because he knows that all three of our girls are my daughters, unwaveringly. And the girls call him the Breakfast King, right? He makes pretty decent breakfast. And if he’s listening to this, like I’m telling you, it’s a good breakfast, it’s solid, it’s definitely solid. But he’s worked hard because he wants to be the breakfast king.

And more importantly, our girls call them our stress reliever. And it’s because he always aimed to be the light in the room. He’s invested in creating a life with space for all of us, as we are. And he makes us smile. He’s chosen us as we are, presently in the darkest valleys. And he’s really been a light to create some of the brightest of days. And when I tell you when I started experiencing what I’ve come to know is love and falling in love. I finally understood for truly the first time in my life that love songs aren’t just a concept or a creative expression. That love songs and movies are a real thing. It’s based on a true experience that when you hear it, you can recognize it. And being with someone who helps me understand love songs, and a deeper interaction experience with the world creatively has transformed me. His love has literally been redemptive to my soul.

And this love has deepened my desire as a Christian to serve God well, because I finally understand what it means when God says I’m here for you and I love you entirely as you are. Because I have a manifestation of that in front of me every day. It helps me lean into the best version of myself, to help this world that we’re all in because that’s what I’m here to do. So every single day that I am working to heal from where and who I was. Because when you’re in a certain situation, you are a person that you may not recognize. And you may not realize the way that you’re showing up in certain worlds, if you have a tough job every day at work, you become someone who learns how to survive it. If you’re living in a warzone you do what you need to do to survive that situation. And the same thing applies in marriage, you may not realize that there are versions and interactions and, and ways that you’ve become and how you interact with the world that are not reflections of who you are in its entirety. Of course, you will always shine through, but the best version of you, that’s not going to happen until you’re in a space to heal from where you are and who you were. And what’s great is I get to do that and safe arms. And I’m so thankful. This love has a simplicity for me. That is freeing, because I don’t question it because it’s abundant and I don’t have to work for it. There’s an ease there. And it’s because it’s emotionally mature. We are both complete adults not seeking a partner to help make us something that we feel we lack. Neither of us lacks anything.

Nothing is missing. Our relationship is blessed with boundaries. It’s deeply respectful. This love is more than I knew to pray for. And frankly, it’s more than I even knew that I deserved. And it makes me grateful that God gives me what he wants for me and not what I think I deserve because this is so much better. Friends, this new guy, he’s been approved by the therapist. He’s been approved by the pastor. He’s met my family, and he’s met my babies. He’s met my girl squad. And a couple of weeks ago, he met my internet besties so I’m excited that all of you get to meet, for the second time because he was a podcast guest, my man, the Mr. Fella, Alex. Thank you for seeing me and now us. And I want you to know, friend, what God has done for me, he can certainly do for you.